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Why Impeach Trump now?


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13 hours ago, Brad_ATX said:

I'm actually OK with Clyburne's approach.  Impeach him now, but send the articles to the Senate after the first 100 days so some legislation can be done.  I think it would also help a lot of this die down and lead to a better chance of conviction.

You do realize that sounding sane to some here on the board is about to get you called Seditious yourself, right?

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For those who do not know, impeaching Trump has the following result -- 1. He loses his $200,000+ lifelong pension 2. He loses his $1 Million per year travel allowance 3. He loses lifetime fu

You are completely missing the forest for the trees. You cannot look at this situation as having been caused by this one speech, which seems to be what those who support Trump are doing.  From th

Wrong forum. The question isn’t who has the sole power of impeachment; but when and against whom may that power be exercised. The Court’s interpretation of the impeachment clause, with res

8 hours ago, AUUSN said:

I have a feeling the decision is going to be made for them. $$$$$$$$

Republicans face growing corporate backlash after Capitol assault

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-corporate-idUKKBN29G1WH?taid=5ffd07634156da0001be1f8d&utm_campaign=trueAnthem:+Trending+Content&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=twitter

Indeed, indeed....follow the money. 

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8 hours ago, AUDub said:

When you get right down to it, mail in voting is better. 

The arguments against it are ludicrous...

8 hours ago, Brad_ATX said:

And the complaints only started when they lost an election.

...and clearly stemming from this and this alone. 

 

Also, LOL at this clowns who just watched a massive faction from the right launch a physical assault on Washington because their candidate refuses to acknowledge the results of a free and fair election but think that only Dems would rig the vote. (We'll set aside the fact that gerrymandering and voter suppression are patented GOP moves.)

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On 1/11/2021 at 2:24 PM, homersapien said:

If anyone actually thinks that impeaching a POTUS after he incited a seditionist mob to violently attack the capitol is partisan, then **** them.  They are part of the problem.

This is a far larger issue than you seem to think it is. 

The sitting POTUS just attempted a coup.  And it may not even be over.  We need to deal with it immediately.

What flavor was the Kool-Aid???

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On 1/11/2021 at 5:50 PM, AUFAN78 said:

Yeah I read the entire speech. Aljazeera has it up. It is a mess. Typical Trump. One of the worst orators ever. But you are correct, he even called for a peaceful march. 

“I know that everyone here will soon be marching over to the Capitol building to peacefully and patriotically make your voices heard.”

Here is a link to another article they have up: https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/1/11/whether-trump-incited-capitol-riot-is-in-eye-of-the-beholder

The word "peacefully" was a dog-whistle, 78. Didn't you know that?

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On 1/11/2021 at 2:55 PM, Brad_ATX said:

I'm actually OK with Clyburne's approach.  Impeach him now, but send the articles to the Senate after the first 100 days so some legislation can be done.  I think it would also help a lot of this die down and lead to a better chance of conviction.

Check out this article:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2021/01/12/once-trump-leaves-office-senate-cant-hold-an-impeachment-trial/

Once Trump leaves office, the Senate can’t hold an impeachment trial

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38 minutes ago, NolaAuTiger said:

Check out this article:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2021/01/12/once-trump-leaves-office-senate-cant-hold-an-impeachment-trial/

Once Trump leaves office, the Senate can’t hold an impeachment trial

As I understand it, the legal aspect is very much in dispute on if a trial can happen after he leaves office.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/can-trump-be-tried-senate-impeachment-charges-even-after-he-n1253544

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23 hours ago, AUUSN said:

I have a feeling the decision is going to be made for them. $$$$$$$$

Republicans face growing corporate backlash after Capitol assault

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-corporate-idUKKBN29G1WH?taid=5ffd07634156da0001be1f8d&utm_campaign=trueAnthem:+Trending+Content&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=twitter

 

15 hours ago, wdefromtx said:

Indeed, indeed....follow the money. 

Posts of the Day. The Republicans that are suddenly speaking up, if you think it is anything but the $$$ you are crazy.
It's all about the $$$.

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50 minutes ago, Brad_ATX said:

As I understand it, the legal aspect is very much in dispute on if a trial can happen after he leaves office.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/can-trump-be-tried-senate-impeachment-charges-even-after-he-n1253544

Will the impeachment trial after he leaves office before, during, or after the criminal and civil trials? :dunno:

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33 minutes ago, Grumps said:

 

Will the impeachment trial after he leaves office before, during, or after the criminal and civil trials? :dunno:

An impeachment is a political matter.  The other two are very much in the legal realm of the judiciary.  Two different aspects.

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4 hours ago, NolaAuTiger said:

Check out this article:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2021/01/12/once-trump-leaves-office-senate-cant-hold-an-impeachment-trial/

Once Trump leaves office, the Senate can’t hold an impeachment trial

Luttig is being iconoclastic. It's not justicable, precedent is entirely to the contrary and his view all but invalidates disqualification.

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3 hours ago, NolaAuTiger said:

Correct. Likely a constitutional issue properly suited for SCOTUS

They would have to invent a legal fiction to justify it. 

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On 1/11/2021 at 11:28 AM, AURex said:

For those who do not know, impeaching Trump has the following result --

1. He loses his $200,000+ lifelong pension
2. He loses his $1 Million per year travel allowance
3. He loses lifetime full secret service detail
4. He loses his ability to run again in 2024

The first 3, of course, involve many millions of dollars of taxpayer money, but the final item may be the most valuable for our country.

 

Just my opinion, but any person that has or would vote for Trump in the future should lose their voting rights for ten years and take classes on how to judge character. Lol

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They get Pence to invoke the 25th, it is over. Just getting the Impeachment and the foot dragging on paperwork all to line up is too much for too little. 

Maybe Pence does the right thing? 

Saw last nite where only 8% of Republicans actually support the mob at the Capital. Mo Brooks has a petition to recall him going forward. MM et al have seen the lite. Maybe we get some grown up action. 

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14 hours ago, Grumps said:

The word "peacefully" was a dog-whistle, 78. Didn't you know that?

Based on the effect it had, I'd call it more of a pro-forma, "wink wink" whistle.  It's pretty obvious the crowd of MAGAs didn't take it seriously.   

Trump sure didn't bother to reiterate it after the assault begin, even while members of his own party were begging him to do so. 

 

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9 minutes ago, homersapien said:

Based on the effect it had, I'd call it more of a pro-forma, "wink wink" whistle.

He sure didn't bother to reiterate it after the assault begin, even while members of his own party were begging him to do so.  It's pretty obvious the crowd of MAGAs didn't take it seriously.   

 

And he still takes no responsibility for it and says "everyone agrees" his speech was appropriate. 

The scariest thing is that I no longer believe he could end this by coming out and saying the election was legitimate (not that he would, anyway). It might have an effect on a relative few of his hardcore supporters, but this is now a raging fire that he can no longer control. 

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23 minutes ago, Leftfield said:

And he still takes no responsibility for it and says "everyone agrees" his speech was appropriate. 

The scariest thing is that I no longer believe he could end this by coming out and saying the election was legitimate (not that he would, anyway). It might have an effect on a relative few of his hardcore supporters, but this is now a raging fire that he can no longer control. 

The flippancy of the "it doesn't matter what he says" crowd these last few years is all the more maddening, even with this being the end result the rest of us feared. 

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1 hour ago, McLoofus said:

The flippancy of the "it doesn't matter what he says" crowd these last few years is all the more maddening, even with this being the end result the rest of us feared. 

Maybe they still think of him as a reality show host instead of the POTUS.  It's just Trump being Trump.

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8 minutes ago, homersapien said:

Maybe they still think of him as a reality show host instead of POTUS.  It's just Trump being Trump.

That's definitely part of the problem. A lot of people seem to have had a lot of things to say to people like you and me these last few years, but at the end of the day they really do think this is all entertainment. I just have to hope that they fail to verbally acknowledge the gravity of what happened last week- and the role their own flippancy played in allowing it to happen- out of shame or embarrassment, and that privately they are doing some real soul searching.

There's no hope for the crazies. Not until some sort of major socioeconomic change happens that makes them less angry, scared, and desperate for a false prophet to provide them with a target for their frustrations. He really is a religion. He provides simple, satisfying answers to complex, existential questions. Sorry, tangenting here. 

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https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2020/1/12/21062617/nancy-pelosi-trump-articles-of-impeachment-delay-senate

Nancy Pelosi explains what Democrats gained by holding onto the articles of impeachment

The wins include the public’s desire to hear from witnesses and the release of new evidence that’s strengthened the case for impeachment.

By Katelyn Burns  
 

GettyImages_1192749407.0.jpg House Speaker Nancy Pelosi at her weekly press briefing on Capitol Hill in Washington, DC, on January 9, 2020.  AFP via Getty Images

Much has been made of House Speaker Nancy Pelosi’s decision not to send President Donald Trump’s articles of impeachment to the Senate following the House’s impeachment vote in December.

President Trump and his GOP allies have claimed the delay shows his impeachment was a partisan effort to stain his legacy rather than an attempt to check his conduct, pointing out that Pelosi said Trump asking Ukraine to investigate his political rival constituted an “urgent concern” to national security. They argue that if it was an urgent concern, she would have sent the articles immediately.

Democrats meanwhile, were reportedly kept in the dark about the delay, with CNN reporter Manu Raju reporting that even Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer was not informed about the hold — or when Pelosi planned to send the articles over.

On Friday, Pelosi announced the articles would finally be sent, allowing the Senate’s impeachment trial to begin. On Sunday she appeared on ABC’s This Week, explaining why she chose to hold onto the articles for so long.

There were three primary reasons for the delay, according to the speaker.

First, she hoped to pressure Senate Republicans into accepting Democrats’ requests that witnesses be called in the trial.

“We wanted the public to see the need for witnesses, witnesses with firsthand knowledge of what happened,” Pelosi told This Week’s George Stephanopoulos.

Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell was initially resistant to Democratic calls for witnesses — in fact, he reportedly privately spoke of the need to have a trial without witnesses — and was criticized by Democrats for saying he’d work “in total coordination with the White House counsel’s office” throughout the trial.

 

Pelosi wasn’t entirely successful in changing his mind on the issue of witnesses, but McConnell did shift slightly — the Republican position evolved: Now GOP senators say the trial should reflect the impeachment trial of President Bill Clinton, meaning that the issue of witnesses could be taken up after opening statements.

Key GOP senators who have been critical of the president with respect to his pressure campaign on Ukraine — and who voiced concern over how McConnell originally framed the Senate process — have signaled some willingness to entertain the idea of witnesses down the line.

Whether this means the trial will actually have witnesses — particularly the four desired by Democrats — remains to be seen, but Pelosi called this shift a win Sunday, and did the same when speaking about former National Security Adviser John Bolton’s surprise announcement that he would cooperate with a Senate subpoena and testify if told to do so.

“Over 70 percent of the American people think that the president should have those witnesses testify. So, again, it’s about a fair trial,” Pelosi said. “And we think that would be with witnesses and documentation. So, that dynamic has — now the ball is in their court to either do that, or pay a price for not doing it.”

The speaker added, “[Bolton] has said in this two weeks’ period, there was another piece of progress that we made, that he would respond to a subpoena from the United States Senate.”

Pelosi also said the delay was to allow the public time to see further “documentation which the president has prevented from coming to the Congress” — that is, more evidence of wrongdoing.

As Vox’s Li Zhou has explained, more evidence has indeed come to light:

Since the House’s impeachment vote in December, more and more documents — including Pentagon emails about Ukraine aid — have leaked out and strengthened Democrats’ case, further building the public record for the Trump impeachment charges.

...

“[Former National Security Adviser John] Bolton’s statement on Monday and new emails showing the Pentagon was concerned about President Trump’s freeze on Ukraine aid are significant developments that demand a fair trial in the Senate — and wouldn’t have happened without Speaker Pelosi holding the articles,” [a Democratic] aide says.

Finally, Pelosi suggested that the delay helped create a contrast between Democrats in the House and Republicans in the Senate.

McConnell and Senate Republicans, she argued, are not taking impeachment seriously, but rather looking for ways to protect the president. The process has shown Democrats on the other hand, as lawmakers who put the Constitution first, she said.

“But the fact is, is one of the things that I think is really important, what I think people should be very aware of, very unusually, the leader of the Senate, Mitch McConnell, has signed on to a resolution to dismiss the case,” Pelosi said. “Dismissing is a cover-up. If they want to go that route, again, the senators who are thinking now about voting for witnesses or not, they will have to be accountable for not having a fair trial.”

She went on to say, “We’ve done our job. We’ve defended the Constitution of the United States. We would hope that the Senate would do that as well.”

Republicans would obviously disagree. Trump has called the impeachment process a “‘no pressure’ Impeachment Hoax” and a “partisan Democrat Witch Hunt.” His allies have cast Democrats as having unfairly targeted him; Sen. Lindsey Graham, for instance, has called the impeachment vote a “sad, ridiculous sham” and “partisan nonsense.”

Both parties will have another chance to advance their arguments during the trial. Pelosi said she’ll hold a vote on transmitting the articles to the Senate Tuesday, and a trial could start soon after those articles are received.

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a close friend who is a lib and he has a right leaning friend who is not batshite crazy even tho i do not agree with him. but he told my friend he goes to some hardcore rightwing websites and he told david my friend that he thiks somethings are coming up when they swear joe in. i understand a lot of it is just talking trash but people are saying trump will try to declare martial law right before the swearing in ceremony and trump plans to try and take over. it sounds far fetched but some of these people are crazy enough to try. but the same sites he goes to as well as the fbi making statements that there are several plots to do some serious harm at different places around the country and not just dc. my point is to be careful just in case. it just blows my mind that this country is at the point where this kind of crap is picking up steam and people would actually hurt america. besides ruby ridge and also okie city fed building being bombed anything is possible. what about those cowboys that took over that bird sanctuary?people still bitch about waco as well. then the capital in michigan i believe? and now this past crap in dc where one cop had his brains beat in with a pipe. five people died because they believed some outrageous bull about the election being stolen from the biggest con man ever in america today. i tell you boys i am weary. i am afraid so many are going to get hurt in the future and it will be protesters and those trying to stop them. and i still do not understand the rights talking points on the election being stolen. the only answer i got was one person said trump was winning when he went to bed and the next day trump was a loser. and trump in my opinion should should get way more than a damn impeachment. i have seen nothing in print but it seems trumps biggest protector pence was a target to be captured and hung. hell the piece of crap cannot be faithful to those that tried to protect him. if trump had been any kind of smart he would have resigned with the condition that pence would pardon him and while i believe it was brought up he declined so it is on him and he deserves anything he gets towards jailtime and fines. and it should be brutal enough to make the most fearless out there swallow when they think of hurting this country. the shinning city on the hill is burning and it is not a pretty sight.

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19 hours ago, AUDub said:

Luttig is being iconoclastic. It's not justicable, precedent is entirely to the contrary and his view all but invalidates disqualification.

How is the question of whether a former President is subject to the Constitution's impeachment clause nonjusticiable?

Contrary precedent, if any, is not determinative to the Supreme Court granting writ. Appellate Courts and SCOTUS routinely hear cases with contrary precedent.

20 hours ago, AUDub said:

They would have to invent a legal fiction to justify it. 

Why would that be necessary?

 

Is it your view that the issue would ultimately be a political question, and therefore nonjusticiable on that basis?

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This just in. Biden will no longer be taking a train to the inauguration due to security concern. Trump has created a situation in this nation that endangers the lives of so many. It's time to start making examples of people.  The senate must impeach. Those that stormed the capital must be captured and charged with the maximum charge possible. You don't move on by forgetting it happened. you move on by making sure it never happens again. 

https://apnews.com/article/biden-inauguration-capitol-siege-joe-biden-donald-trump-ba7bcefad3a65bf9432e9178633baadd

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