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Amazing how pedestrian and flustered a great QB can look


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38 minutes ago, Barnacle said:

Yeah the criticism of JJ was pretty much universal. Such a sharp and sudden downfall. Bo's issues have been more of a slow burn, although Florida 2019 was arguably as bad a product as Jeremy ever put on the field. 

I agree with this but one thing Bo has gotten a pass on that is the go to on this board is the read defense talk......

I bring that up because him going to this new offense....I think it determines if he is good or not next year

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…when his line can’t keep pressure off of him and he loses confidence in them. 

JJ never saw a DB he didn’t want to throw to.

Mahomes is an other worldly athlete.  I'm not putting Bo Nix on the same plane with him.  What I am saying is that even the best QB of his generation can look flustered, inaccurate, bail on the pocket

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3 minutes ago, Stephen66 said:

This is just excuse-making for Nix.

It's been alot of that. But in this thread he's being critiqued but also realistic in obstacles he has had to over come. I think everybody in here so far has been pretty legit..........so far

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Just now, cole256 said:

I agree with this but one thing Bo has gotten a pass on that is the go to on this board is the read defense talk......

I bring that up because him going to this new offense....I think it determines if he is good or not next year

His whole world is about to flip. I think they are going to set the bar really high for him. 

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29 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

Akron, Alabama State, at Penn State, Georgia State. 

Could work out really well for him!

I'm glad it's Alabama st and not Jackson state!

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10 minutes ago, cole256 said:

I don't know how I missed this but absolutely my favorite podcast. I think Matt Barnes is the best interviewer in the game

Yep and Stephen Jackson is getting a lot better 

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1 minute ago, Barnacle said:

His whole world is about to flip. I think they are going to set the bar really high for him. 

I agree. And that's why I kept harping on fundamentals. It's not spite my biggest worry is he can have that stuff down enough so he can focus on learning the actual playbook. Can't spend a bunch of time on other stuff.

If it was me, but I'm obsessive and that helped me greatly with sports, but if it's me I've already googled and researched and been out with my wr's getting chemistry man my mind right

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My last post just made me think of something. Shout out to gatewood. His jump to even challenge probably just came from sheer will and work. I know he would get guys together and work on his throwing alot......That's what you call a competitor. Even though you know you're not getting what you need and all the cards are saying Bo was going to be the QB no matter what.....he competed and made a tremendous jump

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On 2/7/2021 at 10:08 PM, TitanTiger said:

…when his line can’t keep pressure off of him and he loses confidence in them. 

So we are completely ignoring passes that were dropped that hit WRs in the hands, face mask, and between the numbers.

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I do think that perhaps one benefit that Nix has that JJ and some of the earlier qb’s didn’t have is the larger perspective that Gus just couldn’t develop qb’s worth a flip. To the casual fan, early on in Gus’ tenure that would have been much harder to see which would have made it muuuuch easier to “blame” the player.

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2 hours ago, wde1968 said:

So we are completely ignoring passes that were dropped that hit WRs in the hands, face mask, and between the numbers.

Which also happened many times this past season with Bo. My point still stands. 

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12 hours ago, Tiger Refuge said:

I do think that perhaps one benefit that Nix has that JJ and some of the earlier qb’s didn’t have is the larger perspective that Gus just couldn’t develop qb’s worth a flip. To the casual fan, early on in Gus’ tenure that would have been much harder to see which would have made it muuuuch easier to “blame” the player.

Great point!

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13 hours ago, Tiger Refuge said:

I do think that perhaps one benefit that Nix has that JJ and some of the earlier qb’s didn’t have is the larger perspective that Gus just couldn’t develop qb’s worth a flip. To the casual fan, early on in Gus’ tenure that would have been much harder to see which would have made it muuuuch easier to “blame” the player.

I always think about this anytime there is a Nix debate. Look at all the talented QBs Malzahn had to work with. With the exception of (maybe) Nick Marshall, literally none of them progressed. I think Nix had a decent year as a true freshman, but definitely regressed this past year and even his mechanics got worse. There's a whole lot of things that you can point the finger at, but I do feel the above post is the root of it. 

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3 hours ago, Browning4AU said:

I always think about this anytime there is a Nix debate. Look at all the talented QBs Malzahn had to work with. With the exception of (maybe) Nick Marshall, literally none of them progressed. I think Nix had a decent year as a true freshman, but definitely regressed this past year and even his mechanics got worse. There's a whole lot of things that you can point the finger at, but I do feel the above post is the root of it. 

If coaching was the root of the problem then there’s reason for optimism that Bo can get better and that’s all most of us backing Bo are saying.

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3 hours ago, Browning4AU said:

I always think about this anytime there is a Nix debate. Look at all the talented QBs Malzahn had to work with. With the exception of (maybe) Nick Marshall, literally none of them progressed. I think Nix had a decent year as a true freshman, but definitely regressed this past year and even his mechanics got worse. There's a whole lot of things that you can point the finger at, but I do feel the above post is the root of it. 

Question: When players do not progress ( their individual skill levels) should the position coach own that or HC?

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1 hour ago, Hank2020 said:

Question: When players do not progress ( their individual skill levels) should the position coach own that or HC?

It depends on the position and the coach. I would say an offensive minded head coach is going to be closely measured by their qb’s success or failure. In Gus’ case, this was exacerbated by his unwillingness to allow his qb’s to seek outside specialized coaching. 

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17 hours ago, TitanTiger said:

Which also happened many times this past season with Bo. My point still stands. 

Maybe, maybe not depends on the actual tally. People exaggerate. I mean I know drops happened. But I also know guys made incredible catches for him as well that would have been drops 90% of the time

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2 hours ago, Hank2020 said:

Question: When players do not progress ( their individual skill levels) should the position coach own that or HC?

The fact of the matter is, we know that GM was heavily involved in play calling, offensive planning and QB development. So in this instance is it hard to consider that GM filled both roles as it applies to QBs during his tenure? There have been plenty of OCs/QB coaches come and go but the only common denominator has been Malzahn. 

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2 hours ago, Tiger Refuge said:

It depends on the position and the coach. I would say an offensive minded head coach is going to be closely measured by their qb’s success or failure. In Gus’ case, this was exacerbated by his unwillingness to allow his qb’s to seek outside specialized coaching. 

Thx for the answer. I have not seen this standard evenly applied for example successful LB play at AU recently has given position coach all the credit rather than the DC ( who coached LB in the past and brought the defensive scheme).

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42 minutes ago, Browning4AU said:

The fact of the matter is, we know that GM was heavily involved in play calling, offensive planning and QB development. So in this instance is it hard to consider that GM filled both roles as it applies to QBs during his tenure? There have been plenty of OCs/QB coaches come and go but the only common denominator has been Malzahn. 

I don’t know all that as a “fact”. I can definitely see the play calling and offensive system and planning. I’m just not so sure that the last 2 QB coaches don’t own a good bit of responsibility around QB progress.

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16 hours ago, Hank2020 said:

I don’t know all that as a “fact”. I can definitely see the play calling and offensive system and planning. I’m just not so sure that the last 2 QB coaches don’t own a good bit of responsibility around QB progress.

They're facts. Gus micromanaged every aspect of the offense. I know you might not have seen that reported by any sources you consider reputable and I understand your skepticism, but they're facts. 

He had 4 different OCs, and Nick Marshall was the only QB- out of 6, if you count JFIII- in 8 seasons who consistently played good football and got (a tiny bit) better. No surprise given that he was the first, he was a transfer, and he had the distinct advantage of being in an offense- staffed by talent that Chizik recruited, primarily experienced, stud offensive linemen the likes of which we haven't seen since- the league needed a minute to adjust to. 

Two key hires will tell you everything you need to know. First, Gus replaced Dameyune Craig- a guy who, for whatever flaws he has, was actually willing to challenge Gus and bring a different perspective to meetings- with Kodi Burns. Not sure if you're familiar with Kodi's resume at the time, but he was.... not Dameyune Craig. Second, look at what he did when Herb Hand- a former Gus associate- made a lateral move to get away from Gus. He went straight to JB Grimes. There were bonafide studs and hungry, young guys available but Gus didn't even consider them. He went straight back to his old buddy who had already been retired from Auburn once and who was ... not coaching high level football or showing promise as an energetic recruiter. To say the absolutely very leastest possible.

Plenty of other examples- Dillingham, even Morris and Caddy; not letting QBs work with private coaches until the last couple years- but you get the point. Gus didn't want other, new ideas introduced into his offense. He wanted to be surrounded by old friends and young guys with no voice. He wanted nothing but yes men on his offensive staff. It's all on him. All of it. 

 

 

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On 2/8/2021 at 9:03 AM, cole256 said:

My thing really isn't about Bo.....he hasn't come close to measuring up as a 5 star stud program changer.....but ok. That's very hard to do and once in a generation type talent to do so. It sucks but it's no big deal. 

But the way we have been at countless other QB's. JJ bash worst QB ever (his one season stats comparable to Bo) completion percentage, td int ratio,.even when you look at their worst games mistakes....backward pass, Bo on 4 th down doesn't know to throw the ball tries to run......NM is a corner not a QB (more accurate than Bo) sw physically wasn't good, jf3 and Malik Willis didn't even deserve to run a play at QB (Willis looks to be much better than anything we've had lately) stidham is scary and doesn't care and all that........

But we can't even discuss the Golden child......talk about him needing to improve it's bashing him. I challenge anybody to find 5 posts bashing Bo from a credible poster on this site. Must be nice

I find it funny that 3 people disliked this. I wish the guys that do this would try to debate anything I said being wrong. Unfortunately I have the same people follow my every move and do this and let's just say none of them have the reputation of actually talking football.

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2 hours ago, McLoofus said:

They're facts. Gus micromanaged every aspect of the offense. I know you might not have seen that reported by any sources you consider reputable and I understand your skepticism, but they're facts. 

He had 4 different OCs, and Nick Marshall was the only QB- out of 6, if you count JFIII- in 8 seasons who consistently played good football and got (a tiny bit) better. No surprise given that he was the first, he was a transfer, and he had the distinct advantage of being in an offense- staffed by talent that Chizik recruited, primarily experienced, stud offensive linemen the likes of which we haven't seen since- the league needed a minute to adjust to. 

Two key hires will tell you everything you need to know. First, Gus replaced Dameyune Craig- a guy who, for whatever flaws he has, was actually willing to challenge Gus and bring a different perspective to meetings- with Kodi Burns. Not sure if you're familiar with Kodi's resume at the time, but he was.... not Dameyune Craig. Second, look at what he did when Herb Hand- a former Gus associate- made a lateral move to get away from Gus. He went straight to JB Grimes. There were bonafide studs and hungry, young guys available but Gus didn't even consider them. He went straight back to his old buddy who had already been retired from Auburn once and who was ... not coaching high level football or showing promise as an energetic recruiter. To say the absolutely very leastest possible.

Plenty of other examples- Dillingham, even Morris and Caddy; not letting QBs work with private coaches until the last couple years- but you get the point. Gus didn't want other, new ideas introduced into his offense. He wanted to be surrounded by old friends and young guys with no voice. He wanted nothing but yes men on his offensive staff. It's all on him. All of it. 

 

 

 

2 hours ago, McLoofus said:

They're facts. Gus micromanaged every aspect of the offense. I know you might not have seen that reported by any sources you consider reputable and I understand your skepticism, but they're facts. 

He had 4 different OCs, and Nick Marshall was the only QB- out of 6, if you count JFIII- in 8 seasons who consistently played good football and got (a tiny bit) better. No surprise given that he was the first, he was a transfer, and he had the distinct advantage of being in an offense- staffed by talent that Chizik recruited, primarily experienced, stud offensive linemen the likes of which we haven't seen since- the league needed a minute to adjust to. 

Two key hires will tell you everything you need to know. First, Gus replaced Dameyune Craig- a guy who, for whatever flaws he has, was actually willing to challenge Gus and bring a different perspective to meetings- with Kodi Burns. Not sure if you're familiar with Kodi's resume at the time, but he was.... not Dameyune Craig. Second, look at what he did when Herb Hand- a former Gus associate- made a lateral move to get away from Gus. He went straight to JB Grimes. There were bonafide studs and hungry, young guys available but Gus didn't even consider them. He went straight back to his old buddy who had already been retired from Auburn once and who was ... not coaching high level football or showing promise as an energetic recruiter. To say the absolutely very leastest possible.

Plenty of other examples- Dillingham, even Morris and Caddy; not letting QBs work with private coaches until the last couple years- but you get the point. Gus didn't want other, new ideas introduced into his offense. He wanted to be surrounded by old friends and young guys with no voice. He wanted nothing but yes men on his offensive staff. It's all on him. All of it. 

 

 

Thx for that explanation. The only “fact” I was pushing back on was QB development. Two of the main obvious ( to me, an inexperienced eye) needs of improvement are “throwing discipline” and exiting the pocket timing. It would seem that these are the items the last 2 position coaches should have worked on heavily so own some of that lack of progress. 

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8 minutes ago, Hank2020 said:

Thx for that explanation. The only “fact” I was pushing back on was QB development. Two of the main obvious ( to me, an inexperienced eye) needs of improvement are “throwing discipline” and exiting the pocket timing. It would seem that these are the items the last 2 position coaches should have worked on heavily so own some of that lack of progress. 

Copy that and apologies. Not the first time I've responded to something that was unintended or even unsaid as opposed to the main point. 

Nothing unfair about what you're saying. But I think it's hard for a lot of us to look at the consistent trends going back to Lashlee and across as many QBs and not focus on the only common denominator. (Particularly given the similar parameters applying to every other position on offense except RB.) 

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3 hours ago, McLoofus said:

Copy that and apologies. Not the first time I've responded to something that was unintended or even unsaid as opposed to the main point. 

Nothing unfair about what you're saying. But I think it's hard for a lot of us to look at the consistent trends going back to Lashlee and across as many QBs and not focus on the only common denominator. (Particularly given the similar parameters applying to every other position on offense except RB.) 

Certainly can’t argue with that and probably part of why we have a new coach.

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