Joe Manchin just crushed liberals' dream for Joe Biden's first term

[DKW 86 7,419]

Good ole DINO Joe Manchin....
Joe Manchin just crushed liberals' dream for Joe Biden's first term

"There is no circumstance in which I will vote to eliminate or weaken the filibuster," wrote the West Virginia Democratic senator in a Washington Post op-ed published Wednesday night.

Which is pretty dang airtight when it comes to pledges. And which means, assuming Manchin sticks to it, that Democrats do not have the 50 votes they would need to change the Senate rules to eliminate the legislative filibuster. Which, in turn, means that the idea of passing meaningful gun control legislation or moving forward on the election reform bill passed by the House are simply not possible.

But, it's more than that too. While the big headline of the Manchin op-ed is his opposition to ending the filibuster, he also makes clear that he disapproves of using "reconciliation" -- a budget tool that allows bills to be passed with a simple majority -- for things not directly tied to the budget, which very much includes Biden's infrastructure bill.

 

 

"We should all be alarmed at how the budget reconciliation process is being used by both parties to stifle debate around the major issues facing our country today," wrote Manchin, adding: "I simply do not believe budget reconciliation should replace regular order in the Senate. How is that good for the future of this nation? Senate Democrats must avoid the temptation to abandon our Republican colleagues on important national issues. Republicans, however, have a responsibility to stop saying no, and participate in finding real compromise with Democrats."

[bigbird 60,490]

Thanks, Joe

[CoffeeTiger 5,099]

So Joe Manchin acknowledges that Republicans are pretty headstrong in the idea of making sure NOTHING that Biden or the Democrats want will ever get their votes, but he still says he believes Democrats shouldn't do anything until they can get that Republican support that Republicans say they'll never give? Makes sense. 

 

Manchin sure is old fashioned, and there's nothing more old fashioned than a US federal government that can't get anything done. 

[SLAG-91 1,483]

He says that now...I suspect the negotiations to meet his price for changing his mind are underway.

[I_M4_AU 7,792]

The real question is; why does the Democrats want to end the filibuster now?  They used it extensively in 2020 when they were the minority.

President Joe Biden has been increasingly critical of the Senate filibuster, calling it a Jim Crow relic and saying it has been widely abused despite Democrats using it over 300 times in 2020, compared to once by Republicans.

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/democrats-used-filibuster-over-300-times-gop-once

The Democrats went with the nuclear option for Supreme Court nominees and the Republican put 3 in during Trump’s term.

Be careful what you wish for.

[CoffeeTiger 5,099]

27 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

The real question is; why does the Democrats want to end the filibuster now?  They used it extensively in 2020 when they were the minority.

President Joe Biden has been increasingly critical of the Senate filibuster, calling it a Jim Crow relic and saying it has been widely abused despite Democrats using it over 300 times in 2020, compared to once by Republicans.

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/democrats-used-filibuster-over-300-times-gop-once

The Democrats went with the nuclear option for Supreme Court nominees and the Republican put 3 in during Trump’s term.

Be careful what you wish for.

Yes, it would potentially hurt Democrats next time they are in the minority, but that's politics.  It would still be beneficial to reform the filibuster as it's turned from a once seldom used mechanism to provide power to the minority party to a extremely commonly used measure for almost anything simply used to obstruct and stop all progress of the senate. 

 

This is a graph of the usage of the filibuster throughout history. 

 

 

 

[I_M4_AU 7,792]

27 minutes ago, CoffeeTiger said:

Yes, it would potentially hurt Democrats next time they are in the minority, but that's politics.  It would still be beneficial to reform the filibuster as it's turned from a once seldom used mechanism to provide power to the minority party to a extremely commonly used measure for almost anything simply used to obstruct and stop all progress of the senate

I agree that it has been used more and more commonly in recent years.  The issue is not the filibuster, IMO, it is that Democrats and Republicans have grown more radical in their views.  The filibuster is used to give the minority a say in what laws or policies are passed, but now things are being passed with little to no bipartisan cooperation. Not one Republican Senator voted for the *wildly popular* COVID relief bill and they had some real concerns that were not addressed.

The filibuster is supposed to promote compromise, but there is no compromise in today’s environment.  That needs to come back at some point.  It didn’t when Trump was is office and it wouldn’t now the Biden is in office.

[CoffeeTiger 5,099]

9 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

I agree that it has been used more and more commonly in recent years.  The issue is not the filibuster, IMO, it is that Democrats and Republicans have grown more radical in their views.  The filibuster is used to give the minority a say in what laws or policies are passed, but now things are being passed with little to no bipartisan cooperation. Not one Republican Senator voted for the *wildly popular* COVID relief bill and they had some real concerns that were not addressed.

The filibuster is supposed to promote compromise, but there is no compromise in today’s environment.  That needs to come back at some point.  It didn’t when Trump was is office and it wouldn’t now the Biden is in office.

it all sounds good on paper, but until that becomes a reality in American politics again (if it ever does), we can't just keep having a hamstrung Congress that can't pass anything because of never ending filibusters, and a Federal Government that essentially has to run on executive orders because congress is a useless mess. 

 

In my mind the excuse of: "Well, the filibuster used to work well decades ago"  isn't a good justification for why it shouldn't be changed now to address the new political climate. 

[I_M4_AU 7,792]

Just now, CoffeeTiger said:

it all sounds good on paper, but until that becomes a reality in American politics again (if it ever does), we can't just keep having a hamstrung Congress that can't pass anything because of never ending filibusters, and a Federal Government that essentially has to run on executive orders because congress is a useless mess. 

 

In my mind the excuse of: "Well, the filibuster used to work well decades ago"  isn't a good justification for why it shouldn't be changed now to address the new political climate. 

Congress is suppose to run slow and for good reason.  Congress should take back some of the power the executive branch has seized and lead this country again.  I doubt that will happen when the Congress and the President are from the same party.  There is no unity happening and it seems to be by design.  Manchin is holding the line and I hope he succeeds.  He seems the only one on that side of the isle that gets it.

[CoffeeTiger 5,099]

26 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

Congress is suppose to run slow and for good reason.  

Correct. Work slow. Currently, our legislative branch barely works at all. We can barely even pass a yearly budget or debt ceiling raise without stoppages/shutdowns, and near national default. 

Quote

 

Congress should take back some of the power the executive branch has seized and lead this country again.  I doubt that will happen when the Congress and the President are from the same party.  

ending or reforming the filibuster would be a big step in this direction. The Executive branch has taken so much power because nothing can get passed through congress many times.

Quote

 

There is no unity happening and it seems to be by design.  Manchin is holding the line and I hope he succeeds.  He seems the only one on that side of the isle that gets it.

 

Manchin doesn't 'get or 'understand' anything. He's just an old school coot who likes being the center of national attention and holding a lot of power. He knows if the filibuster gets reformed then suddenly he's just a regular senator again and loses a lot of personal power and influence. 

 

[aubaseball 2,591]

2 hours ago, CoffeeTiger said:

Yes, it would potentially hurt Democrats next time they are in the minority, but that's politics.  It would still be beneficial to reform the filibuster as it's turned from a once seldom used mechanism to provide power to the minority party to a extremely commonly used measure for almost anything simply used to obstruct and stop all progress of the senate. 

 

This is a graph of the usage of the filibuster throughout history. 

 

 

 

Do you think maybe it’s this way because there is no compromising going on now between the parties?   I do.  

[CoffeeTiger 5,099]

2 minutes ago, aubaseball said:

Do you think maybe it’s this way because there is no compromising going on now between the parties?   I do.  

Everyone says "Compromise! Unity!" but nobody knows how to make it happen, and neither side's voters actually want their side to move closer to the other. Everyone just wants to force the other side to slide over to them. 

 

Instead of hoping and wishing, we need to operate with how things actually are now.

[wdefromtx 3,159]

Kinda ironic that some folks on this board that in other threads are complaining about Republicans wanting to change rules to get their way but now are completely fine when democrats want to change rules to get their way. 
 

Let’s just change the rules because the parties can’t get along so one party can F everything up only to have the other party f everything up in a different direction once they seize control. 
 

 

[jj3jordan 2,050]

4 hours ago, I_M4_AU said:

Congress is suppose to run slow and for good reason.  Congress should take back some of the power the executive branch has seized and lead this country again.  I doubt that will happen when the Congress and the President are from the same party.  There is no unity happening and it seems to be by design.  Manchin is holding the line and I hope he succeeds.  He seems the only one on that side of the isle that gets it.

Heard Sinema was also on board with Manchin’s stance on the filibuster.

[I_M4_AU 7,792]

1 hour ago, wdefromtx said:

Kinda ironic that some folks on this board that in other threads are complaining about Republicans wanting to change rules to get their way but now are completely fine when democrats want to change rules to get their way. 
 

Let’s just change the rules because the parties can’t get along so one party can F everything up only to have the other party f everything up in a different direction once they seize control. 
 

 

We are living in 4 year chunks with no real vision for the future.  It is pitiful.

[wdefromtx 3,159]

10 minutes ago, jj3jordan said:

Heard Sinema was also on board with Manchin’s stance on the filibuster.

Good

[wdefromtx 3,159]

10 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

We are living in 4 year chunks with no real vision for the future.  It is pitiful.

Yep, It’s definitely turned into a “me me” society and rampant in both parties. 

[DKW 86 7,419]

18 hours ago, wdefromtx said:

Kinda ironic that some folks on this board that in other threads are complaining about Republicans wanting to change rules to get their way but now are completely fine when democrats want to change rules to get their way. 
 

Let’s just change the rules because the parties can’t get along so one party can F everything up only to have the other party f everything up in a different direction once they seize control. 

[autigeremt 6,598]

On 4/9/2021 at 4:49 PM, I_M4_AU said:

We are living in 4 year chunks with no real vision for the future.  It is pitiful.

Once again proof of the failed two party system.