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Do you go to church?


bigbird

Do you go to church?  

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  1. 1. Do you go to church?



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On 4/6/2021 at 7:39 PM, AUFAN78 said:

I recall many of the arguments made by Trump's evangelical support revolved around his pro life stance and religious liberty. I also recall much of the outrage came from partisan ill intent. When pressed on so called outrageous comments it always circled back to the two aforementioned categories. Of course that would not have made for flattering liberal headlines. As I stated three separate times in the thread context matters.

 

I agree to a point. Trump resembles nothing I was taught, but neither did Hillary. One of the reasons I voted for neither. How he made it out of Republican primaries is another story. But then again, he did run strong on pro life and religious liberty and that would be my best guess. Obviously, there is nothing in his past overtly religious.  

My bottom line was falling church attendance due to Trump is a copout. There is another problem not being addressed.

So... you’re simply speaking for yourself. ...alone....that is very cool, and I accept that.  For me, my lingering faith was further challenged by Trump evangelicals who would have never have accepted his lifestyle, transgressions, and compromised positions without his recently accepted anti abortion stance. Very hypocritical.

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So, if you refer to Trump as "anti" religious or "non" religious, the reality is that the ONLY reason  Trump was POSING with a bible and kissing the butts of evangelicals was for VOTES. He's as religious as that dog rover with a rock in his mouth. He just blurts the words to get the evangelical votes.

 

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8 hours ago, AURex said:

So, if you refer to Trump as "anti" religious or "non" religious, the reality is that the ONLY reason  Trump was POSING with a bible and kissing the butts of evangelicals was for VOTES. He's as religious as that dog rover with a rock in his mouth. He just blurts the words to get the evangelical votes.

 

I agree, but wouldn't you say that every POTUS candidate panders to their base?  Why was it so wrong when Trump did it?

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1 hour ago, bigbird said:

I agree, but wouldn't you say that every POTUS candidate panders to their base?  Why was it so wrong when Trump did it?

I think religious pandering, personally, is the worst pandering of all.  The only thing on the same level is getting fooled by it.

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12 hours ago, tomcat said:

So... you’re simply speaking for yourself. ...alone....that is very cool, and I accept that.  For me, my lingering faith was further challenged by Trump evangelicals who would have never have accepted his lifestyle, transgressions, and compromised positions without his recently accepted anti abortion stance. Very hypocritical.

What's worse is, when Lifeway Research (an arm of the Southern Baptist Convention) conducted a survey of Trump voters' reasons for supporting him back in 2016, being pro-life and for religious liberty didn't register all that high among the chief reasons they voted for him.  Particularly among his most ardent supporters - white evangelicals.  They asked people what the most important issue was for them.  Their replies:

Screen%20Shot%202017-01-17%20at%2011.49.

Hell, among the rank and file, immigration mattered more to them than abortion.  Those findings were backed up by another survey from Pew Research. This time they were asked to name which issues (not limited to one "most important" issue) were "very important" to them.

Screen%20Shot%202017-01-17%20at%2011.41.

The sad truth of the matter is, there were a whole host of issues deemed more pertinent to white evangelicals than abortion or religious freedom.  In other words, its doubtful that even a pro-life, pro-religious freedom Democrat - even if the miraculously won the primary - would get these people's votes.  

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58 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

I think religious pandering, personally, is the worst pandering of all.  The only thing on the same level is getting fooled by it.

I agree. I also agree only seeing one side of the same coin is asinine...not saying you are/were

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1 hour ago, TitanTiger said:

What's worse is, when Lifeway Research (an arm of the Southern Baptist Convention) conducted a survey of Trump voters' reasons for supporting him back in 2016, being pro-life and for religious liberty didn't register all that high among the chief reasons they voted for him.  Particularly among his most ardent supporters - white evangelicals.  They asked people what the most important issue was for them.  Their replies:

Screen%20Shot%202017-01-17%20at%2011.49.

Hell, among the rank and file, immigration mattered more to them than abortion.  Those findings were backed up by another survey from Pew Research. This time they were asked to name which issues (not limited to one "most important" issue) were "very important" to them.

Screen%20Shot%202017-01-17%20at%2011.41.

The sad truth of the matter is, there were a whole host of issues deemed more pertinent to white evangelicals than abortion or religious freedom.  In other words, its doubtful that even a pro-life, pro-religious freedom Democrat - even if the miraculously won the primary - would get these people's votes.  

Very telling. The one point I want to everyone to reflect on is "Personal Character of the Candidate." Who in the hell would choose Trump over:

Cruz: Intellectual Right Wing Hardcore.(A true nut, IMHO.)
Santorum: Religious Uber-Nutjob,.finished first in Alabama, need I say more?
Rubio: A classic MOTR Republican with lil baggage
Kasich: A classic MOTR Republican with lil baggage

FOR 
trump: A man with demonstrably No Business Ethics, No Personally Responsibility Ethics, As good an an example of amoral 20th Century America as you can find. 

You look at that field, deciding on your pic by focusing on "Character." and you chose trump???? WTF????
The only reason Character would even rear its head here is to make difference between trump and clinton. 

My personal take: Politicians in America are viewed so badly that an empty suit, adulterating, bankrupting, egotistical man-child like trump becomes viable, simply because he is an outsider. Rubio, Kasich, etc are tainted by association as being "just like all other pols."

So: looking ahead. If Trump doesnt run in 2024, Who is the Republican nominee?
Looking ahead, it has to be whomever kisses trumps ass the most. DeSantis is probably already doomed to be the nominee. Hince, why 60 Minutes is already trying to kneecap him. 

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2 hours ago, DKW 86 said:

How do SBC Pastors see anything likeable in trump?

Many of them see themselves...or they see what they would like to be.  Despite protestations to the contrary, there was a healthy percentage of people in the evangelical camp that saw his behavior as a feature, not a bug.

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Personally, I don't go to church. Never have since I left my parental unit. But religious affiliation (like military service) has always been a thing for politicians.

Trump never went to church before entering the presidential race, because he was always on the golf course on Sundays. Every other politician makes a big deal of their faith and church attendance. But they actually practice what they claim -- they go to church at least semi-frequently.

Once he entered the race, Trump began kissing the butts of religious leaders and he suddenly became a devout Christian (although he was still often golfing on Sundays).

Personally, I do not give a crap whether Trump goes to church or not. I do care about the entire fabrication of religious devotion when he obviously was just looking for soundbites and photo-ops.

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24 minutes ago, AURex said:

Trump never went to church before entering the presidential race, because he was always on the golf course on Sundays.

I know some people that go to church and golf on Sunday...you would be amazed at all some folks can do in one day Rex. 

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1 hour ago, SaltyTiger said:

I know some people that go to church and golf on Sunday...you would be amazed at all some folks can do in one day Rex. 

He very rarely did both because he very rarely went to church. 

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19 hours ago, TitanTiger said:

He very rarely did both because he very rarely went to church. 

Doubt he went or goes often myself. Have no clue what he uses Sunday for. 
 

Do not believe a lot of people were “fooled” by his spiritual and moral values. I can understand the “hypocrisy”. 

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He has never been seen at church since leaving office in Mar-a-Lago In his own words, he considers people who believe in all that religious stuff idiots. But hey, whatever is required to get some votes ........

 

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This article is about John Merrill, but it's contents really belong in this thread I feel:

The John Merrill problem

https://www.al.com/opinion/2021/04/the-john-merrill-problem.html

Quote

I take no pleasure in adding to the volume of words written about the implosion of John Merrill’s political career this week. The details of his personal failings are distasteful, and my heart breaks for his wife and children.

But we can’t pretend that this cringe-inducing episode just snuck up on us out of nowhere, either. For years now, Alabama voters have elected Merrill to office despite the rumors of his recurrent moral failings. To win the votes, all he had to do was toss out a few biblical platitudes and drop phrases like “families first,” all while putting his family last.

All he had to do was rail against the sexual sins of others while personally indulging in a circus of licentiousness.

 
 

Here’s the thing, friends: unvirtuous people can’t lead the charge for a more virtuous society. But we keep pretending at the ballot box that as long as they espouse the correct policy positions, they can.

It’s pure foolishness.

Leadership requires so much more than keeping to a set of talking points, or even crafting policy in a way that keeps your scorecard intact with the partisan watchdogs. A lack of personal morality will eventually corrupt how you do your job--or compromise your ability to do your job at all--whether you’re a ditch-digger or the Secretary of State.

A man who will lie to his wife will lie to me. He’ll lie to the IRS. He’ll lie to his boss. He’ll lie to his constituents. He’ll lie to the press. He’ll cheat at cards and golf.

Liars lie. They lie because they lack the personal courage to do the right things. They lie to cover for their lack of self-discipline. I am sick to death of people who lack the guts to properly govern themselves, having the nerve to ask to govern me.

But my party--the party of family values?--has gotten increasingly comfortable with electing standard-bearers who fail the virtue test—cheaters like Donald Trump and hedonistic clowns like Matt Gaetz. I harbor no naive delusions that the left has any fewer moral zeros. But at least they’re not wrapping their losers in biblical rhetoric and selling them to America as if they are the answer to our cultural ills.

We act as if people who have no experience with virtue can understand it well enough to guard and promote it. We act as if people who don’t practice personal virtue can be trusted to interpret these ideas in the public square for the greater good.

They can’t.

So if we conservatives are serious about creating a more virtuous society, I’m here to tell you that the first order of business is taking out our own trash.

And let us not feign ignorance. Alabama is a small state, and Montgomery is a fishbowl. The power-brokers who open and close the gates for candidates know them--warts and all--even better than you and I. They bear significant responsibility for lending support and legitimacy to those who lack the moral fiber to lead.

On a spiritual level, John Merrill can receive forgiveness for his sins just like you and me. He can repent and turn from this lifestyle of dishonesty and adultery. We serve a merciful God who forgives when we repent. He can experience restoration in his relationship with God and maybe even with his family.

But Alabamians don’t owe him the honor of our trust again.

In this world, trust--once broken--is often impossible to regain. Even when we forgive, we don’t automatically resume trust. That would be unwise, both for the person who stumbled and for us. (The Bible doesn’t tell us to “forgive and forget.” It just tells us to forgive.)

We are living through a moment of extreme skittishness about election integrity. Who in the world has time for a Secretary of State with a whopping integrity problem?

Better men and women are willing to serve. Don’t believe for a second that this is the best we can do. There are still folks out there who are faithful, who tell the truth, and who would lead with integrity. Most of them are too dang busy working and serving their families to have time for this level of extracurricular stupidity.

But the burden lies with us, ultimately. We must become an electorate that desires leaders of integrity more than spin. When we demand better, we’ll get better. And not a minute sooner.

 

 

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