Auburn professor might not last ....

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On 8/1/2020 at 1:28 PM, Mike4AU said:

Brad, it is possible that you may be correct, but I would argue that what he said is not protected speech.  Courts have ruled that the FA does not give one the right to incite actions that would harm others.  Given the cuurent climate in this country where cops are being physically harmed and even killed, I would argue that professor IS inciting actions that would harm them.  

No the incitement exception is extremely narrow and well-defined, and there's no way he crossed the line into calling for imminent lawless action. I don't see how a court with any sense could say this violates either prong of Brandenburg. Precedent is on his side were this to be litigated.

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FIRE, a campus free speech advocacy group, has taken notice.

 

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FIRE's letter

https://d28htnjz2elwuj.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/03152342/FIRE-Letter-to-Auburn-University-August-3-2020.pdf

[ToraGirl 5,498]

2 hours ago, AUDub said:

FIRE's letter

https://d28htnjz2elwuj.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/03152342/FIRE-Letter-to-Auburn-University-August-3-2020.pdf

Public school educators are getting fired by what they post on Facebook--and far less inflammatory.  We have yearly PD on wisdom in handling social media where stakeholders are concerned.  One ill-thought comment brings "not a good look" (LOL...I learned that phrase here) on the entire campus.

Not weighing in as to the future of Goldberg or expressing an opinion on what "should" or "shouldn't."...but the FIRE article uses Facebook (B. p. 5) and social media as a means of private expression.  NOPE.  Not in our litigious society.  What's true for public K-12 is true for publice higher ed...if Facebook is involved.  All are public institutions, funded by tax dollars.

I won't be watching with bated breath on this one, but I find it humorous that the above is one of their arguments.  It lessens it.

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1 hour ago, ToraGirl said:

Public school educators are getting fired by what they post on Facebook--and far less inflammatory.  We have yearly PD on wisdom in handling social media where stakeholders are concerned.  One ill-thought comment brings "not a good look" (LOL...I learned that phrase) on the entire campus.

Not weighing in as to the future of Goldberg or expressing an opinion on what "should" or "shouldn't."...but the FIRE article uses Facebook (p. 5, point  and social media as a means of private expression.  NOPE.  Not in our litigious society.  What's true for public K-12 is true for publice higher ed...if Facebook is involved.  All are public institutions, funded by tax dollars.

I won't be watching with bated breath on this one, but I find it humorous that the above is one of their arguments.  It lessens it.

No the stuff he says on Facebook or Twitter is PRIVATE EXPRESSION, and very much protected by the 1A. An employer in this state can fire anyone for any reason except an illegal one, and since Auburn is technically the state, the 1st Amendment applies here, no matter what platform on which he chooses to express himself. I hope this guy realizes he's not wanted here, packs his s*** up and leaves, but he's afforded constitutional protections for a damn good reason (after all, the 1A doesn't exist to protect the soothing and sensible) here that make firing his ass over his expression illegal. This has been litigated before, and if Auburn chooses to fire him, they will lose when he inevitably sues.

You really don't know how big FIRE is and what they do, do you? They've cowed many colleges that threaten 1A expression with their advocacy. These people are very good at what they do. Their decision to step in here is actually a very big deal.

They catch a lot of hell from the left for defending conservative causes on campus,  but what folks on my side of the aisle fail to realize is that it’s conservative speech that often needs defending.

[abw0004 10,110]

The state of Alabama is an at-will state, meaning he can be fired for any reason at any time, without explanation.  Georgia is the same way.  If Auburn wants him gone, he can be fired today and no legal action can stop them unless there is a legal document in his employment papers stating otherwise.

[Brad_ATX 13,654]

33 minutes ago, abw0004 said:

The state of Alabama is an at-will state, meaning he can be fired for any reason at any time, without explanation.  Georgia is the same way.  If Auburn wants him gone, he can be fired today and no legal action can stop them unless there is a legal document in his employment papers stating otherwise.

The at-will standard doesn't normally apply to government employees.

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49 minutes ago, abw0004 said:

The state of Alabama is an at-will state, meaning he can be fired for any reason at any time, without explanation.  Georgia is the same way.  If Auburn wants him gone, he can be fired today and no legal action can stop them unless there is a legal document in his employment papers stating otherwise.

There are exceptions. An employer can fire anyone for any reason except an illegal one, and since Auburn is technically the state, the 1st Amendment applies here.

[aubaseball 2,595]

Surely there is something in the contract of AU employees that says conduct that is not in good standing with the principles and beliefs of the university can be grounds for dismissal.  No way this guy deserves to represent any university 

[Grumps 3,704]

3 hours ago, abw0004 said:

The state of Alabama is an at-will state, meaning he can be fired for any reason at any time, without explanation.  Georgia is the same way.  If Auburn wants him gone, he can be fired today and no legal action can stop them unless there is a legal document in his employment papers stating otherwise.

This. Auburn doesn't have to say why they are firing him. There are hundreds of lame reasons they can use--"Our enrollment is projected to be down this fall due to COVID-19 so we will not be requiring your services. We regret that we were not able to take advantage of your vast fund of knowledge to help educate our students."

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32 minutes ago, aubaseball said:

Surely there is something in the contract of AU employees that says conduct that is not in good standing with the principles and beliefs of the university can be grounds for dismissal.  No way this guy deserves to represent any university 

Federal law, Alabama law, hell even Auburn University policy, protects his speech. I know it sucks, but, again, we don't need free speech codified into our laws to protect the soothing and sensible.

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6 minutes ago, Grumps said:

This. Auburn doesn't have to say why they are firing him. There are hundreds of lame reasons they can use--"Our enrollment is projected to be down this fall due to COVID-19 so we will not be requiring your services. We regret that we were not able to take advantage of your vast fund of knowledge to help educate our students."

That's not how it works here.

Besides, that cat is out of the bag. Auburn is scared of losing the largesse of the donors and put out a statement about "exploring their options" to placate them.. Oops.

[TexasTiger 12,835]

3 hours ago, Brad_ATX said:

The at-will standard doesn't normally apply to government employees.

It often does if they’re administrators.

[TexasTiger 12,835]

I assume lecturers are contract positions— is that true at AU?

[SaltyTiger 7,792]

1 hour ago, TexasTiger said:

I assume lecturers are contract positions— is that true at AU?

Not sure Tex. Probably about to be unhired though.

Jesse Goldberg

Title: Lecturer

Department: English

Role: Employee

Mailing Address: Haley Center 9030 Auburn Univ, AL 36849

Phone: No Listing

Email: jag0141@auburn.edu

[AUFriction 1,179]

3 hours ago, TexasTiger said:

I assume lecturers are contract positions— is that true at AU?

Lecturers are permanent positions but they don’t come with the option for tenure. So it is very easy to get rid of a lecturer.

[AUFriction 1,179]

A take from someone who has worked in an academic setting...

This guy needs to be on a very short leash if he isn’t let go. It’s the job of faculty to present facts and develop skills. Opinions have little value in a university classroom aside from a few select subjects (e.g., English). In his courses, he’s free to talk about policing problems, but making statements close to this one would be inappropriate. If he can’t keep it off of a public social media post, I’m not convinced he can in a classroom either. For the record, I favor some police reforms, but only an extremist wackado can believe every single cop is a monster. 
 

Some other notes on stuff that’s been said in this forum... 

The university might be conservative, but faculty at Auburn lean a little left of center aside from a few schools and departments (most notably the Econ department). Most faculty would understand where he was coming from, potentially wanting to see some reforms in policing. A few might even agree with him. But I doubt anyone will really come to his defense after exactly what he said and how he said it.

As for the reference to the Princeton Review article, I’d put little stock in their ratings on anything. Their methodology rating schools is really suspect. I suggest watching the “Adam Ruins Everything” episode on college. He discusses how they decide their ratings. It’s mostly influenced by money, and is far from systematic or objective. Pairing that with what I saw at Auburn, there’s no way the student body is the most conservative in the country. I’d buy “leans right.” But most conservative? No way.

[auburn41 492]

19 hours ago, SaltyTiger said:

Jesse Goldberg

Title: Lecturer

Department: English

Role: Employee

Mailing Address: Haley Center 9030 Auburn Univ, AL 36849

Phone: No Listing

Email: jag0141@auburn.edu

So, I thought this guy shared a name with a fairly famous YouTube guitar player that sings rock-n-roll cover tunes............I was mistaken as her name is Jess Greenberg  but you're welcome anyway!!!😎

 

 

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For the life of me, I can't seem to put my finger on why she's famous. 

[auburn41 492]

2 minutes ago, AUDub said:

For the life of me, I can't seem to put my finger on why she's famous. 

Well, it's obvious to other guitar players (like me).  She can sing and play really well!! 

[Brad_ATX 13,654]

19 minutes ago, auburn41 said:

So, I thought this guy shared a name with a fairly famous YouTube guitar player that sings rock-n-roll cover tunes............I was mistaken as her name is Jess Greenberg  but you're welcome anyway!!!😎

 

 

 

[ShocksMyBrain 9,363]

39 minutes ago, AUDub said:

For the life of me, I can't seem to put my finger on why she's famous. 

There’s at least a couple reasons. 

[McLoofus 35,182]

6 minutes ago, ShocksMyBrain said:

There’s at least a couple reasons. 

Doc Watson essentially used that joke when I saw him on stage with Dolly Parton. He was blind, which made it that much funnier and maybe a little more wholesome. 

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51 minutes ago, auburn41 said:

Well, it's obvious to other guitar players (like me).  She can sing and play really well!! 

She does sound good (her cover of heart shaped box I found, I liked), but I'm not really hearing anything special vocally or guitar-wise compared to the thousands of other YouTubers out there covering songs I've heard a million times before.

[McLoofus 35,182]

1 hour ago, AUDub said:

She does sound good (her cover of heart shaped box I found, I liked), but I'm not really hearing anything special vocally or guitar-wise compared to the thousands of other YouTubers out there covering songs I've heard a million times before.

If one went strictly by viral YouTube artists covering songs in their bedrooms, one could be forgiven for concluding that being an attractive young female significantly increases your ability to play an instrument.