Amazing how pedestrian and flustered a great QB can look

[bigbird 60,491]

8 minutes ago, Tigerpro2a said:

Stidham? Frazier? 

Golf

[cole256 17,043]

1 hour ago, Tigerpro2a said:

Stidham? Frazier? 

It's just my opinion so don't kill me but I think this is one of the biggest flaws we carry as a fan base. We hype the hell out of players. QB's especially. We try to make good players all league, all league all Americans and all Americans professional. 

[Tigerpro2a 5,650]

2 minutes ago, cole256 said:

It's just my opinion so don't kill me but I think this is one of the biggest flaws we carry as a fan base. We hype the hell out of players. QB's especially. We try to make good players all league, all league all Americans and all Americans professional. 

There is definitely truth to that. We as fans usually tend to look through the Orange and Blue shades. I think this is true of nearly every fan base. The exception being the Bamas of the world because most of their players actually turn out to be All World Beaters lol. I was just curious as to who in particular you were referring to, if anybody, being hyped up like JJ was. The crazy thing about JJ though, to cut fans some slack, was most of the media was hyping him up. He was a Heisman favorite all preseason. When fans see and hear that everywhere they look it is difficult not to fall into that trap. Unfortunately for all parties involved, that dog didn't hunt, though. 

[Barnacle 9,064]

Scheme and coaching have limited our QB's ceilings, to be sure, but there are fair criticisms to be made of basically every quarterback under Gus. Jeremy Johnson had issues that went well beyond coaching, and I'm surprised to see anyone arguing otherwise. 

[McLoofus 35,182]

23 minutes ago, Barnacle said:

Scheme and coaching have limited our QB's ceilings, to be sure, but there are fair criticisms to be made of basically every quarterback under Gus. Jeremy Johnson had issues that went well beyond coaching, and I'm surprised to see anyone arguing otherwise. 

Here's one thing with him, and I did bring it up in the aftermath of 2015, but I'm not sure how many people also saw it and it's hard to dig it up now. But his high school coach said that he basically got the yips one season and just completely spaced on how to play QB. And then it went away and he became the JJ we recruited and the one who played that amazing half of ball against Arkansas. But then it sure seemed to happen again.

So that leads me to a couple thoughts. One, no, JJ probably wasn't wired to deal with extreme adversity like some of the best. And that 2015 situation absolutely qualified as extreme adversity, even beyond his own struggles. But, two, he might've been wired to be everything we thought he was if he'd gotten the chance to work through some early stuff with adequate coaching and in an adequate offense. 

I don't think he had a long, successful NFL career ahead of him, but I do wonder if he couldn't have been a good college QB elsewhere. 

[Barnacle 9,064]

8 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

Here's one thing with him, and I did bring it up in the aftermath of 2015, but I'm not sure how many people also saw it and it's hard to dig it up now. But his high school coach said that he basically got the yips one season and just completely spaced on how to play QB. And then it went away and he became the JJ we recruited and the one who played that amazing half of ball against Arkansas. But then it sure seemed to happen again.

So that leads me to a couple thoughts. One, no, JJ probably wasn't wired to deal with extreme adversity like some of the best. And that 2015 situation absolutely qualified as extreme adversity, even beyond his own struggles. But, two, he might've been wired to be everything we thought he was if he'd gotten the chance to work through some early stuff with adequate coaching and in an adequate offense. 

I don't think he had a long, successful NFL career ahead of him, but I do wonder if he couldn't have been a good college QB elsewhere. 

I recall you sharing that story a time or two, and it lines up with conversations I had with people at Carver in 2015. I think its definitely possible that JJ could have excelled in another system, but I don't think it would have happened in the SEC, and certainly not at Auburn. There is no questioning the ability, but I think you are right about the way he was wired. Lack of confidence, poor body language, poor decision making, compounding of errors, etc. People like to rag Bo about escaping clean pockets (rightfully so), but JJ had a similar problem - not happy feet, but a happy arm - the compulsion to throw the ball despite a lack of pressure or an open receiver. It always appeared to me that the game moved a little too fast for him, and he made a lot of panicked throws when his first read wasn't open. Obviously, we won't ever know what his full potential could have been, and I agree with @bigbird that it is sometimes hard to evaluate Gus' quarterbacks because of the limitations of his system. I always liked Jeremy, and I respected him for finishing his career at Auburn, although I wish we could have seen him in the portal era, and maybe he could have proved some of his doubters wrong. 

Also, earlier today I went back and read some old posts from 2015. I found this gem: 

 

[McLoofus 35,182]

13 minutes ago, Barnacle said:

I recall you sharing that story a time or two, and it lines up with conversations I had with people at Carver in 2015. I think its definitely possible that JJ could have excelled in another system, but I don't think it would have happened in the SEC, and certainly not at Auburn. There is no questioning the ability, but I think you are right about the way he was wired. Lack of confidence, poor body language, poor decision making, compounding of errors, etc. People like to rag Bo about escaping clean pockets (rightfully so), but JJ had a similar problem - not happy feet, but a happy arm - the compulsion to throw the ball despite a lack of pressure or an open receiver. It always appeared to me that the game moved a little too fast for him, and he made a lot of panicked throws when his first read wasn't open. Obviously, we won't ever know what his full potential could have been, and I agree with @bigbird that it is sometimes hard to evaluate Gus' quarterbacks because of the limitations of his system. I always liked Jeremy, and I respected him for finishing his career at Auburn, although I wish we could have seen him in the portal era, and maybe he could have proved some of his doubters wrong. 

Also, earlier today I went back and read some old posts from 2015. I found this gem: 

 

I... do not remember writing that. Love your response! Hahahaha

As for what I saw when skimming the rest of the thread... yeah... we've got different standards for different players around here. 

[Barnacle 9,064]

15 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

I... do not remember writing that. Love your response! Hahahaha

As for what I saw when skimming the rest of the thread... yeah... we've got different standards for different players around here. 

Yeah the fan base turned on him quickly and sharply. Fueled by Gus's brilliant PR strategy of propping JJ up as a surefire NFL prospect. You have to think JJ was reading his own press, before and after, and I would wager he was very hurt. 

[Dual-Threat Rigby 8,662]

1 hour ago, McLoofus said:

But his high school coach said that he basically got the yips one season and just completely spaced on how to play QB.

I actually never heard of this lol

I feel like this should've been the biggest narrative in this town and surrounding this team back then 

[Dual-Threat Rigby 8,662]

One common theme, and I guess you can attribute it to a chicken vs egg thing, but Frazier, Jeremy, Stidham and Nix. That's 4 QBs out of the last...7? that have had substantial mental lapses when it came to the game. I didn't count Sean bc those issues didn't 100% relate to the game

Those 4 would probably have an average rating of a mid 4 star, almost flirting with a 5, I would imagine lol. There's no way Gus just found 4 4+ star QBs that were prone to being easily mentally shaken right??? 

[Dual-Threat Rigby 8,662]

not to even speak of that Pike kid who disappeared off the face of the earth 

[DAG 33,973]

1 hour ago, Barnacle said:

I recall you sharing that story a time or two, and it lines up with conversations I had with people at Carver in 2015. I think its definitely possible that JJ could have excelled in another system, but I don't think it would have happened in the SEC, and certainly not at Auburn. There is no questioning the ability, but I think you are right about the way he was wired. Lack of confidence, poor body language, poor decision making, compounding of errors, etc. People like to rag Bo about escaping clean pockets (rightfully so), but JJ had a similar problem - not happy feet, but a happy arm - the compulsion to throw the ball despite a lack of pressure or an open receiver. It always appeared to me that the game moved a little too fast for him, and he made a lot of panicked throws when his first read wasn't open. Obviously, we won't ever know what his full potential could have been, and I agree with @bigbird that it is sometimes hard to evaluate Gus' quarterbacks because of the limitations of his system. I always liked Jeremy, and I respected him for finishing his career at Auburn, although I wish we could have seen him in the portal era, and maybe he could have proved some of his doubters wrong. 

Also, earlier today I went back and read some old posts from 2015. I found this gem: 

 

What I find that is interesting is that more people were critical of JJ then I have ever seen with Bo. Some one a little bit harsher but majority were able to objectively bring something to the table. 

[toddc 13,194]

40 minutes ago, Dual-Threat Rigby said:

not to even speak of that Pike kid who disappeared off the face of the earth 

I think he had major off-field issues and there was an article some time back, but I can’t remember where I saw it. That horrible old man disease. 😝 

[cole256 17,043]

1 hour ago, McLoofus said:

I... do not remember writing that. Love your response! Hahahaha

As for what I saw when skimming the rest of the thread... yeah... we've got different standards for different players around here. 

Thank you! All I was saying that's all. 

[Barnacle 9,064]

11 minutes ago, DAG said:

What I find that is interesting is that more people were critical of JJ then I have ever seen with Bo. Some one a little bit harsher but majority were able to objectively bring something to the table. 

Yeah the criticism of JJ was pretty much universal. Such a sharp and sudden downfall. Bo's issues have been more of a slow burn, although Florida 2019 was arguably as bad a product as Jeremy ever put on the field. 

[McLoofus 35,182]

1 minute ago, cole256 said:

Thank you! All I was saying that's all. 

Yes sir. I see you. Wish that was worth more to you, though, haha. 

[McLoofus 35,182]

46 minutes ago, Dual-Threat Rigby said:

I actually never heard of this lol

I feel like this should've been the biggest narrative in this town and surrounding this team back then 

I was really surprised it didn't get discussed more. I mean, maybe it means nothing, but it would at least offer some insight where it seems many of us had none. 

[cole256 17,043]

And I didn't want to bring him up because for whatever reason even though I wasn't wrong when I talk QB play I'm always second guessed.....But you saw those stats them put together it's damn near creepy. But Johnson is the pick monster. Bo is more athletic if White wasn't but he didn't really throw down field. They all have their short comings but they all averaged out around the same production.

So that means I could certainly argue if they were all coached up they all could have been great. 

[McLoofus 35,182]

45 minutes ago, Dual-Threat Rigby said:

There's no way Gus just found 4 4+ star QBs that were prone to being easily mentally shaken right??? 

Exactly.

I think at this point we all agree that each QB had (has) flaws that were greatly exacerbated here. I think the only disagreements are to what degree each one was (is) flawed and how the conversations around them (and other players) are viewed. 

[cole256 17,043]

And what's crazy is the difference is expectations. We thought we were supposed to kill Louisville

We didn't know if we could beat Oregon or not. Both games it turned out we are playing future NFL starsat QB. 

Different reactions from fans, but that is really what puts the most pressure on a kid.

This is the most pressure Bo has been under coming up. Who do we start out with? A couple of easy games would be very beneficial in our current situation

[McLoofus 35,182]

4 minutes ago, cole256 said:

And what's crazy is the difference is expectations. We thought we were supposed to kill Louisville

We didn't know if we could beat Oregon or not. Both games it turned out we are playing future NFL starsat QB. 

Different reactions from fans, but that is really what puts the most pressure on a kid.

This is the most pressure Bo has been under coming up. Who do we start out with? A couple of easy games would be very beneficial in our current situation

Akron, Alabama State, at Penn State, Georgia State. 

Could work out really well for him!

[cole256 17,043]

3 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

Akron, Alabama State, at Penn State, Georgia State. 

Could work out really well for him!

That's heaven sent. That's two games to get ready for a Penn State we have talent enough to beat. He should be comfortable and if not in command of offense a great feel with our strengths and weaknesses

 

On 9/12/2015 at 7:27 PM, cole256 said:

Not just jj. Entire o has to get better. JJ is constantly on third and longs. We haven't really offered or established an outside threat as far as a run. Our wr's has dropped passes. We're not as explosive at the wr position it seems. There's alot going on right now on o

Look at this. Me trying to be the good poster......who can really blame me when the same guys who killed me then now get mad when I don't want to hear it now. I mean I'm a human. There's only so much you can really take 😂

[Tigerpro2a 5,650]

12 minutes ago, cole256 said:

That's heaven sent. That's two games to get ready for a Penn State we have talent enough to beat. He should be comfortable and if not in command of offense a great feel with our strengths and weaknesses

 

Add to that hopefully with new staff we aren't in a 4 game evaluation period like 4 game Gus always had us in. I think Bo has a good chance to succeed this year with the schedule and better coaching, and with that is definitely a good bit of pressure. 

[cole256 17,043]

On 2/9/2021 at 11:54 AM, DAG said:

I honestly very rarely watch skip and Shannon. I listen to podcast or look at YouTube now for my entertainment purposes . For example look at Matt Barnes and Stephen Jackson with all da smoke. They got a bag from showtime I believe because they have incredible guest , all due to their objectivity and built up relationships. I mean they had one of Kobe’s last interviews. Shannon has also went that route . 

I don't know how I missed this but absolutely my favorite podcast. I think Matt Barnes is the best interviewer in the game

[Stephen66 51]

This is just excuse-making for Nix.