Civil Rights and Alabama

[lca408 366]

So I just saw the Gameday special about the 1970 UAT vs USC game and how it was such a big deal with USC having black players at Legion Field at the time. That part was interesting and cool. The part that bothered me was this insane theory floated out there that somehow, Bear Bryant scheduled the game so that USC would win and would help change the minds of Alabama fans about black players? So he could recruit black players without criticism? Like it was some high level double agent stuff?

As I recall, Bryant was already in some hot water by this time with the results from 1969. Why would he purposely intend to lose a game to start the 1970 season? As if Bahr Bryant cared about anything other than winning games. This is the same man who later vetoed grant money to UAB because there had been talk of UAB wanting to start a football program and he didn’t want that pulling resources from Tuscaloosa. 
 

This little program failed to note that most of the conference already had black players, Bryant himself had a black player on the roster who couldn’t play yet because he was a freshman, and then there’s that guy named James Owens who was the first black player to play in an Iron Bowl that very year, in an Auburn uniform.

What a ridiculous example of revisionist history. I mean the game itself and it’s implications were clearly massive and that’s certainly worth a segment. But this further deification of the old drunk with a checkered hat is tired and stupid.

[oracle79 3,569]

Why would you watch that garbage?

[aubiefifty 16,761]

11 minutes ago, oracle79 said:

Why would you watch that garbage?

you do not have to enjoy everything you watch if you love history concerning sports. you do not have agree with things. the little jewel of bear doing his thing while Auburn already had and played the first black player in the ironbowl is pretty special to me. i did not realize that and it makes me proud. thanx to ICA for posting.

[weagl1 1,782]

I saw that.  I don’t think Bear Bryant ever wanted to lose a game and, like you said, he was actually in a little trouble at that point in his career.  He had lost big to Pat Sullivan and Auburn in 1969, which one of his worst seasons.  1970 was another poor season for him topped by another loss to Auburn.  They turned it around in 1971 when he went to the wishbone and ruined Auburn’s undefeated season with a beat down as Pat won Heisman.  The trophy was announced before the final game of the season during that era or Pat might not have won it.  But the color barrier had already been broken when Sam Cunningham stomped all over them on Legion Field that day.  Maybe that sped things up a little but coaches around the league had already seen that they were missing out on top players by not recruiting black athletes.  The northern and western schools were signing black athletes so if the southeastern schools wanted to compete they were going to have to follow suit.  The NFL was also singing lots of players from the historically black schools, which put additional pressure on the historically white schools to do the same.  

[DAG 33,977]

5 hours ago, lca408 said:

So I just saw the Gameday special about the 1970 UAT vs USC game and how it was such a big deal with USC having black players at Legion Field at the time. That part was interesting and cool. The part that bothered me was this insane theory floated out there that somehow, Bear Bryant scheduled the game so that USC would win and would help change the minds of Alabama fans about black players? So he could recruit black players without criticism? Like it was some high level double agent stuff?

As I recall, Bryant was already in some hot water by this time with the results from 1969. Why would he purposely intend to lose a game to start the 1970 season? As if Bahr Bryant cared about anything other than winning games. This is the same man who later vetoed grant money to UAB because there had been talk of UAB wanting to start a football program and he didn’t want that pulling resources from Tuscaloosa. 
 

This little program failed to note that most of the conference already had black players, Bryant himself had a black player on the roster who couldn’t play yet because he was a freshman, and then there’s that guy named James Owens who was the first black player to play in an Iron Bowl that very year, in an Auburn uniform.

What a ridiculous example of revisionist history. I mean the game itself and it’s implications were clearly massive and that’s certainly worth a segment. But this further deification of the old drunk with a checkered hat is tired and stupid.

Revision happens all the time in history.  Very rarely is it as accurate as it seems. 

[lca408 366]

1 hour ago, DAG said:

Revision happens all the time history.  Very rarely is it as accurate as it seems. 

Sure it does. Just frustrating when it’s a blatant attempt at making that old fool look better than he was. It’s weird. As political as ESPN is now, why make that leap? It’s a BS take on further glorifying the Bear that’s been peddled by Finebaum and others for years. Just sad to see it repeated so blatantly. 
 

Other than that, the segment was pretty cool. It is indeed a cool part of football history.

[Zeek 16,649]

2 hours ago, lca408 said:

So I just saw the Gameday special about the 1970 UAT vs USC game and how it was such a big deal with USC having black players at Legion Field at the time. That part was interesting and cool. The part that bothered me was this insane theory floated out there that somehow, Bear Bryant scheduled the game so that USC would win and would help change the minds of Alabama fans about black players? So he could recruit black players without criticism? Like it was some high level double agent stuff?

As I recall, Bryant was already in some hot water by this time with the results from 1969. Why would he purposely intend to lose a game to start the 1970 season? As if Bahr Bryant cared about anything other than winning games. This is the same man who later vetoed grant money to UAB because there had been talk of UAB wanting to start a football program and he didn’t want that pulling resources from Tuscaloosa. 
 

This little program failed to note that most of the conference already had black players, Bryant himself had a black player on the roster who couldn’t play yet because he was a freshman, and then there’s that guy named James Owens who was the first black player to play in an Iron Bowl that very year, in an Auburn uniform.

What a ridiculous example of revisionist history. I mean the game itself and it’s implications were clearly massive and that’s certainly worth a segment. But this further deification of the old drunk with a checkered hat is tired and stupid.

I've always heard it was the other way around. That after getting his a** kicked he finally changed his mind because his desire to win was greater than his prejudice.

[Ed Tew 2]

 I did not see the program and do not know what they covered but this is not "revisionist history" at all. An old and well known tale. Alabama was in the midst of an eight year span where they went 0-7-1 in bowls.  Their last bowl victory came after the 1966 season against  a much larger and more physical Nebraska team.  Alabama scored on their opening drive behind Kenny Stabler's passing.  After a successful  onside  kick, they scored again.  Another onside kick led to a field goal and Nebraska was down 17-0 and their offense has not yet been on the field.  Seven turnovers doomed Nebraska's  chances of getting back in the game and Alabama won 34-7.  After that Alabama's  smaller teams were getting pushed around.  They lost to Texas A&M the next year and then were blown out by Missouri 35-10 in the Gator Bowl and Colorado 47-33 in the Liberty Bowl. Bryant knew he had to integrate and was concerned about  the reaction. The story, as told by a USC assistant coach, went like this:  USC coach John Robinson popped into the assistant's office one Saturday morning and said "Come on. We're going to the airport.  Bear Bryant is there and he wants to talk."  Bryant told them he needed to recruit black players and  he wanted Robinson to bring his large and talented team to Birmingham to demonstrate why.  Robinson agreed and the next September USC was at Legion Field. Their running back, Sam (The Bam) Cunningham was larger than the Alabama defensive linemen and  USC dominated in a 23-6 win.  After the game Bryant came to the USC locker room and asked if he could borrow Cunningham for a minute.  He  took Cunningham to the Alabama dressing room and told his players "Gentlemen, I believe you are familiar with Mr. Cunningham.  Mr. Cunningham is a football player. Not a Black football player or a White football player.  Just a football player." The point was made.   I do not think Bryant "lost on purpose" but USC was the superior team so the outcome was predictable.  In the return game in LA the next year, Bryant closed his practices and, in secret, installed the wishbone offense.  USC was caught by surprise and had no clue about defending it.  Alabama won with a smaller and less physical team.

 

 

[Ed Tew 2]

It took another four or five years for Alabama's recruiting to return it to the upper echelon of college football.  That Nebraska game, by the way,  changed who plays on kickoff return forever.  As was typical at the time, Nebraska had their offensive linemen of the return team. Alabama kicked with a small but quick team of running backs, receivers and linebackers. Hence, successful  onside kicks.  

 

[TigerTale 357]

18 minutes ago, Ed Tew said:

 I did not see the program and do not know what they covered but this is not "revisionist history" at all. An old and well known tale. Alabama was in the midst of an eight year span where they went 0-7-1 in bowls.  Their last bowl victory came after the 1966 season against  a much larger and more physical Nebraska team.  Alabama scored on their opening drive behind Kenny Stabler's passing.  After a successful  onside  kick, they scored again.  Another onside kick led to a field goal and Nebraska was down 17-0 and their offense has not yet been on the field.  Seven turnovers doomed Nebraska's  chances of getting back in the game and Alabama won 34-7.  After that Alabama's  smaller teams were getting pushed around.  They lost to Texas A&M the next year and then were blown out by Missouri 35-10 in the Gator Bowl and Colorado 47-33 in the Liberty Bowl. Bryant knew he had to integrate and was concerned about  the reaction. The story, as told by a USC assistant coach, went like this:  USC coach John Robinson popped into the assistant's office one Saturday morning and said "Come on. We're going to the airport.  Bear Bryant is there and he wants to talk."  Bryant told them he needed to recruit black players and  he wanted Robinson to bring his large and talented team to Birmingham to demonstrate why.  Robinson agreed and the next September USC was at Legion Field. Their running back, Sam (The Bam) Cunningham was larger than the Alabama defensive linemen and  USC dominated in a 23-6 win.  After the game Bryant came to the USC locker room and asked if he could borrow Cunningham for a minute.  He  took Cunningham to the Alabama dressing room and told his players "Gentlemen, I believe you are familiar with Mr. Cunningham.  Mr. Cunningham is a football player. Not a Black football player or a White football player.  Just a football player." The point was made.   I do not think Bryant "lost on purpose" but USC was the superior team so the outcome was predictable.  In the return game in LA the next year, Bryant closed his practices and, in secret, installed the wishbone offense.  USC was caught by surprise and had no clue about defending it.  Alabama won with a smaller and less physical team.

 

 

I've heard this story many times as well. Sometimes history is just history. But I guess people can interpret it in different ways

[shabby 1,956]

Why are you posting this here? AUBURN football boards. 

[Ed Tew 2]

 I did not see the program and do not know what they covered but this is not "revisionist history" at all. An old and well known tale. Alabama was in the midst of an eight year span where they went 0-7-1 in bowls.  Their last bowl victory came after the 1966 season against  a much larger and more physical Nebraska team.  Alabama scored on their opening drive behind Kenny Stabler's passing.  After a successful  onside  kick, they scored again.  Another onside kick led to a field goal and Nebraska was down 17-0 and their offense has not yet been on the field.  Seven turnovers doomed Nebraska's  chances of getting back in the game and Alabama won 34-7.  After that Alabama's  smaller teams were getting pushed around.  They lost to Texas A&M the next year and then were blown out by Missouri 35-10 in the Gator Bowl and Colorado 47-33 in the Liberty Bowl. Bryant knew he had to integrate and was concerned about  the reaction. The story, as told by a USC assistant coach, went like this:  USC coach John Robinson popped into the assistant's office one Saturday morning and said "Come on. We're going to the airport.  Bear Bryant is there and he wants to talk."  Bryant told them he needed to recruit black players and  he wanted Robinson to bring his large and talented team to Birmingham to demonstrate why.  Robinson agreed and the next September USC was at Legion Field. Their running back, Sam (The Bam) Cunningham was larger than the Alabama defensive linemen and  USC dominated in a 23-6 win.  After the game Bryant came to the USC locker room and asked if he could borrow Cunningham for a minute.  He  took Cunningham to the Alabama dressing room and told his players "Gentlemen, I believe you are familiar with Mr. Cunningham.  Mr. Cunningham is a football player. Not a Black football player or a White football player.  Just a football player." The point was made.   I do not think Bryant "lost on purpose" but USC was the superior team so the outcome was predictable.  In the return game in LA the next year, Bryant closed his practices and, in secret, installed the wishbone offense.  USC was caught by surprise and had no clue about defending it.  Alabama won with a smaller and less physical team.

 

 

[Ed Tew 2]

I did not start the topic here, I just replied to what I thought was incomplete information.  You think I should read it here and then reply somewhere else? Besides, this is the only forum I read.

[steeleagle 2,945]

3 hours ago, DAG said:

Revision happens all the time history.  Very rarely is it as accurate as it seems. 

As it was said in the movie 'The Man who Shot Liberty Valance', " When the legend becomes fact, print the legend"!

 

[1716AU 728]

2 hours ago, Ed Tew said:

 I did not see the program and do not know what they covered but this is not "revisionist history" at all. An old and well known tale. Alabama was in the midst of an eight year span where they went 0-7-1 in bowls.  Their last bowl victory came after the 1966 season against  a much larger and more physical Nebraska team.  Alabama scored on their opening drive behind Kenny Stabler's passing.  After a successful  onside  kick, they scored again.  Another onside kick led to a field goal and Nebraska was down 17-0 and their offense has not yet been on the field.  Seven turnovers doomed Nebraska's  chances of getting back in the game and Alabama won 34-7.  After that Alabama's  smaller teams were getting pushed around.  They lost to Texas A&M the next year and then were blown out by Missouri 35-10 in the Gator Bowl and Colorado 47-33 in the Liberty Bowl. Bryant knew he had to integrate and was concerned about  the reaction. The story, as told by a USC assistant coach, went like this:  USC coach John Robinson popped into the assistant's office one Saturday morning and said "Come on. We're going to the airport.  Bear Bryant is there and he wants to talk."  Bryant told them he needed to recruit black players and  he wanted Robinson to bring his large and talented team to Birmingham to demonstrate why.  Robinson agreed and the next September USC was at Legion Field. Their running back, Sam (The Bam) Cunningham was larger than the Alabama defensive linemen and  USC dominated in a 23-6 win.  After the game Bryant came to the USC locker room and asked if he could borrow Cunningham for a minute.  He  took Cunningham to the Alabama dressing room and told his players "Gentlemen, I believe you are familiar with Mr. Cunningham.  Mr. Cunningham is a football player. Not a Black football player or a White football player.  Just a football player." The point was made.   I do not think Bryant "lost on purpose" but USC was the superior team so the outcome was predictable.  In the return game in LA the next year, Bryant closed his practices and, in secret, installed the wishbone offense.  USC was caught by surprise and had no clue about defending it.  Alabama won with a smaller and less physical team.

 

 

With what I know about that man, I disregard this story.

Bryant was a racist, a misogynist, a drunkard, and loved to bring uat coeds home to exploit in front of the Mrs. after a game.

He was what every Alabama boy wanted to be.

You learn a lot about that person working there for awhile...

[augolf1716 21,109]

53 minutes ago, steeleagle said:

As it was said in the movie 'The Man who Shot Liberty Valance', " When the legend becomes fact, print the legend"!

 

Great song and even better movie

 

[gr82be 14,423]

1 hour ago, Ed Tew said:

After the game Bryant came to the USC locker room and asked if he could borrow Cunningham for a minute.  He  took Cunningham to the Alabama dressing room and told his players "Gentlemen, I believe you are familiar with Mr. Cunningham.  Mr. Cunningham is a football player. Not a Black football player or a White football player.

This part of the story has been disputed several times. It does make for a movie moment though.

https://www.espn.com/blog/pac12/post/_/id/102489/sam-cunningham-recalls-uscs-historic-1970-win-over-alabama

 

[lca408 366]

Yeah that whole taking Cunningham to the locker room story is apocryphal from everything I can tell. I’ve heard that story for years and not heard a corroborating source. If there’s a legit first hand account I’m all ears. They didn’t even allude to that occurring this morning and they had players on both rosters being interviewed about it as well. No mention of it. 

[lca408 366]

2 hours ago, shabby said:

Why are you posting this here? AUBURN football boards. 

I posted because I felt there was a specific piece of info that they left out - namely that the other team in state already had a black player on the field and playing against them. Perhaps not enough Auburn related I’ll admit. But still pretty cool about the first AA player in the Iron Bowl coming that same year on that same field wearing orange and blue and beating that same team.

[Mikey 16,577]

On 9/12/2020 at 3:52 PM, lca408 said:

I posted because I felt there was a specific piece of info that they left out - namely that the other team in state already had a black player on the field and playing against them. Perhaps not enough Auburn related I’ll admit. But still pretty cool about the first AA player in the Iron Bowl coming that same year on that same field wearing orange and blue and beating that same team.

Yep. The media wants to indicate that Bryant was the moving force in integrating college sports in Alabama. They ignore Auburn's James Owens, who was a year ahead of Bryant's move, and AU basketball player Henry Harris, who was two years ahead.

[Eagle Eye 7 2,535]

On 9/12/2020 at 10:56 AM, DAG said:

Revision happens all the time in history.  Very rarely is it as accurate as it seems. 

No revisions are made to correct the mistake of earlier writings . Usually the revisions look at all the facts instead of just the bias ness of the original writer. 

[DAG 33,977]

9 hours ago, Eagle Eye 7 said:

No revisions are made to correct the mistake of earlier writings . Usually the revisions look at all the facts instead of just the bias ness of the original writer. 

That’s a huge ass lie lol. But this is not the forum for this. All I am going to say is it’s usually the victors who Write history.