A Reckoning in six months...

[McLoofus 35,182]

11 minutes ago, bigbird said:

Then why is it so hard for you?

I do it often and you damn well know I do. You really are very disingenuous and dishonest. Dub wasn't entirely right about you, but he wasn't entirely wrong, either.

Quote

You said he'd set up a coup, refuse to leave, or use the military to remain in power.

He attempted all of these things. That he failed doesn't render any of it inaccurate. Your intellect and integrity are failing here in equal measure.

Quote

I said it would be an impossibility. He didn't and was unable. Who's wrong?

You said a lot more than it was merely impossible. You were wrong. I, along with @homersapien and others, was right.

[bigbird 60,368]

7 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

I do it often and you damn well know I do. You really are very disingenuous and dishonest. Dub wasn't entirely right about you, but he wasn't entirely wrong, either.

Oh goody, back to name calling. I'm shocked.

7 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

He attempted all of these things. That he failed doesn't render any of it inaccurate. 

That's precisely the point. Y'all argued he would try it. I said it would be impossible to do with the safeguards in place. How am I being disingenuous or wrong?

 

7 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

You said a lot more than it was merely impossible.

Quote me. Should be easy.

 

 

BTW, Who's president today?  

[TitanTiger 20,471]

5 minutes ago, bigbird said:

What do these pics have to do with him remaining in power? To me, it seems the mechanisms in place to stop such a thing did exactly what they were meant to do and stopped any further development.  It didn't matter if he wanted it, it didn't matter if his supporters wanted it, it didn't matter if it ALMOST happened. The fact is, it didn't and it didn't get close. The system worked to stop it just like I said it would and Trump is now in Florida while Biden takes over.

I think we have to admit something here.  Only five people died because we were damn lucky.  The officer that escorted Kamala Harris yesterday was one who allowed a large mob of the capitol stormers to follow him and led them away from the Senate chamber.  They were literally feet away from the door to the Senate and timestamps indicate that at the moment he was doing that, it was about a minute later that the Senate chamber was reported as sealed and the Senators evacuated.  Had he not been as brave or as quick thinking to lead them down the opposite direction in that hallway, getting them to turn left instead of right at the top of the staircase, a violent mob could have had some hostages and God knows what they would have done.

Yes, there are mechanisms in place to make a coup very hard to pull off.  Yes, the Capitol has safety glass and hardened doors that make it difficult to easily barge through from one section to another.  Yes there was an escape plan with underground tunnels available.  And finally, yes, "Y'all Qaeda" wasn't very tactically smart and organized.  But in the end, we were minutes and some very fortuitous happenings away from a much more violent and bloody outcome.  As bad as the siege of the Capitol was, imagine it with someone executing some House or Senate members.  Or executing the Vice President.  Imagine if the idiot from Alabama got in with his homemade napalm and Molotov cocktails.  Imagine if several pipe bombs were set off.  Imagine if someone armed with a firearm induced a panic and a shootout in the crowd?

All of this could have been far worse.  And if you read the series of articles I posted from Axios, you see that Trump was being encouraged to, and attempting to get his people in key positions to try and reverse the results of the election and stay in power.  I'm glad for the mechanisms that are in place and that not everyone in his administration was cooperating.  But what it reveals to me is that Trump wasn't really smart enough to pull something like this off, but the next authoritarian mob boss may be a lot smarter, more subtle, lay a lot more groundwork, and as a result find a lot more success.  

[wdefromtx 3,159]

5 minutes ago, homersapien said:

Anyone horrified by the above photos are just over-reacting and trying to employ "fear politics".  It was nothing from the very beginning. 

In fact, reaction to the entire Trump presidency was just an exercise in "fear politics"  - never mind that more than 70 million people supported a second term. Trump was a good president - a "stable genius". It was just the libs overreaction that make it seem otherwise.

We don't need to be concerned by what the president does.  Our liberty was never in danger.  In fact, it never will be. Our system will always take care care of itself, just as if it were on autopilot.  Any concern otherwise is just trying to play "fear politics".  Our liberty was never in danger.  In fact, it never will be.  Just go back to sleep and quit with your "fear politics". 

Some of the people on this forum never cease to amaze me.

People died for our freedom and they are willing to piss it away by not taking threats to it seriously.  

 

 

Yet, all you care about is Trump and don’t realize to keep this from being worse the next time is the root problem needs to be addressed and not just the symptoms. 
 

Sounds like you are just as willing to piss away our freedom as much as the next person to me. But it’s just easiest to pin it all on Trump so you can put your head back in the sand right? 

[McLoofus 35,182]

21 minutes ago, bigbird said:

It was a very big deal, indeed. I've said so many times. However, it has absolutely nothing to do with what we're talking about. It's a shame you have to try and twist other's words to make them fit your narrative.

It was stated many times that Trump wouldn't leave, he'd try a coup, or use the military to remain in power. None of that ever came close to happening. I said, even if he wanted to he wouldn't be able. Surprise! It didn't happen.

I'm sorry that you bought into the fearful talking points and tried to pass it off as a definite possibility. It wasn't ever and you and many others have been proven wrong since then. I get it, it must sting buying into every rumor and repeatedly being proven wrong. It'll be okay. 

It's a new day, Biden is president, and Trump is gone. 2 out of 3 ain't bad to me and still I hope Biden is very successful.

Even as my expectations plummet, I'm not even sure where to start with this.

11 minutes ago, bigbird said:

That's funny because I've thought many here, despite viewpoints, are more similar in behavior and action to each other than they like to admit.  Although they won't ever admit it, many here are more 11 o'clock and 1 o'clock than 12 and 6.

Okay, cool, so I guess we're making the same point, but maybe just not about the same people. 

Literally all you had to do is say, "Wow, I underestimated this guy's appetite and ability to be a disastrous president", but instead you insisted on doubling down on the normalizing, minimizing, and deflecting. It's all fear politics. It's all the media. It's all the fault of the Dems for being mean to trump voters. We should be more worried about Biden because he doesn't always speak that well. You're more interested in being That Guy than being honest.

 

 

 

 

[bigbird 60,368]

10 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

I think we have to admit something here.  Only five people died because we were damn lucky.  The officer that escorted Kamala Harris yesterday was one who allowed a large mob of the capitol stormers to follow him and led them away from the Senate chamber.  They were literally feet away from the door to the Senate and timestamps indicate that at the moment he was doing that, it was about a minute later that the Senate chamber was reported as sealed and the Senators evacuated.  Had he not been as brave or as quick thinking to lead them down the opposite direction in that hallway, getting them to turn left instead of right at the top of the staircase, a violent mob could have had some hostages and God knows what they would have done.

Yes, there are mechanisms in place to make a coup very hard to pull off.  Yes, the Capitol has safety glass and hardened doors that make it difficult to easily barge through from one section to another.  Yes there was an escape plan with underground tunnels available.  And finally, yes, "Y'all Qaeda" wasn't very tactically smart and organized.  But in the end, we were minutes and some very fortuitous happenings away from a much more violent and bloody outcome.  As bad as the siege of the Capitol was, imagine it with someone executing some House or Senate members.  Or executing the Vice President.  Imagine if the idiot from Alabama got in with his homemade napalm and Molotov cocktails.  Imagine if several pipe bombs were set off.  Imagine if someone armed with a firearm induced a panic and a shootout in the crowd?

All of this could have been far worse.  And if you read the series of articles I posted from Axios, you see that Trump was being encouraged to, and attempting to get his people in key positions to try and reverse the results of the election and stay in power.  I'm glad for the mechanisms that are in place and that not everyone in his administration was cooperating.  But what it reveals to me is that Trump wasn't really smart enough to pull something like this off, but the next authoritarian mob boss may be a lot smarter, more subtle, lay a lot more groundwork, and as a result find a lot more success.  

I agree that it was terrible and it was unprecedented. However, those safeguards worked and it also revealed safeguards that don't. Don't you think the latter has been or will be very quickly addressed? 

 

To me, it doesn't matter how much he wanted it or how close it came. The military wouldn't have allowed it. Congress wouldn't have allowed it. The courts wouldn't have allowed it. The people wouldn't have allowed it.  The fact is it didn't come close and it didn't work because the country and it's safeguards wouldn't allow it.  

 

[DKW 86 7,411]

41 minutes ago, bigbird said:

It was a very big deal, indeed. I've said so many times. However, it has absolutely nothing to do with what we're talking about. It's a shame you have to try and twist other's words to make them fit your narrative.

It was stated many times that Trump wouldn't leave, he'd try a coup, or use the military to remain in power. None of that ever came close to happening. I said, even if he wanted to he wouldn't be able. Surprise! It didn't happen.

I'm sorry that you bought into the fearful talking points and tried to pass it off as a definite possibility. It wasn't ever and you and many others have been proven wrong since then. I get it, it must sting buying into every rumor and repeatedly being proven wrong. It'll be okay. 

It's a new day, Biden is president, and Trump is gone. 2 out of 3 ain't bad to me and still I hope Biden is very successful.

 

BRAVO

[TitanTiger 20,471]

7 minutes ago, bigbird said:

I agree that it was terrible and it was unprecedented. However, those safeguards worked and it also revealed safeguards that don't. Don't you think the latter has been or will be very quickly addressed? 

I would think so.  But again, saying "we have mechanisms in place to prevent" things when a whole lot of why this wasn't a whole lot worse is sheer luck.  Our safeguards weren't necessarily enough - we just didn't have an organized enough enemy.  This time.

 

7 minutes ago, bigbird said:

To me, it doesn't matter how much he wanted it or how close it came. The military wouldn't have allowed it. Congress wouldn't have allowed it. The courts wouldn't have allowed it. The people wouldn't have allowed it.  The fact is it didn't come close and it didn't work because the country and it's safeguards wouldn't allow it.  

I think this time that's true.  Because Trump was too much of a boor and a clown.  The next guy that has similar designs on power might be a lot more congenial, slicker, a better actor, and smarter.  And those safeguards wouldn't necessarily save us then.

People are and were right to sound the alarm bells here.

[DKW 86 7,411]

Six months people. 

There are obviously some here that still have raw nerves. The alleged Fascistic Takeover Certainty never happened however. Just like the grownups predicted. 

[homersapien 11,354]

23 minutes ago, wdefromtx said:

Yet, all you care about is Trump and don’t realize to keep this from being worse the next time is the root problem needs to be addressed and not just the symptoms. 
 

Sounds like you are just as willing to piss away our freedom as much as the next person to me. But it’s just easiest to pin it all on Trump so you can put your head back in the sand right? 

Sorry, but that's unintelligible.

[McLoofus 35,182]

11 minutes ago, bigbird said:

To me, it doesn't matter how much he wanted it or how close it came.

Huh.

Quote

It was a very big deal, indeed. I've said so many times. 

But then...

Quote

It didn't matter if he wanted it, it didn't matter if his supporters wanted it, it didn't matter if it ALMOST happened. 

Forgive me if I'm having trouble following you here. 

 

Oh, you were right about one thing.

 

[bigbird 60,368]

Just now, TitanTiger said:

People are and were right to sound the alarm bells here

There's a difference between vigilance and fear. We should always be vigilant no matter who is in charge, but buying into the fear, knowing that there isn't a chance, is foolish.

You're correct that maybe next time the perpetrator is smoother and has more ability. If that's the case, I would agree that there is an issue and something should be done. That said, Trump wasn't smart enough and didn't have that charismatic personality needed. That's one reason I said it was impossible for him. Know your enemy before formulating a strategy to stop them.

[wdefromtx 3,159]

2 minutes ago, homersapien said:

Sorry, but that's unintelligible.

Just keep your head in the sand then. 

[McLoofus 35,182]

5 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

I think this time that's true.  Because Trump was too much of a boor and a clown.  The next guy that has similar designs on power might be a lot more congenial, slicker, a better actor, and smarter.  And those safeguards wouldn't necessarily save us then.

Bingo. 

Also, we haven't gotten into how many inside actors were involved, but trump had a lot of help in getting things to go as far as they went. 

And let's not forget how many Congresspeople efforted to have the election results overturned. More votes and they might have succeeded. More help from some dark corners and maybe some Congresspeople actually do die. It would seem that Republicans of all people would be concerned about this now that Dems have the House, Senate and White House. 

But I guess none of it matters because it didn't work.

[bigbird 60,368]

12 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

Forgive me if I'm having trouble following you here. 

Seems to be the case

 

 

41 minutes ago, bigbird said:

48 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

You said a lot more than it was merely impossible. You were wrong.

 

Quote me. Should be easy.

 

 

BTW, Who's president today?  

12 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

Oh, you were right about one thing.

And what does that have to do with anything we were discussing? You claimed I said a lot more in regards to addressing trump's attempt to remain in power and  You quote me from a conversation about protest and rioting saying, "And the left weren't going to? The only difference is the amount of property that would've been destroyed." Awesome! 😂

[bigbird 60,368]

5 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

But I guess none of it matters because it didn't work.

So you admit I was right when I said it wouldn't work? Great, thanks.

I guess that also proves me wrong when I said that you had difficulty admitting to being wrong. There, you're right too.

[homersapien 11,354]

25 minutes ago, bigbird said:

I agree that it was terrible and it was unprecedented. However, those safeguards worked and it also revealed safeguards that don't. Don't you think the latter has been or will be very quickly addressed? 

 

To me, it doesn't matter how much he wanted it or how close it came. The military wouldn't have allowed it. Congress wouldn't have allowed it. The courts wouldn't have allowed it. The people wouldn't have allowed it.  The fact is it didn't come close and it didn't work because the country and it's safeguards wouldn't allow it.  

 

And we should rejoice and be grateful it didn't.

Post-facto complacency and criticism of those who sounded early alarms ("fear politics") is not an appropriate response.

[McLoofus 35,182]

3 minutes ago, bigbird said:

And what does that have to do with anything we were discussing? You claimed I said a lot more in regards to addressing trump's attempt to remain in power and  You quote me saying, "And the left weren't going to? The only difference is the amount of property that would've been destroyed." Awesome! 😂

Oh, it doesn't prove anything with regards to your prior comments on what trump's refusal to acknowledge the election results mean. But your response does give us a good measure of your ability to acknowledge that you were wrong about something. 

I've yet to find an example of what I was talking about. Maybe it doesn't exist. I could have mistaken your intent in your posts. See. Not hard.

But, then again, you literally just said this in this very thread:

Quote

To me, it doesn't matter how much he wanted it or how close it came. 

Oh, as for this...

3 minutes ago, bigbird said:

So you admit I was right when I said it wouldn't work? Great, thanks.

Where did I dispute this? 

Quote

I guess that also proves me wrong when I said that you had difficulty admitting to being wrong. There, you're right too.

You're actually being quite pathetic now. 

[bigbird 60,368]

1 minute ago, homersapien said:

And we should rejoice and be grateful it didn't.

Post-facto complacency and criticism of those who sounded early alarms ("fear politics") is not an appropriate response.

Very grateful, indeed! Would've been an absolute tragedy.

 

Criticisms, based on hypotheticals and what ifs, rather than facts and working knowledge should, in fact, be criticized and called out.  

[TitanTiger 20,471]

Look, if you made me bet money on it I didn't not think it was likely that Trump would be able to pull his scheme off.  I didn't think he was popular enough or sophisticated enough to do it.  But I became more and more shocked as time went by at the attempts he was making.  And the more info that comes out about the breadth and depth of this scheme, my inclination is not to minimize and call people Chicken Littles over it.  It was a dangerous idea that was not just mused over and lightly explored.

The end of his term had the patients running the insane asylum.  And if you bothered to just go read what you'd think would be "normal" political discussion like over in the Election Forum at Tigerdroppings, you'd realize how many more people that you'd have ever believed before were taking this s*** dead serious.  This wasn't the rantings of incels on 8chan or private Parler groups.

What Trump tried to do was scary and dangerous.  No amount of patronizing "it was never gonna happen" stuff changes that.   

[bigbird 60,368]

4 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

Oh, it doesn't prove anything with regards to your prior comments on what trump's refusal to acknowledge the election results mean.

Speaking of disingenuousness

5 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

I've yet to find an example of what I was talking about.

Why do you think I told you to quote me? Because the words you're trying so desperately to attribute to me don't exist.

 

What's pathetic is trying so hard to prove one wrong that you twist words, post nonsensical and unrelated quotes, and call names. I thought you better than that.

[McLoofus 35,182]

2 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

And if you bothered to just go read what you'd think would be "normal" political discussion like over in the Election Forum at Tigerdroppings, you'd realize how many more people that you'd have ever believed before were taking this s*** dead serious.  This wasn't the rantings of incels on 8chan or private Parler groups.

This is the part that shocked me. I wasn't surprised at trump's behavior. I was surprised at how low his supporters have fallen, and how many of them there still are. 

[McLoofus 35,182]

1 minute ago, bigbird said:

Why do you think I told you to quote me?

Why do you think I care? You told me? Hah!

I'm extremely comfortable with where I stand in this conversation. I'm sure you are, too. The difference between you and me is I'll acknowledge it when I'm not. 

[bigbird 60,368]

3 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

Why do you think I care? 

Because you continue to converse about it.

 

4 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

You told me? Hah!

Yes, in the post below. Strange you would claim otherwise.

1 hour ago, bigbird said:

Quote me. Should be easy.

 

5 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

I'm extremely comfortable with where I stand in this conversation.

Well, blind people don't mind the darkness.

 

8 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

The difference between you and me is I'll acknowledge it when I'm not.

When I get to the point that I am uncomfortable, I'll be sure to let you know. 

[TitanTiger 20,471]

10 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

This is the part that shocked me. I wasn't surprised at trump's behavior. I was surprised at how low his supporters have fallen, and how many of them there still are. 

Yeah, the rantings of a authoritarian lunatic are one thing.  That so many people you previously considered to be relatively normal bought into it and argued in favor of it is what shocks the hell out of you.