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Vaccine passport on the way?


SLAG-91

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7 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

There are a lot of healthcare professionals who don't like the trendlines.  Cases are up 12% in the last week or two.  No one wants a fourth wave.  And she's not demanding anything here - just asking people not to let up too early.  We are very close to getting in front of this as vaccine production and distribution ramps up.  But what we don't need are people doing buckwild acting like this is over.  It's not.  Not yet.  We need to squash this thing before another surge happens to prevent more and more variants from evolving.

Let’s see, we have learned over the last year the cases surge after about 2 week of exposure.  In June of last year, after Memorial Day and George Floyd, the cases spiked, so we know there must have been an exposure somewhere, but where.  Could it be Spring Break?  Or maybe our Southern Border where illegal immigration is unchecked and several immigrants have crossed with COVID.  

Of course, the CDC would be all over that, right?  So it can’t be coming from there and if it were they would institute contact tracing and isolation for sure.  But wait, we don’t even know who or where the Covid positive immigrants are.  For some reason the Biden Administration is not concerned with Covid while protesting or illegal border crossings.  Only when an American citizen is not wearing a 😷.  You really can’t make this up.  

If this doesn’t prove the Democrats would not have done any better at controlling the epidemic, nothing does.  Biden was going to wipe out this virus, but instead he has enhanced the spread.  One has to ask; why have a border crisis during a pandemic he vowed to eliminate?  Hey, but he is such a nice guy and we’re back to normal, almost.

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31 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

There are a lot of healthcare professionals who don't like the trendlines.  Cases are up 12% in the last week or two.  No one wants a fourth wave.  And she's not demanding anything here - just asking people not to let up too early.  We are very close to getting in front of this as vaccine production and distribution ramps up.  But what we don't need are people doing buckwild acting like this is over.  It's not.  Not yet.  We need to squash this thing before another surge happens to prevent more and more variants from evolving.

There are better ways to communicate that than saying something as over-the-top as "impending doom." It was pretty much all emotion.

We hear all of these dire pronouncements, and after a while people tune it out.

It's like Fauci saying that kids shouldn't play with each other without masks until they are vaccinated. Kids as a collective are at the end of the line for needing this vaccination. 

I'll say this for the guy: Every woman should aspire to marry someone that loves her as much as Fauci loves Fauci.

Edited by SLAG-91
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22 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

There are a lot of healthcare professionals who don't like the trendlines.  Cases are up 12% in the last week or two.  No one wants a fourth wave.  And she's not demanding anything here - just asking people not to let up too early.  We are very close to getting in front of this as vaccine production and distribution ramps up.  But what we don't need are people doing buckwild acting like this is over.  It's not.  Not yet.  We need to squash this thing before another surge happens to prevent more and more variants from evolving.

The fact that you actually believe what you just wrote is frightening.

Newsflash: this will NEVER go away. It'll just be a "new variant" or they'll just cherry-pick the data to paint the picture that they want to paint. Oh yeah, and they'll just silence and censor the THOUSANDS of "healthcare professionals" who outright disagree with the state-mandated "messaging". There's a widely-cited Harvard epidemiologist who is being actively censored by Twitter for giving his expertise on who should or shouldn't require vaccination (hint: he is of the opinion that that there is absolutely no need to vaccinate children or those who have already had COVID - a very common sense conclusion in epidemiology). 

Once you give these people power, you think they're going to freely hand it back? It goes against human nature. You have CDC and WHO directors who no one knew the names of a year ago who are now global "health celebrities". You think they want to go back to studying malaria or ebola in Africa lmao? 

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https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2021/03/30/dont-believe-conservative-fearmongering-over-vaccine-passports/

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Don’t believe conservative fearmongering over vaccine passports

 

In Israel, where over half the population is fully vaccinated against the coronavirus, people are eagerly going back to restaurants, gyms and theaters. In many cases, all they need to do is flash a “green pass,” also called a vaccine passport (you can get it on paper or on your smartphone) and they’re free to do almost all the things they haven’t been able to do for the past year.

 

People there seem to love it. The European Union is also planning to create a vaccine passport to enable travel between countries.

Now, a vaccine passport might be coming to the United States. And conservatives are up in arms at this supposedly terrifying new threat to the freedom they always believe is moments away from being stolen from them.

 

There are some legitimate questions about how worthwhile and practical vaccine passports would be in a country the size of the United States. But some on the right clearly see this as an opportunity to stir up culture-war anger and continue their revisionist history project around the covid-19 pandemic.

 

How can you tell? Because so much of what they’re saying about vaccine passports is so dumb.

As of now, multiple private and nonprofit organizations and coalitions are working to develop standards that a passport could use. The administration is trying to coordinate these efforts, but if a passport comes to fruition it “will be driven by the private sector,” said White House press secretary Jen Psaki. “Ours will more be focused on guidelines that can be used as a basis.”

 

That in itself makes it a challenge, since the utility of a passport would depend on its being simple and universally available. If there were a dozen different kinds of passports, it would make it harder for businesses to use them to screen customers.

So it’s too soon to know what such a system would look like, even if it did manage to get up and running. But right-leaning libertarians are already expressing dismay:

Call me crazy, but I’d say 550,000 Americans dying of the coronavirus is a tad more “dystopian” than getting your smartphone scanned on your way into the gym.

Some are going even further. “Proposals like these smack of 1940s Nazi Germany. We must make every effort to keep America from becoming a ‘show your papers society,’” said Rep. Madison Cawthorn (R-N.C.), drawing on his deep knowledge of Nazi Germany. Because flashing your smartphone on the way into a movie is just like the Holocaust, apparently.

 

But shouldn’t we be worried about privacy? Wouldn’t it be “a massive bio-surveillance system,” in the words of one conservative columnist? The truth is that the privacy implications of vaccine passports are somewhat larger than zero, but way, way smaller than plenty of other intrusions on privacy that almost all of us — especially conservatives — accept every day.

First, it seems that the primary information contained within whatever system got established would essentially be a binary, zero-one piece of data, saying only whether you have been vaccinated. It wouldn’t monitor where you’ve been or what you’ve done.

And if you’re worried about your movements being tracked, I have some very bad news about that phone in your pocket.

 

But this is coercive, some will say. There are places I wouldn’t be able to go unless I were vaccinated! That’s true — although in many cases, it would probably mean you wouldn’t be able to go there unless you put on a mask, which is exactly what you have to do now.

And we coerce people all the time, especially when we’ve decided it’s necessary to keep them from hurting others. Forcing you to take a driving test before you get a license — and forcing you to carry that license in case a law enforcement official wants to see it — is coercive. But we do it. We force children to get a range of vaccines before they’re allowed to attend school with other children.

Conservatives, furthermore, are happy to require people to show a very specific ID before they’re allowed to vote. They would also like to see every employer use a federal government database known as E-Verify to check your citizenship status before they’ll hire you; Republican hero Gov. Ron DeSantis signed a bill mandating just that in Florida.

So if I’m a restaurant owner, should I have the right to say, “Since we’re still in a pandemic, for the next six months I’m only allowing in-person dining for those who have been vaccinated”? If you cry, “But you’re infringing on my freedom!”, I’d respond that you’re free to refuse the vaccine (or to get takeout), but I’m also free to make sure my restaurant is safe for my customers and staff.

And yes, in the short term, life could become more pleasant for those who have been vaccinated, granting them privileges not available to the refusers. Which is exactly the point.

In part, the objections are just something else for conservatives to complain about, a way to claim once again that they’re being victimized and oppressed. But this is also yet another battle in the war over our collective pandemic memory.

They’d like everyone to believe President Donald Trump did a great job managing the coronavirus pandemic, it was never a big deal in the first place, only wimps are willing to sacrifice for our collective well-being, and our greatest political heroes should be those who ignored and denied it. That’s not even mentioning the QAnon faction, which will no doubt see a vaccine passport as the Mark of the Beast.

To be clear, I remain skeptical about the practical challenges in rolling out a vaccine passport system quickly in this vast country. Perhaps it would only bring the end of the pandemic a tiny bit closer. But just as I’ll be making my appointment to get vaccinated the first day I can, if a vaccine passport does get created, you can sign me up.

 

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33 minutes ago, metafour said:

The fact that you actually believe what you just wrote is frightening.

Newsflash: this will NEVER go away. It'll just be a "new variant" or they'll just cherry-pick the data to paint the picture that they want to paint. Oh yeah, and they'll just silence and censor the THOUSANDS of "healthcare professionals" who outright disagree with the state-mandated "messaging". There's a widely-cited Harvard epidemiologist who is being actively censored by Twitter for giving his expertise on who should or shouldn't require vaccination (hint: he is of the opinion that that there is absolutely no need to vaccinate children or those who have already had COVID - a very common sense conclusion in epidemiology). 

Once you give these people power, you think they're going to freely hand it back? It goes against human nature. You have CDC and WHO directors who no one knew the names of a year ago who are now global "health celebrities". You think they want to go back to studying malaria or ebola in Africa lmao? 

Do you know how crazy this sounds? The world is going through a global pandemic that every nation is having to take steps to combat, and you really believe these preventative/protection steps are part of some grand conspiracy to strip you of your human rights? You think scientists and governments are collaborating in dark, secret rooms to make up stories about the virus just so they can make you wear a  paper mask or get some vaccine shot that'll have Bill Gates monitoring system in it? What's the deal here? 

Of course there are some healthcare officials who have different ideas. That's how science operates. And if you think they are being censored then the secret cabal isn't doing a very good job about it since you say that guy is widely cited and you know about him and what he says. 

 

I also don't know what you mean by the CDC and WHO leaders becoming celebrities. I know a lot of conservatives seem to have a deep seeded hatred for Fauci in particular...but it's a once in a 100 years pandemic..of course disease scientists will be the center of attention. I don't know why you think it's such a bad idea for experts in infections diseases to lead the effort against a..infectious disease. They also don't have that much power. Individual states and governments make most of the restrictions and many are loosening up now in direct contradiction to Fauci and the CDC's advice so I don't know what power you're afraid they wont give up. 

 

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2 hours ago, metafour said:

The fact that you actually believe what you just wrote is frightening.

Coming from you, this is a compliment.

 

2 hours ago, metafour said:

Newsflash: this will NEVER go away. It'll just be a "new variant" or they'll just cherry-pick the data to paint the picture that they want to paint. Oh yeah, and they'll just silence and censor the THOUSANDS of "healthcare professionals" who outright disagree with the state-mandated "messaging". There's a widely-cited Harvard epidemiologist who is being actively censored by Twitter for giving his expertise on who should or shouldn't require vaccination (hint: he is of the opinion that that there is absolutely no need to vaccinate children or those who have already had COVID - a very common sense conclusion in epidemiology). 

Peddle the conspiracy mongering somewhere else.

 

 

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2 hours ago, I_M4_AU said:

Or maybe our Southern Border where illegal immigration is unchecked and several immigrants have crossed with COVID.  

Please stop.

 

2 hours ago, I_M4_AU said:

Of course, the CDC would be all over that, right?  So it can’t be coming from there and if it were they would institute contact tracing and isolation for sure.  But wait, we don’t even know who or where the Covid positive immigrants are.  For some reason the Biden Administration is not concerned with Covid while protesting or illegal border crossings.  Only when an American citizen is not wearing a 😷.  You really can’t make this up.  

Cases are trending up in 31 states.  Whatever your inane issues with immigration are right now, stop conflating them with COVID cases rising.

 

2 hours ago, I_M4_AU said:

If this doesn’t prove the Democrats would not have done any better at controlling the epidemic, nothing does.  Biden was going to wipe out this virus, but instead he has enhanced the spread.  One has to ask; why have a border crisis during a pandemic he vowed to eliminate?  Hey, but he is such a nice guy and we’re back to normal, almost.

Overall, cases are down significantly from when he took office.  If we're going to do this dumb thing where we look at a calendar and magically think a new WH occupant instantly changes everything in a pandemic, at least get that before making a statement like this.

Not everything at every moment is a R vs D thing.

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1 hour ago, TitanTiger said:

Cases are trending up in 31 states.  Whatever your inane issues with immigration are right now, stop conflating them with COVID cases rising.

Are you saying the immigrants only stay local to where they cross?  I don’t have any issues with legal immigration and the illegal kind is what is the issue.  No legal immigrant can come into a country when testing positive for Covid, illegal not so much.  Are you saying an illegal immigrant can’t pass on Covid if he/she is Covid positive?  That must be science fiction fact.

I was promised by the present *transparent* President that he was going to stop the virus.  I didn’t believe him when he said it and, by his actions, it seems he is doing everything he can to prolong this virus.

What is going to stop this virus is people getting vaccinated and, along with natural immunity, we finally reach herd immunity.  That takes time no matter who is President, but thanks to the vaccine being developed in record time, there is light at the end of the tunnel.

Why would you allow infected people in to a country that almost has the virus under control?  That’s like putting Covid positive patients in nursing homes.

1 hour ago, TitanTiger said:

Overall, cases are down significantly from when he took office.  If we're going to do this dumb thing where we look at a calendar and magically think a new WH occupant instantly changes everything in a pandemic, at least get that before making a statement like this.

Not everything at every moment is a R vs D thing.

This whole virus has been R vs D since it hit our shores, why would it change.  The media, along with many on this site (I’m 👀 at you) railed on the R’s since day one about how bad Trump handled it.  Now Biden is allowing Covid positive people in the country, immigrant or not, D or not, that is just plain wrong.  You don’t seem to understand that and try to take the moral high ground, a typical leftist strategy.

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16 hours ago, I_M4_AU said:

Are you saying the immigrants only stay local to where they cross?  I don’t have any issues with legal immigration and the illegal kind is what is the issue.  No legal immigrant can come into a country when testing positive for Covid, illegal not so much.  Are you saying an illegal immigrant can’t pass on Covid if he/she is Covid positive?  That must be science fiction fact.

I’m saying that when 31 states are having increases, blaming immigration is stupid and illogical. If you have actual evidence not from some wingnut conspiracy site, show it. Otherwise, stop. 

 

Quote

I was promised by the present *transparent* President that he was going to stop the virus.  I didn’t believe him when he said it and, by his actions, it seems he is doing everything he can to prolong this virus.

This is just plain idiotic. Cases have dropped like a rock since he came in and he’s done about all one could ask to ramp up vaccine production and distribution. You’re just arguing to argue. 
 

Quote

What is going to stop this virus is people getting vaccinated and, along with natural immunity, we finally reach herd immunity.  That takes time no matter who is President, but thanks to the vaccine being developed in record time, there is light at the end of the tunnel.

Why would you allow infected people in to a country that almost has the virus under control?  That’s like putting Covid positive patients in nursing homes.

Evidence or shut up about it. 
 

Quote

This whole virus has been R vs D since it hit our shores, why would it change.  The media, along with many on this site (I’m 👀 at you) railed on the R’s since day one about how bad Trump handled it.  Now Biden is allowing Covid positive people in the country, immigrant or not, D or not, that is just plain wrong.  You don’t seem to understand that and try to take the moral high ground, a typical leftist strategy.

But you don’t have to keep playing the stupid game. If you know that’s what’s been happening and you keep it up, how dumb is that?

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On 3/29/2021 at 6:04 PM, SaltyTiger said:

No it does’t unless you understand that Trump referenced things he did not like as a “hoax”. Of course you think all criticism was “valid”. You posted numerous anti Trump/virus articles daily. Your obsession with Trump was incessant and a bit fascinating.

First, Trump did hate the idea the truth of a pandemic threat. He saw it as an obstacle to his reelection.

But rather than act responsibly - which ironically, might have improved his chances - he used every opportunity to poo-pooh it as a threat, including implying it was a hoax.  Your post was clearly defending Trump by asserting he didn't do that.

Taken in the context of his many statements on the pandemic - it will just disappear, free Michigan! etc. - your defense is clearly an argument suitable only for a Trump cultist.   Just admit it. 

More to your pedantic argument:  How can one claim that Democrat's warnings, recommendations, actions and truth telling regarding the virus be a hoax, without the virus itself being a hoax???

Trump - and his cult followers - are responsible for 100,000's thousands of unnecessary pandemic deaths.  (Hopefully the numbers are staggered toward the cultists.)

And don't worry about about my "obsession", I suggest you focus on your own common sense, which you apparently lack.

 

Edited by homersapien
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20 hours ago, metafour said:

The fact that you actually believe what you just wrote is frightening.

Newsflash: this will NEVER go away. It'll just be a "new variant" or they'll just cherry-pick the data to paint the picture that they want to paint. Oh yeah, and they'll just silence and censor the THOUSANDS of "healthcare professionals" who outright disagree with the state-mandated "messaging". There's a widely-cited Harvard epidemiologist who is being actively censored by Twitter for giving his expertise on who should or shouldn't require vaccination (hint: he is of the opinion that that there is absolutely no need to vaccinate children or those who have already had COVID - a very common sense conclusion in epidemiology). 

Once you give these people power, you think they're going to freely hand it back? It goes against human nature. You have CDC and WHO directors who no one knew the names of a year ago who are now global "health celebrities". You think they want to go back to studying malaria or ebola in Africa lmao? 

The more cases of infection we have, the higher probability of variants developing.  Because of science.

Sounds to me like you are resigned to scientific ignorance.

(BTW, the only scientist you presented after being asked to do so was Scott Gottlieb, and I don't think he supports your argument at all.)

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17 hours ago, TitanTiger said:

Evidence or shut up about it.

COVID-19 ICE Detainee Statistics by Facility

AS OF 03/29/2021
 
Atlanta Field Office
Charleston County Detention Center 0 0 2
Columbia Regional Care Center 0 0 1
Folkston ICE Processing Center (Main) 0 0 104
Irwin County Detention Center 0 0 71
Robert A. Deyton Detention Center 0 0 6
Sheriff Al Cannon Detention Center 0 0 1
Stewart Detention Center 2 4 493
Baltimore Field Office
Howard County Detention Center 0 0 2
Worcester County Jail 0 0 1
Boston Field Office
Bristol County Detention Center 0 0 9
Cumberland County Jail 0 0 1
Franklin County House of Corrections 0 0 9
Plymouth County Correctional Facility 0 0 5
Strafford County Corrections 0 0 20
Wyatt Detention Center 1 0 35
Buffalo Field Office
Buffalo (Batavia) Service Processing Center 59 0 118
Chicago Field Office
Chase County Detention Facility 1 0 84
Clay County Justice Center 0 0 18
Dodge County Jail 0 0 4
Kankakee County Detention Center 0 0 22
Lincoln County Detention Center 0 0 1
McHenry County Adult Correctional Facility 0 0 8
Montgomery County Jail 0 0 1
Morgan County Detention Center 0 0 3
Pulaski County Detention Center 0 0 112
Dallas Field Office
Bluebonnet Detention Facility 0 0 408
Eden Detention Center 0 0 65
Johnson County Law Enforcement Center 0 0 4
Kay County Detention Center 0 0 1
Moore Detention Center 0 0 36
Prairieland Detention Facility 0 0 155
Rolling Plains Detention Center 0 0 59
Denver Field Office
Aurora Contract Detention Facility 0 0 185
Detroit Field Office
Butler County Jail 0 0 1
Calhoun County Correctional Center 0 0 60
Geauga County Jail 0 0 11
Monroe County Detention 0 0 1
Monroe County Detention - Dorm 0 0 1
Monroe County Jail 0 0 1
Morrow County Correctional Facility 0 0 51
Saint Clair County Jail 0 0 15
Seneca County Jail 0 0 14
El Paso Field Office
Cibola County Correctional Center 0 0 1
El Paso Service Processing Center 6 0 424
Otero County Processing Center 1 0 191
Torrance County Detention Center 0 0 55
Houston Field Office
Coastal Bend Detention Center 0 0 12
Houston Contract Detention Facility 0 0 198
IAH Polk Adult Detention Facility 4 0 35
Joe Corley Detention Center 0 1 51
Montgomery Processing Center (Houston) 0 0 274
Los Angeles Field Office
Adelanto ICE Processing Center 0 0 270
Miami Field Office
Baker County Detention Center 0 0 16
Broward Transitional Center 1 0 252
Glades County Detentio8n Center 0 1 188
Krome North Service Processing Center 0 0 242
Larkin Behavioral Health Center 0 0 2
San Juan Staging Facility 0 0 1
Wakulla County Jail 0 0 43
Newark Field Office
Elizabeth Detention Center 0 0 39
Essex County Jail 0 0 24
New Orleans Field Office
Adams County Correctional Center 44 0 156
Alexandria Staging Facility 6 0 235
Allen Parish Detention Center 0 0 12
Catahoula Correctional Center 0 0 119
Etowah County Jail 3 0 30
Hancock County Jail 0 0 1
Jackson Parish Correctional 2 0 117
LaSalle ICE Processing Center - Jena 4 0 91
LaSalle ICE Processing Center - Olla 1 0 25
Pine Prairie ICE Processing Center 6 0 87
Richwood Correctional Center 2 0 129
River Correctional Center 0 0 57
South Louisiana Correctional Center 5 0 30
Winn Correctional Center 7 1 300
New York City Field Office
Bergen County Jail 0 0 24
Hudson County Jail 0 0 14
Orange County Jail 0 0 2
Philadelphia Field Office
Berks Family Residential Center 0 0 5
Cambria County Prison 0 0 14
Clinton County Correctional Facility 0 0 66
Pike County Correctional Facility 0 0 38
South Central Regional Jail 1 0 2
York County Prison 15 0 279
Phoenix Field Office
CCA Florence Correctional Center 10 0 117
Eloy Federal Contract Facility 31 0 416
Florence Detention Center 1 0 101
La Palma Correctional Facility 74 0 766
Salt Lake City Field Office
Cache County Jail 0 0 15
Henderson Detention Center 5 0 37
Nevada Southern Detention Center 0 0 13
Nye County Jail 0 0 61
Washington County Jail 0 0 6
San Antonio Field Office
El Valle Detention Facility 24 0 188
Karnes County Civil Detention Center 1 0 1
Karnes County Residential Center 94 0 205
Laredo Processing Center 8 0 19
LaSalle County Regional Detention Center 0 0 11
Limestone County Detention Center 0 0 94
Port Isabel Detention Center 8 0 322
Rio Grande Detention Center 6 0 192
South Texas Family Residential Center (Dilley) 76 0 232
South Texas ICE Processing Center (Pearsall) 44 0 378
T. Don Hutto Residential Center 3 0 7
Webb County Detention Center (CCA) 16 0 133
San Diego Field Office
Imperial Regional Detention Facility 11 0 82
Otay Mesa Detention Center (San Diego CDF) 22 1 238
San Luis Regional Detention Center 56 0 84
San Francisco Field Office
Golden State Annex Facility 0 0 6
Mesa Verde ICE Processing Center 1 0 60
Yuba County Jail 0 0 7
Seattle Field Office
Northwest ICE Processing Center (NWIPC) 0 0 34
St. Paul Field Office
Douglas County Corrections 0 0 1
Freeborn County Adult Detention Center 0 0 5
Hall County Sheriff 0 0 2
Hardin County Jail 0 0 7
Kandiyoh County Jail 0 0 41
Linn County Jail 0 0 2
Nobles County Jail 0 0 2
Phelps County Jail 0 0 2
Polk County Jail 0 0 15
Pottawattamie County Jail 0 0 2
Sherburne County Jail 0 0 2
Washington D.C. Field Office
Caroline Detention Facility 3 0 74
Immigration Centers of America - Farmville 0 1 339
TOTAL 665 9 10,669

https://www.ice.gov/coronavirus

11 Places Are At The Highest COVID-19 Risk Level

Data as of March 30

 

 
   
   
   
Georgia
Risk level Orange
Avg. daily cases 1,367/day
Per 100k

13 per 100k

Maryland

Risk level Orange
Avg. daily cases 1,222/day
Per 100k 20 per 100k
Massachusetts
Risk level Red
Avg. daily cases 2,198/day
Per 100k

32 per 100k

New York
Risk level Red
Avg. daily cases 10,925/day
Per 100k 56 per 100k
 
Illinois
Risk level Orange
Avg. daily cases 2,443/day
Per 100k

19 per 100k

 

Texas
Risk level Orange
Avg. daily cases 3,880/day
Per 100k

13 per 100k

 

Colorado
Risk level Orange
Avg. daily cases 1,145/day
Per 100k

20 per 100k

 

Michigan
Risk level Red
Avg. daily cases 5,409/day
Per 100k

54 per 100k

 

California
Risk level Yellow
Avg. daily cases 2,637/day
Per 100k

7 per 100k

 

 

 

Florida
Risk level Orange
Avg. daily cases 5,133/day
Per 100k

24 per 100k

New Jersey
Risk level Red
Avg. daily cases 4,472/day
Per 100k

50 per 100k

Louisiana
Risk level Yellow
Avg. daily cases 378/day
Per 100k

8 per 100k

Pennsylvania
Risk level Red
Avg. daily cases 4,043/day
Per 100k

32 per 100k

 

 

Arizona
Risk level Yellow
Avg. daily cases 548/day
Per 100k

8 per 100k

Utah
Risk level Orange
Avg. daily cases 422/day
Per 100k

13 per 100k

Washington
Risk level Orange
Avg. daily cases 957/day
Per 100k

13 per 100k

Minnesota
Risk level Red
Avg. daily cases 1,521/day
Per 100k

27 per 100k

District of Columbia
Risk level Orange
Avg. daily cases 132/day
Per 100k

19 per 100k

RED

  • Threshold: 25+ daily new cases per 100,000 people 
  • Indicates: unchecked community spread

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2020/09/01/816707182/map-tracking-the-spread-of-the-coronavirus-in-the-u-s

 

 

The detainees are being transported to 6 states that are at a level of Red or unchecked community spread, but I’m sure the only reason that is is because they have the room.  Both of these charts are as of March 29th and March 30th of this year.

There are more illegal immigrants coming across the border each day.  I’m not sure where they will put them.  Yes it is a crisis and does nothing to help with slowing the spread.

Edited by I_M4_AU
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So six states.  And they are being detained in ICE facilities.  But somehow they're the driver or a major driver of increased COVID cases in 31 states?  Were they also responsible when Trump was President back in December and January and the spike in cases and deaths was exponentially higher (highest of the entire pandemic here in the US)? 

Or does it make more sense to assume that what drives COVID cases and deaths in the US is overwhelmingly US citizens and their behavioral choices, not scary immigrants?

Your logic doesn't follow.  Your 'evidence' isn't really evidence for what you're claiming. And you should learn the maxim "correlation does not equal causation."

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Just as an addendum to further illustrate how slim the odds are that these immigrants are driving COVID spikes in 31 states:

There are currently 665 active cases of COVID among the 14,000+ detainees.  Over 70% of them are from three cities:

San Antonio - 262 cases (64% of those are isolated to just two of SA's twelve facilities)
Phoenix - 116 cases (almost 64% are isolated to one of Phoenix's four facilities)
San Diego - 89 cases (almost 63% are isolated to one of SD's three facilities)

Does it really make sense to think that immigrants coming over the border are a major driver when they're not only limited to being detained in about six states, but even amongst those, 70% of the cases are isolated to 4 facilities out of 19, spread amongst just three US cities?

 

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23 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

So six states.  And they are being detained in ICE facilities.  But somehow they're the driver or a major driver of increased COVID cases in 31 states?  Were they also responsible when Trump was President back in December and January and the spike in cases and deaths was exponentially higher (highest of the entire pandemic here in the US)? 

Or does it make more sense to assume that what drives COVID cases and deaths in the US is overwhelmingly US citizens and their behavioral choices, not scary immigrants?

Your logic doesn't follow.  Your 'evidence' isn't really evidence for what you're claiming. And you should learn the maxim "correlation does not equal causation."

This is just dishonest.  I didn’t say they were a driver or major driver of increased COVID cases in 31 states.  I said the fact that illegal immigrants are crossing the border with COVID probably increases the chance of more spread and can prolong the fight against the virus.  As you know the 10,000+ detainees are not the total sum of illegal immigrants that have crossed.

Of course the major cause of spread are citizens, but does it follow that allowing more infected people in the U.S. will prolong the virus?  We will never get the stats that will nail down where these outbreaks come from as there in no contact tracing, we gave up on that a long time ago.  The immigrants aren’t scary, I’m not sure where you get this, they are illegally entering the country during a pandemic (some with the virus) which is just dumb on our part.

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9 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

This is just dishonest.  I didn’t say they were a driver or major driver of increased COVID cases in 31 states.  I said the fact that illegal immigrants are crossing the border with COVID probably increases the chance of more spread and can prolong the fight against the virus.  As you know the 10,000+ detainees are not the total sum of illegal immigrants that have crossed.

No it's not dishonest.  I pointed out that cases were up 12% over the last week or so and experts in the field don't like the trend lines.  This was your response:

Let’s see, we have learned over the last year the cases surge after about 2 week of exposure.  In June of last year, after Memorial Day and George Floyd, the cases spiked, so we know there must have been an exposure somewhere, but where.  Could it be Spring Break?  Or maybe our Southern Border where illegal immigration is unchecked and several immigrants have crossed with COVID.  

Of course, the CDC would be all over that, right?  So it can’t be coming from there and if it were they would institute contact tracing and isolation for sure.  But wait, we don’t even know who or where the Covid positive immigrants are.  For some reason the Biden Administration is not concerned with Covid while protesting or illegal border crossings.  Only when an American citizen is not wearing a 😷.  You really can’t make this up.  

If this doesn’t prove the Democrats would not have done any better at controlling the epidemic, nothing does.  Biden was going to wipe out this virus, but instead he has enhanced the spread.

Then in response to me pointing out that cases are up in 31 states, you post a chart showing detainees in six states.

If you're not clearly implying that immigrants are a driver or perhaps major driver of the surge in cases, I suggest you buy a book on forming arguments properly.

 

9 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

Of course the major cause of spread are citizens, but does it follow that allowing more infected people in the U.S. will prolong the virus?  We will never get the stats that will nail down where these outbreaks come from as there in no contact tracing, we gave up on that a long time ago.  The immigrants aren’t scary, I’m not sure where you get this, they are illegally entering the country during a pandemic (some with the virus) which is just dumb on our part.

It's minuscule at best.  It's a drop in the ocean.  I'm not even arguing for or against this or that immigration policy.  I'm just pointing out that this is an inane thing to even bring up in response to my post about cases rising 12% and being up in almost 2/3 of the states.

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4 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

No it's not dishonest. 

Yes, yes it is.  You are painting a narrative that is false.  I clearly gave a possible cause of the spread as Spring breakers or unchecked border surge.  Nowhere did I indicate illegal immigration was a driver or a major driver for the increase.  I just posed the possibility.   I do have a distain for the Biden Administration and that was the focus.  I believe his policies on immigration are totally wrong and was pointing out inviting illegal immigrants to surge to the border during a pandemic is lunacy.

According to NPR his approval rating for immigration is at 34%.

But just 34% of Americans approve of Biden's handling of immigration, while 53% disapprove. A majority of independents and even a quarter of Democrats disapprove of the job he's doing on the issue.

https://www.npr.org/2021/03/30/982434413/npr-marist-poll-biden-gets-high-marks-on-covid-19-its-not-the-case-on-immigratio

In the same poll he has a 65% approval rating for handling the pandemic, obviously, I’m not one of them.

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Just now, I_M4_AU said:

Yes, yes it is.  You are painting a narrative that is false.  I clearly gave a possible cause of the spread as Spring breakers or unchecked border surge.  Nowhere did I indicate illegal immigration was a driver or a major driver for the increase.  I just posed the possibility.

This is just silly.  You know it's not a possibility.  It was rank speculation based on nothing.  And yes, you did suggest that it was a reason for the surge. 

 

Just now, I_M4_AU said:

I do have a distain for the Biden Administration and that was the focus.  I believe his policies on immigration are totally wrong and was pointing out inviting illegal immigrants to surge to the border during a pandemic is lunacy.

Then point out where you think his policies are bad with things that are reasonable to suggest, not glom on to a discussion on COVID surging with immigration talk as if it's a real factor.

 

Just now, I_M4_AU said:

According to NPR his approval rating for immigration is at 34%.

But just 34% of Americans approve of Biden's handling of immigration, while 53% disapprove. A majority of independents and even a quarter of Democrats disapprove of the job he's doing on the issue.

https://www.npr.org/2021/03/30/982434413/npr-marist-poll-biden-gets-high-marks-on-covid-19-its-not-the-case-on-immigratio

In the same poll he has a 65% approval rating for handling the pandemic, obviously, I’m not one of them.

Because most people aren't making the same dumb connection you are.

But regardless, if you want to discuss immigration, start a thread on it.  But don't bring this correlation nonsense into this one.

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I love the shaded, suggestive wording:  The CDC "admits"...as if it was something they were trying to hide from us but only "admitted" after the truth came out despite their best suppression efforts or something.  The data only came in on this yesterday from Pfizer/BioNTech.  Scientific data gathering and observation take time.  They were hopeful to hear this kind of news, but couldn't say definitively before.

Politicians and their need to be 'messaging' all the time. :rolleyes:

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The point being only yesterday did the CDC Director say she thought there was *impending doom*.  Well it appears that *doom* didn’t last long.  Biden is still whispering “wear the mask, its our patriotic duty”.  Will she walk this back?

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Employers mandating employees be vaccinated in order to remain employed is a step too far.  They've never mandated regular flu shots in order to be employed. COVID isn't going to be similar to smallpox where the vaccine is going to eradicate it if we just get people vaccinated. We haven't eradicated influenza despite flu shots being widely available since the 1940's. Yet now in 2021 with COVID some are arguing in support of coercing everyone to get the COVID vaccine in order to be employed, being able to travel, or basically return to pre-COVID way of life even though the vaccine won't eradicate it.

Why aren't we treating the vaccine like a regular flu shot? Those most at risk should get the vaccine. Healthy people that don't have COVID and have tested negative for COVID shouldn't be required to get the vaccine. Yet we're not hearing that argument be made.

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5 hours ago, I_M4_AU said:

The point being only yesterday did the CDC Director say she thought there was *impending doom*.  Well it appears that *doom* didn’t last long.  Biden is still whispering “wear the mask, its our patriotic duty”.  Will she walk this back?

Newsflash:  The CDC doesn’t have insider info at Pfizer nor does the company feed them early info. They don’t coordinate their press releases. 

And the worry about the surge still stands. The vaccine news is great but we need a whole lot mote people to get it before we can relax. And if dimwits start acting like this is over too soon, people are doing to get sick and die unnecessarily. 

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4 hours ago, Auburnfan91 said:

Employers mandating employees be vaccinated in order to remain employed is a step too far. 

lol

Never worked in healthcare, I would imagine. 

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Over 100 fully vaccinated people contract COVID-19 in Washington state, officials say

Officials said the so-called breakthrough cases are expected with any vaccine.

By Morgan Winsor
March 31, 2021, 6:53 AM • 5 min read
 
 

Over 100 people in Washington state have tested positive for COVID-19 more than two weeks after becoming fully vaccinated against the disease, officials said.

The Washington State Department of Health is investigating reports of the so-called breakthrough cases, which it said are expected with any vaccine.

Out of the 1.2 million people who are fully vaccinated against COVID-19 in Washington, epidemiologists have reported evidence of 102 breakthrough cases in 18 counties since Feb. 1, representing less than 0.01% of all fully vaccinated individuals in the northwestern U.S. state. Most cases were patients who experienced only mild symptoms, if any, according to a press release from the Washington State Department of Health.

 

However, at least eight people with breakthrough cases have been hospitalized. The Washington State Department of Health is also investigating two potential breakthrough cases where the individuals died. Both patients were over 80 years old and suffered from underlying healthissues.

The Washington State Department of Health said further investigation will help identify patterns among the breakthrough cases, such as if a variant of the novel coronavirus may have caused the infection.

A breakthrough case is confirmed with a positive polymerase chain reaction (PCR) test or a positive antigen test in an individual more than two weeks after they have received their final dose of a COVID-19 vaccine, according to the Washington State Department of Health.

"Finding evidence of vaccine breakthrough cases reminds us that, even if you have been vaccinated, you still need to wear a mask, practice socially distancing, and wash your hands to prevent spreading COVID-19 to others who have not been vaccinated," Dr. Umair Shah, Washington state's secretary of health, said in a statement Tuesday.

Large-scale clinical studies found that COVID-19 vaccines reduced the risk of contracting the disease in vaccinated individuals by up to 95%, compared with those who were not vaccinated. However, the vaccines are not 100% effective in preventing infection and thus a small percentage of breakthrough cases can be anticipated, according to the Washington State Department of Health.

"It is important to remember that every vaccine on the market right now prevents severe disease and death in most cases," Shah said. "People should still get vaccinated as soon as they are eligible, and encourage friends, loved ones, and co-workers to do the same."

More than 30.3 million people have been diagnosed with COVID-19 in the United States and over 550,000 of them have died, according to data compiled by Johns Hopkins University.

Washington state has registered at least 363,235 confirmed cases and 5,237 deaths. So far, more than 16% of the Evergreen State's population is fully vaccinated against COVID-19, according to Johns Hopkins data.

 

https://abcnews.go.com/Health/100-fully-vaccinated-people-contract-covid-19-washington/story?id=76784838

 
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