Trump calls for delay to November election

[SaltyTiger 7,763]

7 hours ago, homersapien said:

it just calls more attention to the fact he's going to try to steal the election one way or the other.

No it does not. Calls attention to the fact that he like many of us do not agree with "mail in voting". 

[TitanTiger 20,471]

 

Quote

Trump Might Try to Postpone the Election. That’s Unconstitutional.

He should be removed unless he relents.

By Steven G. Calabresi

July 30, 2020, 4:03 p.m. ET

I have voted Republican in every presidential election since 1980, including voting for Donald Trump in 2016. I wrote op-eds and a law review article protesting what I believe was an unconstitutional investigation by Robert Mueller. I also wrote an op-ed opposing President Trump’s impeachment.

But I am frankly appalled by the president’s recent tweet seeking to postpone the November election. Until recently, I had taken as political hyperbole the Democrats’ assertion that President Trump is a fascist. But this latest tweet is fascistic and is itself grounds for the president’s immediate impeachment again by the House of Representatives and his removal from office by the Senate.

Here is what President Trump tweeted:

The nation has faced grave challenges before, just as it does today with the spread of the coronavirus. But it has never canceled or delayed a presidential election. Not in 1864, when President Abraham Lincoln was expected to lose and the South looked as if it might defeat the North. Not in 1932 in the depths of the Great Depression. Not in 1944 during World War II.

So we certainly should not even consider canceling this fall’s election because of the president’s concern about mail-in voting, which is likely to increase because of fears about Covid-19. It is up to each of the 50 states whether to allow universal mail-in voting and Article II of the Constitutionexplicitly gives the states total power over the selection of presidential electors.

Election Day was fixed by a federal lawpassed in 1845, and the Constitution itself in the 20th Amendment specifies that the newly elected Congress meet at noon on Jan. 3, 2021, and that the terms of the president and vice president end at noon on Jan. 20, 2021. If no newly elected president is available, the speaker of the House of Representatives becomes acting president.

President Trump needs to be told by every Republican in Congress that he cannot postpone the federal election. Doing so would be illegal, unconstitutional and without precedent in American history. Anyone who says otherwise should never be elected to Congress again.

Steven G. Calabresi is a co-founder of the Federalist Society and a professor at Northwestern University’s Pritzker School of Law.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/30/opinion/trump-delay-election-coronavirus.html

This is no small shift.  Evidently others did see it more seriously than I did.  

[SaturdayGT 719]

  I don't think any honest person trusts mail in voting..... I don't see much of a issue holding back until we all feel safe to vote like we always have,  that or we can at least find a way to make the voting process (whatever it may be) something everyone feels comfortable with. ....I just don't think basic mail in voting is it.

[homersapien 11,353]

34 minutes ago, SaturdayGT said:

  I don't think any honest person trusts mail in voting..... I don't see much of a issue holding back until we all feel safe to vote like we always have,  that or we can at least find a way to make the voting process (whatever it may be) something everyone feels comfortable with. ....I just don't think basic mail in voting is it.

What a  opinion. 

There are "honest" people in many states that conduct their elections by mail:

https://www.ncsl.org/research/elections-and-campaigns/all-mail-elections.aspx

[homersapien 11,353]

1 hour ago, SaltyTiger said:

No it does not. Calls attention to the fact that he like many of us do not agree with "mail in voting". 

And why do you "not agree with it", considering we are in a pandemic?

[TitanTiger 20,471]

46 minutes ago, SaturdayGT said:

  I don't think any honest person trusts mail in voting..... I don't see much of a issue holding back until we all feel safe to vote like we always have,  that or we can at least find a way to make the voting process (whatever it may be) something everyone feels comfortable with. ....I just don't think basic mail in voting is it.

Which flavor of Trump-Aid is your favorite?

[SaturdayGT 719]

6 minutes ago, homersapien said:

What a  opinion. 

There are "honest" people in many states that conduct their elections by mail:

https://www.ncsl.org/research/elections-and-campaigns/all-mail-elections.aspx

Still,....there's no secret on what certain precincts vote generally...do you have someone picking up the mail in those precincts, a postmaster sorting out the mail, an election official entering your vote....I don't know, how many hands is your vote being passed through, so long as it doesn't get..."lost in the mail"?

[homersapien 11,353]

7 minutes ago, SaturdayGT said:

Still,....there's no secret on what certain precincts vote generally...do you have someone picking up the mail in those precincts, a postmaster sorting out the mail, an election official entering your vote....I don't know, how many hands is your vote being passed through, so long as it doesn't get..."lost in the mail"?

Like I said, these aren't actual problems.  Just imagined ones. 

Oregon uses mail drop boxes so that people can personally drop their ballots in mail boxes.
There's no reason everyone can't do that.  Regardless, the idea that postal carriers are going to subvert a national election is a little  crazy (to be polite).

Hell, how do you vote now?  Are you not relying on that system to be legit??

 

[McLoofus 35,182]

He's throttling mail delivery itself.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/postal-service-backlog-sparks-worries-that-ballot-delivery-could-be-delayed-in-november/2020/07/30/cb19f1f4-d1d0-11ea-8d32-1ebf4e9d8e0d_story.html

[SaturdayGT 719]

9 minutes ago, homersapien said:

Like I said, these aren't actual problems.  Just imagined ones. 

Oregon uses mail drop boxes so that people can personally drop their ballots in mail boxes.
There's no reason everyone can't do that.  And the idea that mailmen/women are going to subvert a national election is a little  crazy (to be polite).

Hell, how do you vote now? 

Are you not relying on current system to be legit??

 

thats a really good point!! I gotta agree....I guess there's comfort in how we have been voting. I can see the fallacy in that....but, I just don't understand how anyone underestimates the greed for power. I think politicians are frigging rabid at tipping the scales in an election.....You gave us 4 years of posts suggesting the same, so I know we are on the same page....I just wonder if you think one party is capable of undermining our election process and the other is not?.....when I see an entirely new way of voting like mail in voting, given what me and you both apparently know...how do we expect any one to trust mail in voting, amid whats gearing up to be the most contested elections ever?

[SaturdayGT 719]

23 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

Which flavor of Trump-Aid is your favorite?

Orange!

[homersapien 11,353]

1 minute ago, SaturdayGT said:

thats a really good point!! I gotta agree....I guess there's comfort in how we have been voting. I can see the fallacy in that....but, I just don't understand how anyone underestimates the greed for power. I think politicians are frigging rabid at tipping the scales in an election.....You gave us 4 years of posts suggesting the same, so I know we are on the same page....I just wonder if you think one party is capable of undermining our election process and the other is not?.....when I see an entirely new way of voting like mail in voting, given what me and you both apparently know...how do we expect any one to trust mail in voting, amid whats gearing up to be the most contested elections ever?

1. The greed of power is equally irrelevant/relevant no matter how we vote.

2. The only way any given party can undermine the election process is through legislation, which is exactly what the Republicans have been and are doing.  We can worry about the Democrats doing when they start doing it.

3. There is no more reason to distrust voting my mail than by in person, as I have already demonstrated. In fact there's more reason to trust it since there is, by definition, a paper record.

 

[TitanTiger 20,471]

35 minutes ago, SaturdayGT said:

Still,....there's no secret on what certain precincts vote generally...do you have someone picking up the mail in those precincts, a postmaster sorting out the mail, an election official entering your vote....I don't know, how many hands is your vote being passed through, so long as it doesn't get..."lost in the mail"?

We've been doing absentee ballots for decades, even having them come in from military members and other Americans residing overseas. 

[TexasTiger 12,810]

4 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

We've been doing absentee ballots for decades, even having them come in from military members and other Americans residing overseas. 

Yeah, but them was from real ‘Mericans!

[SaturdayGT 719]

6 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

We've been doing absentee ballots for decades, even having them come in from military members and other Americans residing overseas. 

So how much of a jump are we looking at numberwise in mail in voting?

[TitanTiger 20,471]

Just now, SaturdayGT said:

So how much of a jump are we looking at numberwise in mail in voting?

I don't know.  But why does it matter?  The postal service has handled massive jumps in mailing every year during Christmas season - sending dozens to hundreds of Christmas cards out from households that maybe mail a handful of things the rest of the year, not to mention a huge uptick in packages.  What evidence is there that they couldn't handle an uptick in mail in ballots?

[SaturdayGT 719]

22 minutes ago, homersapien said:

1. The greed of power is equally irrelevant/relevant no matter how we vote.

2. The only way any given party can undermine the election process is through legislation, which is exactly what the Republicans have been and are doing.  We can worry about the Democrats doing when they start doing it.

3. There is no more reason to distrust voting my mail than by in person, as I have already demonstrated. In fact there's more reason to trust it since there is, by definition, a paper record.

 

1. Should be way ways more relevant than irrelevant.

2. Germany, China., democracies going back to rome....I think its human nature to undermine democracies, and us humans as politicians have had a long history of pulling the wool over the eyes of masses of people! I think history suggests we be very skeptical of those in leadership positions.

3.  I can see you have a good argument,.. its just not making me feel better about mail in voting

[SaturdayGT 719]

7 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

I don't know.  But why does it matter?  The postal service has handled massive jumps in mailing every year during Christmas season - sending dozens to hundreds of Christmas cards out from households that maybe mail a handful of things the rest of the year, not to mention a huge uptick in packages.  What evidence is there that they couldn't handle an uptick in mail in ballots?

I'm sorry if I sound like a conspiracy theorist or, stupid or whatever....I honestly  do not feel mail in voting is safe from the corruption of politics. ..I'm just not going to be convinced. 

[jj3jordan 2,039]

4 hours ago, TitanTiger said:

Where do you find this stuff?  Is it your own creative work or should we credit someone else?

National Review:  Joe Biden and Democrats are set to Abolish the Suburbs.

[TitanTiger 20,471]

31 minutes ago, SaturdayGT said:

I'm sorry if I sound like a conspiracy theorist or, stupid or whatever....I honestly  do not feel mail in voting is safe from the corruption of politics. ..I'm just not going to be convinced. 

But feelings need to be grounded in evidence if you’re going to try and resist, restrict, or block a legal method of people exercising their constitutional voting rights. 

[Brad_ATX 13,654]

26 minutes ago, jj3jordan said:

National Review:  Joe Biden and Democrats are set to Abolish the Suburbs.

So you read a heavily slanted opinion piece and took it as gospel?

[savorytiger 182]

58 minutes ago, SaturdayGT said:

I'm sorry if I sound like a conspiracy theorist or, stupid or whatever....I honestly  do not feel mail in voting is safe from the corruption of politics. ..I'm just not going to be convinced. 

There might be scaling issues *somewhere* in dealing with an large increase mail in voting. However, I sort of see it as the responsibility of any democracy to make sure that voting is safe and results can be trusted. If there's reason to be worried about our current process for handling mail in votes (and we've decided against scaling up in person voting for safety), then it's the government's job to increase the security for that process. 

[jj3jordan 2,039]

1 hour ago, Brad_ATX said:

So you read a heavily slanted opinion piece and took it as gospel?

Heavily slanted opinion pieces are virtually all that is posted here. Call it what you want; I agree with his opinion regarding Biden’s implementation of his plan. And no, it’s not gospel. You just think when you post an article it’s fact not opinion. But when a Trump supporter does it it’s just heavily slanted opinion.  I’m sure you will be all in for Joe until this shows up in your neighborhood.  Let’s revisit this when that happens.

[Brad_ATX 13,654]

3 hours ago, jj3jordan said:

Heavily slanted opinion pieces are virtually all that is posted here. Call it what you want; I agree with his opinion regarding Biden’s implementation of his plan. And no, it’s not gospel. You just think when you post an article it’s fact not opinion. But when a Trump supporter does it it’s just heavily slanted opinion.  I’m sure you will be all in for Joe until this shows up in your neighborhood.  Let’s revisit this when that happens.

Bro, go look up articles that I post.  They're typically straight news from the AP or Reuters.  If I post an opinion piece, which is incredibly rare, I make sure to call it out as opinion so that everyone knows it ahead of time before clicking the link.  And just so you're aware, the National Review is well known for a being a conservative publication.

As for what you're complaining about, the rule was put into place in 2015 during the Obama administration.  It hasn't been enforced since 2018 when the current administration suspended enforcement.  So all of the current conversation about "eliminating the rule" is simply to stoke the fires to try and scare voters who are uneducated on the topic.

Personally, the rule doesn't bother me and I live in the 'burbs.  My property value is shooting through the roof and quite frankly, most people can't even afford an apartment in this area because inventory is so low.  The rule also only applies to federal money for local development, and quite frankly, most of our area uses local taxes (especially property tax).  The rule had little impact on where I live.

[DKW 86 7,410]

6 hours ago, homersapien said:

Like I said, these aren't actual problems.  Just imagined ones. 

Oregon uses mail drop boxes so that people can personally drop their ballots in mail boxes.
There's no reason everyone can't do that.  Regardless, the idea that postal carriers are going to subvert a national election is a little  crazy (to be polite).

Hell, how do you vote now?  Are you not relying on that system to be legit??

 

Quote

 

https://www.npr.org/2020/07/01/885074932/n-j-election-fraud-case-draws-a-trump-tweet-but-suggests-safeguards-are-working

The Passaic County Board of Elections rejected 3,190 ballots, about 19% of the mail-in ballots submitted, for the May 12 election in Paterson, but it is unclear how many were connected to the fraud allegations.

In fact, there are many more common reasons for a ballot to be thrown out, such as a signature that doesn't match election records or if the ballot was received after the deadline. (So, lets say that the Postal Service doesnt empty every mailbox promptly at midnight on 11-3-20, any ballot submitted after Midnight is illegal, then, by law every ballot in those mail boxes could be legally challenged in proceedings that could go 3-6 months with appeals. Are you 100% ready to support that? Julie Sixpack, got off from work late, and drops her ballot off at 12:01AM on 11-4-20, a video of that happening might get the whole mailbox tossed out in court. Hell, a shrewd apparatchik could coordinate that happening in certain districts and get whole districts worth of votes wiped out. Can you imagine this happening in several black districts? I can easily imagine it. Yall are being extraordinarily sloppy with the way the law is written. In Paterson, they broke the law in multiple ways and did it openly and in yo face.)

Last Thursday, those rumors became criminal allegations. New Jersey Attorney General Gurbir Grewal charged Paterson City Councilman Michael Jackson, Councilman-elect Alex Mendez and two other men with voter fraud and other crimes.

The investigation started after the U.S. Postal Inspection Service tipped off state law enforcement officials to hundreds of mail-in ballots stuffed in a Paterson mailbox. Other bundled ballots were discovered in another nearby city. (By law, they all had to be immediately disqualified.)

In New Jersey, voters are expected to mail or submit their mail-in ballots themselves unless they certify a "bearer" to do it on their behalf. (There should be no way that any person in America can qualify as a "bearer.") A bearer can collect and deliver ballots for no more than three voters in an election, and a candidate in the election cannot serve as a bearer.

Jackson, the councilman, had more than three mail-in ballots that were not his and that did not identify him as the bearer, authorities said. (Law was completely and openly disregarded even by the candidates.) Mendez allegedly delivered mail-in ballots that were not his even though he was a candidate and is accused of submitting voter registration applications for people who were not eligible to vote in that election.

 

All of this points out that in fact, Mail-In ballots are exceedingly easy to commit fraud, or "get disqualified" for one of many reasons:
Did the signature match?
Who makes that judgment call?
What are the qualifying standards for a signature match?
Were those standards followed?
What about challenges and appeals?
How long do we wait to announce that Julie Sixpack got her ballot disqaulified?
Did it really arrive before Midnite 11-3-20? 
How long does she have to appeal?
On her watch she was on time. Was the Video was in error?  
Was that even Julie in the Video?
What are those standards? Are they even written yet?
When and Where do we count it as in US Postal Service hands?
Who is watching the USPS?
What qualifies as a "Legal Custodial Chain" for these ballots?
Does the Custodial Chain vary by District? Is that Legal?
Does one District's lax policies disqualify ballots?
What Ballots? How many ballots? Who decides that? 
Who gets to disqualify a ballot?
The duly elected Republican registrar?
The US Postal Service Inspectors?
Both? Neither?
Can that vary by district?
Is that Constitutional?

And ALL THE LAWYERS IN AMERICA GET RICH FIGHTING THIS IN COURT with motion after motion, injunction after injunction, delay after delay.

Oh hell no! Lets face it. In a country where dogs and the dead vote regularly...

https://www.thecalifornian.com/story/news/2019/06/07/california-man-dogs-dead-father-vote-voter-fraud-elections-pacific-grove/3672406002/

anything other than REQUESTED ABSENTEE BALLOTS are pretty much BS. Totally support REQUESTED ABSENTEE BALLOTS. Carpet bombing the US with unsecured ballots is just stupid. Folks we live in the South. For decades half the cemeteries voted. We barely have voter checks now. Every time someone does a voter role purge, there are immediate accusations of fraud. Can you imagine the fight in America with say just 300 precincts having fraud allegations? IF ANYTHING, this plays right into Trump's hands of denying the election outcome. Use your damn heads...