A Reckoning in six months...

[McLoofus 35,182]

1 minute ago, TitanTiger said:

Yeah, the rantings of a authoritarian lunatic are one thing.  That so many people you previously considered to be relatively normal bought into it and argued in favor of it is what shocks the hell out of you.

Exactly. 

[bigbird 60,480]

49 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

Yeah, the rantings of a authoritarian lunatic are one thing.  That so many people you previously considered to be relatively normal bought into it and argued in favor of it is what shocks the hell out of you.

Similarly, many can't believe that a lot of others bought into the notion that he could pull it off. 

The same people that told us for years he was dumb and incompetent suddenly believed in his ability and competency to pull off a monumental and unprecedented feat that would need to bypass all safeguards that have worked and been in place for hundreds of years. Those ideas don't logically work together. 

[TitanTiger 20,472]

2 minutes ago, bigbird said:

Similarly, many can't believe that a lot of others bought into the notion that he could pull it off. 

The same people that told us for years he was dumb and incompetent suddenly believed in his ability and competency to pull off a monumental and unprecedented feat that would need to bypass all safeguards that have worked and been in place for hundreds of years. Those ideas don't logically work together. 

I honestly haven't seen a ton of people (read: "any" tbh) who believed he'd be able to ultimately get away with it.  I'm sure they exist but they are vastly outnumbered by the ones who supported his efforts to do so.

What I mostly saw were people who were concerned about him following through with this effort would undermine democracy in the country and throw it into massive turmoil and civil unrest.  Most believe it would ultimately fail, but him being successful in the end was not what the vast majority were sounding their concerns about it over.

[wdefromtx 3,159]

4 minutes ago, bigbird said:

Similarly, many can't believe that a lot of others bought into the notion that he could pull it off. 

The same people that told us for years he was dumb and incompetent suddenly believed in his ability and competency to pull off a monumental and unprecedented feat that would need to bypass all safeguards that have worked and been in place for hundreds of years. Those ideas don't logically work together. 

This is very true as well. What he tried was bad, very bad. But, I never thought he would be able to pull it off and as such was not worried about a "coup." 

 

What I am more concerned with is that people on both sides seemed to be able to be manipulated to the point someone with greater acumen can get closer in the future.

[wdefromtx 3,159]

3 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

I honestly haven't seen a ton of people (read: "any" tbh) who believed he'd be able to ultimately get away with it.  I'm sure they exist but they are vastly outnumbered by the ones who supported his efforts to do so.

What I mostly saw were people who were concerned about him following through with this effort would undermine democracy in the country and throw it into massive turmoil and civil unrest.  Most believe it would ultimately fail, but him being successful in the end was not what the vast majority were sounding their concerns about it over.

Which if they were so concerned, that means they were concerned he would be successful on some level then. 

 

But, looks like they worried about a bunch of stuff that didn't happen. Democracy wasn't undermined, we didn't have massive turmoil and civil unrest. 

[TitanTiger 20,472]

5 minutes ago, wdefromtx said:

Which if they were so concerned, that means they were concerned he would be successful on some level then. 

It means that he would make a much more serious attempt and get some of the folks in Congress he needed to help him to do certain things.  Or that some judge or the SCOTUS would give air to his arguments.  In other words, he wouldn't just give up and he'd make a serious run and jamming this through and delaying the certification and such and that would possibly set off a powder keg.

And the siege on the Capitol itself is evidence that the powder keg part was definitely there waiting to be set off.

 

5 minutes ago, wdefromtx said:

But, looks like they worried about a bunch of stuff that didn't happen. Democracy wasn't undermined, we didn't have massive turmoil and civil unrest. 

They were rightly concerned about something that fortunately didn't happen.  It wasn't because it couldn't happen.

 

[homersapien 11,362]

2 hours ago, bigbird said:

Very grateful, indeed! Would've been an absolute tragedy.

 

Criticisms, based on hypotheticals and what ifs, rather than facts and working knowledge should, in fact, be criticized and called out.  

What happened was a tragedy.

If the second sentence refers to those of us who were warning Trump would continue to oppose the outcome of the election by claiming it was stolen from him, well, we were right. 

So I don't know what you mean by "hypotheticals" and "working knowledge"

Furthermore, I really don't understand why you are trying to make such a deal about the fact he was destined to fail - as if everyone criticizing him expected him to succeed. I - for one - certainly expected him to fail. 

That doesn't mean having a POTUS make an attempt at overturning an election is not something to get upset about. It should be part of any freedom-loving patriot's responsibility to get upset about that.  Extremely upset.  To simply expect the system to take care of itself without your input is simply lazy - if not outright irresponsible.

Seems to me the better place to focus your concern is on the number of people who apparently expected as well as wanted him to succeed.  Leave the "Hey, I'm Joe Cool and the rest of you are hysterical children act" to DKW.  After all, that's his schtick.

[DKW 86 7,419]

24 minutes ago, bigbird said:

Similarly, many can't believe that a lot of others bought into the notion that he could pull it off. 

The same people that told us for years he was dumb and incompetent suddenly believed in his ability and competency to pull off a monumental and unprecedented feat that would need to bypass all safeguards that have worked and been in place for hundreds of years. Those ideas don't logically work together. 

Until at least 6 months passes, you are wasting your time. 

1) The highly excitable dont think they are wrong at this point.
2) They few that have brains wont admit they were wrong for some time to come, after they cool down.
3) Revel in this Trump is gone and cant nothing stop it. Truth is, with our military, it was never really ever going to happen at any point.
4) A couple of hours over running a weak Capitol Police Force is one thing. Overrunning a Couple of National Guard Units or a full on USA Battalion or a USMC Battalion, that is completely on a scale no one around here is even thinking about.
5) To be blunt. Anyone that thinks or thought it was going to happen thru the actions of an incompetent old con artist that can barely dress himself is just fooling themselves. 

[wdefromtx 3,159]

1 minute ago, TitanTiger said:

It means that he would make a much more serious attempt and get some of the folks in Congress he needed to help him to do certain things.  Or that some judge or the SCOTUS would give air to his arguments.  In other words, he wouldn't just give up and he'd make a serious run and jamming this through and delaying the certification and such and that would possibly set off a powder keg.

And the siege on the Capitol itself is evidence that the powder keg part was definitely there waiting to be set off.

 

They were rightly concerned about something that fortunately didn't happen.  It wasn't because it couldn't happen.

 

So we agree, they were concerned about nothing in the end. All that matters is that it didn't happen. Some were rightly unconcerned about it, because it was obvious that it wasn't going to happen. 

 

Just because something is possible doesn't mean it is probable. That is why you have to look at the entire situation and know what you are dealing with. Is it possible that Biden tries to throw a coup to stay in power and be successful? Yeah, but it is not very probable. So why waste so much energy on being negative about something like that? 

 

Is it possible that the dems rigged the election with all these mail in votes? Yeah, but the probability is low. 

[TitanTiger 20,472]

Just now, wdefromtx said:

So we agree, they were concerned about nothing in the end.

No because you don't measure whether it's reasonable to be concerned about something only on the basis of whether it ended up happening.  If meteorologists at the National Weather Service issue a PDS warning for my area and I live in the zone that has "high" risk for multiple powerful tornadoes, whether or not it was reasonable to be worried, watching weather reports, making sure we have pillow and blankets and such for the place we'll huddle in the house is not determined by whether a tornado actually hits my house or whether in the end we don't see any tornadoes in our area.  

Being fortunate about something that ends up not happening after all is not the same thing as being worried about nothing.

 

 

 

[homersapien 11,362]

2 hours ago, TitanTiger said:

What Trump tried to do was scary and dangerous.  No amount of patronizing "it was never gonna happen" stuff changes that.   

And what he did was bad enough for the country.  It damaged our reputation for what may be generations and it gave our enemies a weapon to mock our democracy.

 

[wdefromtx 3,159]

12 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

No because you don't measure whether it's reasonable to be concerned about something only on the basis of whether it ended up happening.  If meteorologists at the National Weather Service issue a PDS warning for my area and I live in the zone that has "high" risk for multiple powerful tornadoes, whether or not it was reasonable to be worried, watching weather reports, making sure we have pillow and blankets and such for the place we'll huddle in the house is not determined by whether a tornado actually hits my house or whether in the end we don't see any tornadoes in our area.  

Being fortunate about something that ends up not happening after all is not the same thing as being worried about nothing.

 

 

 

Let me rephrase it then....they worried about something that didn’t happen. 
 

On the flip side, folks didn’t worry about it because they looked at the entire situation and realized it wasn’t going to happen. 
 

The way I see it, is if you felt compelled to worry about it do so. If you didn’t, like myself and others don’t. Both side has a legitimate reason for their thinking as to have been concerned about it or not. It’s pretty simple. 

[homersapien 11,362]

2 hours ago, bigbird said:

What's pathetic is trying so hard to prove one wrong that you twist words, post nonsensical and unrelated quotes, and call names. I thought you better than that.

Care to call out exactly who was genuinely afraid Trump would succeed in a coup?

Or is that just a straw man used for the purpose of trying to appear mature, level-headed and wise while everyone else is doing a "chicken little" (as DKW might say)?

Just asking.

[TitanTiger 20,472]

4 minutes ago, wdefromtx said:

Let me rephrase it then....they worried about something that didn’t happen. 
 

On the flip side, folks didn’t worry about it because they looked at the entire situation and realized it wasn’t going to happen.

And in both cases, they were fortunate.  This could have gone a very different route.  It wasn't an impossibility or something stupid to even have concern about.

 

Quote

The way I see it, is if you felt compelled to worry about it do so. If you didn’t, like myself and others don’t. Both side has a legitimate reason for their thinking as to have been concerned about it or not. It’s pretty simple. 

Then don't join in the chorus of people being patronizing and dismissive of folks who were flashing warning signs about his behavior and the behavior of his most ardent followers.

[homersapien 11,362]

1 hour ago, bigbird said:

Similarly, many can't believe that a lot of others bought into the notion that he could pull it off. 

 

The only people that fall into that category are MAGAs - like the ones who attacked the capitol.

[McLoofus 35,182]

4 minutes ago, homersapien said:

Care to call out exactly who was genuinely afraid Trump would succeed in a coup?

Or is that just a straw man used for the purpose of trying to appear mature, level-headed and wise while everyone else is doing a "chicken little" (as DKW might say)?

Just asking.

You noticed that too, huh?

 

[homersapien 11,362]

1 hour ago, bigbird said:

The same people that told us for years he was dumb and incompetent suddenly believed in his ability and competency to pull off a monumental and unprecedented feat that would need to bypass all safeguards that have worked and been in place for hundreds of years. Those ideas don't logically work together. 

No, they - or at least I -  believed in his capacity to do exactly what he did,  which resulted in a huge amount of damage to our country - damage which will continue, since he is obviously going to continue to double down on the "stolen election" ploy for future political purposes.

[homersapien 11,362]

27 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

You noticed that too, huh?

 

Hell, to be honest, part of me was hoping for a more successful coup effort than the flop we witnessed.  I was looking forward to seeing armed MAGAs face off against - for example - the 82nd Airborne.

If these a**holes really want an armed insurrection, I say give 'em one. 

(Of course that would have been even worse for the country.) 

[TitanTiger 20,472]

1 hour ago, bigbird said:

The same people that told us for years he was dumb and incompetent suddenly believed in his ability and competency to pull off a monumental and unprecedented feat that would need to bypass all safeguards that have worked and been in place for hundreds of years. Those ideas don't logically work together. 

For the record, when I've used the word "incompetent" to describe Trump, it was in reference to the demands of the job of President.  And I stand by that assessment.  He was wholly unsuited and incapable of doing the job.  I didn't mean he couldn't count past ten without taking his shoes off.  And I certainly didn't mean that he couldn't concoct (with help of course) sinister schemes to use his power to benefit himself or to grasp for more power.

[homersapien 11,362]

24 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

And in both cases, they were fortunate.  This could have gone a very different route.  It wasn't an impossibility or something stupid to even have concern about.

Then don't join in the chorus of people being patronizing and dismissive of folks who were flashing warning signs about his behavior and the behavior of his most ardent followers.

I don't understand how people can take so much pride in their complacency. 

Being indifferent to a president denying the results of a valid election is certainly nothing to take pride in.

[McLoofus 35,182]

5 minutes ago, homersapien said:

Hell, to be honest, part of me was hoping for a more successful coup effort than the flop we witnessed.  I was looking forward to seeing armed MAGAs face off against, for example, the 82 Airborne.

If these a**holes really want an armed insurrection, I say give 'em one.  (Of course that would have been even worse for the country.) 

My concern with that is that the 82 Airborne would actually have to be called in. Like the National Guard that was not called in before the rally, much less immediately once they began attacking the Capitol.

A handful of cops. That's what was protecting the Capitol against a huge mob that was summoned to Washington to protest what was happening that day inside the Capitol after months of POTUS telling said mob that what was happening in the Capitol was wrong. 

But hey, we've got safeguards!

[wdefromtx 3,159]

2 minutes ago, homersapien said:

I don't understand how people can take so much pride in their complacency. 

Being indifferent to a president denying the results of a valid election is certainly nothing to take pride in.

Realizing that Trump will not be able to overturn the results or throw a successful coup attempt is not even close to complacency. One can condemn what he tried to do, while realizing it had no chance of succeeding. 

[homersapien 11,362]

26 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

You noticed that too, huh?

 

Nothing like a straw man to prop up your ego.

[homersapien 11,362]

9 minutes ago, wdefromtx said:

Realizing that Trump will not be able to overturn the results or throw a successful coup attempt is not even close to complacency. One can condemn what he tried to do, while realizing it had no chance of succeeding. 

It is - relatively speaking - if you have an indifferent response while characterizing Trump's vocal opponents as being "chickens little". 

[wdefromtx 3,159]

34 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

And in both cases, they were fortunate.  This could have gone a very different route.  It wasn't an impossibility or something stupid to even have concern about.

 

Then don't join in the chorus of people being patronizing and dismissive of folks who were flashing warning signs about his behavior and the behavior of his most ardent followers.

You are right about the first part, we were fortunate it wasn't worse. We are also fortunate Biden won because had Trump won who knows how much civil unrest there would have been as well.