Does anybody feel the way I do?

[fredst 9,064]

2 hours ago, McLoofus said:

 

Solid. Can never go wrong falling back on 70s rock, especially Frampton and his talk box

[MadtownTiger 363]

On 10/13/2020 at 6:34 PM, cole256 said:

I sat and watched it for years. I saw when it was being built up.....Clemson is everything we should be right now. If we had made the right decisions they are it. They are what we envisioned.....they were just smarter every hire. Every recruit......it's a shame

When I started writing I agreed, but the more I researched early Dabo and compared him to Gus over the same length of time I made a complete course correction.  In short, record-wise, it's basically a push.

So, yes, and no.

Yes, I believe if we had made different personnel decisions we would be better off now.  But no, I don't think Dabo would have made much of a difference at AU.  Bear with me, here's why...

We all know what Gus has done for and to Auburn.  I won't get too deep into my thoughts or feelings on him, these are just some basic records to compare/contrast him with Dabo.  I'll share opinions and a fun/frustrating what-if scenario later.

Normally I wouldn't include the wins or losses before an interim coach took over, but I am in this case.  First, they were 3-3, which doesn't influence the win/loss ratio.  Second, doing so pushes the total number of games closer to even and we get a better look at how they stack up.  Most significantly, not only had CDS been on staff for four years, he was AHC during the 2008 season, so he bears plenty of responsibility for what transpired before Bowden resigned.  In a sense, year one for Dabo was kind of year five.  I'm not giving Gus that kind of nod because I think 2010 is too much of a buoy.  As such, I do think it's fair to include '08 as the first of his first seven seasons as Clemson's HC.  But I'm only including those six games in the overall record, not the totals for losses to ranked teams, or unranked teams, etc.  Doing so definitely benefits Dabo, so maybe it's a tradeoff for saddling him with six extra games.

Between 2008 and 2014 Dabo was 64-29 (Gus was 62-31).  Against ranked opponents CDS was a dismal 8-16 (CGM 19-24 - if those CU teams had played 19 more games against ranked opponents and won about half of them, his record would be nearly the same as CGM's).  He was 4-10 against FSU and USCE, CU's two biggest rivals (CGM was 5-10 against uat and UGA.  In the post season he was 4-3 (CGM 3-6).  It's worth noting both coaches were 1-1 in conference championship games.  Also in that span were eight losses to teams ranked lower than CU, five to unranked teams while CU was ranked.  CGM had twelve losses to lower-ranked teams, four were unranked.

To review, in the first seven seasons at their current stations:

Dabo edges out Gus in overall record by two games.  I think those 19 additional games against ranked opponents really influences these totals.  And I'll let other discuss who inherited a better combination of roster, schedule, and expectations.

Against their primary rivals, Gus surprisingly had a slightly better showing with the same number of losses but one more win.  Makes you wonder what would have happened had either Pettway or Johnson been close to healthy for the UGA rematch.  Or if Thomas and Barber had still been on the roster.

Post season performance is also basically the same.  CU had one more win, but played in two fewer games.  The biggest advantage goes to Dabo on losses to lower-ranked teams, eight to twelve, however he also had more losses to unranked teams.

All of that said, it's obvious the trajectory CU was on from 2014 to the present it drastically different than Auburn 2020 looking ahead.

Words...words...words...I get it.  Now for something a little less dry.

I think the thing that changed Clemson's path wasn't Dabo the coach as much as it was Dabo the staff manager.

Consider this absolutely plausible What-If scenario:

Arkansas State was 4-6 in 2010.  When the HC resigned they promoted their first-year OC, Hugh Freeze.

What if, based on the phenomenal results of Auburn's 2010 campaign, ASU had hired Broyle's Award winner Gus Malzahn instead of the little-known Freeze?  CGM would be there the following year anyway, so it's not too much of a stretch.

In an effort to keep the magic going for 2011, Chizik goes full JABA and once again hires the Tulsa OC, Malzahn's old high school coaching buddy, Chad Morris.  Again, not at all unrealistic.  I like that dream better than the reality of hiring Loeffler.

Before Morris arrived at Clemson, Dabo was 19-15.  While Morris was there they were 42-11.  By the time Morris left for SMU they had acquired Brent Venables and Deshaun Watson, two of the major building blocks of their current dynasty.  Speaking of Venables, what if in 2011 Auburn had hired CBV instead of VanGorder that same year?  Where would each program be headed into 2020?

AND...one more thing...I promise this is the last one.....

Consider that Clemson began the season by hiring Chad Morris, and after a handful of maddening losses (including giving up 70 monkey-feeling points in a bowl game) ended the season by firing...Kevin Steele.

WDE!

[cole256 17,039]

1 hour ago, MadtownTiger said:

When I started writing I agreed, but the more I researched early Dabo and compared him to Gus over the same length of time I made a complete course correction.  In short, record-wise, it's basically a push.

So, yes, and no.

Yes, I believe if we had made different personnel decisions we would be better off now.  But no, I don't think Dabo would have made much of a difference at AU.  Bear with me, here's why...

We all know what Gus has done for and to Auburn.  I won't get too deep into my thoughts or feelings on him, these are just some basic records to compare/contrast him with Dabo.  I'll share opinions and a fun/frustrating what-if scenario later.

Normally I wouldn't include the wins or losses before an interim coach took over, but I am in this case.  First, they were 3-3, which doesn't influence the win/loss ratio.  Second, doing so pushes the total number of games closer to even and we get a better look at how they stack up.  Most significantly, not only had CDS been on staff for four years, he was AHC during the 2008 season, so he bears plenty of responsibility for what transpired before Bowden resigned.  In a sense, year one for Dabo was kind of year five.  I'm not giving Gus that kind of nod because I think 2010 is too much of a buoy.  As such, I do think it's fair to include '08 as the first of his first seven seasons as Clemson's HC.  But I'm only including those six games in the overall record, not the totals for losses to ranked teams, or unranked teams, etc.  Doing so definitely benefits Dabo, so maybe it's a tradeoff for saddling him with six extra games.

Between 2008 and 2014 Dabo was 64-29 (Gus was 62-31).  Against ranked opponents CDS was a dismal 8-16 (CGM 19-24 - if those CU teams had played 19 more games against ranked opponents and won about half of them, his record would be nearly the same as CGM's).  He was 4-10 against FSU and USCE, CU's two biggest rivals (CGM was 5-10 against uat and UGA.  In the post season he was 4-3 (CGM 3-6).  It's worth noting both coaches were 1-1 in conference championship games.  Also in that span were eight losses to teams ranked lower than CU, five to unranked teams while CU was ranked.  CGM had twelve losses to lower-ranked teams, four were unranked.

To review, in the first seven seasons at their current stations:

Dabo edges out Gus in overall record by two games.  I think those 19 additional games against ranked opponents really influences these totals.  And I'll let other discuss who inherited a better combination of roster, schedule, and expectations.

Against their primary rivals, Gus surprisingly had a slightly better showing with the same number of losses but one more win.  Makes you wonder what would have happened had either Pettway or Johnson been close to healthy for the UGA rematch.  Or if Thomas and Barber had still been on the roster.

Post season performance is also basically the same.  CU had one more win, but played in two fewer games.  The biggest advantage goes to Dabo on losses to lower-ranked teams, eight to twelve, however he also had more losses to unranked teams.

All of that said, it's obvious the trajectory CU was on from 2014 to the present it drastically different than Auburn 2020 looking ahead.

Words...words...words...I get it.  Now for something a little less dry.

I think the thing that changed Clemson's path wasn't Dabo the coach as much as it was Dabo the staff manager.

Consider this absolutely plausible What-If scenario:

Arkansas State was 4-6 in 2010.  When the HC resigned they promoted their first-year OC, Hugh Freeze.

What if, based on the phenomenal results of Auburn's 2010 campaign, ASU had hired Broyle's Award winner Gus Malzahn instead of the little-known Freeze?  CGM would be there the following year anyway, so it's not too much of a stretch.

In an effort to keep the magic going for 2011, Chizik goes full JABA and once again hires the Tulsa OC, Malzahn's old high school coaching buddy, Chad Morris.  Again, not at all unrealistic.  I like that dream better than the reality of hiring Loeffler.

Before Morris arrived at Clemson, Dabo was 19-15.  While Morris was there they were 42-11.  By the time Morris left for SMU they had acquired Brent Venables and Deshaun Watson, two of the major building blocks of their current dynasty.  Speaking of Venables, what if in 2011 Auburn had hired CBV instead of VanGorder that same year?  Where would each program be headed into 2020?

AND...one more thing...I promise this is the last one.....

Consider that Clemson began the season by hiring Chad Morris, and after a handful of maddening losses (including giving up 70 monkey-feeling points in a bowl game) ended the season by firing...Kevin Steele.

WDE!

Alot of the questions you all are my points like what if we had hired cbv, like I said I'm not even necessarily saying what if we had dabo instead of Gus but if just a few decisions would be good decisions instead of hiring people he can control.

The things you say are the points I'm making

[Zeek 16,613]

Aside from the need to fire Gus. Please, Greene. The other issues we've had is facilities.

Our locker room renovation was incredibly underwhelming. Still dicking around with Football Facility (Clemson has had theirs for years now) and based off our budget that will be incredibly inferior as well.

Jumbotron is uncovered. 

Stadium lacking upgrades and exterior appeal.

Then we get into Gus' recruiting and roster management...

 

[WarDamnEagleWDE 12,737]

On 10/13/2020 at 6:34 PM, cole256 said:

I sat and watched it for years. I saw when it was being built up.....Clemson is everything we should be right now. If we had made the right decisions they are it. They are what we envisioned.....they were just smarter every hire. Every recruit......it's a shame

We had Jay Jacobs as the AD. No way could we have done what Clemson did with the leadership we had and have. They didn't even have a legit coaching search when they hired Gus. It was a fake search with two big time names thrown in as leading it. Mac Crawford took a huge integrity hit having his name associated with that search. He's all but disappeared now. 

Clemson built football facilities and put a ton of money into the football program, Jay built a big ass TV, you know BIG VISION. 

[Barnacle 9,064]

1 minute ago, WarDamnEagleWDE said:

We had Jay Jacobs as the AD. No way could we have done what Clemson did with the leadership we had and have. They didn't even have a legit coaching search when they hired Gus. It was a fake search with two big time names thrown in as leading it. Mac Crawford took a huge integrity hit having his name associated with that search. He's all but disappeared now. 

Clemson built football facilities and put a ton of money into the football program, Jay built a big ass TV, you know BIG VISION. 

That's fair. Didn't think about it from that perspective. 

[WarDamnEagleWDE 12,737]

34 minutes ago, Zeek said:

Aside from the need to fire Gus. Please, Greene. The other issues we've had is facilities.

Our locker room renovation was incredibly underwhelming. Still dicking around with Football Facility (Clemson has had theirs for years now) and based off our budget that will be incredibly inferior as well.

Jumbotron is uncovered. 

Stadium lacking upgrades and exterior appeal.

Then we get into Gus' recruiting and roster management...

 

If they build it like they say they are this won't be the case. No need to waste a ton of money on things that don't really matter or don't really need. I'm still Mizzouri on this but Tim Cook is suppose to get some folks to help out from his design team at Apple. 

Everything else is spot on. 

[WarDamnEagleWDE 12,737]

Just now, Barnacle said:

That's fair. Didn't think about it from that perspective. 

Then Clemson turns around are hires a true fire proven AD in Raddazzackcs(SP) in 2013 or 2012. All this starts at the top. Our President asks if the Eagle flies good. 

[cole256 17,039]

Stuff is depressing.....legit question are we ever going to have a legit plan to become a great team? Is stuff ever going to change?

[WarDamnEagleWDE 12,737]

One thing that Dago has done that most of these HC's like Gus, Chiz, BOOM ect can't do is keep their ego's in check. Dabo can't call offense's, he knows this so he hired the best and lets them do their job. Same with the defense. Stays out of the way and lets them do their job. It works for him. You can see during a game Venables tell Dado and I quote "get the F out of the way". Dabo does. 

Dabo can recruit as well as anyone in college football and can manage a program better than anyone in college football.  Roster management, everything.  It's a rarity. When Dabo needs something, he gets it ASAP. 

 

[WarDamnEagleWDE 12,737]

4 minutes ago, cole256 said:

Stuff is depressing.....legit question are we ever going to have a legit plan to become a great team? Is stuff ever going to change?

It will change when the bank account start to dry up. We are starting to see this happen right before our eyes. Give us 2 more years of the same football from Gus and you will see apathy like never before with AU football. People don't care. People who have given a lot for AU for years. Don't care anymore. Not till some real changes happen. 

[AUwent 3,747]

13 minutes ago, WarDamnEagleWDE said:

It will change when the bank account start to dry up. We are starting to see this happen right before our eyes. Give us 2 more years of the same football from Gus and you will see apathy like never before with AU football. People don't care. People who have given a lot for AU for years. Don't care anymore. Not till some real changes happen. 

Probably would’ve been accelerated if the refs had made the right call last week.

[fishepa 1,897]

43 minutes ago, AUwent said:

Probably would’ve been accelerated if the refs had made the right call last week.

Yup, Gus always gets bailed out somehow.

[Barnacle 9,064]

55 minutes ago, WarDamnEagleWDE said:

One thing that Dago has done that most of these HC's like Gus, Chiz, BOOM ect can't do is keep their ego's in check. Dabo can't call offense's, he knows this so he hired the best and lets them do their job. Same with the defense. Stays out of the way and lets them do their job. It works for him. You can see during a game Venables tell Dado and I quote "get the F out of the way". Dabo does. 

Dabo can recruit as well as anyone in college football and can manage a program better than anyone in college football.  Roster management, everything.  It's a rarity. When Dabo needs something, he gets it ASAP. 

 

This is the formula that modern teams will win by. Recruiting, in my opinion, is the greatest requirement, and therefore the most important aspect of a coaches resume. 

Gus has Auburn recruiting at a higher level than we've ever been. I grant him that, but does anyone think Gus is an elite recruiter? People see us break into the top 10 of recruiting and assume we are keeping up with Alabama, Georgia, Clemson, OSU, LSU, etc. We are not. The talent advantage they have over us is about equal to the talent advantage we have over a MSU or USCe. 

[McLoofus 35,182]

8 minutes ago, Barnacle said:

This is the formula that modern teams will win by. Recruiting, in my opinion, is the greatest requirement, and therefore the most important aspect of a coaches resume. 

Gus has Auburn recruiting at a higher level than we've ever been. I grant him that, but does anyone think Gus is an elite recruiter? People see us break into the top 10 of recruiting and assume we are keeping up with Alabama, Georgia, Clemson, OSU, LSU, etc. We are not. The talent advantage they have over us is about equal to the talent advantage we have over a MSU or USCe. 

100%. Recruiting is the name of the game. That's why I used to laugh when people would mock Mark Richt, as though that accumulation of talent alone didn't make him one of the top 5 coaches in the country. He was a better Bob Stoops in a far, faaaar tougher conference. Just unlucky as hell.

This is why I want Cristobal. I think he gives us our best chance of recruiting at a championship level. 

[abw0004 10,104]

1 hour ago, WarDamnEagleWDE said:

I'm still Mizzouri on this but Tim Cook is suppose to get some folks to help out from his design team at Apple. 

That would be really cool.

[gr82b4au 5,568]

I think that Clemson has qualities that make it prone to more success than Auburn. 
1) as mentioned, their conference sucks. Even the other top teams like Fl St have been terrible. It is just them and other crap teams. Put Auburn in the acc over the last decade and see how this program would be 
Viewed.
2) they don’t have the all time winningest program and top head coach in the same state...as a rival... in the same conference...in the same division.  Imagine if South Carolina was what Alabama is over the last 12 years And they were in the same conference/division?  Clemson would not be Clemson. 
It is apples and oranges. 
With that being said, Dabo is an amazing recruiter and a heck of a good coach. He runs circles around Gus. I would take him any day of the week. He would instantly make this team better, but still would not be winning like he is at Clemson. He deserves credit for taking Clemson to where they are. Even though it is a terrible conference, he has dominated it like Florida State used to dominate. 

[gr82b4au 5,568]

1 hour ago, cole256 said:

Stuff is depressing.....legit question are we ever going to have a legit plan to become a great team? Is stuff ever going to change?

I wish the people in charge could log in and take a look at the recruiting forum hahaha

they would be like oh &@$!, we are in trouble 

[cole256 17,039]

4 minutes ago, gr82b4au said:

I wish the people in charge could log in and take a look at the recruiting forum hahaha

they would be like oh &@$!, we are in trouble 

I'm happy to know that I'm not crazy. Turns out alot of people feel like me. People are getting fed up. I know without a shadow of doubt if we had top facilities and guys felt like they were getting coached up and getting a clear path to the NFL......this could be a power house. Seems like we just need some good people in leadership

[Zeek 16,613]

2 hours ago, WarDamnEagleWDE said:

If they build it like they say they are this won't be the case. No need to waste a ton of money on things that don't really matter or don't really need. I'm still Mizzouri on this but Tim Cook is suppose to get some folks to help out from his design team at Apple. 

Everything else is spot on. 

I hope man. Was incredibly disappointed with the locker room compared to our peers.

[ellitor 33,062]

2 hours ago, AUwent said:

Probably would’ve been accelerated if the refs had made the right call last week.

Probably not. We are still in a pandemic that has put a lot of things on hold.

[Zeek 16,613]

27 minutes ago, ellitor said:

Probably not. We are still in a pandemic that has put a lot of things on hold.

Agreed, they can't even meet with coaches properly right now even if they wanted to move on from Gus. I think he could go 0-10 this year and he wouldn't get fired until the end of the season or whenever the next amount we have to pay drops dramatically.

Starting (2-1) the meltdown won't happen. We'll likely win half of what we have left at the least (6-4) is enough for him to get a "Rona Mulligan".

2021-22 with Gus is feeling more and more likeable.

[AUBourne 425]

We still have fans (in this thread too) that think Alabama success happens because they are named after a state and that Auburn can not match it. No it happens because they have the same type of support Auburn has but they also have great leadership, planning and a desire to win.  Clemson is successful despite being in the ACC, not because of it. Here at the height of success they still don't generate the money Auburn does ( Program Revenue ). But they have better facilities. Clemson is not reacting because they have to. They actually have a desire to lead and win championships. That is why they fired Bowden but AU hangs on to coaches like Gus and Tuberville. Through actions Auburn leadership shows it just wants to generate profits.  You can't lose to teams like UCF, Tennessee, Mississippi State, Minnesota or match Vandys record vs your rival over a 15 year period and then claim AU would be an annual playoff team if in the ACC. That thought process is a joke. 

[EagleEye67 1,937]

Whose wine?

What wine?

Where the hell did I dine?

[Beaker 2,457]

4 hours ago, AUBourne said:

We still have fans (in this thread too) that think Alabama success happens because they are named after a state and that Auburn can not match it. No it happens because they have the same type of support Auburn has but they also have great leadership, planning and a desire to win.  Clemson is successful despite being in the ACC, not because of it. Here at the height of success they still don't generate the money Auburn does ( Program Revenue ). But they have better facilities. Clemson is not reacting because they have to. They actually have a desire to lead and win championships. That is why they fired Bowden but AU hangs on to coaches like Gus and Tuberville. Through actions Auburn leadership shows it just wants to generate profits.  You can't lose to teams like UCF, Tennessee, Mississippi State, Minnesota or match Vandys record vs your rival over a 15 year period and then claim AU would be an annual playoff team if in the ACC. That thought process is a joke. 

This kinda makes me feel like a Cowboys fan:  Just remain mediocre because mediocrity makes Jerry Jones billions.