If Gus isn’t fired tomorrow, AU is a loser institution

[GwillMac6 20,607]

Just now, WalkingCarpet said:

Pretty sure Vandy has won in Athens more recently than we have too. Actually, they've won twice in Athens since the last time we did it. 

So has South Carolina. So has Mizzou. Miss ST has won twice in Baton Rouge since the last time we have. Hell Troy has won once in Baton Rouge since the last time we did. And almost won a second time there as well.

[WalkingCarpet 1,379]

3 minutes ago, GwillMac6 said:

So has South Carolina. So has Mizzou. Miss ST has won twice in Baton Rouge since the last time we have. Hell Troy has won once in Baton Rouge since the last time we did. And almost won a second time there as well.

[AUFriction 1,179]

54 minutes ago, PigskinPat said:

Nowhere did I say that half the coaches in all divisions of college football are better than Gus. If you can find it, please quote it. And equal to isn’t the same as better. It just isn’t. The original comment was that 1/2 the coaches in college football could get the same results that Gus has gotten (about 4-5 losses a season). That’s not a high bar to clear. I mean, we had a 5-19 coach from Iowa State win a national championship at Auburn for goodness sakes. I don’t think it is out of the realm of possibility that a lot of coaches could come here and have seasons with 4-5 losses.

I'm still not seeing your point. Those coaches aren't coaching against the top minds in college football. A coach losing 4-5 games in the MAC is not the same as a coach losing 4-5 in the SEC. If these lower level coaches are just as capable, why aren't they getting offers from other programs? That's why I keep saying your argument is senseless. Gus has a big buyout right now because other programs wanted to hire him away from us. You don't see that with coaches in the freakin MAC. The debate over Malzahn isn't really over whether he's a good coach or not. The issue is over whether he is a good enough coach. Is he good enough to be worth how much we're paying him? Is he good enough to be in charge of a program that's arguably top 10 or top 15 historically? He is a good coach. He just might not be good enough for Auburn. There's a huge difference. 

Comparing to Chizik is a bad argument as well. Chizik's problems at Iowa State and his problems at Auburn were different problems At Iowa State, he inherited essentially an empty roster. He was playing a lot of freshmen and sophomores in his 2 years there. And, if you look at the coach that came behind him, he actually recruited the program pretty well. The coach behind him was able to win for about 3 years. When Chizik's players graduated, the program went downhill really fast. Chizik's problems at Auburn were multifaceted, but really didn't start until after the NC. Part of what went wrong was that he did not assert himself with the athletic department very well. After the 4 players got arrested for robbery, the athletic department started really meddling in the program and at one point completely took over handling player discipline issues from Chizik. Another part of what went wrong was that he allegedly got a big ego after winning the championship. Before that, he was a players' coach. After the championship, he acted like he was the God of football, which made it easy for the team to quit on him in 2012. Finally, he did exactly what people on here are wanting right now. He made two hires that were risky. Loeffler was an up and coming coordinator that claimed to run a multiple offensive system and had a history working with good quarterbacks. Van Gorder was an established coordinator, but he was pretty philosophically different from Chizik in almost every way. Both hires had potential to be really strong hires, but also had the potential to not work out. They ended up not working out. The reason I bring all of this up is because Chizik was not this terrible coach he's been framed as. He turned into a bad coach later in his tenure, but he actually did a heck of a job in his first two years.  

[PigskinPat 2,568]

10 minutes ago, AUFriction said:

I'm still not seeing your point. Those coaches aren't coaching against the top minds in college football. A coach losing 4-5 games in the MAC is not the same as a coach losing 4-5 in the SEC. If these lower level coaches are just as capable, why aren't they getting offers from other programs? That's why I keep saying your argument is senseless. Gus has a big buyout right now because other programs wanted to hire him away from us. You don't see that with coaches in the freakin MAC. The debate over Malzahn isn't really over whether he's a good coach or not. The issue is over whether he is a good enough coach. Is he good enough to be worth how much we're paying him? Is he good enough to be in charge of a program that's arguably top 10 or top 15 historically? He is a good coach. He just might not be good enough for Auburn. There's a huge difference. 

Comparing to Chizik is a bad argument as well. Chizik's problems at Iowa State and his problems at Auburn were different problems At Iowa State, he inherited essentially an empty roster. He was playing a lot of freshmen and sophomores in his 2 years there. And, if you look at the coach that came behind him, he actually recruited the program pretty well. The coach behind him was able to win for about 3 years. When Chizik's players graduated, the program went downhill really fast. Chizik's problems at Auburn were multifaceted, but really didn't start until after the NC. Part of what went wrong was that he did not assert himself with the athletic department very well. After the 4 players got arrested for robbery, the athletic department started really meddling in the program and at one point completely took over handling player discipline issues from Chizik. Another part of what went wrong was that he allegedly got a big ego after winning the championship. Before that, he was a players' coach. After the championship, he acted like he was the God of football, which made it easy for the team to quit on him in 2012. Finally, he did exactly what people on here are wanting right now. He made two hires that were risky. Loeffler was an up and coming coordinator that claimed to run a multiple offensive system and had a history working with good quarterbacks. Van Gorder was an established coordinator, but he was pretty philosophically different from Chizik in almost every way. Both hires had potential to be really strong hires, but also had the potential to not work out. They ended up not working out. The reason I bring all of this up is because Chizik was not this terrible coach he's been framed as. He turned into a bad coach later in his tenure, but he actually did a heck of a job in his first two years.  

I have to be honest, I stopped reading at “Gus has a big buyout right now because other programs wanted to hire him away from us”.

Let’s just chalk this one up to a difference of opinions.

[AUFriction 1,179]

41 minutes ago, Brad_ATX said:

I hate when people say this.  Nick Saban never coached in the South before going to LSU.  Same for Urban Meyer before he got to Florida.  And neither one of them were the big name coaches that they ended up being at the time of their respective hires.  Meyer was at a then Group of Five school in Utah and Saban came off a decent, but not earth shattering, stint at Michigan State.

Point being that recruits follow good coaching, plain and simple.

You just referenced arguably the two best recruiting coaches in the modern history of college football though. And, with Saban, his recruiting has gotten better over time, and his classes at Bama have been better than his classes at LSU. He was an unnaturally good recruiter when he got to LSU. Once he got more connected around the southeast, his already good recruiting became unmatchable. I'd say that Saban and Meyer were the exception, not the rule. I'd challenge you to name 3 more coaches that have been able to recruit successfully in a region where they had no connection or history. 

[AUFriction 1,179]

5 minutes ago, PigskinPat said:

I have to be honest, I stopped reading at “Gus has a big buyout right now because other programs wanted to hire him away from us”.

Let’s just chalk this one up to a difference of opinions.

Uhhhhh... That statement is fact. We renegotiated his contract because Arkansas wanted him BADLY. Included in that contract was Gus's desire for more job security. Thus, the large buyout was the result of Gus's agent saying, "if you won't give him a large buyout, Gus will be taking his services to Arkansas." He LITERALLY has the large buyout because someone else wanted him. There's no opinion to differ on. The statement above is an absolute fact. 

[cole256 17,039]

49 minutes ago, Brad_ATX said:

I hate when people say this.  Nick Saban never coached in the South before going to LSU.  Same for Urban Meyer before he got to Florida.  And neither one of them were the big name coaches that they ended up being at the time of their respective hires.  Meyer was at a then Group of Five school in Utah and Saban came off a decent, but not earth shattering, stint at Michigan State.

Point being that recruits follow good coaching, plain and simple.

It's one of the weakest arguments EVER. If you're a good coach you'll get recruits....period. If you establish you can coach guys and they get better and have opportunities to go pro you get players. It's not hard or rocket science. You can look at a guy like James Franklin when he was at vandy. 

You would actually be hard pressed to find a guy who is a good coach that can't get recruits. 

[metafour 4,958]

2 minutes ago, AUFriction said:

Uhhhhh... That statement is fact. We renegotiated his contract because Arkansas wanted him BADLY. Included in that contract was Gus's desire for more job security. Thus, the large buyout was the result of Gus's agent saying, "if you won't give him a large buyout, Gus will be taking his services to Arkansas." He LITERALLY has the large buyout because someone else wanted him. There's no opinion to differ on. The statement above is an absolute fact. 

He has a huge buyout because we had a completely inept idiot at President who negotiated an extension for no reason. There is no actual proof that Arkansas wanted him "badly" - I know for a fact that the money people at Arkansas were extremely split on him because half of those guys blackballed him after the way he left Arkansas when he was OC under Nutt. Even if Arkansas wanted him badly, you understand that Arkansas is well below us as a program...right? If he was actually willing to leave for Arkansas - a shittier program - then he has no business being here in the first place, because that signifies that he quite obviously isn't trying to win, but to make money. 

What actually happened is that our administration was in shambles at the time, and it turned out to be the perfect timing for Sexton to weasel a new contract out under the sales pitch that we needed "stability".

[AUFriction 1,179]

16 minutes ago, metafour said:

He has a huge buyout because we had a completely inept idiot at President who negotiated an extension for no reason. There is no actual proof that Arkansas wanted him "badly" - I know for a fact that the money people at Arkansas were extremely split on him because half of those guys blackballed him after the way he left Arkansas when he was OC under Nutt. Even if Arkansas wanted him badly, you understand that Arkansas is well below us as a program...right? If he was actually willing to leave for Arkansas - a shittier program - then he has no business being here in the first place, because that signifies that he quite obviously isn't trying to win, but to make money. 

What actually happened is that our administration was in shambles at the time, and it turned out to be the perfect timing for Sexton to weasel a new contract out under the sales pitch that we needed "stability".

That contributed to it, but Sexton wouldn't have had the opening unless Arkansas expressed interest. In fact, Arkansas gave an outlandish counter offer to sign Gus, and we countered again to keep him. The ineptness was in the administration not in believing a "false" report over Arkansas's interest. It was in not calling his bluff. Gus didn't want to go to Arkansas. He was never planning to bail. The program was in bad shape at the time, and I've always gotten the impression he was bitter over how the Houston Nutt stuff ended. But Arkansas's legitimate desire for Gus gave Sexton a way to push for an extension and a big buyout. Had Arkansas not expressed a very large interest in signing him, he wouldn't have gotten extension. If the president had just said, "You want to take over that program that Bielema ran into the ground? Okay. Leave if you feel like leaving," Gus would've stayed without an extension. 

It isn't just Arkansas by the way. I have a lot of friends in the midwest that are friends of Michigan, Michigan State, and Wisconsin. They all think our fan base is nuts over wanting rid of Gus, and some of them (especially the Michigan fans) actually want him BADLY. 

[Never2Yield 1,005]

2 minutes ago, AUFriction said:

That contributed to it, but Sexton wouldn't have had the opening unless Arkansas expressed interest. In fact, Arkansas gave an outlandish counter offer to sign Gus, and we countered again to keep him. The ineptness was in the administration not in believing a "false" report over Arkansas's interest. It was in not calling his bluff. Gus didn't want to go to Arkansas. He was never planning to bail. The program was in bad shape at the time, and I've always gotten the impression he was bitter over how the Houston Nutt stuff ended. But Arkansas's legitimate desire for Gus gave Sexton a way to push for an extension and a big buyout. Had Arkansas not expressed a very large interest in signing him, he wouldn't have gotten extension. If the president had just said, "You want to take over that program that Bielema ran into the ground? Okay. Leave if you feel like leaving," Gus would've stayed without an extension. 

It isn't just Arkansas by the way. I have a lot of friends in the midwest that are friends of Michigan, Michigan State, and Wisconsin. They all think our fan base is nuts over wanting rid of Gus, and some of them (especially the Michigan fans) actually want him BADLY. 

Stop lying! 🤥 

[AUFriction 1,179]

33 minutes ago, cole256 said:

It's one of the weakest arguments EVER. If you're a good coach you'll get recruits....period. If you establish you can coach guys and they get better and have opportunities to go pro you get players. It's not hard or rocket science. You can look at a guy like James Franklin when he was at vandy. 

You would actually be hard pressed to find a guy who is a good coach that can't get recruits. 

The response to your post is complicated because, at this level of football now, you really have to be able to recruit to be a successful coach. If you were to put like percentages on how much recruitment versus development matter, it would be like 67% recruitment, and 33% development. 

There have been plenty of examples of this in the past and in non-SEC teams though. In Auburn history, that was the problem for Tubbs. He was a decent in game coach. He put together a good development staff, but he couldn't recruit worth a flip. Bielema would be another example. He was quite successful at Wisconsin at signing 3 stars and developing them into good college players. That just wasn't enough for the SEC. 

But back to the original argument, you recruit BETTER when you have established relationships with coaches in the area you are recruiting from. Being a good salesman also matters. Have a reputation of being a "winner" also helps. But the truly elite recruiters have strong relationships with high school coaches in the places they are recruiting. It takes time to build those relationships if you aren't local. So you are disadvantaged at first if you aren't from the region.  

 

[AUFriction 1,179]

6 minutes ago, Never2Yield said:

Stop lying! 🤥 

I am a fact guided person. Lying on a message board isn't in my personality. I'm so known for being brutally honest that I've been described as being a robot. What I described are the events as I remember them from 2017. I can go pull stuff out of the message board from back then if necessary. But the accepted fact was that Arkansas really wanted him, and all the Auburn reporters were reporting that they put out an incredible offer to Sexton to get him. 

[WalkingCarpet 1,379]

33 minutes ago, AUFriction said:

That contributed to it, but Sexton wouldn't have had the opening unless Arkansas expressed interest. In fact, Arkansas gave an outlandish counter offer to sign Gus, and we countered again to keep him. The ineptness was in the administration not in believing a "false" report over Arkansas's interest. It was in not calling his bluff. Gus didn't want to go to Arkansas. He was never planning to bail. The program was in bad shape at the time, and I've always gotten the impression he was bitter over how the Houston Nutt stuff ended. But Arkansas's legitimate desire for Gus gave Sexton a way to push for an extension and a big buyout. Had Arkansas not expressed a very large interest in signing him, he wouldn't have gotten extension. If the president had just said, "You want to take over that program that Bielema ran into the ground? Okay. Leave if you feel like leaving," Gus would've stayed without an extension. 

It isn't just Arkansas by the way. I have a lot of friends in the midwest that are friends of Michigan, Michigan State, and Wisconsin. They all think our fan base is nuts over wanting rid of Gus, and some of them (especially the Michigan fans) actually want him BADLY. 

How hilarious would it be for Michigan to fire Harbaugh only to get Gus instead? We shouldn't listen to these arguments from fans who might watch two of our games in a given season just like Michigan fans shouldn't listen to us if we tell them they're nuts for wanting Harbaugh out. I've turned more than a few non aligned types to our side of the Gus argument by simply pointing out that there's 11 other games on the schedule that aren't against Alabama and his record is merely decent against the bad teams and just awful against the good. Also that we can tell by the end of the first quarter if we're going to win or not with 95% certainty just by how the offense looks. 

[TitanTiger 20,471]

5 hours ago, AUFriction said:

Uhhhhh... That statement is fact. We renegotiated his contract because Arkansas wanted him BADLY. Included in that contract was Gus's desire for more job security. Thus, the large buyout was the result of Gus's agent saying, "if you won't give him a large buyout, Gus will be taking his services to Arkansas." He LITERALLY has the large buyout because someone else wanted him. There's no opinion to differ on. The statement above is an absolute fact. 

Arkansas wanted him, but we got played.  We overpaid for him and that's just the truth.  

[TitanTiger 20,471]

7 hours ago, cole256 said:

You never explained any logic of your doubts of a&m but you talk us up

 

A&M has never won the West. We've won it three times in the last decade, twice since they joined the league.

We played for a BCS title since they joined and twice in the last 10 years.  And I think most rightly believe we'd have made the CFP in 2017 if Kerryon doesn't go down before the SEC title game.  A&M hasn't played for anything of national significance since joining the league, or really anytime since the 80s or 90s.

In fact, they finished 2nd in the West in 2012 with Johnny Football but since have finished third once, fourth three times, fifth once and sixth twice.  We have finished first twice, second, third, fourth and fifth once each, and seventh twice.  Our lows are slightly lower but our highs much higher.

They've beaten Alabama once since joining the league (2012 with Manziel) and only twice in their history.  We've beaten Bama three times in the same span (which is as many times as the rest of the league combined since Gus arrived).

We've beaten them head to head 4 of the last 5.

 

If we're talking this year...

A&M got beat by 28 vs Alabama (and was down 35-14 at half), we lost by 29.  I'll give them props for the Florida win.  But I'll just give you my eyeball test:  

- Florida isn't a CFP caliber team in my mind and neither is A&M.

- The Aggies don't have any WRs that scare you, especially downfield and their running game is just ok.  They have a very good offensive line which has helped give Mond time to pass and Mond can do damage with his legs.  But it's a very up and down offense.

- Yes they blasted an SC team circling the drain, but struggled against LSU.  The offense managed only 13 points (the other TD was a pick six against LSU's freshman QB).

- The game is in Auburn where we play significantly better than on the road.

I think there's a better than even chance we beat them this weekend.

 

Right now, the main advantage A&M has and it's one they have on almost everyone - they have a ton of money.  That could pay off at some point for them.  But right now overall, they're still a notch down from us even with our issues.

 

 

[TitanTiger 20,471]

7 hours ago, AUBourne said:

 Auburn just wants to do enough to make a bowl and cash in the profits.  There is no other reason why Gus Malzahan will get a 9th year.  South Carolina demonstrates a greater desire for excellence. They prove it through actions. They actually have a football only facility and didn't hesitate to fire a coach that beat Gus this year.  Meanwhile the only consistent thing about Auburn football is 4 losses per year and TUF reminder emails. 

To be fair, if Muschamp were sitting at 5-3 right now with losses to #1 Alabama and #9 UGA and one game they shouldn't have lost, he'd still be there.  He got fired because they were 2-5 and getting hammered and haven't sniffed a division title in 5 years.

[DAG 33,955]

6 hours ago, AUFriction said:

That contributed to it, but Sexton wouldn't have had the opening unless Arkansas expressed interest. In fact, Arkansas gave an outlandish counter offer to sign Gus, and we countered again to keep him. The ineptness was in the administration not in believing a "false" report over Arkansas's interest. It was in not calling his bluff. Gus didn't want to go to Arkansas. He was never planning to bail. The program was in bad shape at the time, and I've always gotten the impression he was bitter over how the Houston Nutt stuff ended. But Arkansas's legitimate desire for Gus gave Sexton a way to push for an extension and a big buyout. Had Arkansas not expressed a very large interest in signing him, he wouldn't have gotten extension. If the president had just said, "You want to take over that program that Bielema ran into the ground? Okay. Leave if you feel like leaving," Gus would've stayed without an extension. 

It isn't just Arkansas by the way. I have a lot of friends in the midwest that are friends of Michigan, Michigan State, and Wisconsin. They all think our fan base is nuts over wanting rid of Gus, and some of them (especially the Michigan fans) actually want him BADLY. 

I LIVE in the midwest and currently  WISCONSIN, going to Madison for Psych NP. You are fool of sh!t. I also lived in MICHIGAN and came close to doing CRNA school for the big blue. I have not met a single person from any of those states who said they want Gus and I walk around with my Auburn gear all the time. So you are either lying or you have a buddy or two, who thinks that. They all want Urban Meyer right now. Another big name is Matt Campbell, Bob Stoops or the DC for Clemson. Those are the main names I hear. 

[DAG 33,955]

5 hours ago, Never2Yield said:

Stop lying! 🤥 

He is definitely not being fully truthful or exaggerating for sure. Most up here don't even care about Auburn or the Iron bowl for that matter to think that.  I had an Auburn shirt on yesterday and many of them were asking do we play today and against whom. Prominent part of Wisconsin too.

[abw0004 10,104]

Did you guys/gals get any sleep last night?  😂

[aucom96 1,614]

We have seen what this coaching staff can do. It’s not getting better. Right now he’s surviving on turnover and turmoil for most of the SEC. The other big programs will get on track. Gus is Gus. We may wait out that ludicrous buyout, but it’s going to be some pretty lackluster years in between. And as ugly a style of football as he coaches, that isn’t going to do much for viewers.

[Notjeffco 13]

The maddening thing about the rivalry game Auburn vs bama. When Bama wins the mentality is ok good win, we were supposed to win it. Let's move on. 

When Auburn wins it's OMG greatest win EVAH! let's name it!!! Maybe Auburn should base the season on overall success rather than this one game.

With the benefit of 20 20 hindsight the 2017 win over UGA and Bama was the worst thing for the AU program long term. It got Gus the stupid ridiculous contract. 

[DAG 33,955]

7 minutes ago, Notjeffco said:

When Auburn wins it's OMG greatest win EVAH! let's name it!!! Maybe Auburn should base the season on overall success rather than this one game.

Yep and it is usually some low percentage play or several things that go awry for Bama to make it memorable. It is that little brother syndrome, unfortunately. 

[im4aual 486]

Yea, bama is awesome, they've beaten us one year in a row.  Also, anybody who thinks Auburn is a loser institution because of a football game needs to get some serious therapy.  Now, go back to complaining.

[aubearcat 2,132]

12 hours ago, Brad_ATX said:

Time out.  This is a loser mentality.  You know who else had similar disadvantages and was arguably worse than Auburn historically for the most part of a century?  Clemson.

In fact, let's stay closer to home.  How about Auburn basketball?  Certainly no reason to be power.  But here we are, a season removed from the Final Four and having back-to-back first round picks.

Point being, you go hire someone that sees these weaknesses as challenges.  Great programs stop making excuses and start finding answers.

☝🏻Spot freaking on. 

[aubaseball 2,583]

7 hours ago, AUFriction said:

Uhhhhh... That statement is fact. We renegotiated his contract because Arkansas wanted him BADLY. Included in that contract was Gus's desire for more job security. Thus, the large buyout was the result of Gus's agent saying, "if you won't give him a large buyout, Gus will be taking his services to Arkansas." He LITERALLY has the large buyout because someone else wanted him. There's no opinion to differ on. The statement above is an absolute fact. 

So, it’s just one school that wanted him? Not several.   And any person with any sense wouldn’t have done this before the season was over.     

The same people that hired a 5-19 coach did this contract.  That’s the problem!!! 

And it’s not an opinion, stats have clearly demonstrated that Gus is just an average coach.