Photo from the first day of school in Paulding County, GA. What are your thoughts?

[aubiefifty 16,761]

i mean what could go wrong? kids will be kids..............

[SocialCircle 570]

1 hour ago, aubiefifty said:

i mean what could go wrong? kids will be kids..............

My first thought is I hope no staff member is in this picture because they absolutely shouldn't be.  However. it appears to be all students in this picture.  So if anyone in this pictures catches the flu they are at more risk of dying than if they catch Covid-19.  Also, they are more risk of dying on their ride home than they are with Covid-19. I also hope anyone who isn't feeling well in the future stays home until they are no longer running a fever.  

[savorytiger 182]

https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/03/us/gwinnett-schools-covid-employees/index.html

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/georgia-second-grader-tests-positive-for-coronavirus-after-attending-the-first-day-of-school/ar-BB17AkNA

This does not seem like a good start.

[wdefromtx 3,159]

I see 4 masks, if anything at least try to enforce some type of masks in school. They aren’t even trying!! Ugh. 

[SocialCircle 570]

10 minutes ago, wdefromtx said:

I see 4 masks, if anything at least try to enforce some type of masks in school. They aren’t even trying!! Ugh. 

We strongly encourage it at our schools, but it is not mandated.  I agree with you in that my hope is we have a majority wearing them in crowded hallways at least when we start back to school on Monday. 

[Brad_ATX 13,654]

1 minute ago, SocialCircle said:

We strongly encourage it at our schools, but it is not mandated.  I agree with you in that my hope is we have a majority wearing them in crowded hallways at least when we start back to school on Monday. 

Have you ever met kids, especially teenagers?  They aren't doing a thing unless they have to.  The "invincibility" factor is real with them.

Hate to say it, but it's adult negligence not to mandate them to wear masks while on school property.

[SocialCircle 570]

43 minutes ago, Brad_ATX said:

Have you ever met kids, especially teenagers?  They aren't doing a thing unless they have to.  The "invincibility" factor is real with them.

Hate to say it, but it's adult negligence not to mandate them to wear masks while on school property.

My youngest daughter is going into the 11th grade.  I know plenty of them!!!!  You are wrong as it relates to wearing a mask per the guidance we have received and are continuing to receive on a daily basis from the Georgia Dept. of Health.  

[wdefromtx 3,159]

Give em face shields. Lol 

[Brad_ATX 13,654]

21 minutes ago, SocialCircle said:

My youngest daughter is going into the 11th grade.  I know plenty of them!!!!  You are wrong as it relates to wearing a mask per the guidance we have received and are continuing to receive on a daily basis from the Georgia Dept. of Health.  

I'm not saying you aren't following the Georgia guidance.  I'm saying Georgia is being negligent as a whole.

[SocialCircle 570]

40 minutes ago, Brad_ATX said:

I'm not saying you aren't following the Georgia guidance.  I'm saying Georgia is being negligent as a whole.

Our law firm doesn’t agree with you on this one, but you are welcome to your opinion. So you are 0-2 vs. experts in their respective fields. 
 

Here we aren’t going with random opinions. We are going on input from many medical experts as well as many legal experts. The information and data these in field experts provide will continue to drive our decisions as it relates to school. 

[Brad_ATX 13,654]

18 minutes ago, SocialCircle said:

Our law firm doesn’t agree with you on this one, but you are welcome to your opinion. So you are 0-2 vs. experts in their respective fields. 
 

Here we aren’t going with random opinions. We are going on input from many medical experts as well as many legal experts. The information and data these in field experts provide will continue to drive our decisions as it relates to school. 

Oh I'm sure legally you have plenty of air cover.  But let's be real here.  There's absolutely no way you are either able to do or apparently have a willingness to do the following, which need to be done to slow the spread of this virus:

1) Enforce social distancing

2) Mandate mask wearing (many states are doing this in public now)

3) Effective contact tracing

We're already seeing reports coming out of Georgia with kids and teachers contracting Covid with school just starting back this week.  Last week, your state had it's all time high in number of people hospitalised with COVID-19.

But yeah, let's send the kids back without mandating masks.  Certainly that won't lead to anything harmful for the students.

Mandating uniforms at certain schools = totally OK

Mandating masks to protect kids from disease = personal choice

Georgia logic at its finest.

[SocialCircle 570]

17 minutes ago, Brad_ATX said:

Oh I'm sure legally you have plenty of air cover.  But let's be real here.  There's absolutely no way you are either able to do or apparently have a willingness to do the following, which need to be done to slow the spread of this virus:

1) Enforce social distancing

2) Mandate mask wearing (many states are doing this in public now)

3) Effective contact tracing

We're already seeing reports coming out of Georgia with kids and teachers contracting Covid with school just starting back this week.  Last week, your state had it's all time high in number of people hospitalised with COVID-19.

But yeah, let's send the kids back without mandating masks.  Certainly that won't lead to anything harmful for the students.

Mandating uniforms at certain schools = totally OK

Mandating masks to protect kids from disease = personal choice

Georgia logic at its finest.

We don't mandate uniforms.  Since high school age children and under have more risk of dying by riding in a vehicle or via catching the flu than they do by catching this virus, we have been told to social distance where possible for our students and to encourage masks, but not mandate them as masks actually cause more risk for some children for catching this virus and can potentially be worse for some students than catching this virus. We are able to contact trace well here, but we have a small system of 1,800 total students from pre-K thru high school of which about 1,400 have decided to come to our facilities for their schooling.  The other about 400 have decided to get their schooling virtually for the first 9 weeks or semester. 

[Brad_ATX 13,654]

7 minutes ago, SocialCircle said:

We don't mandate uniforms.  Since high school age children and under have more risk of dying by riding in a vehicle or via catching the flu than they do by catching this virus, we have been told to social distance where possible for our students and to encourage masks, but not mandate them as masks actually cause more risk for some children for catching this virus and can potentially be worse for some students than catching this virus. We are able to contact trace well here, but we have a small system of 1,800 total students from pre-K thru high school of which about 1,400 have decided to come to our facilities for their schooling.  The other about 400 have decided to get their schooling virtually for the first 9 weeks or semester. 

This fallback of deaths is the worst argument people have.  It's about hospitalization and the amount of stress being put on the health care system.  It's always been about that and why front line health care workers have been screaming at the public for months.  Over-stressing the hospital system means less availability to take care of things like people getting in car accidents.  We're also finding out that this virus can have some severe long term effects on some. 

The flu can largely be treated as we have a vaccine.  We know how to deal with it.  We don't have an effective treatment for this virus yet, which is why people are reverting to hospital treatments.

[SocialCircle 570]

1 hour ago, Brad_ATX said:

This fallback of deaths is the worst argument people have.  It's about hospitalization and the amount of stress being put on the health care system.  It's always been about that and why front line health care workers have been screaming at the public for months.  Over-stressing the hospital system means less availability to take care of things like people getting in car accidents.  We're also finding out that this virus can have some severe long term effects on some. 

The flu can largely be treated as we have a vaccine.  We know how to deal with it.  We don't have an effective treatment for this virus yet, which is why people are reverting to hospital treatments.

Very few high school age and younger get hospitalized with Covid-19.  In fact, I know nobody in our community in this age group who has been hospitalized with Covid-19.  Also, the median age for deaths from Covid-19 here is 83.  I agree with you on the hospitalizations though as that would be the primary reason to close things down some. However, the hospitals in my area of Georgia aren't over-stressed. 

You really make my point even more as it relates to the flu vaccine.  Despite the fact we do have a vaccine......still more high school age and younger in the country have died with the flu than with Covid-19 since Feb. 1st of this year.  

[AUFAN78 3,894]

11 hours ago, aubiefifty said:

i mean what could go wrong? kids will be kids..............

They should be wearing masks.

[savorytiger 182]

3 hours ago, SocialCircle said:

Very few high school age and younger get hospitalized with Covid-19.  In fact, I know nobody in our community in this age group who has been hospitalized with Covid-19.  Also, the median age for deaths from Covid-19 here is 83.  I agree with you on the hospitalizations though as that would be the primary reason to close things down some. However, the hospitals in my area of Georgia aren't over-stressed. 

You really make my point even more as it relates to the flu vaccine.  Despite the fact we do have a vaccine......still more high school age and younger in the country have died with the flu than with Covid-19 since Feb. 1st of this year.  

How many students do you guys think will wear a mask? How many students do you guys expect will get sick? How many teachers and other personel? How are you guys going to apply testing to find out?

Basically, what metrics will you guys go by to find out whether or not the plan is working?

[SocialCircle 570]

1 hour ago, savorytiger said:

How many students do you guys think will wear a mask? How many students do you guys expect will get sick? How many teachers and other personel? How are you guys going to apply testing to find out?

Basically, what metrics will you guys go by to find out whether or not the plan is working?

We expect most students will wear a mask here at times when social distancing isn't possible.  We expect 100% of staff will wear a mask or face shield. We have no predictions as it relates to illness.  We will take temperatures everyday in first period.  If anyone is 100.3 or higher they get isolated and someone from their contact list is called to come pick them up. If anyone tests positive they are out for a minimum of 10 days as is anyone who came in contact with them for 15 minutes or longer at a distance of less than 6 feet.  We are keeping teachers more than 6 feet away from all students at all times where possible. You can return to school after the 10 days if you aren't running a fever and aren't having symptoms. We have assigned seating and all meals are eaten in the classrooms.  We have no high risk person in any of our buildings. If we aren't able to remain open for in school education we will immediately go to all virtual learning.  We have already issued chrome books to everyone to take home and everyone has internet access or plans for hotspots near everyone in our school system should that became necessary. Over 75% are coming to school and the other 22% or so have elected virtual education for the first 9 weeks or semester. We also have handed out book bags complete with school supplies so there is no need to share items like pencils or crayons for the younger ones. No lockers will be used and you must bring your own water bottle. 

[AUFAN78 3,894]

10 minutes ago, SocialCircle said:

We expect most students will wear a mask here at times when social distancing isn't possible.  We expect 100% of staff will wear a mask or face shield. We have no predictions as it relates to illness.  We will take temperatures everyday in first period.  If anyone is 100.3 or higher they get isolated and someone from their contact list is called to come pick them up. If anyone tests positive they are out for a minimum of 10 days as is anyone who came in contact with them for 15 minutes or longer at a distance of less than 6 feet.  We are keeping teachers more than 6 feet away from all students at all times where possible. You can return to school after the 10 days if you aren't running a fever and aren't having symptoms. We have assigned seating and all meals are eaten in the classrooms.  We have no high risk person in any of our buildings. If we aren't able to remain open for in school education we will immediately go to all virtual learning.  We have already issued chrome books to everyone to take home and everyone has internet access or plans for hotspots near everyone in our school system should that became necessary. Over 75% are coming to school and the other 22% or so has elected virtual education for the first 9 weeks or semester. We also have handed out book bags complete with school supplies so there is no need to share items like pencils or crayons for the younger ones. No lockers will be used and you must bring your own water bottle. 

Sounds like a decent plan. Very comparable to what some Fortune 500 companies are doing. 

[savorytiger 182]

3 hours ago, SocialCircle said:

We expect most students will wear a mask here at times when social distancing isn't possible.  We expect 100% of staff will wear a mask or face shield. We have no predictions as it relates to illness.  We will take temperatures everyday in first period.  If anyone is 100.3 or higher they get isolated and someone from their contact list is called to come pick them up. If anyone tests positive they are out for a minimum of 10 days as is anyone who came in contact with them for 15 minutes or longer at a distance of less than 6 feet.  We are keeping teachers more than 6 feet away from all students at all times where possible. You can return to school after the 10 days if you aren't running a fever and aren't having symptoms. We have assigned seating and all meals are eaten in the classrooms.  We have no high risk person in any of our buildings. If we aren't able to remain open for in school education we will immediately go to all virtual learning.  We have already issued chrome books to everyone to take home and everyone has internet access or plans for hotspots near everyone in our school system should that became necessary. Over 75% are coming to school and the other 22% or so have elected virtual education for the first 9 weeks or semester. We also have handed out book bags complete with school supplies so there is no need to share items like pencils or crayons for the younger ones. No lockers will be used and you must bring your own water bottle. 

Appreciate the detailed response. Two notes:

Having no predictions on illness feels like a red flag. I understand that it may be difficult, but not having any expectations means you might be slow to take action if the conditions aren't as you predicted. You say you expect most students to wear masks. What happens if only 10% do it like in the above photo? What about 25%? 50%? 75%? What do you need to actually keep the place safe?

Second (maybe you are already aware of this), but on temperature testing: 

https://www.fda.gov/medical-devices/coronavirus-covid-19-and-medical-devices/non-contact-temperature-assessment-devices-during-covid-19-pandemic

Quote

Be aware that, even when the devices are used properly, temperature assessment may have limited impact on reducing the spread of COVID-19 infections. Some studies suggest that temperature measurements alone may miss more than half of infected people.

I understand lab testing may be too costly, but then bookbags, school supplies, and chromebooks??  You guys sounds like a pretty well off district. A podcast I've been listening to has talked about batch testing to find out if an outbreak is occurring (though if outbreaks are too frequent you won't save any money doing it that way), and a push for very cheap (~$1 per test), faster testing that may miss some infections but is extremely accurate at finding if a patient is infectious.

[SocialCircle 570]

5 hours ago, savorytiger said:

Appreciate the detailed response. Two notes:

Having no predictions on illness feels like a red flag. I understand that it may be difficult, but not having any expectations means you might be slow to take action if the conditions aren't as you predicted. You say you expect most students to wear masks. What happens if only 10% do it like in the above photo? What about 25%? 50%? 75%? What do you need to actually keep the place safe?

Second (maybe you are already aware of this), but on temperature testing: 

https://www.fda.gov/medical-devices/coronavirus-covid-19-and-medical-devices/non-contact-temperature-assessment-devices-during-covid-19-pandemic

I understand lab testing may be too costly, but then bookbags, school supplies, and chromebooks??  You guys sounds like a pretty well off district. A podcast I've been listening to has talked about batch testing to find out if an outbreak is occurring (though if outbreaks are too frequent you won't save any money doing it that way), and a push for very cheap (~$1 per test), faster testing that may miss some infections but is extremely accurate at finding if a patient is infectious.

What happens if fewer than expected wear masks is we continue to encourage, but not mandate mask wearing. Our JROTC leader is a retired Colonel from the Army. His background is planning. He facilitated our plan and we had 7 sub-committees studying different areas. These committees consisted of stakeholders from every walk....administrators, teachers, parents, students, business people, etc...The best plan is the one that best fits what the stakeholders (tax payers) in your community desire. We have contingencies for anything you can imagine built in our plan. I sincerely believe we have the best plan in the nation. 
 

We have an annual “Back to School Bash” that my wife and I and others helped get started about 5 years ago. It is a community event. We get individuals and churches and businesses to donate and we order all of the book bags and school supplies for each grade level.  We usually have free haircuts and physicals and blood pressure readings and hot dogs and other things. This year because of the virus we only had people drive through a designated area and hold up a sign as to the grade level of their students and we handed them the supplies and book bag. We decided some years ago to budget so we could be one to one with technology. Also, Facebook just gave us a nice grant to be used for technology. We aren’t a well off community, but we are tight knit and support our schools. About 50% of our students are on free or reduced lunch. 

[TitanTiger 20,472]

22 hours ago, SocialCircle said:

My first thought is I hope no staff member is in this picture because they absolutely shouldn't be.  However. it appears to be all students in this picture.  So if anyone in this pictures catches the flu they are at more risk of dying than if they catch Covid-19.  Also, they are more risk of dying on their ride home than they are with Covid-19. I also hope anyone who isn't feeling well in the future stays home until they are no longer running a fever.  

 

13 hours ago, SocialCircle said:

Very few high school age and younger get hospitalized with Covid-19.  In fact, I know nobody in our community in this age group who has been hospitalized with Covid-19.  Also, the median age for deaths from Covid-19 here is 83.  I agree with you on the hospitalizations though as that would be the primary reason to close things down some. However, the hospitals in my area of Georgia aren't over-stressed. 

You really make my point even more as it relates to the flu vaccine.  Despite the fact we do have a vaccine......still more high school age and younger in the country have died with the flu than with Covid-19 since Feb. 1st of this year.  

 

First you're making a comparison that you really aren't able to accurately make at this point.  Flu deaths are estimated in ways that COVID deaths simply aren't.  If we counted COVID deaths using the same methodology that we typically use to estimate flu deaths, the COVID numbers would be much higher than we are reporting now. 

Second, even if we accepted the numbers as being comparable, I question where you're getting these figures.  The CDC has a weekly influenza report that shows deaths, with a section dedicated to pediatric deaths (under 18 years of age):

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/weekly/index.htm

https://gis.cdc.gov/GRASP/Fluview/PedFluDeath.html

They are showing 186 pediatric deaths due to the seasonal flu since March of 2019.  If you look at that chart distribution, about 125 of those are since Feb 1st.

Now the data we have on COVID deaths doesn't show 18 years old as a cutoff, but the numbers through this week show 395 deaths in people 24 years of age and younger.  The 15-24 age group makes up 225 of those deaths:

https://data.cdc.gov/NCHS/Provisional-COVID-19-Death-Counts-by-Sex-Age-and-S/9bhg-hcku

Now while we have a flu vaccine, roughly half the population doesn't bother to get it.  But it's available.  And if more people got it, particularly those who feel most vulnerable (such as the teachers and staff who have to interact with these kids), those numbers would go down.  But we don't even have that option right now for COVID-19.

All this to say, you can't make decisions on the basis of data like this, even if all we're talking about is the kids themselves - which is not all that's at issue here.  The kids, especially the older ones, might survive it but they can be vectors for the disease to continue spreading.  

 

[aubiefifty 16,761]

13 hours ago, AUFAN78 said:

They should be wearing masks.

holy moly 78 agrees with me on something! have a bong hit.............sterilized of course. grins

[aubiefifty 16,761]

1 hour ago, TitanTiger said:

 

 

First you're making a comparison that you really aren't able to accurately make at this point.  Flu deaths are estimated in ways that COVID deaths simply aren't.  If we counted COVID deaths using the same methodology that we typically use to estimate flu deaths, the COVID numbers would be much higher than we are reporting now. 

Second, even if we accepted the numbers as being comparable, I question where you're getting these figures.  The CDC has a weekly influenza report that shows deaths, with a section dedicated to pediatric deaths (under 18 years of age):

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/weekly/index.htm

https://gis.cdc.gov/GRASP/Fluview/PedFluDeath.html

They are showing 186 pediatric deaths due to the seasonal flu since March of 2019.  If you look at that chart distribution, about 125 of those are since Feb 1st.

Now the data we have on COVID deaths doesn't show 18 years old as a cutoff, but the numbers through this week show 395 deaths in people 24 years of age and younger.  The 15-24 age group makes up 225 of those deaths:

https://data.cdc.gov/NCHS/Provisional-COVID-19-Death-Counts-by-Sex-Age-and-S/9bhg-hcku

Now while we have a flu vaccine, roughly half the population doesn't bother to get it.  But it's available.  And if more people got it, particularly those who feel most vulnerable (such as the teachers and staff who have to interact with these kids), those numbers would go down.  But we don't even have that option right now for COVID-19.

All this to say, you can't make decisions on the basis of data like this, even if all we're talking about is the kids themselves - which is not all that's at issue here.  The kids, especially the older ones, might survive it but they can be vectors for the disease to continue spreading.  

 

they are also saying now that covid seems to be causing heart damage and other ailments and they have just started looking into that as well. i might be wrong but i agree with some of the random doctors and nurses seem to believe when schools are opened back up they will be closed again by late september or october. i tend to believe them. also what about all these kids that often only get a decent meal at school? to me that tells me their immune system might be in poor shape as well. i worry for everyone. and by the way cj in some of our discussions i believer i forgot to mention you deserve props for helping kids get e meal etc. we do not agree on a lot but i think that is outstanding!

[SocialCircle 570]

59 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

 

 

First you're making a comparison that you really aren't able to accurately make at this point.  Flu deaths are estimated in ways that COVID deaths simply aren't.  If we counted COVID deaths using the same methodology that we typically use to estimate flu deaths, the COVID numbers would be much higher than we are reporting now. 

Second, even if we accepted the numbers as being comparable, I question where you're getting these figures.  The CDC has a weekly influenza report that shows deaths, with a section dedicated to pediatric deaths (under 18 years of age):

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/weekly/index.htm

https://gis.cdc.gov/GRASP/Fluview/PedFluDeath.html

They are showing 186 pediatric deaths due to the seasonal flu since March of 2019.  If you look at that chart distribution, about 125 of those are since Feb 1st.

Now the data we have on COVID deaths doesn't show 18 years old as a cutoff, but the numbers through this week show 395 deaths in people 24 years of age and younger.  The 15-24 age group makes up 225 of those deaths:

https://data.cdc.gov/NCHS/Provisional-COVID-19-Death-Counts-by-Sex-Age-and-S/9bhg-hcku

Now while we have a flu vaccine, roughly half the population doesn't bother to get it.  But it's available.  And if more people got it, particularly those who feel most vulnerable (such as the teachers and staff who have to interact with these kids), those numbers would go down.  But we don't even have that option right now for COVID-19.

All this to say, you can't make decisions on the basis of data like this, even if all we're talking about is the kids themselves - which is not all that's at issue here.  The kids, especially the older ones, might survive it but they can be vectors for the disease to continue spreading.  

 

The medical experts advising our school system have a break down of the number of deaths by age that is more detailed than what you can see on the CDC site. There have been fewer deaths of people age 18 and under with COVID-19 than with the flu since Feb. 1st until now. Actually people in this age group have virtually no risk of dying with either. 

We have no high risk people in our school building and this includes staff. Those that have high risk situations at home can elect to do their schooling online. 
 

I also think many people fail to understand the bleak situation at home for many students. It is really unbelievable until you witness it with your own eyes. Families here have overwhelmingly elected to return their students to the school with over 75% doing so. The highest I’ve seen around here is in Oconee County where 86% are sending their children back to school. 

 

[SocialCircle 570]

10 minutes ago, aubiefifty said:

they are also saying now that covid seems to be causing heart damage and other ailments and they have just started looking into that as well. i might be wrong but i agree with some of the random doctors and nurses seem to believe when schools are opened back up they will be closed again by late september or october. i tend to believe them. also what about all these kids that often only get a decent meal at school? to me that tells me their immune system might be in poor shape as well. i worry for everyone. and by the way cj in some of our discussions i believer i forgot to mention you deserve props for helping kids get e meal etc. we do not agree on a lot but i think that is outstanding!

There is no doubt we might have to go to 100% online schooling. We are absolutely prepared for this scenario. Also, when over 75% in your community want schools to open and believe it is in the best interests of their children you owe it to them to do everything in your power to meet the needs of your community.  We take this very seriously and have spent countless hours working on the best plan possible given the circumstances.