Ryan Pugh

[cole256 17,043]

Man I'm starting to get aggravated

[AUDub 11,147]

4 minutes ago, cole256 said:

Man I'm starting to get aggravated

It's not fair and it ******* sucks. For people like them and like me, we're on the outside looking in, and anyone telling you how YOU should feel about it is a ******* moron.

[homersapien 11,366]

2 hours ago, wdefromtx said:

Because he fails to see that racism can be a two way street. Is that good enough for you? 

No, you completely missed my point.

(Hint, you aren't traveling on the same street as Cole.)

[wdefromtx 3,159]

10 hours ago, cole256 said:

No because of the origin it's different which is why I asked you do you even know the history of it. Black people didn't oppress white people then because they didn't view them as a person they didn't do white face to exclude them then over time they did it just to keep a black person from being on set. So it's not the same

Now that I’ve had some time to get away from the stupidity of this thread and how some in here try to pick and choose what they think is racist or not. You want to take a hardline stance that all black face is racist, and to you nothing else such as white face can be solely because of the history. Well if you want to bring up a history from 180 years ago and things that happened over time you must be willing to accept that other races and/or mixed races have dealt with some of the same stuff. Let’s talk family history then, mine for example on my paternal side is technically mixed race. My greatx4 (don’t have our family tree in front of me so it may be x5) grandmother was a slave in Georgia. She was raped by her owner who was white. She gave birth to a son who mainly looked white. She and her son were purchased by a free born black man for $900 and they married and moved to a settlement in Indiana in the 1850’s. They ended up having more children. Anyways the white son was my greatx3 (or whatever) grandfather. Who essentially became an outcast within the family due to the notion by others in the settlement that he wasn’t “black enough.” So eventually left home once he was old enough. Married a white woman, had kids, then kids had kids etc. So I’m not sorry for taking offense to how you want to marginalize other peoples history or struggles solely based on skin color. That in itself is racist. 
 

Fast forward to some of my personal experiences growing up. I’ve had to deal with racism, bullying, etc in school from being one of the only white kids in the middle school. So yeah, I’ve dealt personally with some of that. But do I blame every black person for stuff they had nothing to do with? Hell no. 
 

I’m sure that many on here will just say it’s not the same so they can dismiss it. I realize my family history is the exception and not the norm, but that doesn’t make it less than anyone else’s situation. 
 

It’s not so much about the whiteface, as the hypocrisy and double standard people apply. Racism is racism, two wrongs don’t make a right. Picking and choosing what you think is more racist, is in fact very racist itself. 

[wdefromtx 3,159]

2 minutes ago, homersapien said:

No, you completely missed my point.

(Hint, you aren't traveling on the same street as Cole.)

You might want to read my response to Cole. Maybe not the same street exactly, but a block or two over in the same neighborhood. 

[AUDub 11,147]

17 minutes ago, wdefromtx said:

Now that I’ve had some time to get away from the stupidity of this thread and how some in here try to pick and choose what they think is racist or not. You want to take a hardline stance that all black face is racist, and to you nothing else such as white face can be solely because of the history. Well if you want to bring up a history from 180 years ago and things that happened over time you must be willing to accept that other races and/or mixed races have dealt with some of the same stuff. Let’s talk family history then, mine for example on my paternal side is technically mixed race. My greatx4 (don’t have our family tree in front of me so it may be x5) grandmother was a slave in Georgia. She was raped by her owner who was white. She gave birth to a son who mainly looked white. She and her son were purchased by a free born black man for $900 and they married and moved to a settlement in Indians in the 1850’s. They ended up have more children. Anyways the white son was my greatx3 (or whatever) grandfather. Who essentially became an outcast within the family due to the notion by others in the settlement that he wasn’t “black enough.” So eventually left home once he was old enough. Married a white woman, had kids, then kids had kids etc. So I’m not sorry for taking offense to how you want to marginalize other peoples history or struggles solely based on skin color. That in itself is racist. 

This is hardly a unique situation.

In truth, the concept of "race" down in the south is very much socially constructed. Most down here are a mishmash. Seriously, you'd be shocked at the number of people that are in for a shock upon genetic testing, particularly among the racists! There are a **** ton of "white" folks with black ancestors and vice versa. Hell, I'm a quarter Poarch Creek via my mom's mom (you would never know by looking at me) and I wouldn't be entirely surprised to find a "black" ancestor either if I ever deigned to look deep enough.

Quote

Fast forward to some of my personal experiences growing up. I’ve had to deal with racism, bullying, etc in school from being one of the only white kids in the middle school. So yeah, I’ve dealt personally with some of that. But do I blame every black person for stuff they had nothing to do with? Hell no.

I mean, join the club. For a time my older brother was the only white kid on the basketball team at Ramsey here in Birmingham lol.

My parents white flighted us out of East Lake to the burbs.  

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I’m sure that many on here will just say it’s not the same so they can dismiss it. I realize my family history is the exception and not the norm, but that doesn’t make it less than anyone else’s situation. 

You're in for a rude awakening with regard to your situation being in any way exceptional.

Quote

It’s not so much about the whiteface, as the hypocrisy and double standard people apply. Racism is racism, two wrongs don’t make a right. Picking and choosing what you think is more racist, is in fact very racist itself. 

There's a societal power component you're ignoring.

Do you know the origin of the term "Jim Crow?"

[AUDub 11,147]

This thread, guys.

I get that this may come off as a foreign concept to some, but Cole isn't far removed from family that weren't allowed to use certain restrooms, enter through certain doors, eat in certain diners or ride the bus in certain seats. He probably has relatives that either could or did tell him of those times.

For him, this is not likely to be an abstract concept, something on which he's on the outside looking in like in. We've only just past half a century removed from de jure segregation, Jim Crow.

55 minutes ago, wdefromtx said:

It’s not so much about the whiteface, as the hypocrisy and double standard people apply. Racism is racism, two wrongs don’t make a right. Picking and choosing what you think is more racist, is in fact very racist itself. 

This is where I think you're being a bit haughty. It's not necessarily a matter of degrees, but of differing definitions. 

https://www.ferris.edu/HTMLS/news/jimcrow/question/2009/march.htm

Quote

I will try to focus my rant. Can blacks be racist? The answer, of course, will depend on how you define racism. If you define it as “prejudice against or hatred toward another race,” then the answer is yes. If you define racism as “the belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race,” the answer is yes. And if you define racism as “prejudice and discrimination rooted in race-based loathing,” then the answer is, again, yes. However, if you define racism as “a system of group privilege by those who have a disproportionate share of society’s power, prestige, property, and privilege,” then the answer is no. In the end, it is my opinion that individual blacks can be and sometimes are racists. However, collectively, blacks are neither the primary creators nor beneficiaries of the racism that permeates society today.

 

[DKW 86 7,419]

Cole I apologize, seems half the board went full blown MAGA overnite.

[DKW 86 7,419]

10 hours ago, AUDub said:

His constituents did have a lot of say in that.

My biggest beef at the time was "how in the hell did Gillespie fail so badly at opposition research" lol.

THAT is a 100% Valid Point. My .02 take. Gillespie had something as bad or worse hanging in the closet too. Just a gut feeling on my part, I have no evidence. But I have been involved closely enough in campaigns to know you dont inflict damage on yourself or draw attention to something someone else might find. 

[TitanTiger 20,472]

I'll just give my perspective on this.  I believe all of these things can be true:

• Ryan Pugh should have known doing blackface is something you do not do, even back in 2010.  Even if he didn't fully understand why you don't do it, it's something he shouldn't have been completely ignorant of.  There's no way a kid that didn't grow up on a deserted island didn't know there was at the very least "racial controversy" around the blackface thing.

• Ryan Pugh was also a teenager and teenagers sometimes do stupid things without thinking them through.

• Doing blackface is a racially insensitive and offensive act.

• Ryan didn't wear blackface that night with the conscious intent to offend black people.

• Ryan committed a racially offensive act, but is not at his core a racist person.

And that last point I guess is the real question:  Can a person do something that is offensive or insensitive on a racial level and not be a "racist?"  I guess it's sort of like asking if someone can tell a lie one time and not be considered a "liar."  In other words, should we look at things in terms of degrees or evidence of a pattern before applying such labels?

People are complicated creatures.  They sometimes don't connect all the dots of the things they think, do or say.  I think all of us have vestiges of attitudes and ways of looking at the world that are wrong, out of step, based in ignorance.  We're all blinded by pride, blinded by upbringing.  We all prejudge others based on past experiences with individuals and what our parents and peers taught us.  We all need to grow, mature, and correct course.  We all need to listen to people who are outside our groups and believe them when they tell us things about their experiences and how certain things we do are perceived.

As far as Ryan goes, something he did a decade ago as a teenager shouldn't necessarily be the last word on him for the rest of his life.  He did something offensive and stupid.  It is not unfair to him that he be called to account for it, explain himself, and apologize publicly.  

That said, Baylor is a place that can't afford to misstep in the hiring of any coaches right now.  After the Briles era, everyone has to be squeaky clean to whatever extent Baylor can find such things out.  That is why this photo made Pugh radioactive.  Maybe another place could have dug deeper, talked to former players about how he's been since that photo was taken.  Another school could have stuck with the hire and allowed him the chance to address the issue, maybe even taken a vote of the players to determine whether they accepted his apology and could have him as their coach, but not Baylor.  To not understand this and rail against it is to live outside of reality.

Finally, let me reiterate:  doing blackface is stupid and wrong.  It is racially offensive.  It's a racist act.  It is not the same as doing whiteface (which honestly isn't a thing) for the same kinds of reasons that saying the n-word is not the same as calling someone a honky or cracker.  History matters.  To blithely act as if these things sprung forth from a vacuum with no backstory or on going societal power structures attached to them is to be willfully ignorant and stubborn.   

[GoAU 1,600]

I guess I’ll just stand by my point that it’s more than slightly hypocritical to complain about racism, while holding double standards based on race.   The easiest way to equality is to have equality on the way there.

Regardless of which “side” of this debate people are on, when you go through life looking for things to be offended about, don’t be surprised when you end up offended.  
 

I wish all of my Auburn brothers and sisters on this board a good day.  

[homersapien 11,366]

8 minutes ago, GoAU said:

I guess I’ll just stand by my point that it’s more than slightly hypocritical to complain about racism, while holding double standards based on race.   The easiest way to equality is to have equality on the way there.

Regardless of which “side” of this fdebate people are on, when you go through life looking for things to be offended about, don’t be surprised when you end up offended.  
 

I wish all of my Auburn brothers and sisters on this board a good day.  

There's no need for black people to "look" for things to be offended by in this country.  Those things present themselves to black people almost on a daily basis.

You cannot simply declare a "reset" of a culture based on 400 years of history and declare, OK we are all starting now in an equal place. 

[GoAU 1,600]

46 minutes ago, homersapien said:

There's no need for black people to "look" for things to be offended by in this country.  Those things present themselves to black people almost on a daily basis.

You cannot simply declare a "reset" of a culture based on 400 years of history and declare, OK we are all starting now in an equal place. 

This is a true statement.  There are also no shortage of things that can offend me on a daily basis as well should I choose to let them.  Any and everyone can find something current or in the past to get their undergarments in a bind about.  The fact is the past cannot be changed - we can only move forward.  Allowing yourself to slide into this only holds you back   

I am not “declaring” anything, just pointing out that fighting racism with more racism seems silly.  

[homersapien 11,366]

37 minutes ago, GoAU said:

This is a true statement.  There are also no shortage of things that can offend me on a daily basis as well should I choose to let them.  Any and everyone can find something current or in the past to get their undergarments in a bind about.  The fact is the past cannot be changed - we can only move forward.  Allowing yourself to slide into this only holds you back   

I am not “declaring” anything, just pointing out that fighting racism with more racism seems silly.  

Things that are outside of your control such as your race or appearance?

[GoAU 1,600]

15 minutes ago, homersapien said:

Things that our outisde of your control such as your race or appearance?

Yes and other things as well

[homersapien 11,366]

19 minutes ago, GoAU said:

Yes and other things as well

On a daily basis? 

You are either a very sensitive person or maybe need to look at changing your habits/lifestyle or appearance. (I am assuming you aren't black.)

[GoAU 1,600]

25 minutes ago, homersapien said:

On a daily basis? 

You are either a very sensitive person or maybe need to look at changing your habits/lifestyle or appearance. (I am assuming you aren't black.)

You must have missed the entire “should I chose to let them” part.  I am not overly sensitive, but I do think there is no shortage of those who are.  You know the type, people that make assumptions to justify preconceived notions, stereotype others, and love to ring the “victim bell” to push an agenda rather than following the words of MLK and judging a man based on the content of his character rather than the color of his skin.   
 

All I have said is the same standards of acceptable conduct should be evenly applied to all.  

[cole256 17,043]

3 hours ago, GoAU said:

You must have missed the entire “should I chose to let them” part.  I am not overly sensitive, but I do think there is no shortage of those who are.  You know the type, people that make assumptions to justify preconceived notions, stereotype others, and love to ring the “victim bell” to push an agenda rather than following the words of MLK and judging a man based on the content of his character rather than the color of his skin.   
 

All I have said is the same standards of acceptable conduct should be evenly applied to all.  

That's the typical response. A black person wants equality or respect or anything like that they are being victims, they do something to demand it then they are thugs

Hilarious

[GoAU 1,600]

1 hour ago, cole256 said:

That's the typical response. A black person wants equality or respect or anything like that they are being victims, they do something to demand it then they are thugs

Hilarious

When or where did I deny anyone equality or respect?  Contrary, I said everyone should be treated with equality and respect.   Others seem to be applying  double sIandards based on race or anything else.   I never said anything about anyone being a thug either.  I’d appreciate not having words that i didn’t say applied to me.   Thanks.  

[cole256 17,043]

35 minutes ago, GoAU said:

When or where did I deny anyone equality or respect?  Contrary, I said everyone should be treated with equality and respect.   Others seem to be applying  double sIandards based on race or anything else.   I never said anything about anyone being a thug either.  I’d appreciate not having words that i didn’t say applied to me.   Thanks.  

Cool when you find the post where I said you said those things please let me know. You're welcome

[cole256 17,043]

22 hours ago, AUDub said:

Hell, we've had guys here that went off on Cole over being called "dude."

Believe it or not he has stated up again on me lately and he's told some pretty pointless lies and have been calling for mods.....the lie he told would be pretty easy for a mod to see, I don't know what his plan is yet unless he's just very stupid and don't think a mod will be able to figure his stuff out

[homersapien 11,366]

5 hours ago, GoAU said:

You must have missed the entire “should I chose to let them” part.  I am not overly sensitive, but I do think there is no shortage of those who are.  You know the type, people that make assumptions to justify preconceived notions, stereotype others, and love to ring the “victim bell” to push an agenda rather than following the words of MLK and judging a man based on the content of his character rather than the color of his skin.   
 

All I have said is the same standards of acceptable conduct should be evenly applied to all.  g

I am just curious to what sort of things might be offensive to a white man - on a daily basis - would be equivalent to the sort of things that might be offensive to a black man - on a daily basis.  

I am white man, and I can't imagine making that comparison.  Of course, beyond quantity, there's the quality of the offensive act.

Would you - for example - "let" an unwarranted traffic stop offend you?  How about several?

 

[GoAU 1,600]

1 hour ago, cole256 said:

Cool when you find the post where I said you said those things please let me know. You're welcome

Maybe I misunderstood you.  When you posted this:

“That's the typical response. A black person wants equality or respect or anything like that they are being victims, they do something to demand it then they are thugs”

Right under my post I was under the impression the response was directed at me.  If not - no harm, no foul.  

[cole256 17,043]

Just now, GoAU said:

Maybe I misunderstood you.  When you posted this

 

That's the typical response. A black person wants equality or respect or anything like that they are being victims, they do something to demand it then they are thugs

Right under my post I was under the impression the response was directed at me.  If not - no harm, no foul.  

I'm talking to you but I didn't say you said that. I'm saying when you say stuff like being a victim you line yourself up to sound like that

[GoAU 1,600]

1 minute ago, cole256 said:

I'm talking to you but I didn't say you said that. I'm saying when you say stuff like being a victim you line yourself up to sound like that

All I’ve been saying the entire time is to treat everyone with equality and respect, and that double standards, based on race or anything else just perpetuate more racism.