Bo Nix vs Mac Jones

[murpjf88 506]

3 hours ago, Tigerpro2a said:

I fully agree minus Nick Marshall. I do not think Marshall regressed at all.

Nick Marshall had a stout offensive line, gene Chizik's offensive line. Back then, you knew the run was coming and you still couldn't stop it. I don't think NM ever developed into much of a passer, just enough to keep defenses honest.

[Zeek 16,615]

10 minutes ago, murpjf88 said:

Nick Marshall had a stout offensive line, gene Chizik's offensive line. Back then, you knew the run was coming and you still couldn't stop it. I don't think NM ever developed into much of a passer, just enough to keep defenses honest.

Check his stats he's one of the best passers we've ever had.

[Tigerpro2a 5,650]

1 hour ago, Zeek said:

Moreso the record was worse and our red zone problems began

I dont think Marshall regressed though. IIRC he had better stat in 2014. I think the Redzone issues all stemed from the NC game 2nd half and the legend of Beta Gus was born. He has coached scared for the most part every since.

[Tigerpro2a 5,650]

20 minutes ago, murpjf88 said:

Nick Marshall had a stout offensive line, gene Chizik's offensive line. Back then, you knew the run was coming and you still couldn't stop it. I don't think NM ever developed into much of a passer, just enough to keep defenses honest.

NM in my opinion is the most under appreciated QB in AU history. Kid had a rocket of an arm, was a leader, and a straight up winner.

[Dual-Threat Rigby 8,641]

9 hours ago, Malcolm_FleX48 said:

Balls aren't put in good places for our speed threats to get YAC,

Talked about this elsewhere...even here I think. People ignore ball placement so much when they're praising this guy. Mac has a ton of easy throws...easy throws don't result in the amount of deep gainers and TDs he gets without consistently great ball placement. The play to I believe Shedrick Jackson where he got 37 yards...he wasn't even looked at in the open field when he broke past the LoS. Guy has to spin, catch, and keep going. We're still marveling TO THIS DAY that the kid can hit an open Schwartz in stride. That's not a good thing!

[Dual-Threat Rigby 8,641]

20 hours ago, around4ever said:

You’re not wrong but good coaches will coach the bad habits out of their QBs.  We’re almost two full seasons into the Bo era and we’re still seeing the same things we saw in game one. IMO, that is lack of fundamentals coaching. 

I don't think this is always a constant, although it's fair for quite a many situations. Sometimes good coaches, esp on this level, just have to deal with their QB's failures and scheme around that. Gus had to do that quite a few times from 2014 and before. Freeze is doing it with Willis and did it with Bo Wallace, amongst a few names between those two. Kiffin has done it at every stop, seemingly. 

Jalen Hurts is the shining example that some guys have some issues that plague them from start to finish, yet they're still top end QBs. I think Bo has gotten a scheme that's largely hid his issues. More and more simple crossers, more quick RPO passes to slot WRs/TEs in the flat (to play both sides, some of those have been detrimental). I don't think Chad has been anything close to perfect, but I think he's done what he could to work around Bo's mental and foot work lapses

[murpjf88 506]

33 minutes ago, Tigerpro2a said:

NM in my opinion is the most under appreciated QB in AU history. Kid had a rocket of an arm, was a leader, and a straight up winner.

I don't think he was under appreciated at all. He was a straight up baller. But why did he enter the NFL draft as a cornerback?

[Tigerpro2a 5,650]

17 minutes ago, murpjf88 said:

I don't think he was under appreciated at all. He was a straight up baller. But why did he enter the NFL draft as a cornerback?

He was very under appreciated when he was here. Fans clamored over JJ #6 and couldn't wait until JJ was starting when we had a "real" QB. Not all, but many felt that way at least.

I can say myself I didn't appreciate him like I do now. 

[Tigerpro2a 5,650]

50 minutes ago, Dual-Threat Rigby said:

Talked about this elsewhere...even here I think. People ignore ball placement so much when they're praising this guy. Mac has a ton of easy throws...easy throws don't result in the amount of deep gainers and TDs he gets without consistently great ball placement. The play to I believe Shedrick Jackson where he got 37 yards...he wasn't even looked at in the open field when he broke past the LoS. Guy has to spin, catch, and keep going. We're still marveling TO THIS DAY that the kid can hit an open Schwartz in stride. That's not a good thing!

Yes. Shed should have scored on that. Instead Bo throws a rope when there was nobody within 10 yards of him....and Shed has to spin and nearly stumble to make the catch.  The throw to Seth on the seem a little earlier I believe that bounced off SW's finger tips would have likely been a TD had Bo placed the ball where it needed to be. The guy covering Seth was on his way to the ground by the time ball got there and holding on to Seth's Tee Shirt. 

Honestly, aftter rewatching the game for 2nd time. I think that Bo is a big part of the reason we got blown out. If those two passes alone were where they should have been...its now 42-27. If Seth doesn't drop the other TD...42-33. I mean that score isn't a certain, but you get the point. It could have changed the whole dynamic of the game. 

Home Bo has won us a couple of games. I would give Bo a lot of the credit for the win against Bama last year. He made 3-4 throws in that game that had he not been perfect on the throw, we don't win. On the same hand, Bo has lost us a few games as well.

[AUApostle 7,648]

17 minutes ago, Tigerpro2a said:

Honestly, aftter rewatching the game for 2nd time. I think that Bo is a big part of the reason we got blown out. If those two passes alone were where they should have been...its now 42-27. If Seth doesn't drop the other TD...42-33. I mean that score isn't a certain, but you get the point. It could have changed the whole dynamic of the game. 

I viewed those two throws a little differently (a more athletic WR turns Shed's catch into a TD and I feel like the jersey grab on Seth hurt his chances to pull in the high ball)  But I agree that a few more plays earlier in the game is critical to setting the tone...a closer score keeps players more focused and coaches/players tend to gamble less. Those early PI and holding calls were huge to setting that tone, too.

[AUApostle 7,648]

51 minutes ago, murpjf88 said:

I don't think he was under appreciated at all. He was a straight up baller. But why did he enter the NFL draft as a cornerback?

I remember an insider, maybe it was WDE, warning certain posters (clamoring for JJ) that they would be sorry when NM graduated.

[Randman5000 4,224]

4 hours ago, cole256 said:

That's definitely not true. I was in an argument for two or three days with multiple people about it. I was literally confused because I was thinking why would you not want it. Why would you argue against that. 

It's true. Everyone flipped out when he threw it against Georgia. 

I've been saying it since Sean White was here and Nick so Gus could play JJ. I saw potential in MW in the A-day game. Rhett must have been running the O then.

[DAG 33,955]

I get that Seth and some of our WRs need to catch the ball, but it truly ticks me off when they have to change their trajectory to make a simple catch. Again, it is doing the simple things. That is what Mac does so well. I legit saw a poster call out Eli Stove of everyone for not going up field when most of his passes are behind the line of scrimmage and rarely at a point where he can just catch and go. 

[autan 737]

95% of the bashing is directed to Bo and Gus. If we could just get rid of both of them AU would easily win a NC. It's so obvious why can't the PTB see this simple solution. Seriously though Bo does continue to make the same mistake. With a blitz he runs right or left or both rather than stepping up in pocket or running straight down the field. He is very elusive but wears himself out with all that extra scrambling that usually ends with negative results. Truth is Tide has a better player at every position not just QB. Most glaring difference is LBs. Our undersized guys cannot tackle a quality SEC back in the open field one on one. Either a wave or get dragged for 5 to ten yards. And even with their size they also seem a step slow. We could all go down the line position by position. Our 3* players can't beat their 5* players.  And sadly our two 5* are playing more like 3*

[cole256 17,039]

9 hours ago, Randman5000 said:

It's true. Everyone flipped out when he threw it against Georgia. 

I've been saying it since Sean White was here and Nick so Gus could play JJ. I saw potential in MW in the A-day game. Rhett must have been running the O then.

No then it means you did but the fact so many argued it can't be everybody

[cole256 17,039]

8 hours ago, DAG said:

I get our Seth and some of our WRs need to catch the ball, but it truly ticks me off when they have to change their trajectory to make a simple catch. Again, it is doing the simple things. That is what Mac does so well. I legit saw a poster call out Eli Stove of everyone for not going up field when most of his passes are behind the line of scrimmage and rarely at a point where he can just catch and go. 

Seth has to make EVERY catch to hold himself to a standard as far as where he wants to go....but if you did a ratio to how many big catches and td's he's turned bad throws into big plays an Auburn fan would be an idiot to say they don't want him to play or if they suggested he holds the QB back

[Malcolm_FleX48 1,869]

1 hour ago, cole256 said:

Seth has to make EVERY catch to hold himself to a standard as far as where he wants to go....but if you did a ratio to how many big catches and td's he's turned bad throws into big plays an Auburn fan would be an idiot to say they don't want him to play or if they suggested he holds the QB back

Yup...

Its a large part of why WRs get frustrated with their QBs. I remember when I was playing for Jacksonville, I wasn't the best of the TEs when it came to catching, but my rate of catching a pass went up dramatically when the QB (Eli) could throw to a spot with the RIGHT AMOUNT of force. Not every pass should be a laser because sometimes, when you're running a specific route (Especially deep) you've already committed your body and stride to a specific pace or angle to beat the DB and put in him a trail position where he isn't going to be able to recover and make a play on the ball at the top of your route. If you do ALL OF THIS and then have to suddenly make a catch on a ball thrown below, low, or too far off of your center mass, then you lost all chances of getting any YAC.

Our WRs usually go on to be great WRs in the league because we realize that they've spent their entire careers with us catching terribly placed balls and then they get competent passes that aren't just "Heaters" that go fast and are unnecessarily hard to catch or prayers 50/50 balls. 

Seth is probably a transcendent WR talent that we'll see be the next Julio in the league (Possibly) but I think that there is a large amount of frustration with the disproportionate amount of effort he has to put into making catchable balls which is what leads to him quitting on certain routes because he has seen it time and time again. That just seems to be the most obvious answer because he has always fought hard and played hurt and done many selfless things for the team so I can't subscribe to the notion that he is a selfish player that some fans have cooked up. He blocks his butt off normally, runs the chase off routes well, and shows up in big moments. That points to some other underlying frustrations.  

[AUApostle 7,648]

9 minutes ago, Malcolm_FleX48 said:

Yup...

Its a large part of why WRs get frustrated with their QBs. I remember when I was playing for Jacksonville, I wasn't the best of the TEs when it came to catching, but my rate of catching a pass went up dramatically when the QB (Eli) could throw to a spot with the RIGHT AMOUNT of force. Not every pass should be a laser because sometimes, when you're running a specific route (Especially deep) you've already committed your body and stride to a specific pace or angle to beat the DB and put in him a trail position where he isn't going to be able to recover and make a play on the ball at the top of your route. If you do ALL OF THIS and then have to suddenly make a catch on a ball thrown below, low, or too far off of your center mass, then you lost all chances of getting any YAC.

Our WRs usually go on to be great WRs in the league because we realize that they've spent their entire careers with us catching terribly placed balls and then they get competent passes that aren't just "Heaters" that go fast and are unnecessarily hard to catch or prayers 50/50 balls. 

Seth is probably a transcendent WR talent that we'll see be the next Julio in the league (Possibly) but I think that there is a large amount of frustration with the disproportionate amount of effort he has to put into making catchable balls which is what leads to him quitting on certain routes because he has seen it time and time again. That just seems to be the most obvious answer because he has always fought hard and played hurt and done many selfless things for the team so I can't subscribe to the notion that he is a selfish player that some fans have cooked up. He blocks his butt off normally, runs the chase off routes well, and shows up in big moments. That points to some other underlying frustrations.  

Sounds like we have a chain reaction that traces back to the OL's ability to pass-block.

[cole256 17,039]

1 minute ago, AUDevil said:

Sounds like we have a chain reaction that traces back to the OL's ability to pass-block.

Lol you still on that. They're not all sec but the o line hasn't been something to complain about more than any other position. After the uga game they haven't been horrible

[Malcolm_FleX48 1,869]

Just now, AUDevil said:

Sounds like we have a chain reaction that traces back to the OL's ability to pass-block.

No disagreement there, but that becomes a part of a chain reaction when you can't get big and athletic offensive linemen to come to your school because you've pissed away most of your offensive weaponry and became a farce of a "powerhouse" team. 

Auburn's displays on offense turn off OL recruits who would like to and have the option to play for more offensively competent teams. 

You can always get a big and strong OL that can run block, but finding those gems with athletic talent that can actually move backwards with strength and agility against elite pass rushers is something exclusive to only the best of teams because its coveted so heavily. Either that or you better have a technical savant coaching your OL and putting them all in Yoga and using other training methods. (Not likely).

Basically, because Auburn continues to look like a joke on offense with the "weapons" that we do have, we can't hope for the OL recruits that we want. Offensive Linemen already don't get much glory, the least they want to do is be a part of a decent offense so they don't look like complete jokes when they take the field...

[cole256 17,039]

2 minutes ago, Malcolm_FleX48 said:

No disagreement there, but that becomes a part of a chain reaction when you can't get big and athletic offensive linemen to come to your school because you've pissed away most of your offensive weaponry and became a farce of a "powerhouse" team. 

Auburn's displays on offense turn off OL recruits who would like to and have the option to play for more offensively competent teams. 

You can always get a big and strong OL that can run block, but finding those gems with athletic talent that can actually move backwards with strength and agility against elite pass rushers is something exclusive to only the best of teams because its coveted so heavily. Either that or you better have a technical savant coaching your OL and putting them all in Yoga and using other training methods. (Not likely).

Basically, because Auburn continues to look like a joke on offense with the "weapons" that we do have, we can't hope for the OL recruits that we want. Offensive Linemen already don't get much glory, the least they want to do is be a part of a decent offense so they don't look like complete jokes when they take the field...

I think they probably just go for a type stupidly like we always been a small wr in the slot or how we really got it figured out to use small d linemen and linebackers....I'll argue it until I'm blue in the face that was the beginning of our downfall, we wouldn't let jumbo athletes play where they wanted....when Rolando mcclain Conte Hightower and that other big cat that was from the auburn area came out back to back to back. They wanted linebacker we wanted them at d end. They wanted d end we wanted tackle. They wanted safety we wanted linebacker. 

[Malcolm_FleX48 1,869]

11 minutes ago, cole256 said:

I think they probably just go for a type stupidly like we always been a small wr in the slot or how we really got it figured out to use small d linemen and linebackers....I'll argue it until I'm blue in the face that was the beginning of our downfall, we wouldn't let jumbo athletes play where they wanted....when Rolando mcclain Conte Hightower and that other big cat that was from the auburn area came out back to back to back. They wanted linebacker we wanted them at d end. They wanted d end we wanted tackle. They wanted safety we wanted linebacker. 

Yeah, this is a problem too. Even when I was walking on during the year where Muschamp was here, I wanted to be an ILB, but the main one pining to have me on was Coach Garner. 

Its a problem sadly that comes from running a defensive system that's too conservative. Ask yourself when was the last time that we had a freak athlete playing all over the field as a hybrid like Isaiah Simmons or Jeremy Chinn? 

We would have taken them and placed them on the line 100% of the time instead of using their gifts in a unique manner. Auburn suffers from a lack of originality in scheming and personnel and it really hurts when you run this system and can't keep finding those traditional pieces that SPECIALIZE, year in and year out. 

Go out and mold your system to your personnel. Transition to a Hybrid-Nightmare defense where if you wanted, you could play 1 down lineman with several big bodies up around the line that could drop or rush. Have some TALL LINEBACKERS that be rangier in the middle of the field, make it harder to throw over them, and shed blocks like an end if need be. Get some length at corner while running 3 safeties with one being a tall eraser that can take away the jumbo slot and TIght end with no substitution necessary and make sure your SS is free to terrorize the middle of the field.

There is no reason that you can't take some 6'3 - 6'4 llghter OLBs and bulk them up (slightly) and allow them to play on the 2nd level and rush from that position in key situations as a blitzer that can get a preferable matchup with already engaged OL. Not every rusher needs to be able to rush from the edge, but at the very least if you want to only use 2 true LBs, slide into an eagle front with only one of your Do-It-All inside guys and have a 3rd safety in that's able to play in the slot. Its creativity.

That's how you have a perennially terrifying defensive unit. We have to take on athletically freaky projects that other teams shy away from because they DON'T specialize, and turn them into our hybrid weapons on D and O. 

I'm still mad about Joiner not being used. Think he was another MAR situation.

[Zeek 16,615]

2013 Nick Marshall

142 completions out of 239 attempts for a completion percentage of 59.4% with 8.3 yards per attempt

1,976 passing yards 14 passing touchdowns to 6 interceptions

143.2 QBR

172 rushing attempts for 1,068 yards for a 6.2 yards per carry with 12 rushing touchdowns

Also, one reception for 35 yards

Total: 3,079 yards 26 touchdowns

2014 Nick Marshall

178 completions out of 293 attempts for a completion percentage of 60.8% with 8.6 yards per attempt

2,532 passing yards 20 passing touchdowns 7 interceptions

153 rushing attempts for 798 yards for a 5.2 yards per carry with 11 rushing touchdowns

2 receptions for 16 yards receiving

Total: 3,346 yards 31 touchdowns

 

Auburn All Time Rankings:

12th most passing attempts

12 most passing completions

9th highest completion % for QBs with at least 100 attempts

9th most passing yards

3rd highest yards per attempt for QBs with at least 100 attempts

7th most passing touchdowns

3rd highest QBR

25th most rushing attempts (all players not just qb)

21st highest rushing yards (all players)

12th highest yards per carry (all players w/100+ attempts)

12th highest rushing tds (all players)

The guy is a legend

 

 

[Tigerpro2a 5,650]

2 hours ago, Malcolm_FleX48 said:

I'm still mad about Joiner not being used. Think he was another MAR situation.

As I was reading this the rest of your post, I was thinking this is the same problem on offense and H. Joiner came to mind. He could have been a freakishly tough weapon to defend against. Pigeon Holes players seem to be an AU specialty. I have never seen a team do it to the level that we have under this staff. 

As for MAR, With DJ hurt now and Tank already out...I thought MAR looked quite impressive in his touches last Saturday. They need to role with him this week if Tank can't go. He should get 10-15 meaningful carries IMO.

[Zeek 16,615]

1 minute ago, Tigerpro2a said:

As I was reading this the rest of your post, I was thinking this is the same problem on offense and H. Joiner came to mind. He could have been a freakishly tough weapon to defend against. Pigeon Holes players seem to be an AU specialty. I have never seen a team do it to the level that we have under this staff. 

As for MAR, With DJ hurt now and Tank already out...I thought MAR looked quite impressive in his touches last Saturday. They need to role with him this week if Tank can't go. He should get 10-15 meaningful carries IMO.

I don't get it. Our run game is dumb simple and half the time you see Bo correcting the running backs on what side they're supposed to be on for that play. The coaches claiming MAR didn't know the plays seems sus.