If Gus isn’t fired tomorrow, AU is a loser institution

[AURealist 2,185]

2 minutes ago, abw0004 said:

What is confusing about the question?

2014 BCS National Championship Game

 

[DAG 33,955]

Just now, AUwent said:

You could say (as I have) that 2017 looks better with just conference play. But that's about it.

Out of likes but agreed. 

[AuMarine 1,372]

Just now, tigeraddikt said:

In my humble opinion the difference between us and Bama is that they are 5 and 4 stars held accountable to a professional standard, lest they get replaced by another 4 or 5 star breathing down their necks. We are 4 and 3 stars who aren't held as accountable for excellent play to a upper-high school standard.

Culture. Coaching.. player development...

[weagl1 1,781]

Y’all are missing something very important here and that is the quality of the opponent.  I’ve been watching this game for right at 60 years.  I would put this Alabama team up against any I have ever seen.  There are a half dozen first round draft choices on the offense alone.  Auburn had very little chance of staying with them and what little chance they had went away with the loss of both tackles to injury and Tank being gimpy.  With the loss of the run game the offense was unable to stay on the field and take time off the clock.  You keep giving that Alabama offense possessions they are going to score on any defense in college football.  They not only going to win the national championship it is not going to be close.  Losing to that team is no justification for firing a coach.  You want a justification for getting rid of Gus use the loss to South Carolina that was a horrible coaching job.  

[abw0004 10,108]

Just now, AURealist said:

2014 BCS National Championship Game

 

Ah I see.  I mean as HC for Texas A&M

[DAG 33,955]

2 minutes ago, abw0004 said:

If something does happen to Malzahn, I hope Jack Bicknell, Jr. is retained.  I am impressed with the work he has done.  Even down three starters for the Iron Bowl, they held up pretty decently.

Yes people crap on the line but I don't care, they have been more than serviceable. It is absolutely not on him.

[AuMarine 1,372]

2 minutes ago, abw0004 said:

If something does happen to Malzahn, I hope Jack Bicknell, Jr. is retained.  I am impressed with the work he has done.  Even down three starters for the Iron Bowl, they held up pretty decently.

That we can agree on. The OL has definitely gotten light years better this year ... 

[AUwent 3,747]

3 minutes ago, weagl1 said:

Y’all are missing something very important here and that is the quality of the opponent.  I’ve been watching this game for right at 60 years.  I would put this Alabama team up against any I have ever seen.  There are a half dozen first round draft choices on the offense alone.  Auburn had very little chance of staying with them and what little chance they had went away with the loss of both tackles to injury and Tank being gimpy.  With the loss of the run game the offense was unable to stay on the field and take time off the clock.  You keep giving that Alabama offense possessions they are going to score on any defense in college football.  They not only going to win the national championship it is not going to be close.  Losing to that team is no justification for firing a coach.  You want a justification for getting rid of Gus use the loss to South Carolina that was a horrible coaching job.  

Thankfully their title will always have a giant asterisk.

[tigeraddikt 1,590]

5 minutes ago, Bo Didley said:

Credit where credit is due! We were terrible! Sark smoked Gus! 

You hit on a good point. Bama hit the stratosphere offensively when Saban brought on Kiffin, then Sark. Both were groomed by Pete Carroll at USC to a operate at a professional level in preparation, development, and execution.

[abw0004 10,108]

Just now, DAG said:

Yes people crap on the line but I don't care, they have been more than serviceable. It is absolutely not on him.

Even more impressive was he took over a line with no spring practice and had 4 brand new starters.  I am excited to see the line next year, especially with the Harvard GT that is an NFL-pick coming in.  

[AUFriction 1,179]

10 minutes ago, Brad_ATX said:

Time out.  This is a loser mentality.  You know who else had similar disadvantages and was arguably worse than Auburn historically for the most part of a century?  Clemson.

In fact, let's stay closer to home.  How about Auburn basketball?  Certainly no reason to be power.  But here we are, a season removed from the Final Four and having back-to-back first round picks.

Point being, you go hire someone that sees these weaknesses as challenges.  Great programs stop making excuses and start finding answers.

You and I have done this dance before, and my opinion hasn't shifted at all. Gus's win percentage is in the mid 60s, right next to Tuberville and other coaches historically seen as acceptable. The only two coaches with notably better records were Donahue and Dye. The chances of us getting a coach that turns us into a Clemson or a Bama are very very small. 

 

But, you bring up Clemson, let's talk about Clemson. They lucked out with Dabo. That wasn't some proven hire. They promoted internally after the previous coach stepped down. Clemson made a move that very often leads to a program failing, and it just somehow worked out to their benefit. I'd also argue they'll never see another Dabo after he leaves. Clemson's program has limitations that stop them from being able to generally get legendary kinds of coaches. 

Given where we are right now, replacing Gus is a throw a dart against the wall decision. There aren't many established coaches out there, and the ones that there are we aren't going to get. So, it is more likely that we will take a chance on a coordinator that's never been a head coach (where you have the question of how well they can oversee everything) or we take a chance on a coach from a group of five type school (that may not be able to handle the switch to big boy SEC football). We could end up dropping Gus for a program changing legend that meshes with the Auburn culture and has a win percentage on the level  of the greatest coaches in program history. Or we could end up hiring someone who has records equivalent or worse than Gus's. You have to think, how many legendary coaches have there been at all, and how many has Auburn successfully hired? There aren't a lot to begin with, and Auburn hasn't historically got those kinds of guys (again, I think the only two that belong on that list are Donahue and Dye). So, especially given the success of our rivals in recruiting and our obnoxious boosters' desire for control, it isn't likely we land the former. It is much much more likely we land the latter. So, if we part ways with Gus, we very likely hire someone of Gus's quality or worse. 

[DAG 33,955]

26 minutes ago, Brad_ATX said:

Time out.  This is a loser mentality.  You know who else had similar disadvantages and was arguably worse than Auburn historically for the most part of a century?  Clemson.

In fact, let's stay closer to home.  How about Auburn basketball?  Certainly no reason to be power.  But here we are, a season removed from the Final Four and having back-to-back first round picks.

Point being, you go hire someone that sees these weaknesses as challenges.  Great programs stop making excuses and start finding answers.

My gosh. Imagine where we would be in society if disadvantages individuals just used that as an excuse, instead of motivation. Holy crap. 

[tigeraddikt 1,590]

1 minute ago, AUFriction said:

You and I have done this dance before, and my opinion hasn't shifted at all. Gus's win percentage is in the mid 60s, right next to Tuberville and other coaches historically seen as acceptable. The only two coaches with notably better records were Donahue and Dye. The chances of us getting a coach that turns us into a Clemson or a Bama are very very small. 

 

But, you bring up Clemson, let's talk about Clemson. They lucked out with Dabo. That wasn't some proven hire. They promoted internally after the previous coach stepped down. Clemson made a move that very often leads to a program failing, and it just somehow worked out to their benefit. I'd also argue they'll never see another Dabo after he leaves. Clemson's program has limitations that stop them from being able to generally get legendary kinds of coaches. 

Given where we are right now, replacing Gus is a throw a dart against the wall decision. There aren't many established coaches out there, and the ones that there are we aren't going to get. So, it is more likely that we will take a chance on a coordinator that's never been a head coach (where you have the question of how well they can oversee everything) or we take a chance on a coach from a group of five type school (that may not be able to handle the switch to big boy SEC football). We could end up dropping Gus for a program changing legend that meshes with the Auburn culture and has a win percentage on the level  of the greatest coaches in program history. Or we could end up hiring someone who has records equivalent or worse than Gus's. You have to think, how many legendary coaches have there been at all, and how many has Auburn successfully hired? There aren't a lot to begin with, and Auburn hasn't historically got those kinds of guys (again, I think the only two that belong on that list are Donahue and Dye). So, especially given the success of our rivals in recruiting and our obnoxious boosters' desire for control, it isn't likely we land the former. It is much much more likely we land the latter. So, if we part ways with Gus, we very likely hire someone of Gus's quality or worse. 

Watch out spreading this type of truth after an IB beatdown on this forum!!!

[woodford 3,655]

11 minutes ago, abw0004 said:

If something does happen to Malzahn, I hope Jack Bicknell, Jr. is retained.  I am impressed with the work he has done.  Even down three starters for the Iron Bowl, they held up pretty decently.

I will eat some crow, the OL has improved. Still not any good but much better than it was against UGA. 

[Brad_ATX 13,654]

6 minutes ago, weagl1 said:

Y’all are missing something very important here and that is the quality of the opponent.  I’ve been watching this game for right at 60 years.  I would put this Alabama team up against any I have ever seen.  There are a half dozen first round draft choices on the offense alone.  Auburn had very little chance of staying with them and what little chance they had went away with the loss of both tackles to injury and Tank being gimpy.  With the loss of the run game the offense was unable to stay on the field and take time off the clock.  You keep giving that Alabama offense possessions they are going to score on any defense in college football.  They not only going to win the national championship it is not going to be close.  Losing to that team is no justification for firing a coach.  You want a justification for getting rid of Gus use the loss to South Carolina that was a horrible coaching job.  

With respect, it seems as if you are missing something very important.

The coaching staff's job is to give the team it's best chance to win.  I don't think anyone complaining here expected to win today.

But what is unacceptable is rolling over.  Things like running up the middle on 2nd and 13 repeatedly are disgusting to watch.  That's throwing in the towel.

Remember the 1998, 1999, or 2009 games?  We were severely out manned those days too.  But we threw EVERYTHING we had at Bama.  That's all any of us are asking for with regards to today.  And the problem is, this isn't a one off occurrence.  It's been this way for every big road game against Bama and UGA during Gus's tenure with the exception of the 2014 Iron Bowl.

[AUFriction 1,179]

7 minutes ago, weagl1 said:

Y’all are missing something very important here and that is the quality of the opponent.  I’ve been watching this game for right at 60 years.  I would put this Alabama team up against any I have ever seen.  There are a half dozen first round draft choices on the offense alone.  Auburn had very little chance of staying with them and what little chance they had went away with the loss of both tackles to injury and Tank being gimpy.  With the loss of the run game the offense was unable to stay on the field and take time off the clock.  You keep giving that Alabama offense possessions they are going to score on any defense in college football.  They not only going to win the national championship it is not going to be close.  Losing to that team is no justification for firing a coach.  You want a justification for getting rid of Gus use the loss to South Carolina that was a horrible coaching job.  

That to me is kind of the surprise here. I get that people are upset over Gus's performance, but why is a loss to THIS alabama team causing this much discussion. This really might be Saban's best team now that the defense has started clicking for them. This game shouldn't have really affected anyone's decision. If you wanted us to fire Gus before, you should probably still logically be thinking that. If you didn't, this game shouldn't have swayed you the other way. Given how well Bama has been playing this season, what happened tonight is not a surprise. For God's sake, they've won every game by double digits, and, since the defense has been clicking for them, they've blown everyone on their schedule out, including UGA. 

[AUwent 3,747]

3 minutes ago, AUFriction said:

You and I have done this dance before, and my opinion hasn't shifted at all. Gus's win percentage is in the mid 60s, right next to Tuberville and other coaches historically seen as acceptable. The only two coaches with notably better records were Donahue and Dye. The chances of us getting a coach that turns us into a Clemson or a Bama are very very small. 

 

But, you bring up Clemson, let's talk about Clemson. They lucked out with Dabo. That wasn't some proven hire. They promoted internally after the previous coach stepped down. Clemson made a move that very often leads to a program failing, and it just somehow worked out to their benefit. I'd also argue they'll never see another Dabo after he leaves. Clemson's program has limitations that stop them from being able to generally get legendary kinds of coaches. 

Given where we are right now, replacing Gus is a throw a dart against the wall decision. There aren't many established coaches out there, and the ones that there are we aren't going to get. So, it is more likely that we will take a chance on a coordinator that's never been a head coach (where you have the question of how well they can oversee everything) or we take a chance on a coach from a group of five type school (that may not be able to handle the switch to big boy SEC football). We could end up dropping Gus for a program changing legend that meshes with the Auburn culture and has a win percentage on the level  of the greatest coaches in program history. Or we could end up hiring someone who has records equivalent or worse than Gus's. You have to think, how many legendary coaches have there been at all, and how many has Auburn successfully hired? There aren't a lot to begin with, and Auburn hasn't historically got those kinds of guys (again, I think the only two that belong on that list are Donahue and Dye). So, especially given the success of our rivals in recruiting and our obnoxious boosters' desire for control, it isn't likely we land the former. It is much much more likely we land the latter. So, if we part ways with Gus, we very likely hire someone of Gus's quality or worse. 

Without paying $7 million for it? Ok

[AuMarine 1,372]

2 minutes ago, Brad_ATX said:

With respect, it seems as if you are missing something very important.

The coaching staff's job is to give the team it's best chance to win.  I don't think anyone complaining here expected to win today.

But what is unacceptable is rolling over.  Things like running up the middle on 2nd and 13 repeatedly are disgusting to watch.  That's throwing in the towel.

Remember the 1998, 1999, or 2009 games?  We were severely out manned those days too.  But we threw EVERYTHING we had at Bama.  That's all any of us are asking for with regards to today.  And the problem is, this isn't a one off occurrence.  It's been this way for every big road game against Bama and UGA during Gus's tenure with the exception of the 2014 Iron Bowl.

100% it is not about losing.. no realistic fan thought we would beat them in Tuscaloosa. It is how we lost. 

[DAG 33,955]

Everybody look up above! This is the exact excuse some posters also said would happen in the pseudo optimism thread. As soon as we get killed a portion of the fanbase would be like "This Alabama team is bona fide studs, they are the greatest, we shouldn't be surprised." But these same folks were fine questioning others loyalty when the opposing opinion was of be realistic. Moreover, if we would have won they would be quick to run to promoting Gus for beating the great NS. 

But the real truth is not the fact that we loss (Although that sucks). It is the fact that we get manhandled when that should not be the case.

1. Because of our talent

2. Because we are paying a coach top tier money to field a top tier team

Why is this so hard to comprehend?

[Brad_ATX 13,654]

5 minutes ago, AUFriction said:

You and I have done this dance before, and my opinion hasn't shifted at all. Gus's win percentage is in the mid 60s, right next to Tuberville and other coaches historically seen as acceptable. The only two coaches with notably better records were Donahue and Dye. The chances of us getting a coach that turns us into a Clemson or a Bama are very very small. 

 

But, you bring up Clemson, let's talk about Clemson. They lucked out with Dabo. That wasn't some proven hire. They promoted internally after the previous coach stepped down. Clemson made a move that very often leads to a program failing, and it just somehow worked out to their benefit. I'd also argue they'll never see another Dabo after he leaves. Clemson's program has limitations that stop them from being able to generally get legendary kinds of coaches. 

Given where we are right now, replacing Gus is a throw a dart against the wall decision. There aren't many established coaches out there, and the ones that there are we aren't going to get. So, it is more likely that we will take a chance on a coordinator that's never been a head coach (where you have the question of how well they can oversee everything) or we take a chance on a coach from a group of five type school (that may not be able to handle the switch to big boy SEC football). We could end up dropping Gus for a program changing legend that meshes with the Auburn culture and has a win percentage on the level  of the greatest coaches in program history. Or we could end up hiring someone who has records equivalent or worse than Gus's. You have to think, how many legendary coaches have there been at all, and how many has Auburn successfully hired? There aren't a lot to begin with, and Auburn hasn't historically got those kinds of guys (again, I think the only two that belong on that list are Donahue and Dye). So, especially given the success of our rivals in recruiting and our obnoxious boosters' desire for control, it isn't likely we land the former. It is much much more likely we land the latter. So, if we part ways with Gus, we very likely hire someone of Gus's quality or worse. 

1) Comparing Gus to Tubs isn't very strong.  Awesome.  Each averages 8-4.  Yippee.

2) As someone else has stated, if your argument is that we might just hire someone of Gus's quality anyway, then that's a net win.  We can get the same results for $3M-$4M less per year.  It's just good business at that point.

3) Clemson had the same kind of program Florida State had in the 70s and Florida had pre Spurrier.  Both of those places have been successful after their Dabo-like coaches left.  Clemson ain't going anywhere anytime soon.

[AUBourne 425]

I will take a chance on hope and excitement and maybe disappointment over the the certainty of the garbage product Gus produces. 

It is not about one game. Its about the 7 straight seasons of four losses or more with and downward recruiting trend pointing to a relegation to second tier status that could take a decade to climb out of. 

[AUwent 3,747]

Just now, DAG said:

Everybody look up above! This is the exact excuse some posters also said would happen in the pseudo optimism thread. As soon as we get killed a portion of the fanbase would be like "This Alabama team is bona fide studs, they are the greatest, we shouldn't be surprised." But these same folks were fine questioning others loyalty when the opposing opinion was of be realistic.

But the real truth is not the fact that we loss (Although that sucks). It is the fact that we get manhandled when that should not be the case.

1. Because of our talent

2. Because we are paying a coach top tier money to field a top tier team

Why is this so hard to comprehend?

What's more, we got blown out by a Georgia team with a weak QB. Mississippi State went toe to toe with that same Georgia team after they had found a better QB. There's also the needing really bad calls against Arky and Miss.

[AuMarine 1,372]

4 minutes ago, AUFriction said:

That to me is kind of the surprise here. I get that people are upset over Gus's performance, but why is a loss to THIS alabama team causing this much discussion. This really might be Saban's best team now that the defense has started clicking for them. This game shouldn't have really affected anyone's decision. If you wanted us to fire Gus before, you should probably still logically be thinking that. If you didn't, this game shouldn't have swayed you the other way. Given how well Bama has been playing this season, what happened tonight is not a surprise. For God's sake, they've won every game by double digits, and, since the defense has been clicking for them, they've blown everyone on their schedule out, including UGA. 

Is Alabama good? Yes.. but I would argue you can get a lot of yardage on their defense.. it will be interesting to watch if they play clemson or Ohio state.. how that goes for them. On offense.. they are absolutely almost unstoppable.. but you can score with them.. 

[DAG 33,955]

1 minute ago, AUwent said:

What's more, we got blown out by a Georgia team with a weak QB. Mississippi State went toe to toe with that same Georgia team after they had found a better QB. There's also the needing really bad calls against Arky and Miss.

But Oregon loss to Oregon State

[Brad_ATX 13,654]

Just now, AUwent said:

What's more, we got blown out by a Georgia team with a weak QB. Mississippi State went toe to toe with that same Georgia team after they had found a better QB. There's also the needing really bad calls against Arky and Miss.

Don't forget the Kentucky game too.  We are 2-3 really bad calls away from being 3-5 at best.