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2021 New Staff (Complete... again)


Zeek

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3 minutes ago, cole256 said:

That's your opinion it is extremely trivial

It's not trivial at all.

This is NOT a "normal" coaching vacancy. This is a complete staff turnover with a brand new head coach who has zero SEC ties. This requires more commitment as this isn't a "plug-and-play" staffing situation - we're basically trying to reboot the program and inject a new core spirit/mentality. Tracy Rocker KNEW what the scenario was at Auburn, was TOLD during his interview process that there was a reasonable ask of giving a 2-3 year commitment to the rebuild, he ACCEPTED those terms, and then held up the position for 2-3 weeks before fielding a "better" offer. 

If you can't give the commitment, then state that from the very beginning and there would be no issues with anyone. Ultimately its a free country and he's more than welcome to look out for his best interest, but to paint this as "trivial" is absurd.

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16 minutes ago, cole256 said:

That's your opinion it is extremely trivial

It's not really just opinion.  There are tons of situations in the business world where this would damage or burn a bridge with an employer, even without any other non-business ties like family, friends, or alma mater amping things up.

Maybe it's not as big a deal as some thing, but "extremely trivial" is a stick-your-head-in-the-sand take.

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1 minute ago, metafour said:

It's not trivial at all.

This is NOT a "normal" coaching vacancy. This is a complete staff turnover with a brand new head coach who has zero SEC ties. This requires more commitment as this isn't a "plug-and-play" staffing situation - we're basically trying to reboot the program and inject a new core spirit/mentality. Tracy Rocker KNEW what the scenario was at Auburn, was TOLD during his interview process that there was a reasonable ask of giving a 2-3 year commitment to the rebuild, he ACCEPTED those terms, and then held up the position for 2-3 weeks before fielding a "better" offer. 

If you can't give the commitment, then state that from the very beginning and there would be no issues with anyone. Ultimately its a free country and he's more than welcome to look out for his best interest, but to paint this as "trivial" is absurd.

Let me try this again it's extremely trivial in the timeframe it was done. Writing long paragraphs on facts you have no idea to be facts means nothing.

In the grand scheme he took a job and before the job started he received another offer and asked the job to match it and they said no. That's it. Happens all the time.

Also auburn would have no problem hiring a coach that did this to another school to come to us

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If it had been reversed there would be those saying Harsin is to be hanged from Toomers corner. Think about it. Harsin hires Rocker then 10 days later lets him go to hire someone else that he liked better. Would we be saying, Harsin is making a business decision? Good for Harsin for bettering himself? Not at all. These same people taking up for Rocker bettering himself would be RIoting in the streets. Its a 2 way street. 

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Just now, TitanTiger said:

It's not really just opinion.  There are tons of situations in the business world where this would damage or burn a bridge with an employer, even without any other non-business ties like family, friends, or alma mater amping things up.

Maybe it's not as big a deal as some thing, but "extremely trivial" is a stick-your-head-in-the-sand take.

If me saying it's trivial is that then the opposite saying it's a huge deal is the same thing. It really is a matter of opinion because it's a matter of perspective. And once again just like stuff changed when we found out a little more of the situation it could still change if ever the exact situation is made public.

But what I look at is the time frame of the situation as opposed if it was done in let's say the middle of the season. This happening before anything was started was a minimal impact. No relationships started no lies told nobody committed and now is feels a type of way. If this was going to happen this is literally the best time to do so

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2 minutes ago, AUnCullman said:

If it had been reversed there would be those saying Harsin is to be hanged from Toomers corner. Think about it. Harsin hires Rocker then 10 days later lets him go to hire someone else that he liked better. Would we be saying, Harsin is making a business decision? Good for Harsin for bettering himself? Not at all. These same people taking up for Rocker bettering himself would be RIoting in the streets. Its a 2 way street. 

To me the better view of opposite is would auburn take some one else coach.....which I believe they certainly would......your rioting in the streets thing is poorly worded. Are you rioting?

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2 minutes ago, cole256 said:

If me saying it's trivial is that then the opposite saying it's a huge deal is the same thing.

Which is kind of what I said.  It may not be as big a deal as some are making it, but it is a significant thing in many if not most cases.  You're lucky in that situation if it doesn't create some friction with that employer for a while.

 

2 minutes ago, cole256 said:

It really is a matter of opinion because it's a matter of perspective. And once again just like stuff changed when we found out a little more of the situation it could still change if ever the exact situation is made public.

But what I look at is the time frame of the situation as opposed if it was done in let's say the middle of the season. This happening before anything was started was a minimal impact. No relationships started no lies told nobody committed and now is feels a type of way. If this was going to happen this is literally the best time to do so

I suppose it could always be worse.  He could have quit right before the season.  Or the week before the Iron Bowl.  Or the morning of signing day.

That said, if he assented to being here for 2 years or so to help 'change the culture' then it's a totally s***ty move.

 

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7 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

It's not really just opinion.  There are tons of situations in the business world where this would damage or burn a bridge with an employer, even without any other non-business ties like family, friends, or alma mater amping things up.

Maybe it's not as big a deal as some thing, but "extremely trivial" is a stick-your-head-in-the-sand take.

Also it's what is being argued. I haven't seen anybody say that rocker should be hired back immediately or if ever. Really what is trying to be convinced? Whether to hate this man or not? I'm saying sacrifices he's already provided be mad at this guy for what? I'm not saying make him a coach. 

I just think these very reactions are the very reason to look out for yourself. To me this whole thing is ironic

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11 minutes ago, AUnCullman said:

If it had been reversed there would be those saying Harsin is to be hanged from Toomers corner. Think about it. Harsin hires Rocker then 10 days later lets him go to hire someone else that he liked better. Would we be saying, Harsin is making a business decision? Good for Harsin for bettering himself? Not at all. These same people taking up for Rocker bettering himself would be RIoting in the streets. Its a 2 way street. 

I wouldn't be mad at Harsin. I'd be concerned about his HR skills. His staff would have zero trust in him and zero sense of security here. They'd all be entertaining every offer that came their way.  He'd also look like he doesn't do his homework and is indecisive. There's a reason what Rocker did is fairly common, even if the specifics vary, but what you're suggesting never happens unless there are extenuating circumstances like the Ryan Pugh thing or the Mike Stoops thing.

Which, btw, Sark is taking very well deserved heat for. So, yes actually, we have a current, real time example of torches and pitchforks over a head coach yanking a job offer over some bad PR. It doesn't even matter whether or not Sark was right, because he looks like a friggin' idiot. 

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32 minutes ago, cole256 said:

That's your opinion it is extremely trivial

It’s actually a fact in my line of work.  Anytime someone makes a commitment then leaves you short handed, they’re usually black listed.  That’s what the Not Eligible for Rehire checkbox is used for.  

It’s usually difficult to move up the ladder when you’re constantly changing positions.  Good riddance!

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1 minute ago, TitanTiger said:

Which is kind of what I said.  It may not be as big a deal as some are making it, but it is a significant thing in many if not most cases.  You're lucky in that situation if it doesn't create some friction with that employer for a while.

 

I suppose it could always be worse.  He could have quit right before the season.  Or the week before the Iron Bowl.  Or the morning of signing day.

That said, if he assented to being here for 2 years or so to help 'change the culture' then it's a totally s***ty move.

 

If he was paid what he asked and then didn't then it's a crap move. 

What if I've tried to get the money and harsin said no and then he wasn't allowed to have his job just for asking? That could've happen. If that were to happen then it changes how I feel. 

Since I know I don't know. I'm just saying the whole you know our creed and if you were one of us talk is just.......it just stupid to me. I don't mean that to insult anybody

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1 minute ago, gctiger said:

It’s actually a fact in my line of work.  Anytime someone makes a commitment then leaves you short handed, they’re usually black listed.  That’s what the Not Eligible for Rehire checkbox is used for.  

It’s usually difficult to move up the ladder when you’re constantly changing positions.  Good riddance!

In my line of work people are recruited and only the best of the best are available making the pool more shallow than most industries and people negotiate all the time and it's known if you want this person you better know you're going you pay. Stock options, bonus all of that.

Even the little things like paying for travel just to interview is huge

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2 minutes ago, cole256 said:

In my line of work people are recruited and only the best of the best are available making the pool more shallow than most industries and people negotiate all the time and it's known if you want this person you better know you're going you pay. Stock options, bonus all of that.

Even the little things like paying for travel just to interview is huge

That’s good but how’s it relevant to the topic?

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5 minutes ago, cole256 said:

In my line of work people are recruited and only the best of the best are available making the pool more shallow than most industries and people negotiate all the time and it's known if you want this person you better know you're going you pay. Stock options, bonus all of that.

Even the little things like paying for travel just to interview is huge

Obviously how dim a view such moves are seen in will vary from industry to industry.  But I think in this field where relationships and team chemistry and such are at a premium, ditching a job 10 days after you accepted it is likely to be looked down on more than other fields.  To say nothing of the more limited hiring pool and even more limited pool of difference making candidates.  

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9 minutes ago, gctiger said:

That’s good but how’s it relevant to the topic?

You just brought it up. Lol but 👌🏾 I guess just your line of work is relevant

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2 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

Obviously how dim a view such moves are seen in will vary from industry to industry.  But I think in this field where relationships and team chemistry and such are at a premium, ditching a job 10 days after you accepted it is likely to be looked down on more than other fields.  To say nothing of the more limited hiring pool and even more limited pool of difference making candidates.  

I can imagine. But I would also betmy bottom dollar not one person that's a player is mad at him. Maybe wish they could've learned from him but as far as the team it's also ironic that the kids probably would be the most mature

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3 minutes ago, cole256 said:

I can imagine. But I would also betmy bottom dollar not one person that's a player is mad at him. Maybe wish they could've learned from him but as far as the team it's also ironic that the kids probably would be the most mature

They barely got to know him and have no idea what it would be like to be coached by him.  They didn't have a chance to feel anything one way or the other.  So it really isn't about them being more mature.

But at a minimum he's made Harsin's and Auburn's job harder.  They may not be able to now replace him with someone of equal caliber as they try to reorient this program.  So it's not unreasonable for them to be a little pissed about that.  If he reneged on an agreement to stick for at least a couple of years then all the more reason for Harsin to tell him to kick rocks.

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Agree to disagree and shake hands guys. Let’s go find another coach and move forward.

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Just now, toddc said:

Agree to disagree and shake hands guys. Let’s go find another coach and move forward.

It's the offseason and there's little else to talk about.  If we want to debate something ad nauseam, leave us be!  :P

 

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Just now, TitanTiger said:

It's the offseason and there's little else to talk about.  If we want to debate something ad nauseam, leave us be!  :P

 

I knew when I hit post it was a mistake! 😝 

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1 minute ago, TitanTiger said:

They barely got to know him and have no idea what it would be like to be coached by him.  They didn't have a chance to feel anything one way or the other.  So it really isn't about them being more mature.

But at a minimum he's made Harsin's and Auburn's job harder.  They may not be able to now replace him with someone of equal caliber as they try to reorient this program.  So it's not unreasonable for them to be a little pissed about that.  If he reneged on an agreement to stick for at least a couple of years then all the more reason for Harsin to tell him to kick rocks.

The players aren't stupid. They play for Auburn. They know exactly who he is. And they would be excited to play for him because of the NFL. But I know how players act, what they would say.

And I'm sorry ten days isn't a long time and for all we know he may have told him he wants to coach in the NFL again and he's using this as a way to get there. I don't imagine they want be able to replace with the same quality. I can't imagine many that are his quality which is why if you really want quality maybe you pay for it

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4 minutes ago, toddc said:

Agree to disagree and shake hands guys. Let’s go find another coach and move forward.

I actually think this is a great example how you can disagree and discuss it and it not be a personal or negative thing. We're talking and he respects me and I respect him and we're just backing our thoughts and points. Absolutely no anger

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I don't expect a coach to show any loyalty, when they are rarely given any.  If you get what you perceive a better opportunity take it, you never know when your next opportunity or last day is gonna be.  Especially as an assistant coach.

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