Bryan Harsin take on Bo Nix

[W.E.D 11,070]

12 minutes ago, DAG said:

Quite frankly with all the resources that Bo has had at his disposal, there is honestly no reason why anyone should be try to rationalize a way for him to get to 60 percent. In the past we have been much harder on QBs regarding that. 

So any kid that has a QB coach should automatically be elite his Fr/Soph years?  Every top 200 QB has private coaches and got the same coaching he did.  From a HS coach who played football once & wasn't good enough to coach in advance levels.

[W.E.D 11,070]

25 minutes ago, AUCE05 said:

You are quoting me.  I am making my assumptions on the past 4 to 5 years of data points on Bo.  He is a very average QB.  He has yet to breech the 60% passing completion rate.  He has 13 INTs in two season.  The majority of his pass completions are WR bubble screens.  His deep passes over 20 yards is embarrassing.  He can't stay in the packet long enough to read a defense. At his age, it is time to produce or move on.  I am tired of waiting on Bo to do something.  

I agree with you on a lot of that, but he's a covid-Soph going into this season.  Acting like he's a seasoned Sr with elite talent around him and he's brining down the offense it's all on him that he's not performing is nuts.

13 picks in 25 games really isn't that bad. 6 picks, excuse me 6.5 since we have to use exact numbers per @DAG a season really isn't bad.  I agree, and posted elsewhere recently that he needs to get better on deep balls.  His deep ball comp% is also a factor of Gus' awful offense where anything over 15 yards was a bomb.  That's going to change just because of the offense.

I completely get any argument of Bo the last 2 years.  He wasn't good.  He also had the worst coaching in the SEC outside probably Vandy.  That's changed.  @steeleagle posted a pretty good summarization in the Bo Platform thread.  He showed improvement in A-Day.  He had better mechanics and pocket presence than he's ever had in the years prior.  That's the result of legit coaching.

He got better year 1 to year 2, got real coaching for the first time in his adult life and show a little of it in A-Day.  He needs to keep improving. 

Jason Campbell was pretty mech his first three years until he blew up his Sr year.  Burrow couldn't ever find a starting job, was worse than Bo his 1st year at LSU, then got good coaching a lit the world on fire.  Went from 57% to 76% in an off season 🤣 ( @DAG be warned those numbers are rounded).  I'm sure there other examples of kids getting better after their TrFr/TrSo season.  Please don't think I'm saying Bo will become Joe Burrow, but coaching/scheme/experience can change kids that have been average.

Bo hasn't gotten legit coaching until this year.

[auburnphan 6,050]

My take:   Bo is still broken but there were signs of improvement.

The biggest thing he has to do is learn to stand in the pocket, complete the pass with proper fundamentals, then take the hit or roll off the hit.  The biggest problem is it is hard to practice that with the risk of injury and all.  It is not natural or instinctive for him at this point.  Right now I would just be happy if he can become an effective game manager at the position and anything else is a bonus.

[DAG 33,977]

29 minutes ago, W.E.D said:

So any kid that has a QB coach should automatically be elite his Fr/Soph years?  Every top 200 QB has private coaches and got the same coaching he did.  From a HS coach who played football once & wasn't good enough to coach in advance levels.

Is competing 60% of your passes consistently really the same thing as saying someone needs to be elite? Elite would be in that 70% range. The extremes are insane with you . 

[DAG 33,977]

4 hours ago, W.E.D said:

Considering he completed 60% last year vs all sec teams.

Really you never said this ? You got issues man. Does anyone else understand the point I am making here or am I in left field ? Lol.

[W.E.D 11,070]

19 minutes ago, DAG said:

Really you never said this ? You got issues man. 

Yes, in response to someone saying he was a guy how completed mid 50s, this is accurate.  

I'm pretty sure 59.5% isn't accurate either.  At a minimum it is rounded and probably numbers after the 5.  Can't have any rounding, right?  Let's check the math....(Preview: YIKES, you are wrong)

https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/bo-nix-1/gamelog/2020/

He threw 357 passes, 214 completions.  take away his 25/42 in the bowl game and he threw 315 passes and 189 completions.

Do that math... That is actually EXACTLY 60%.  So, my statement was 100% right.  Not sure who brought up 59.5%.  That is wrong.  I guess that makes you the liar, eh?

 

  

4 hours ago, DAG said:

You've mentioned he completed 60% passing against all SEC teams last year, yet every statistical has him at 59.5 % rate for the whole year.

😬 😬 😬 😬 😬  😬 😬 😬 😬  😬 😬 😬 😬

I guess that was you that brought up 59.5%.  Check your math, you're wrong.  It's 60

[W.E.D 11,070]

@DAGI look forward to your apology and slanderous accusations against Bo that he only completed 59.5% of his passes vs SEC teams last year. 😀

tyfys

[DAG 33,977]

5 minutes ago, W.E.D said:

@DAGI look forward to your apology and slanderous accusations against Bo that he only completed 59.5% of his passes vs SEC teams last year.

tyfys

You are right! I apologize. Now that is how you use data to back up what you say. If you do that and prove your point, Hey I can admit when I am wrong. 

[W.E.D 11,070]

1 minute ago, DAG said:

You are right! I apologize. 

Ha.  Thank you!  It's been weighing on Bo and Pat all morning.  Now lets all hop on the Bo train to a Natty & Heisman. 

Did you get that number from somewhere else?  I didn't even do the exact division until now & laughed when it came out exactly 60%.  Had to check like 4 times.

[DAG 33,977]

8 minutes ago, W.E.D said:

Ha.  Thank you!  It's been weighing on Bo and Pat all morning.  Now lets all hop on the Bo train to a Natty & Heisman. 

Did you get that number from somewhere else?  I didn't even do the exact division until now & laughed when it came out exactly 60%.  Had to check like 4 times.

I didn't even calculate all of the numbers to be honest. I just saw that you said he threw for 60% against ALL sec teams and took that as, He did that against every individual team. But in reality ALL can mean total, which you did indeed PROVE! So I was wrong and you were right. I can respect that.

59.5% was the NW game. I think I mixed that up with his season total of 59.9%. But on average he did in fact throw for 60% during the regular season.

[W.E.D 11,070]

1 minute ago, DAG said:

I didn't even calculate all of the numbers to be honest. I just saw that you said he threw for 60% against ALL sec teams and took that as, He did that against every individual team. But in reality ALL can mean total, which you did indeed PROVE! So I was wrong and you were right. I can respect that.

Yeah I meant in aggregate.  Gus would probably have a job if he was actually 60% against all teams, he had some awful game like UGA, USC, & Bama.  Still would love to know why Gus decided to attack the top 1/2 CB in all of college football when we played USC.  Maybe don't throw at the top DB in the country b/c you believe we just have to execute to make plays magically work.

Looking forward to an offense that schemes vs screaming "execute better".  There are flaws in Bo and other offensive players, but Gus did his best to minimize any talent we had.  Scheme/System alone will make every player on our offense better. 

[keesler 5,924]

I know Harsin & Bobo haven't implemented a firm offensive scheme yet, but A-Day had visions of Malzhan/Lindsey IMO.  Did anyone else watch and see those resemblances?

 

[DAG 33,977]

1 minute ago, W.E.D said:

Yeah I meant in aggregate.  Gus would probably have a job if he was actually 60% against all teams, he had some awful game like UGA, USC, & Bama.  Still would love to know why Gus decided to attack the top 1/2 CB in all of college football when we played USC.  Maybe don't throw at the top DB in the country b/c you believe we just have to execute to make plays magically work.

Looking forward to an offense that schemes vs screaming "execute better".  There are flaws in Bo and other offensive players, but Gus did his best to minimize any talent we had.  Scheme/System alone will make every player on our offense better. 

And this is exactly why we discuss with data. I assumed you were talking individually. This caused you to actually go in check numbers and to both our surprises, he averaged 60% the whole season against the SEC. If people did this more often, things would go a lot smoother around here. I think that is the BARE MINIMUM for any QB at the collegiate level to be sufficient. He really needs to be in that 64-65% range IMO.

[DAG 33,977]

Just now, keesler said:

I know Harsin & Bobo haven't implemented a firm offensive scheme yet, but A-Day had visions of Malzhan/Lindsey IMO.  Did anyone else watch and see those resemblances?

 

Well that offensive was statistically pretty good, so if that is the case, I expect we will have a decent season. Lindsey low key gets a bad rep here,

[fredst 9,064]

1 minute ago, DAG said:

Lindsey low key gets a bad rep here,

Considering that he was handicapped within the system he was working in I agree completely 

[toddc 13,194]

11 minutes ago, DAG said:

And this is exactly why we discuss with data. I assumed you were talking individually. This caused you to actually go in check numbers and to both our surprises, he averaged 60% the whole season against the SEC. If people did this more often, things would go a lot smoother around here. I think that is the BARE MINIMUM for any QB at the collegiate level to be sufficient. He really needs to be in that 64-65% range IMO.

I want to give you guys a standing ovation for showing how to come together, but it took too long so you get a golf 👏! 😝 

[gravejd 3,270]

13 minutes ago, keesler said:

I know Harsin & Bobo haven't implemented a firm offensive scheme yet, but A-Day had visions of Malzhan/Lindsey IMO.  Did anyone else watch and see those resemblances?

 

Yes and i thought the resemblance should be expected. The Harsin offense is not that much different than Malzahns. They both run a spread that leans towards power run sets. My hope is that there is more diversity in the new offense. More options for the QBs, better route tree for WRs, more TE/ middle of the field targets, and some under center play action. But the base offense is the same spread. Lot of the same plays but designed a little different and you won't notice that unless you breakdown film. 

At this point i imagine we are still installing the base offense and if we have started introducing other concepts they probably did not want that on film for opposing teams. If we see the same offense when the season starts i'll be very very sad and very very drunk by end of our first game

[W.E.D 11,070]

42 minutes ago, DAG said:

And this is exactly why we discuss with data. I assumed you were talking individually. This caused you to actually go in check numbers and to both our surprises, he averaged 60% the whole season against the SEC. If people did this more often, things would go a lot smoother around here. I think that is the BARE MINIMUM for any QB at the collegiate level to be sufficient. He really needs to be in that 64-65% range IMO.

Yup, agree on the comp%. Don't think it's outside the realm of possibility. Think this all started with someone on page one saying he needs to be at 60%, which I said was low

[cole256 17,043]

4 hours ago, DAG said:

And this is exactly why we discuss with data. I assumed you were talking individually. This caused you to actually go in check numbers and to both our surprises, he averaged 60% the whole season against the SEC. If people did this more often, things would go a lot smoother around here. I think that is the BARE MINIMUM for any QB at the collegiate level to be sufficient. He really needs to be in that 64-65% range IMO.

This is something I don't have the opportunity to do. A person can literally say something one post up and I explain it's not accurate and post the accurate number and not only will it be ignored a person that wasn't involved in the convo will come in and say something about arguing and the snowball starts.

I don't one time ever I've said this person said this and it wasn't said but I continue to get the same stuff. And if I go quote the statement I'm starting an argument with that person.

 

[cole256 17,043]

5 hours ago, auburnphan said:

My take:   Bo is still broken but there were signs of improvement.

The biggest thing he has to do is learn to stand in the pocket, complete the pass with proper fundamentals, then take the hit or roll off the hit.  The biggest problem is it is hard to practice that with the risk of injury and all.  It is not natural or instinctive for him at this point.  Right now I would just be happy if he can become an effective game manager at the position and anything else is a bonus.

This is my take in a nutshell

[cole256 17,043]

5 hours ago, W.E.D said:

So any kid that has a QB coach should automatically be elite his Fr/Soph years?  Every top 200 QB has private coaches and got the same coaching he did.  From a HS coach who played football once & wasn't good enough to coach in advance levels.

Any kid in that situation should be sound in their footwork and not throwing off their back foot

[cole256 17,043]

9 hours ago, gravejd said:

I just don't see where in this thread that anyone is trying to hype up Bo Nix. I think Bo was hyped up too much coming in. Largely thanks to his 5* rating and being a legacy, but IMO its pretty much known now what he is. And i don't see anyone on this board talking about him being a superstar or savior of Auburn any longer. Maybe i'm not seeing it through your eyes though so if you can quote the posts that are hyping him up pls do cause i'd like to see where you are coming from. 

I'm not going to quote it but it's still some o line fault, Gus fault, will to win stuff

[cole256 17,043]

9 hours ago, abw0004 said:

I will preface this by saying I am a huge Nix fan so I do have those shades on.  I do think this new system could help Nix unlock his full potential with Bobo helping develop.  I have hope he will exceed expectations.  I would say that for any player though, as I want everyone to succeed and defy expectations.

I think some people are saying that is from what they remembered from Stidham.  In comparing the two in their body language on the sideline when we were losing I remember Stidham could be seen smiling and laughing compared to Nix who was all kinds of mad that he did not perform better.

They they should just compare it to just stidham. As far as any other QB's we've had and I'd include gatewood I don't think that it's true at all

[Hank2020 3,199]

8 hours ago, DAG said:

No it is not. If it was you wouldn't have to round up

Never said he didn't

Okay

 

Another cognitive distortion on your part. All or nothing thinking. It is not awful, but it is not very good. In fact, he is rated #10 out of 12 QBs based on that. Probably why people aren't jumping to the conclusion you are seeking.

http://www.cfbstats.com/2020/leader/911/player/split01/category02/sort03.html

Dag, I love the new term cognitive distortion (new to me that is). I can’t wait to throw that one out at our family Christmas get-together. It fits well with my group.

[cole256 17,043]

I have a pretty big surgery coming up. I'll drop in every now and again to follow this convo