Ryan Pugh

[cole256 17,039]

7 minutes ago, wdefromtx said:

Hence my question to Cole was if it is derogatory no matter what, whiteface should be unacceptable too right? 

No because of the origin it's different which is why I asked you do you even know the history of it. Black people didn't oppress white people then because they didn't view them as a person they didn't do white face to exclude them then over time they did it just to keep a black person from being on set. So it's not the same

[jAUSon 2,836]

Good for you Cole. Ditto.

[Tigerbelle 5,299]

Just now, wdefromtx said:

Hence my question to Cole was if it is derogatory no matter what, whiteface should be unacceptable too right? 

Whiteface has not been used in the same demeaning way because white people IN THE UNITED STATES are and have been the ones in power. We are not the ones in the past who suffered as  slaves and whites have not been oppressed. And I'm speaking in HISTORICAL CONTEXT....CONTEXT is usually overlooked in this forum. It is a matter of respect and dignity, and seeing people of other races as equal to, and as worthy, as your own race. There's no way whiteface would ever have that same CONTEXT because history for whites was not filled with the humiliation and pain that blacks and Native Americans suffered at the hands of white people. It is just never going to be as fraught with racist overtones because the past is different.

Not sure why you would find that a concept that even needed to be explained but here we are....

 

[metafour 4,958]

55 minutes ago, cole256 said:

You may not feel like I countered what you said but I feel like I did that and then more. But what I really don't understand is you talking about one person and trying to use that as to say this black face thing wasn't from an evil place. There was nothing that I said that can be disputed either. So the origins was to exclude, to make fun of, to humiliate, even used by the kkk to recruit and you're saying because this man did it you can't really be offended? And are you suggesting that Pugh was thinking about Al Jolson.

No, all I ever said was that the history of blackface was "dicey at best" because you took a dogmatic stance on it being "absolutely racist" and stated that if one disagreed that they didn't understand the history - and I proved to you why that was a fallacious conclusion. I even outright told you that there was quite obviously racist examples of blackface, so I'm not disagreeing with anything. But if I can point out to you even ONE example of how it was a complicated form of "entertainment", then that obviously can't make your statement true. And Al Jolson wasn't some no-name blackface performer who no one even knew; he was the MOST POPULAR performer in America. So really, the most popular and successful blackface performer was in fact doing his performance out of good intentions, and his act empowered black performers for decades to come. You also don't get to rewrite history and go back in time and speak on behalf of the tens of thousands of black Americans who were in outright SUPPORT of him dressing up in blackface and doing his performances. If you want to talk about racism seriously, then you also need to accept some hard truths.

I never claimed that Ryan Pugh was doing some grand civil service by dressing up as Reggie Bush. He certainly did something unacceptable and is now paying the price for it, which is completely warranted. The point I'm trying to make is that it's much more likely that his stupid Halloween costume was just that: a stupid Halloween costume, and nothing more. Have there been any other recollections of racist behavior from him from the black players who played under him at Troy? What about his black former teammates at Auburn?

[wdefromtx 3,159]

3 minutes ago, Tigerbelle said:

Whiteface has not been used in the same demeaning way because white people IN THE UNITED STATES are and have been the ones in power. We are not the ones in the past who suffered as  slaves and whites have not been oppressed. And I'm speaking in HISTORICAL CONTEXT....CONTEXT is usually overlooked in this forum. It is a matter of respect and dignity, and seeing people of other races as equal to, and as worthy, as your own race. There's no way whiteface would ever have that same CONTEXT because history for whites was not filled with the humiliation and pain that blacks and Native Americans suffered at the hands of white people. It is just never going to be as fraught with racist overtones because the past is different.

Not sure why you would find that a concept that even needed to be explained but here we are....

 

 

 

4 minutes ago, cole256 said:

No because of the origin it's different which is why I asked you do you even know the history of it. Black people didn't oppress white people then because they didn't view them as a person they didn't do white face to exclude them then over time they did it just to keep a black person from being on set. So it's not the same

Got it sooooooo, Jimmy Fallon and Robert Downey Junior are racist as well as other actors. 

[AUght2win 6,818]

2 minutes ago, wdefromtx said:

Robert Downey Junior are racist as well as other actors. 

Man you guys apply no critical thinking to anything. RDJ in Tropic Thunder was a comedy MAKING FUN of blackface and how out of touch/insane RDJ's character was. 

[metafour 4,958]

Just now, AUght2win said:

Man you guys apply no critical thinking to anything. RDJ in Tropic Thunder was a comedy MAKING FUN of blackface and how out of touch/insane RDJ's character was. 

Now prove to me that Ryan Pugh wasn't doing the same thing. Are you certain that perhaps he wasn't trying to deliver the same exact message as RDJ?

[jAUSon 2,836]

Anyway. I'm not even about this argument. Too toxic. Pugh is gonna be hard if not impossible to hire and that's his fault. If I were an AD, I wouldn't hire him. I don't know if he's a racist or if he was ignorant and trying his best to look like Reggie. I wasn't there. Refusing to hire the guy seems about right for the times. Slashing around on the www and painting people as a racist with a huge ass broad brush aint right. Never did see a yes or no answer if Ryan Pugh is a racist. I never met the guy. The dudes at Troy love him, it seems.

 

[McLoofus 35,182]

9 minutes ago, cole256 said:

No because of the origin it's different which is why I asked you do you even know the history of it. Black people didn't oppress white people then because they didn't view them as a person they didn't do white face to exclude them then over time they did it just to keep a black person from being on set. So it's not the same

Dude, at this point you know you might as well be talking to a particularly obnoxious doorknob. If anyone needs that explained to them then they're truly hopeless. But I can speak from experience that that dude is only here to stir up s***. He doesn't actually have a viewpoint on anything. It's why he almost exclusively trolls the political forum. 

[wdefromtx 3,159]

2 minutes ago, AUght2win said:

Man you guys apply no critical thinking to anything. RDJ in Tropic Thunder was a comedy MAKING FUN of blackface and how out of touch/insane RDJ's character was. 

Ummmmm that has been my whole point, but Cole and TB (and a few others) say it is racist or derogatory no matter what. I am actually the one saying intent matters. 

[cole256 17,039]

12 minutes ago, jAUSon said:

Good for you Cole. Ditto.

Cool. You came talking to me not the other way around. Just know when you talk to loof you're talking to me cuz we the same person. I know I'm your favorite poster

[Tigerbelle 5,299]

13 minutes ago, wdefromtx said:

 

 

Got it sooooooo, Jimmy Fallon and Robert Downey Junior are racist as well as other actors. 

Probably. Maybe just casual racists and ignorant about blackface. Being famous and rich doesn't relieve them of racism. And when somebody makes an apology that means they DID SOMETHING WRONG....so there is that. And also there's that CONTEXT thing....if an actor made a movie about the evils of racism....and a scene in that movie called for blackface to be used to depict an event like the shows people used to do in blackface.....that actor would not necessarily be a racist. He would be acting in a movie.  The intention would be much different. 

Again.....nothing difficult here. Blackface is racist because it is demeaning, disrespectful and hurtful. That's a well known fact in this day and age. It should not have to be explained again and again. Black people have told us over and over. That's all anyone needs to hear. Respect their feelings on the matter and don't do it. 

[AUght2win 6,818]

Aught2win's Simple Perspectives on this asinine thread:

1. Blackface is not appropriate. For a TON of reasons.

2. Doing something racially inappropriate doesn't always mean it has malicious intent. Sometimes it's just being disrespectful or having a blind spot.

3. Whether Ryan Pugh is fundamentally "racist" is unknowable and irrelevant. 

4. This is not a political issue.

5. Yes, double standards do exist. Yes, they are wrong. But Baylor has nothing to do with Justin Trudeau. Whataboutism is for children. 

6. Cancel culture is wrong. Forgiveness is right.

7. Baylor is running a business. Their business doesn't have to volunteer to be the platform for Ryan's reconciliation.

8. If you are dying on the hill of blackface, you likely live in a very small bubble. 

[cole256 17,039]

5 minutes ago, wdefromtx said:

Ummmmm that has been my whole point, but Cole and TB (and a few others) say it is racist or derogatory no matter what. I am actually the one saying intent matters. 

Lol. So dressing up black face to make fun of black face? Ok

[AUght2win 6,818]

11 minutes ago, metafour said:

Now prove to me that Ryan Pugh wasn't doing the same thing. Are you certain that perhaps he wasn't trying to deliver the same exact message as RDJ?

Hahahaha

[AUght2win 6,818]

8 minutes ago, wdefromtx said:

Ummmmm that has been my whole point, but Cole and TB (and a few others) say it is racist or derogatory no matter what. I am actually the one saying intent matters. 

Dressing up as a dude wearing a chain and a flatbill for a party is NOT what RDJ was doing. Pugh was not being ironic. And how do I know? Because it's beyond a reasonable doubt. There's no logical argument to make that says Pugh's blackface was railing against blackface. C'mon.

[cole256 17,039]

11 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

Dude, at this point you know you might as well be talking to a particularly obnoxious doorknob. If anyone needs that explained to them then they're truly hopeless. But I can speak from experience that that dude is only here to stir up s***. He doesn't actually have a viewpoint on anything. It's why he almost exclusively trolls the political f

Bro. Some guys will go out of their way to make racist stuff not me racist.....and I'm the black guy lol

[AUDub 11,131]

Just now, cole256 said:

Bro. Some guys will go out of their way to make racist stuff not me racist.....and I'm the black guy lol

Can only imagine the chuckles you're getting out of reading these feeble defenses of the indefensible, Cole. 

[AUght2win 6,818]

5 minutes ago, Tigerbelle said:

Probably. Maybe just casual racists and ignorant about blackface. Being famous and rich doesn't relieve them of racism. 

No. No. No. No. No.

Don't play into their crap. RDJ in Tropic thunder was in no way racist. This is oversimplifying.

It's like saying "The Producers" were Nazis because they had Nazis in their movie. 

Life is complex. Nuance exists. People need to stop oversimplifying and do some critical thinking. 

[wdefromtx 3,159]

Just now, AUght2win said:

Dressing up as a dude wearing a chain and a flatbill for a party is NOT what RDJ was doing. Pugh was not being ironic. And how do I know? Because it's beyond a reasonable doubt. There's no logical argument to make that says Pugh's blackface was railing against blackface. C'mon.

I never said as such, however they said all blackface is racist. You can't pick and choose based on what you want it to be. Which is what they are doing now. The fact he and others won't accept that someone doing whiteface can be racist as well says all I need to now. 

[AUght2win 6,818]

1 minute ago, wdefromtx said:

I never said as such, however they said all blackface is racist. You can't pick and choose based on what you want it to be. Which is what they are doing now. The fact he and others won't accept that someone doing whiteface can be racist as well says all I need to now. 

This is all strawman stuff. It's irrelevant. We are talking about Ryan Pugh. Are you really concerned about fighting for the use of ironic blackface or Whiteface? That isn't what we are discussing. 

[wdefromtx 3,159]

Just now, AUght2win said:

This is all strawman stuff. It's irrelevant. We are talking about Ryan Pugh. Are you really concerned about fighting for the use of ironic blackface or Whiteface? That isn't what we are discussing. 

When you go with a blanket statement like he did then it goes beyond Pugh. Just calling out some of the typical hypocrisy we see on here as well as the weaseling done to fit their narrative. Which could have been settled by a few simple yes or no answers a few pages back. 

[cole256 17,039]

33 minutes ago, metafour said:

No, all I ever said was that the history of blackface was "dicey at best" because you took a dogmatic stance on it being "absolutely racist" and stated that if one disagreed that they didn't understand the history - and I proved to you why that was a fallacious conclusion. I even outright told you that there was quite obviously racist examples of blackface, so I'm not disagreeing with anything. But if I can point out to you even ONE example of how it was a complicated form of "entertainment", then that obviously can't make your statement true. And Al Jolson wasn't some no-name blackface performer who no one even knew; he was the MOST POPULAR performer in America. So really, the most popular and successful blackface performer was in fact doing his performance out of good intentions, and his act empowered black performers for decades to come. You also don't get to rewrite history and go back in time and speak on behalf of the tens of thousands of black Americans who were in outright SUPPORT of him dressing up in blackface and doing his performances. If you want to talk about racism seriously, then you also need to accept some hard truths.

I never claimed that Ryan Pugh was doing some grand civil service by dressing up as Reggie Bush. He certainly did something unacceptable and is now paying the price for it, which is completely warranted. The point I'm trying to make is that it's much more likely that his stupid Halloween costume was just that: a stupid Halloween costume, and nothing more. Have there been any other recollections of racist behavior from him from the black players who played under him at Troy? What about his black former teammates at Auburn?

Bro you don't have any idea who or how many supported that man. At that time black people couldn't get on screen so they may have supported him just because he wasn't malicious to them and supported him as a man. 

And the fact that you think that somebody supporting him is a hard convo is hilarious. There were some slaves that didn't hate their master, that didn't want to run away....guess what? I'm going to speak for them and say they didn't want to be slaves they were just in a ****** predicament. This black face stuff originated and came from an evil heart o don't care how anybody try to make it cool it's not and it's racist

[cole256 17,039]

12 minutes ago, AUDub said:

Can only imagine the chuckles you're getting out of reading these feeble defenses of the indefensible, Cole. 

If I said this happen about 6 months from now people are going to say NOBODY would say that Cole

 

😂

[cole256 17,039]

12 minutes ago, AUght2win said:

This is all strawman stuff. It's irrelevant. We are talking about Ryan Pugh. Are you really concerned about fighting for the use of ironic blackface or Whiteface? That isn't what we are discussing. 

I know you won't agree but I've seen it and lived it and experienced it. This is the talk just the same as a person who says black people say the word why can't I? They want everything to be the same. They don't want to acknowledge what was done in the past and refuse to say it has an affect today