The Key to Defeating COVID-19 Already Exists. We Need to Start Using It

[SocialCircle 570]

8 hours ago, AUFAN78 said:

I wouldn't say medical community at large. Might be a stretch IMO. I researched this a bit last night and there are many doctors claiming success with HCQ in the treatment of COVID19. Not a majority as I alluded to Ben earlier, but enough to give some pause. BTW, don't think that consensus is coming anytime soon.

Probably won’t come until after the election. 

[AUDub 11,147]

7 minutes ago, aubiefifty said:

can you or anyone tell me why they have such faith in nuts? did they google it like i did and find it ok because they believe in the ol demon sperm? i am dead serious. i mean how do they justify this while denying true facts? i just do not get it and i guess i never will.

The people that sourced her probably weren't aware she was a nut. People see MD and the automatic assumption is that the speaker probably knows what they're talking about. It's called confirmation bias and there's not a soul on this planet capable of avoiding it.

It's why truly effective studies are designed the way they are, to essentially "human proof" them.

[SocialCircle 570]

9 hours ago, TitanTiger said:

It would be illogical not to take what they are telling you and to have some hope in a certain course of treatment.  And it would be illogical to think that what they've told you doesn't warrant deeper investigation in a controlled study.

Your problem is that you don't stop there.

I have never said anything didn’t warrant deeper investigation in a control study. I’m all for it. 

[aubiefifty 16,761]

1 minute ago, AUDub said:

The people that sourced her probably weren't aware she was a nut. People see MD and the automatic assumption is that the speaker probably knows what they're talking about. It's called confirmation bias and there's not a soul on this planet capable of avoiding it.

It's why truly effective studies are designed the way they are, to essentially "human proof" them.

thanx but i have gotten past that. now i am afraid of burning in hell because i had a magic eightball as a kid and loved it. but i have enjoyed your comments dub. sometimes when people get foolish enough you have to bring the heat.

[Brad_ATX 13,654]

8 minutes ago, SocialCircle said:

There is the problem. It isn’t just one doctor. There are many. In the meantime people are unnecessarily dying. This treatment in the correct dosage is very, very safe. It can only help the vast, vast majority of people if given to them at the early stages of COVID-19. 

"Many" is ambiguous and doesn't pass the scientific method.  Consensus requires publishing tests, being able to replicate the tests over and over with the same results, and having treatments stand up to scientific scrutiny.  Otherwise doctors are just guessing with treatments and playing with fire.  It's why you won't see a vaccine for quite a while.

[TitanTiger 20,472]

Just now, SocialCircle said:

There is the problem. It isn’t just one doctor. There are many. In the meantime people are unnecessarily dying. This treatment in the correct dosage is very, very safe. It can only help the vast, vast majority of people if given to them at the early stages of COVID-19. 

Again, the plural of "anecdote" is not "data."  And saying "many" people believe a yet unproven premise doesn't make it so.  It's basically the argumentum ad populum fallacy (appeal to widespread belief, popularity), except these doctors are no where near the majority.

Until a properly constructed controlled study/trial on it is done (assuming it hasn't already), you can't make the declarations in your last sentence.  There's no scientifically sound basis for it.

[aubiefifty 16,761]

How Quack Doctors And Powerful GOP Operatives Spread Misinformation To Millions

 

Nick Robins-Early, Hayley Miller, Jesselyn Cook

12-15 minutes

(Photo: Breitbart)

A seemingly obscure Capitol Hill press conference by a fringe group of self-proclaimed medical experts quickly became on Monday the most widely seen propaganda video about the coronavirus after Breitbart News livestreamed it on Facebook. The post racked up tens of millions of views across social media in a matter of hours, far surpassing the traffic of the infamous “Plandemic” disinformation video. It grabbed the attention of President Donald Trump and his son Donald Trump Jr., who had his Twitter account partially suspended for sharing a link to the video.

The video featured a string of right-wing talking points that criticized lockdown measures, demonized public health officials, called for schools to reopen and urged Americans not to wear face masks. The speakers, who were all portrayed as doctors, often declared hydroxychloroquine a “cure” for COVID-19. (No legitimate medical organizations have recognized any “cure” for COVID-19, and multiple clinical trials have shown hydroxychloroquine is not beneficial in treating the virus.)

One of the main characters in the clip was a religious minister and pediatrician who has previously warned against having sex with demons — so at first glance, it would be easy to characterize the video as just another random conspiracy crank finding a massive audience thanks to Facebook.

But in fact, a conservative dark-money group was behind the press event that created this viral propaganda moment. The group featured in the video, “America’s Frontline Doctors,” sprang from nowhere only days ago and appears connected to groups involved in the Save Our Country Coalition, which was a driving force behind the “reopen” protests in April that lobbied for America’s rapid reopening, even as death tolls spike in hot spots across the country.

As Donald Trump’s reelection prospects dwindle amid his administration’s disastrous response to the pandemic, right-wing politicians and media figures have aggressively downplayed the threat of the virus and echoed Trump’s disproven claims about the efficacy of hydroxychloriquine, an anti-malarial drug. This week’s episode, bolstered by Republican operatives, recklessly amplified by social media giants and promoted by the president himself, is a flashing warning about their ability to disseminate dangerous propaganda quickly and widely.

The Save Our Country Coalition

Monday’s livestreamed event featuring the America’s Frontline Doctors group was organized by Tea Party Patriots, a wealthy Republican donor-backed nonprofit that, in partnership with FreedomWorks and other right-wing dark money groups, launched the Save Our Country Coalition in April to push for America’s rapid reopening. Jenny Beth Martin, TPP’s co-founder, spoke at the conference alongside the self-proclaimed frontline doctors, urging people to call their elected officials to demand access to hydroxychloroquine.

Simone Gold, the founder of America’s Frontline Doctors, has been a go-to source for Fox News on the so-called dangers of strict coronavirus measures and has spoken at several reopen rallies.

It’s not clear to what extent the Save Our Country Coalition was behind Monday’s press event; the America’s Frontline Doctors website discloses no affiliation to any other group, nor does it proclaim itself a 501(c) nonprofit.

But Tea Party Patriots is clearly involved in both efforts, and the Monday press conference was directly in line with SOC’s push to downplay the pandemic. FreedomWorks and Tea Party Patriots did not immediately respond to requests for comment.

One of the people spearheading SOC’s efforts is GOP operative and Trump economic adviser Stephen Moore, who last year withdrew from consideration for a job with the Federal Reserve and joined a group of entrepreneurs seeking to create a cryptocurrency central bank.

Moore had encouraged lockdown protests earlier this year, stating on a conservative YouTube program in mid-April that he heard from a “big donor in Wisconsin” who would pay the legal fees for anyone who gets arrested for rallying against stay-at-home orders at the State Capitol.

SOC’s honorary chairman is conservative economist Arthur Laffer, whom Trump awarded the Presidential Medal of Freedom to last year. Laffer has also mentored Larry Kudlow, Trump’s top economic adviser, reported Reuters.

The coalition’s groups have largely been funded by prominent billionaires, including oil and gas mogul Charles Koch ― who has donated to SOC group American Legislative Exchange Council (ALEC) ― and Richard Uihlein, a major donor to Tea Party Patriots. Uihlein also backed Roy Moore during his Senate run in Alabama even after he was accused of sexually assaulting underage girls.

Former ALEC staffer Jerry Taylor, a co-founder of the nonpartisan Niskanen Center, condemned SOC’s efforts to undermine leading public health officials last month.

“The political actors involved with these groups are united both in their hostility to mainstream science — which they consider a conspiratorial leftist plot to destroy free market capitalism — and their superficial understanding of economics,” Taylor told The Guardian. “Fully reopening the economy will not produce an economic recovery until the coronavirus is contained and can stay contained.”

A Strange Group Of Doctors

Many of the members of America’s Frontline Doctors have promoted fringe views that go against overwhelming medical evidence. The group includes a pro-Trump physician who has appeared on Fox News advocating against lockdowns and an evangelical Christian minister who has promoted bizarre claims about DNA from space aliens being used in medical treatment. Dr. Stella Immmanuel, a minister who operates a tiny walk-in medical clinic out of a strip mall in Texas, falsely claimed there was a “cure” for COVID-19 and suggested that people did not need to wear masks.

Immanuel is the author of several books which contain homophobic and extreme views, as well as writing that the “Harry Potter” series makes society “accept demonic activity and witchcraft as normal” and that “demonic music has penetrated the souls of our children and programmed them with an anti-Christ message.”

It is unclear how the group came together, but several have become popular in conservative circles for promoting views that align with Trump’s rhetoric on the pandemic.

Gold includes some vague details about her background in a bio on her website, which states that she “worked in Washington D.C. for the Surgeon General, as well as for the Chairman of the Labor & Human Resources Committee.”

But a spokesperson for the Department of Health and Human Services, which houses the Office of the Surgeon General, could not confirm that Gold worked in the office.

According to her LinkedIn page, Gold briefly served as a congressional fellow in 1997, in which she participated in “research and analysis of health policy issues” and wrote speeches for Sen. Jim Jeffords, the Republican chairman of the Health, Education, Labor and Pensions Committee at the time.

Gold did not immediately respond to HuffPost’s request for comment.

The Right-Wing Propaganda Machine

Far-right website Breitbart News posted the video to Facebook on Monday, triggering its viral spread across other social media sites.

A cycle of right-wing actors spreading misinformation, then playing the role of free speech martyr, was in full effect on Tuesday morning, as multiple pro-Trump media outlets and activists promoted the video’s claims and condemned its removal. Far-right One America News Network pundits, right-wing website PragerU, prominent conservative radio host Mark Levin, Trump endorsers Diamond and Silk, Media Research Center founder Brent Bozell and other conservative influencers all tweeted about the video. At least 10 Republican congressional candidates and local GOP Facebook pages also shared it, according to an analysis by First Draft, an organization that monitors misinformation.

By early Tuesday, the president and his eldest son also shared now-deleted clips on Twitter, where the video trended.

The video’s rapid growth reflected the speed at which misinformation can travel when powerful far-right media outlets and politicians amplify it, as well as the glaring inadequacies of Facebook, YouTube and Twitter to stop the spread before it reaches mass audiences.

Facebook did not respond to HuffPost’s request for comment on what actions it was taking to prevent the further spread of the video or any ramifications for the accounts of those involved in its creation and dissemination, instead providing a boilerplate statement about the removal.

“We removed the video for sharing false information about cures and treatments for COVID-19,” Andrea Vallone, a spokesperson for Facebook, told HuffPost. But as of Tuesday afternoon, large pages were still freely linking to and embedding clips on the platform.

Facebook has become a hub for medical misinformation, anti-vaccine conspiracies and extremism during the pandemic. Anti-lockdown groups connected to powerful conservative activists gained hundreds of thousands of followers and devolved into conspiracy theories, while prosecutors say followers of the anti-government Boogaloo movement discussed plans on the site before murdering law enforcement officers. In May, a coronavirus conspiracy video called “Plandemic” gained millions of views within days of its posting before mainstream media began debunking its false claims and Facebook removed the video.

Facebook’s response time to this week’s viral disinformation video was days faster than with “Plandemic,” but still failed to prevent it from being watched at least 17 million times from the Breitbart post alone ― millions more views than “Plandemic” amassed prior to its removal. Links to the video are also still available on the platform, including on the page of one of the most prominent members of the “frontline doctors” group.

Crying Censorship

The video capitalized on a “watch before it’s taken down” framing that lets viewers feel like they are getting in on a secret or are privy to exclusive information that will soon disappear, according to Diara J. Townes, an investigative researcher at First Draft. When platforms eventually take action to remove or flag content with false claims and potentially harmful medical advice, the media outlets and influencers who spread the misinformation then cry censorship and position themselves as victims.

Donald Trump Jr.’s Twitter account was partially suspended after he shared it, leading to a Trump spokesperson condemning “Big Tech” for election interference. (Twitter told HuffPost that it did not take similar enforcement action against the president’s account because, unlike his son, he “did not Tweet the video in question, he Retweeted it.”)

Breitbart published a post claiming the video had been censored, while bragging that “in terms of viral velocity” their livestream post had outperformed content from Hillary Clinton and Kim Kardashian. Gold, the founder of America’s Frontline Doctors, also lamented on Twitter that her group’s views had been “censored and silenced.”

In addition to accusing tech giants of silencing them, the video’s promoters have suggested that Democrats are also suppressing the use of hydroxychloroquine for political reasons to hurt Trump’s reelection chances.

The video contained falsehoods about hydroxychloroquine, which numerous peer-reviewed studies have shown to be ineffective in treating the virus — resulting in the FDA and National Institute of Health halting trials. The drug, which was one of many treatments tested for use against the virus during the early stages of the pandemic, has become a right-wing fixation after Trump heavily promoted it as a “game changer” and claimed to take it himself. On Tuesday afternoon, One America News founder and CEO Robert Herring tweeted that he had talked with Trump about hydroxychloroquine and provided him a list of doctors that the conspiracy-mongering outlet had interviewed.

Trump first mentioned hydroxychloroquine after two cryptocurrency investors created a widely circulated file on Google Docs touting the drug while falsely claiming to be associated with Stanford University School of Medicine and other medical institutions. Google removed the document for violating its policies, but not before its creators gained widespread media attention and appeared on Fox News host Tucker Carlson’s prime-time show to share false claims they had found a “cure” for the virus.

One of the cryptocurrency investors ― James Todaro, who also trained as an ophthalmologist ― is now a member of the “frontline doctors” group.

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This article originally appeared on HuffPost and has been updated.

[McLoofus 35,182]

21 minutes ago, aubiefifty said:

can you or anyone tell me why they have such faith in nuts? did they google it like i did and find it ok because they believe in the ol demon sperm? i am dead serious. i mean how do they justify this while denying true facts? i just do not get it and i guess i never will.

 

7 minutes ago, AUDub said:

The people that sourced her probably weren't aware she was a nut. People see MD and the automatic assumption is that the speaker probably knows what they're talking about. It's called confirmation bias and there's not a soul on this planet capable of avoiding it.

It's why truly effective studies are designed the way they are, to essentially "human proof" them.

As for why they continue to believe it, though, after a more sensible and data-backed alternative has been brought to light? It's truly perplexing.

For some it just simply isn't an option to say, "Oh, I was wrong", or even, "Oh, I didn't realize that."  They'd rather double down on crazy and/or stupid than simply acknowledge that there's another way to look at it. And I think that's a lot of what's driving the current discourse. Like confirmation bias, none of us like to be wrong. But some are simply incapable of admitting it, even to a bunch of strangers on the internet. I can only guess it's a result of low self-esteem that would drive a person to such- I mean, I can't think of any other reason that internet points would supersede intellectual honesty- but that is indeed a guess. I dunno. It's some real Hatfields and McCoys s***. They don't even know what they're on about, but they're definitely not going to be the first to stop, no matter the cost. 

[homersapien 11,366]

Americans are suffering. Trump offers them a doctor who warns of sex with demons.

 

David Von Drehle

Columnist

July 28, 2020 at 5:15 p.m. EDT

According to the Mayo Clinic, endometriosis is “an often painful disorder in which tissue similar to the tissue that normally lines the inside of [the] uterus — the endometrium — grows outside [the] uterus.”

Not so, says Stella Immanuel, a Houston pediatrician and spiritual leader of Fire Power Ministries, a pronouncedly non-orthodox church. Endometriosis and other potentially dangerous gynecological conditions are the residue of sexual intercourse with demons, Immanuel teaches. These demons, known as “spirit husbands” and “spirit wives” (you might prefer their pet names: Incubus and Succubus) once walked the Earth in physical form. After they drowned in Noah’s flood, however, they carried on only in non-corporeal form. They visit humans in sexy dreams, which aren’t dreams after all but spirit spouses making a booty call. The demons are responsible not only for diseases of the female reproductive system but also for male impotence, most financial troubles, marital discord and spiritual malaise.

This is not Immanuel’s only diversion from the medical mainstream. She also maintains that alien DNA is a component of some therapeutic drugs and that government scientists are developing a vaccine to prevent religious faith. You can find these and other teachings of hers on YouTube.

Or you can find Immanuel on President Trump’s Twitter feed, where she testifies to the power of hydroxychloroquine (yep! we’re back to that one) to cure covid-19 and assures the public that masks are not important to fighting the pandemic. More than 10 million Americans heard her advice, thanks in part to the president’s amplifying effect, before Facebook took down her page. In response, Immanuel threatened to have Jesus unplug Facebook’s servers.

I guess there is no point in expressing my strong view that the president of the United States should not, in the midst of a deadly pandemic, pass along medical advice that undermines public health officials without good reason to believe that it comes from a qualified authority. The president doesn’t care.

And I suppose it’s pointless to say to my Christian brothers and sisters in Trump’s dwindling camp that a man who raises the profile of a heretical preacher is not a friend of the faith. Many so-called evangelicals who stick with Trump gave up on evangelism — that is, winning people over through selfless acts of love and charity — long ago.

I’m not sure there is much use in patiently explaining that fighting the novel coronavirus while doing as little damage as possible to the economy is a very significant challenge, requiring the best efforts and maximal good faith of every American — starting at the top. No bridge is long enough to span the abyss between “best efforts” and “spreading dangerous bull hockey from a woman who believes in disease-spreading orgiastic dream demons.”

So, let me speak to those Republicans cowering in closets and hiding under stairs in Washington and the state capitals, muttering prayers that Trump might somehow calm the flames that threaten to consume them.

Run away. Close your eyes and duck your heads and sprint as fast as you can away from Trump. Claim amnesia. Say you’ve been hiking the Appalachian Trail. Blame your spirit spouse — whatever. A fury is building in Middle America that has nothing to do with Russia or impeachment or “Access Hollywood.” It’s rising among people who managed to look past all of that to find something they liked about the president. And now he’s repaying them with a stubby middle finger in their faces.

These folks don’t get daily covid-19 tests with results in 15 minutes. Their every contact is not screened and scanned. They live in the real world, a place Trump looks down on from his jets. They understand that covid-19 is not a joke.

They have children whose teachers are afraid to be in school with them. They have teenagers reeling from the mental health impacts of isolation and anxiety. They’ve lost their jobs, their businesses, their sense of safety. They’re worried about losing their homes.

They’ve lost the Final Four and the Olympic Games, and now it’s dawning on them that the NFL and college football may be next. They can’t go to a movie theater or enjoy a concert. In many places, they can’t schedule a surgery or visit an elderly relative.

And they see what the president thinks of them and their concerns. Here, you dupes and dopes, Trump says — here’s a video from a woman who believes in demon dream sex. Or here’s one from a washed-up game-show host who says covid-19 is an election ploy. Or how about this idea: Drink some bleach.

They’re worried and suffering, and their president might as well be saying: I don’t care if you live or die. And it’s coming through loud and clear. The political center is slow to anger. It’s also slow to forget.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/america-is-suffering-trump-offers-them-a-doctor-who-warns-of-sex-with-demons/2020/07/28/460fea3e-d0fb-11ea-8c55-61e7fa5e82ab_story.html?hpid=hp_save-opinions-float-right-4-0_opinion-card-c-right%3Ahomepage%2Fstory-ans

 

Sorry for the repetition of information Fifty posted, but hey, if Social and the miracle cure crowd can keep repeating the same information........ why not? Maybe it will be effective.   (And it's funnier.)

[SocialCircle 570]

9 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

Again, the plural of "anecdote" is not "data."  And saying "many" people believe a yet unproven premise doesn't make it so.  It's basically the argumentum ad populum fallacy (appeal to widespread belief, popularity), except these doctors are no where near the majority.

Until a properly constructed controlled study/trial on it is done (assuming it hasn't already), you can't make the declarations in your last sentence.  There's no scientifically sound basis for it.

I agree with this post. The last sentence is my opinion.   I should have said, “In my opinion.....” 

[TitanTiger 20,472]

22 minutes ago, SocialCircle said:

I have never said anything didn’t warrant deeper investigation in a control study. I’m all for it. 

You're misunderstanding. 

I'm saying that all your doctors have shows us - AT BEST - is that it MAY warrant a deeper investigation through a controlled study.  Your problem is that you think it means more than that.  It does not.

[homersapien 11,366]

10 hours ago, Grumps said:

So you don't mind us bashing people about their personal lives even though we don't know them in their personal lives. Oh wait, I knew that already. Why don't you just go ahead and delete all of the posts you don't agree with? Or ban everyone you don't agree with? You can make this forum great again!

I know for a fact that Titan doesn't arbitrarily delete posts he "doesn't agree with". 

He's simply making a judgement call in order to uphold a minimum intellectual standard for the forum - which is lax enough as it is.

As someone who is mostly a civil participate, you should appreciate that.  Otherwise, it wouldn't be worth your time to come here at all.

[TitanTiger 20,472]

14 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

As for why they continue to believe it, though, after a more sensible and data-backed alternative has been brought to light? It's truly perplexing.

Because politics.  Trump.  The belief that the media isn't trustworthy.  

 

14 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

For some it just simply isn't an option to say, "Oh, I was wrong", or even, "Oh, I didn't realize that."  They'd rather double down on crazy and/or stupid than simply acknowledge that there's another way to look at it. And I think that's a lot of what's driving the current discourse. Like confirmation bias, none of us like to be wrong. But some are simply incapable of admitting it, even to a bunch of strangers on the internet. I can only guess it's a result of low self-esteem that would drive a person to such- I mean, I can't think of any other reason that internet points would supersede intellectual honesty- but that is indeed a guess. I dunno. It's some real Hatfields and McCoys s***. They don't even know what they're on about, but they're definitely not going to be the first to stop, no matter the cost. 

The second this got tangled up in political tribalism, the ability to admit being wrong or taking a wait and see approach went out the window for a whole lot of folks.

[SocialCircle 570]

7 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

 

As for why they continue to believe it, though, after a more sensible and data-backed alternative has been brought to light? It's truly perplexing.

For some it just simply isn't an option to say, "Oh, I was wrong", or even, "Oh, I didn't realize that."  They'd rather double down on crazy and/or stupid than simply acknowledge that there's another way to look at it. And I think that's a lot of what's driving the current discourse. Like confirmation bias, none of us like to be wrong. But some are simply incapable of admitting it, even to a bunch of strangers on the internet. I can only guess it's a result of low self-esteem that would drive a person to such- I mean, I can't think of any other reason that internet points would supersede intellectual honesty- but that is indeed a guess. I dunno. It's some real Hatfields and McCoys s***. They don't even know what they're on about, but they're definitely not going to be the first to stop, no matter the cost. 

Not correct in my case at all. Long before these doctors I read about this regiment. I have two people I’ve known most of my life who are long time doctors and are on the front line treating COVID-19 patients. Independent of each other they told me they have used it effectively when used in the early stages of COVID-19. They have both actually witnessed it working for multiple people. These are long time doctors I’ve known for a long, long time with great reputations and people I trust. When both of them tell me they have witnessed it work.....I believe them. I’m not hear saying it is a cure or you shouldn’t wear a mask or anything of the sort. I am saying I believe this regiment would work for a many people when given in the early stages and in the correct dosage. BTW they also tell me numerous people on the front line treating this disease are also taking it. 

[SocialCircle 570]

4 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

You're misunderstanding. 

I'm saying that all your doctors have shows us - AT BEST - is that it MAY warrant a deeper investigation through a controlled study.  Your problem is that you think it means more than that.  It does not.

I’m not misunderstanding at all. 

[TitanTiger 20,472]

 

2 minutes ago, SocialCircle said:

I’m not misunderstanding at all. 

If you were understanding me, you wouldn't have responded as if I was saying that you didn't believe that it should be investigated further.  That wasn't part of my argument at all.  You were pushing back against something that wasn't asserted to begin with.

[SocialCircle 570]

7 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

You're misunderstanding. 

I'm saying that all your doctors have shows us - AT BEST - is that it MAY warrant a deeper investigation through a controlled study.  Your problem is that you think it means more than that.  It does not.

What is your opinion of the study that showed this regiment caused heart problems and was published and then withdrawn? 

[SocialCircle 570]

1 minute ago, TitanTiger said:

 

If you were understanding me, you wouldn't have responded as if I was saying that you didn't believe that it should be investigated further.  That wasn't part of my argument at all.  You were pushing back against a notion that wasn't offered.

You’re misunderstanding. 

[homersapien 11,366]

12 hours ago, Grumps said:

Hey medical guy, how many conditions do you know of where billions is spent to test for a condition that has no treatment and only has a 1% chance to kill you?

Well, we spent more than $28 billion a year on AIDs which infected and killed a relatively small number of people.  https://www.hiv.gov/federal-response/funding/budget

And HIV is not an airborne transmission virus with the capacity to infect literally everyone in this country, which is the reason we have spent literally $ trillions in combating the economic impact of shut downs for the purpose of reducing transmission.  Reducing transmission is the primary purpose of adequate testing.

So what's your basis for this concern about spending billions to upgrade testing designed to reduce transmission - a problem that is costing us trillions?

Are you knowledgeable in the field of epidemiological economics - the cost/benefit of various strategies to counter an airborne viral pandemic? 

Or is this just a personal concern based on your feelings?

[TitanTiger 20,472]

1 minute ago, SocialCircle said:

What is your opinion of the study that showed this regiment caused heart problems and was published and then withdrawn? 

Without knowing exactly which study we're talking about or why it was withdrawn, I'd say that generally speaking if a study is withdrawn, there was a problem with it that warranted it being withdrawn.

However, outside of any recent studies for hydroxychloroquine and COVID, we've known for many years that it can cause heart problems because it's been used not only for malaria but for chronic conditions like lupus.  It's one of the reasons it's not just an over the counter medication anyone can just grab next to the baby aspirin.  A doctor needs to evaluate a patient to see it it's likely to aggravate any known heart issues and then monitor any patient they prescribe it to in case they see any signs it's causing such problems in them.   

 

[TitanTiger 20,472]

4 minutes ago, SocialCircle said:

You’re misunderstanding. 

[McLoofus 35,182]

9 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

The belief that the media isn't trustworthy.  

Not to go too far astray, but it is mind-boggling that these people have allowed trump to convince them that the non-alt-right media is the enemy. 1A was specifically written so that a free press can be a watchdog to protect us against tyranny. He's looking the country in the eye and declaring himself a fascist, and they're eating it up. Because he's their fascist. 

[McLoofus 35,182]

*regimen

[TitanTiger 20,472]

Just now, McLoofus said:

Not to go too far astray, but it is mind-boggling that these people have allowed trump to convince them that the non-alt-right media is the enemy. 1A was specifically written so that a free press can be a watchdog to protect us against tyranny. He's looking the country in the eye and declaring himself a fascist, and they're eating it up. Because he's their fascist. 

To be fair, the media does have biases and they show through too often.  We've known it for years.  Fox News exists in the first place because of it.  Now they've become everything they claimed to hate themselves - just for the other side.  But there's a difference in understanding that various outlets have biases and taking that into account as you read them and just tossing it all aside for quackery and bull**** from YouTube and goofy bloggers and such.

[McLoofus 35,182]

8 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

To be fair, the media does have biases and they show through too often.  We've known it for years.  Fox News exists in the first place because of it.  Now they've become everything they claimed to hate themselves - just for the other side.  But there's a difference in understanding that various outlets have biases and taking that into account as you read them and just tossing it all aside for quackery and bull**** from YouTube and goofy bloggers and such.

Exactly. Healthy skepticism. Have it, and use it. But this "they are the enemy and therefore every single thing they say is an agenda-driven lie weaponized against my team" mentality is sooooooo... well, it's exactly what we're talking about.

Back to demon sperm and bleach injections...