Ruth Bader-Ginsburg has died

[homersapien 11,354]

23 hours ago, alexava said:

 

No one has more empathy for deaths of human beings than I do. The difference I see them in the proper perspective. We have 330 million plus population. We extract less than a handful every year and misrepresent facts around them to intentionally stir up emotions for a political agenda. This is fact. 

No, that's not "fact," it's complete BS. 

Statistics - at least as much as they are available - on police killings are available and show disproportionate numbers based on race.  Perhaps an even more telling number would be the statistics - which as far as I know, are not readily available - on the disproportionality of police "stops".  (Just ask my senator, Tim Scott.)  

Didn't you once say you were mugged by a black man?

[Brad_ATX 13,654]

21 minutes ago, alexava said:

35 people at least have been killed. Billions of dollars in damages. Hundreds injuries to police and civilians. Mostly over a guy (life long criminal) who had a lethal amount of fetynol in his system. And 3-4 JUSTIFIED shootings and one f——-g suicide. Yes I’m glad you point out that the entire country is not on fire. That’s very true and I’m glad it’s so. My point is that democrats were not interested in slowing it down until it caused a swing in the polls. 

Whether or not George Floyd was a criminal has no bearing on the fact that he was unjustly killed.  And you act like this is a one off event.  Our Black community has been telling us this stuff happens to them all of the time.  They finally have video evidence and rightfully rose up.  Add in people like Brianna Taylor who was killed in her own apartment and it doesn't get better.

The politicians didn't cause a swing in the polls.  People rising up did.

[Brad_ATX 13,654]

7 minutes ago, homersapien said:

No, that's not "fact," it's complete BS. 

Statistics - at least as much as they are available - on police killings are available and show disproportionate numbers based on race.  Perhaps an even more telling number would be the statistics - which as far as I know, are not readily available - on the disproportionality of police "stops".  (Just as my senator, Tim Scott.)  

Didn't you once say you were mugged by a black man?

Mugged?  Dude, I've been laid down execution style with a gun pointed at the back of my head by a Black man, yet I can still see things for what they are when it comes to systematic issues within our country.

[homersapien 11,354]

6 minutes ago, Brad_ATX said:

Mugged?  Dude, I've been laid down execution style with a gun pointed at the back of my head by a Black man, yet I can still see things for what they are when it comes to systematic issues within our country.

That's extremely impressive and admirable.   My hat's off to you.

I wish I had such control over my emotional reactions.

[SocialCircle 570]

13 hours ago, Brad_ATX said:

Who's trying to hide anything?  I'm literally just asking for either of you to provide something from a legitimate source as this forum requires.  This ain't the smack forum.  Higher standards apply.

There is a sliding scale also on the smack forum, but it is used inconsistently. 

[SocialCircle 570]

13 hours ago, SaturdayGT said:

There's also several takes of the CNN crew downplaying and in a way..backing Antifa....its there, you know it, we all do...not sure why you are so dedicated to cover for it...its not going away.

The rule makers here tend to allow left biased sources like the WA Post, but call foul with right leaning sources. 

[Brad_ATX 13,654]

21 minutes ago, SocialCircle said:

The rule makers here tend to allow left biased sources like the WA Post, but call foul with right leaning sources. 

The WSJ is right leaning.  No one calls folks on it.  There's a difference between legitimate news outlets that are right leaning.  The Fox News division (not opinion like Hannity, but actual news) would usually be fine here too.  But outright crap sources like The Blaze should stay out of this forum.

[SocialCircle 570]

35 minutes ago, Brad_ATX said:

The WSJ is right leaning.  No one calls folks on it.  There's a difference between legitimate news outlets that are right leaning.  The Fox News division (not opinion like Hannity, but actual news) would usually be fine here too.  But outright crap sources like The Blaze should stay out of this forum.

Thanks

[bigbird 60,368]

1 hour ago, Brad_ATX said:

But outright crap sources like The Blaze should stay out of this forum.

Agreed. How 'bout vox?

[Auburnfan91 1,407]

1 hour ago, homersapien said:

No, that's not "fact," it's complete BS. 

Statistics - at least as much as they are available - on police killings are available and show disproportionate numbers based on race.  Perhaps an even more telling number would be the statistics - which as far as I know, are not readily available - on the disproportionality of police "stops".  (Just as my senator, Tim Scott.)  

Didn't you once say you were mugged by a black man?

You're only talking about half of the picture though.

A full picture would be comparing the % of crime committed by blacks and compare it to the % of blacks killed by police. Because when you commit crime, specially violent crime, you're likely going to have encounters with police. If policing in this country is that racist, then the % of blacks killed by police should be higher than the % of crime committed by blacks. 'Disproportionate' is the phrasing used because blacks make up 13% of the population in the U.S.

 

Quote

According to the most recent census data, there are nearly 160 million more white people in America than there are black people. White people make up roughly 62 percent of the U.S. population but only about 49 percent of those who are killed by police officers. African Americans, however, account for 24 percent of those fatally shot and killed by the police despite being just 13 percent of the U.S. population. As The Post noted in a new analysis published last week, that means black Americans are 2.5 times as likely as white Americans to be shot and killed by police officers.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2016/07/11/arent-more-white-people-than-black-people-killed-by-police-yes-but-no/

 

That's where the legacy media stop at and don't go any further with data because they want this to be considered the whole picture of blacks being killed by police.

But that's not the whole picture. Here's a fuller picture of why blacks are 'disproportionately' affected by the police. 

https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/cv18.pdf

Look at Table 12 on the DOJ statistics for 2018

21.7 % of violent incidents in 2018, the offender was black. That's almost identical to the 22% number of blacks killed by police . But in both cases, blacks were disproportionately represented. But that undercuts the narrative that blacks are being targeted by police. If blacks are disproportionately committing violent crime, then it stands to reason that they'll have disproportionate encounters with police. But what the data so far hasn't shown is that police are killing blacks at a disproportionate rate compared to the crime rate.

[Brad_ATX 13,654]

17 minutes ago, bigbird said:

Agreed. How 'bout vox?

Awful source

[Brad_ATX 13,654]

 

[Brad_ATX 13,654]

Interesting poll, especially the number of Republicans that agree with holding it open until after the election.  Could put more pressure on McConnell not to act.

[SocialCircle 570]

3 hours ago, Brad_ATX said:

Whether or not George Floyd was a criminal has no bearing on the fact that he was unjustly killed.  And you act like this is a one off event.  Our Black community has been telling us this stuff happens to them all of the time.  They finally have video evidence and rightfully rose up.  Add in people like Brianna Taylor who was killed in her own apartment and it doesn't get better.

The politicians didn't cause a swing in the polls.  People rising up did.

There is no doubt the police were wrong, but it isn’t factual to say they killed him. He died, but it is not settled as to exactly what caused his death. 

[SocialCircle 570]

1 hour ago, Auburnfan91 said:

You're only talking about half of the picture though.

A full picture would be comparing the % of crime committed by blacks and compare it to the % of blacks killed by police. Because when you commit crime, specially violent crime, you're likely going to have encounters with police. If policing in this country is that racist, then the % of blacks killed by police should be higher than the % of crime committed by blacks. 'Disproportionate' is the phrasing used because blacks make up 13% of the population in the U.S.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2016/07/11/arent-more-white-people-than-black-people-killed-by-police-yes-but-no/

 

That's where the legacy media stop at and don't go any further with data because they want this to be considered the whole picture of blacks being killed by police.

But that's not the whole picture. Here's a fuller picture of why blacks are 'disproportionately' affected by the police. 

https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/cv18.pdf

Look at Table 12 on the DOJ statistics for 2018

21.7 % of violent incidents in 2018, the offender was black. That's almost identical to the 22% number of blacks killed by police . But in both cases, blacks were disproportionately represented. But that undercuts the narrative that blacks are being targeted by police. If blacks are disproportionately committing violent crime, then it stands to reason that they'll have disproportionate encounters with police. But what the data so far hasn't shown is that police are killing blacks at a disproportionate rate compared to the crime rate.

Also if you want to show evidence the police are racially driven, then you need to show white police shoot blacks more than do black police while factoring in the percentages. 

[TexasTiger 12,811]

8 minutes ago, SocialCircle said:

There is no doubt the police were wrong, but it isn’t factual to say they killed him. He died, but it is not settled as to exactly what caused his death. 

So you think had they not tried to arrest him and placed a kneee on his neck for over 8 minutes he would have died anyway?

[TitanTiger 20,471]

3 hours ago, SocialCircle said:

The rule makers here tend to allow left biased sources like the WA Post, but call foul with right leaning sources. 

Bull****. There are plenty of good right leaning sources available to you. 

Wall St Journal

Boston Herald

Barron’s

Dallas Morning News

Financial Times

Forbes

Heterodox Academy

Hoover Institution 

Jerusalem Post

Real Clear Politics

The American Conservative

The Bulwark

Toronto Sun

...among others.

And Reuters, AP, UPI, Christian Science Monitor, Sky News, The Hill, among others are “least biased” and have good track records on accuracy.  

Not to mention even though Fox (Right) CNN (Left) and MSNBC (Left) all are biased and have a mixed history on factual accuracy, we allow for those typically.  

Quit whining and blaming your poor arguments on bad sourcing or bias.  Upgrade your news sources.

 

[SocialCircle 570]

7 minutes ago, TexasTiger said:

So you think had they not tried to arrest him and placed a kneee on his neck for over 8 minutes he would have died anyway?

I don’t know. I absolutely think it is possible based on his medical condition at the time. 

[TitanTiger 20,471]

1 minute ago, SocialCircle said:

I don’t know. I absolutely think it is possible based on his medical condition at the time. 

C'mon man.

[SocialCircle 570]

12 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

bull****. There are plenty of good right leaning sources available to you. 

Wall St Journal

Boston Herald

Barron’s

Dallas Morning News

Financial Times

Forbes

Heterodox Academy

Hoover Institution 

Jerusalem Post

Real Clear Politics

The American Conservative

The Bulwark

Toronto Sun

And Reuters, AP, UPI, Christian Science Monitor, Sky News, The Hill, among others are “least biased” and have good track records on accuracy.  

Not to mention even though Fox (Right) CNN (Left) and MSNBC (Left) all are biased and have a mixed history on factual accuracy, we allow for those typically.  
 

Quit whining and blaming your poor arguments on bad sourcing or bias  

 

Says one who whines about sources on the smack board after mentioning you should always also point out the problem with the content when calling out a source....except this time. 

[TitanTiger 20,471]

32 minutes ago, SocialCircle said:

Says one who whines about sources on the smack board after mentioning you should always also point out the problem with the content when calling out a source....except this time. 

Telling you to use reliable sources is not whining about them.  Complaining about bias all the time and getting upset when people point out the crappy sources you use is whining.

Bottom line, choose better sources and quit bothering me about this subject.  I've given you some resources for finding them and even gave you a short list of some ones to use.

[SocialCircle 570]

8 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

Telling you to use reliable sources is not whining about them.  Complaining about bias all the time and getting upset when people point out the crappy sources you use is whining.

Bottom line, choose better sources and quit bothering me about this subject.  I've given you some resources for finding them and even gave you a short list of some ones to use.

The list does help for sure. Do people still need to point out the issue with the content when they point out someone is using a bad source? Or is this only randomly required?

[Auburnfan91 1,407]

56 minutes ago, TexasTiger said:

So you think had they not tried to arrest him and placed a kneee on his neck for over 8 minutes he would have died anyway?

 

Quote

MINNEAPOLIS — New documents filed in the George Floyd case give new information about the Hennepin County Medical Examiner's findings in Floyd's autopsy.

Handwritten notes of a law enforcement interview with Dr. Andrew Baker, the Hennepin County Medical Examiner, say Floyd had 11 ng/mL of fentanyl in his system. 

"If he were found dead at home alone and no other apparent causes, this could be acceptable to call an OD. Deaths have been certified with levels of 3," Baker told investigators.

In another new document, Baker said, "That is a fatal level of fentanyl under normal circumstances."

But then Baker added, "I am not saying this killed him."

Defense attorneys for the officers have signaled they will argue Floyd died from the drugs and pre-existing health conditions.

The new documents say Floyd had a "heavy heart" and "at least one artery was approximately 75% blocked."

Dr. Stephen Nelson, chairman of Florida's medical examiners commission, who is not affiliated with the case, reviewed the new files and says that doesn't mean the drugs or health condition is what caused Floyd's death.

"We've all had cases where those kinds of of levels come into play. You've got to look at the whole picture," Nelson said. "It's one thing to die *with* something. It's another thing to die *from* something."

The documents say Baker performed the autopsy before watching the videos of police restraining Floyd, with Officer Derek Chauvin's knee on Floyd's neck, because Baker wanted to avoid bias in his autopsy.

In Baker's final report after watching the videos, he ruled Floyd's death a homicide caused by "law enforcement subdual, restraint, and neck compression."

The FBI asked the Armed Forces Medical Examiner to review Baker's autopsy and they agreed with his findings, writing "his death was caused by the police subdual and restraint" with cardiovascular disease and drug intoxication contributing."

The next court hearing is scheduled for Sept. 11.

https://www.kare11.com/article/news/local/george-floyd/new-court-docs-say-george-floyd-had-fatal-level-of-fentanyl-in-his-system/89-ed69d09d-a9ec-481c-90fe-7acd4ead3d04

A relatively healthy person without near fatal levels of drugs in their system likely wouldn't have died. That's the argument that's going to be made in court by defense attorneys for the cops charged in Minneapolis. The fact that without having seen the video, the county medical examiner didn't immediately label it 'restraint' as a cause of death tells me the force was not deadly itself but the force + the drugs in Floyd's system made the force deadly. 

[TitanTiger 20,471]

Just now, SocialCircle said:

The list does help for sure. Do people still need to point out the issue with the content when they point out someone is using a bad source? Or is this only randomly required?

It is preferable to point out the issue.  But also, it's not really fair to keep posting crap sources and then force other people to do the dirty work to show you the errors all the time.  Start with better sources to begin with and the onus is on them to show where it's wrong.  It's one thing to tell someone that their piece from Alternet or Daily Caller is a morass of garbage because normal people should understand that.  But complaining about Reuters, USA Today, NY Times, and ones like like I listed (not counting editorials) while not dealing with the content wouldn't fly.

[SocialCircle 570]

1 minute ago, TitanTiger said:

It is preferable to point out the issue.  But also, it's not really fair to keep posting crap sources and then force other people to do the dirty work to show you the errors all the time.  Start with better sources to begin with and the onus is on them to show where it's wrong.  It's one thing to tell someone that their piece from Alternet or Daily Caller is a morass of garbage because normal people should understand that.  But complaining about Reuters, USA Today, NY Times, and ones like like I listed (not counting editorials) while not dealing with the content wouldn't fly.

Well there weren’t any errors to point out in the link in question. Sometimes people just attack the source when they see truths they don’t like. And I do understand why the link is questionable. 
 

Thanks for the explanation. I understand better now and I’ll try to stay between the buoys.