The Jalen Hurts Offense

[McLoofus 35,182]

4 minutes ago, AUAlumnTN said:

I meant that Bo has many of the same bad habits as Johnny, i.e. he doesn't give up on plays even when he should, flees clean pockets before he needs to, has inconsistent mechanics, particularly under duress, and frequently wings bad passes into double and triple coverage hoping the receivers will make a play. Johnny got away with it because he was such a brilliant improviser and a legitimately slippery athlete. Bo isn't as dynamic an athlete as Johnny so he pays for his bad habits more. 

I think it's important to also point out that Bo and Johnny arrived at this style of play in very different ways and for very different reasons. JM's free-wheeling style was INTENTIONAL. He knew he could play this way and not only get away with it but be extremely successful doing it. Why would a kid who clearly bought his own hype as "Johnny Football" feel any pressure to change what clearly worked so well for him? Bo on the other hand, plays this way when he panics. When everything is working (against MSST and Bama last year, Kentucky and Ole Miss this year), he's mostly on-schedule and within the offense. 

Hard agree and post more often.

 

[toddc 13,194]

Bo reminds me of, well, Bo Nix! Please stop the insanity!

[Amwest20 139]

6 minutes ago, toddc said:

Bo reminds me of, well, Bo Nix! Please stop the insanity!

Yea they are quite similar 😉

[cole256 17,039]

Must be me but Bo playsnothing like Johnny to me. There are plenty of QB's that tries to make things happen but doesn't but they aren't compared to Johnny. Johnny would run around keep plays alive while keeping his head up and make plays. I don't ever see Bo doing that. I see Bo gets nervous and takes off when he's nervous usually to the right side and is scrambling to run more so than to pass.

I can say I play like Kobe Bryant minus the talent. When I shoot a jumper I want it to go in. When I jump I want to be able to dunk. I can physically shoot a jumper, I can dribble a ball, I even think I can still dunk.....I'm absolutely nothing like Kobe Bryant at all. I feel you all are making super broad statements that damn near anybody can fall under. Pretty much any QB with an ounce of athleticism does that

[Amwest20 139]

9 minutes ago, cole256 said:

Must be me but Bo playsnothing like Johnny to me. There are plenty of QB's that tries to make things happen but doesn't but they aren't compared to Johnny. Johnny would run around keep plays alive while keeping his head up and make plays. I don't ever see Bo doing that. I see Bo gets nervous and takes off when he's nervous usually to the right side and is scrambling to run more so than to pass.

I can say I play like Kobe Bryant minus the talent. When I shoot a jumper I want it to go in. When I jump I want to be able to dunk. I can physically shoot a jumper, I can dribble a ball, I even think I can still dunk.....I'm absolutely nothing like Kobe Bryant at all. I feel you all are making super broad statements that damn near anybody can fall under. Pretty much any QB with an ounce of athleticism does that

That’s fine I get what you’re saying.  Something about both of them gives me the back yard football vibe.  

[cole256 17,039]

2 hours ago, Amwest20 said:

Um..... Never thought about it.... I don’t recall bad choices being bailed out by WRs honestly from JM, although I’m sure it happened.  So to answer your question, no that’s not what I mean.  

Over half of Bo's explosive plays are Seth making an unbelievable play that only maybe 20% of other guys can do. I don't see how you can miss it

[Amwest20 139]

5 minutes ago, cole256 said:

Over half of Bo's explosive plays are Seth making an unbelievable play that only maybe 20% of other guys can do. I don't see how you can miss it

Was referring to JM only and that receivers bailing them out was not the basis of my comparison.  Yes it’s plain as day that Seth makes some awesome plays that most can not.  I do not miss that FYI.  

[abw0004 10,108]

5 minutes ago, cole256 said:

Over half of Bo's explosive plays are Seth making an unbelievable play that only maybe 20% of other guys can do. I don't see how you can miss it

To be fair though, a lot of QB's have a go-to guy like that.  For example DeShaun Watson had Mike Williams, Mac Jones had Jaylen Waddle, Cam Newton had Darvin Adams, and Nick Marshall had Duke Williams in 2014.  There are more but I you know what I mean.

In regard to Bo Nix, Seth seems to be the only receiver who is reliable with his hands.  Anthony Swartz maybe.  Nix targets his other receivers too but they have been dropping balls like crazy as of late.  It kind of reminds me of 2015 for us.

[cole256 17,039]

5 minutes ago, abw0004 said:

To be fair though, a lot of QB's have a go-to guy like that.  For example DeShaun Watson had Mike Williams, Mac Jones had Jaylen Waddle, Cam Newton had Darvin Adams, and Nick Marshall had Duke Williams in 2014.  There are more but I you know what I mean.

In regard to Bo Nix, Seth seems to be the only receiver who is reliable with his hands.  Anthony Swartz maybe.  Nix targets his other receivers too but they have been dropping balls like crazy as of late.  It kind of reminds me of 2015 for us.

I'm not saying anything about the number of times he goes to a guy or having a main guy even though Bo needs to get alot better at it. I'm talking the actual throws. Bo is rarely zipping balls in or hitting guys in stride. I'm not saying he never does it, it's not often. It's more times than not he's lobbing a ball up or just guiding it to a guy that was mostly open. Seth has more jump ball, basketball grabs than most. 

Those other QB you used for examples were all pretty good at spreading the ball around. literally all the guys guy named I know their partners off the top of my head because they caught so many passes

[Amwest20 139]

22 minutes ago, abw0004 said:

To be fair though, a lot of QB's have a go-to guy like that.  For example DeShaun Watson had Mike Williams, Mac Jones had Jaylen Waddle, Cam Newton had Darvin Adams, and Nick Marshall had Duke Williams in 2014.  There are more but I you know what I mean.

In regard to Bo Nix, Seth seems to be the only receiver who is reliable with his hands.  Anthony Swartz maybe.  Nix targets his other receivers too but they have been dropping balls like crazy as of late.  It kind of reminds me of 2015 for us.

Yes the drops are far too common this year.  I agree.

[AUAlumnTN 211]

49 minutes ago, cole256 said:

Must be me but Bo playsnothing like Johnny to me. There are plenty of QB's that tries to make things happen but doesn't but they aren't compared to Johnny. Johnny would run around keep plays alive while keeping his head up and make plays. I don't ever see Bo doing that. I see Bo gets nervous and takes off when he's nervous usually to the right side and is scrambling to run more so than to pass.

I can say I play like Kobe Bryant minus the talent. When I shoot a jumper I want it to go in. When I jump I want to be able to dunk. I can physically shoot a jumper, I can dribble a ball, I even think I can still dunk.....I'm absolutely nothing like Kobe Bryant at all. I feel you all are making super broad statements that damn near anybody can fall under. Pretty much any QB with an ounce of athleticism does that

It's not an exact one-to-one comparison. Bo quite obviously lacks JM's improvisational flair and off-script playmaking ability. I think the comparison is an apt one with regard to both QBs having very obvious and similar bad habits that frequently get them into trouble. Both QBs also seem to take the same approach to try and get out of trouble, Johnny was just better at it. 

[cole256 17,039]

32 minutes ago, Amwest20 said:

Was referring to JM only and that receivers bailing them out was not the basis of my comparison.  Yes it’s plain as day that Seth makes some awesome plays that most can not.  I do not miss that FYI.  

Oh my bad I thought we was comparing them as Mike Evans did for Johnny football as well

[cole256 17,039]

3 minutes ago, AUAlumnTN said:

It's not an exact one-to-one comparison. Bo quite obviously lacks JM's improvisational flair and off-script playmaking ability. I think the comparison is an apt one with regard to both QBs having very obvious and similar bad habits that frequently get them into trouble. Both QBs also seem to take the same approach to try and get out of trouble, Johnny was just better at it. 

I understand the thought I just feel it's very broad and can be said by any number of QB's as that's a fundamental. Like there's a bunch of QB's that rush and don't set their feet so they end up being inaccurate with their throws but I wouldn't say because two QB's do it they are similar. I would say two QB's like mahomes and Rodgers are comparable though because they have the arm arm strength to still make accurate throws off balance, because there aren't too many that can do that. But that's me

[Amwest20 139]

2 minutes ago, cole256 said:

Oh my bad I thought we was comparing them as Mike Evans did for Johnny football as well

You’re good.  Yea Mike was for sure his go to guy.  I was just reading all of posts stating Bo reminds me of so and so and I thought about it for a while and Johnny Football is the one that stuck with me the most.  That is solely based on their style of play.

[cole256 17,039]

1 minute ago, Amwest20 said:

You’re good.  Yea Mike was for sure his go to guy.  I was just reading all of posts stating Bo reminds me of so and so and I thought about it for a while and Johnny Football is the one that stuck with me the most.  That is solely based on their style of play.

I gotcha different perspectives and what not, to me this QBat ole miss played the exact way Bo would if Bo had less talent around him imo. And when I looked at his stats against teams that they were better than they are similar to Bo's when he plays lesser talent as well

[Amwest20 139]

4 minutes ago, cole256 said:

I gotcha different perspectives and what not, to me this QBat ole miss played the exact way Bo would if Bo had less talent around him imo. And when I looked at his stats against teams that they were better than they are similar to Bo's when he plays lesser talent as well

I see the similarities there as well to Corrall.

[AUAlumnTN 211]

9 minutes ago, cole256 said:

I understand the thought I just feel it's very broad and can be said by any number of QB's as that's a fundamental. Like there's a bunch of QB's that rush and don't set their feet so they end up being inaccurate with their throws but I wouldn't say because two QB's do it they are similar. I would say two QB's like mahomes and Rodgers are comparable though because they have the arm arm strength to still make accurate throws off balance, because there aren't too many that can do that. But that's me

Sure, it's not an uncommon thing and there's probably a more accurate comp for Bo Nix overall (Matt Coral's a pretty good one). However, I still think Johnny Manziel's a useful comparison for "Bad Bo Nix" because they are bad in very similar ways. It's not just about bad fundamentals in general, it's about which specific things they're bad at. Johnny's improvisational skill covered up a lot of his flaws but he was still a very flawed QB in many of the same ways Bo is. I think that's for different reasons (Johnny was lazy and sloppy and leaned HARD on his improvisational skill and the talent around him whereas Bo has spent two years playing in an offense that doesn't know what it wants to be but still expects him to carry it) but I don't think it's as broad and general a comparison as you're suggesting. 

[AUght2win 6,818]

19 hours ago, cole256 said:

we have to compare him to hurts and McCoy who he doesn't play anything alike because they are major names!

Imagine thinking that you could actually talk football comparisons by using obscure players.  

"Yeah Bo really reminds me of the backup at Delaware State. Or my Uncle Jimmy when he played JUCO."

[cole256 17,039]

10 minutes ago, AUght2win said:

Imagine thinking that you could actually talk football comparisons by using obscure players.  

"Yeah Bo really reminds me of the backup at Delaware State. Or my Uncle Jimmy when he played JUCO."

I think it's better than he reminds me of Joe Montana if you take away all of Joe's talent

[AUght2win 6,818]

22 hours ago, DAG said:

What? lol . You don’t even know what you are talking about, now. You said that we should emphasize more on Bo’s running ability in the opening (Alas Jalen Hurts) , yet you say a couple of pages later that Bo is more comparable to Colt based on athleticism , build and style of play?  Do you not see how Jalen Hurts and Colt have two completely different styles of play? Jalen Hurts was legit a pseudo running back in Alabama’s offense & OU system. Colt’s highest rushing attempts as a starter for one season doesn’t even match Jalen’s lowest rushing attempt as a starter. So who does Bo play like then? 

This is such a nonsensical take.

Colt and Jalen were completely different? COMPLETELY different? Really? Your assertion is that Colt McCoy was not a mobile QB. 

If you want to talk numbers, let's talk relevant numbers. Colt McCoy had over 1500 yards rushing as a QB in college. Do you realize how few QBs rush for that many yards? Especially in a mid 00's spread - before RPOs, widespread use of the QB read, and the modern no-huddle. He gained more career yards than elite mobile QBs or recent memory such as Dennis Dixon, Kyler Murray, and even Michael Vick. And Colt tacked 20 touchdowns to boot.

Bo is on pace to mirror these career numbers exactly. Colt averaged 3.5 yards a carry. Bo currently averages 3.4. They are both at about the same mark for rushing TDs and yards at this point in Bo's career. 

So now that we've established Colt was a more than capable runner, let's move on to measurables and athletic ability:

Jalen Hurts - 6'1, 223 lbs.

Colt McCoy - 6'1, 220 lbs.

Bo Nix - 6'2, 214 lbs.

Jalen Hurts' 40 time: 4.59

Colt McCoy 40 time: 4.79

Bo Nix 40 time: 4.71

Jalen Hurts 20 split: 2.64

Colt McCoy 20 split: 2.73

Jalen Hurts 10 split: 1.60

Colt McCoy 10 split: 1.64

Colt was a better passer than Jalen. Jalen was a better runner than Colt. Jalen AND Colt are better at Bo in every category. I would label them all to be athletic QBs who aren't elite passers, but are able to run well and improvise.

All 3 are relatively similar phyiscally, and comparable in their abilities, weaknesses, and what they can do on a football field.

If you don't think so, that's fine. Just don't act like it's based on anything other than your subjectivity. 

[Barnacle 9,064]

Oh neat, this thread is still going. 

[TAYLORKEETON 786]

Serious question. Has Bo EVER stayed in the pocket & made a throw like this? I think most of us can recall this play. 

[DAG 33,955]

7 hours ago, AUght2win said:

Your assertion is that Colt McCoy was not a mobile QB. 

You don't know how to read do you? Did I say that? In fact I said in an earlier statement that Colt has sneaky athletic ability but he is not like Jalen Hurts. He does not have the build nor the athleticism to maintain himself like Jalen. So when you say on page 1, that we should run the Jalen offense, but then the next page say well, he is actually more similar to colt, I have to wonder how the hell are we suppose to run the Jalen offense then?

The problem is you contradict yourself on a weekly basis. You just flat out lectured me on comparing stats to players and you just did that when you compare Colt McCoy to Kyler Murray. CONTRADICTION. but let just take a look at that. Kyler Murray 3 seasons of college football. Only 1 full season as a starter. Colt McCoy has played in at least 13 games in all 4 seasons at UT that he was eligible. Colt McCoy had 447 attempts at running to Kyler 154 attempts at running. Out of all of that Colt only has 300 more rushing yards than this kid. The same could be said about Vick who only played two seasons and neither of them had 13 games. Yet, Colt only has 300 something more total rushing yards than him. Do you think that is an honest stat to prove your point? 

You sound like Skip Bayless right now. 

And then you are bringing up 40 times? Why? In the game of football forty times is probably one of the most overrated metrics. Connor Shaw ran a faster 40 than Johnny football, does that mean he compares athletically to Johnny? Again, you are all over the place. Instead of just saying I may have been reaching a little. It is totally okay to say that every once in a while. We all miss sometimes.

[bigbird 60,368]

14 hours ago, abw0004 said:

To be fair though, a lot of QB's have a go-to guy like that.  For example DeShaun Watson had Mike Williams, Mac Jones had Jaylen Waddle, Cam Newton had Darvin Adams, and Nick Marshall had Duke Williams in 2014.  There are more but I you know what I mean.

The great ones, however, use all of their receivers and don't tunnel in on just one. Bo has to do a better job of staying calm, staying in the pocket, and seeing the entire field. All too many times have we missed the wide open guy just to throw a 50/50 ball that's more like a 10/90 ball.

[wcware 1,365]

19 hours ago, cole256 said:

Must be me but Bo playsnothing like Johnny to me. There are plenty of QB's that tries to make things happen but doesn't but they aren't compared to Johnny. Johnny would run around keep plays alive while keeping his head up and make plays. I don't ever see Bo doing that. I see Bo gets nervous and takes off when he's nervous usually to the right side and is scrambling to run more so than to pass.

I can say I play like Kobe Bryant minus the talent. When I shoot a jumper I want it to go in. When I jump I want to be able to dunk. I can physically shoot a jumper, I can dribble a ball, I even think I can still dunk.....I'm absolutely nothing like Kobe Bryant at all. I feel you all are making super broad statements that damn near anybody can fall under. Pretty much any QB with an ounce of athleticism does that

I need a link to you still being able to dunk or it’s not true.