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Nick Marshall vs Pat Sullivan


Zeek

Who's better?  

45 members have voted

  1. 1. Nick Marshall or Pat Sullivan?



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Saw this debate blowing up on Twitter earlier...

Here are their career stats

Nick Marshall:

Screenshot_20210424-192354_Chrome.thumb.jpg.5fba26a879d7a025cc59e3520ccf8a2a.jpg

Screenshot_20210424-192438_Chrome.thumb.jpg.08fef015dcd31875733ec24439824a3f.jpg

 

Pat Sullivan's

Screenshot_20210424-192656_Chrome.thumb.jpg.524f87b8ecb349a4b0a456bab28a085e.jpg

Screenshot_20210424-192750_Chrome.thumb.jpg.21daa9e60132a4d4571e453791f4bc3d.jpg

Screenshot_20210424-192438_Chrome.jpg

Edited by Zeek
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This was a tough one. My deciding factor was who I thought would do better against a Bama defense from the past decade.

The game and players are just so much different now. Bigger, stronger, faster. 

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Sullivan played back when quarterbacks were considered football players and weren't protected like they are now, and his receivers were molested by bump and run secondary coverage.  I think his numbers would be bigger today.  Nick is probably the most underrated quarterback in college football in the last twenty years.   I saw a lot of games by both in person, and I love them both - but give me  Sullivan.

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These things are dumb to me - different eras, different game, different facilities, different everything. Silly to compare. I have no problem saying they're both very good and moving on from that.

Edited by boisnumber1
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24 minutes ago, boisnumber1 said:

These things are dumb to me - different eras, different game, different facilities, different everything. Silly to compare. I have no problem saying they're both very good and moving on from that.

I do get your point , although I think it is fun to debate. I don’t like when people down one decade or another which has already happened. 

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Anyone who thinks this is a tough decision didn't see Sullivan play. Nick Marshall was a great AU quarterback, but he wasn't a Pat Sullivan.

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12 minutes ago, Mikey said:

Nick Marshall was a great AU quarterback, but he wasn't a Pat Sullivan.

Statistically speaking you are wrong . That’s the problem with black and white statements . I am admittedly bias and I am not going to say who is better , as much as it is just a preference thing for me. I appreciate Pat’s style during his time. 

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They were both great players but the eras are so different. Both would have been great players in each other’s era which is the true measure of greatness I think, but it’s all subjective. Tucker Fredrickson didn’t have eye popping numbers but would have been great in any era. Tre Mason had great numbers but was more a product of the system the year he had his great numbers. Always interesting to have the discussions but I doubt anyone is going to have their personal bias swayed by anyone’s arguments 

good job @Zeek starting another thread for people to argue 😜

Edited by fredst
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17 minutes ago, fredst said:

They were both great players but the eras are so different. Both would have been great players in each other’s era which is the true measure of greatness I think, but it’s all subjective. Tucker Fredrickson didn’t have eye popping numbers but would have been great in any era. Tre Mason had great numbers but was more a product of the system the year he had his great numbers. Always interesting to have the discussions but I doubt anyone is going to have their personal bias swayed by anyone’s arguments 

good job @Zeek starting another thread for people to argue 😜

Tucker Frederickson also played during a time where the talent level, the integration of the game , etc was completely different . So although I agree the system did benefit someone like Tre, the talent level is insanely way different . 

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17 minutes ago, DAG said:

Statistically speaking you are wrong . That’s the problem with black and white statements . I am admittedly bias and I am not going to say who is better , as much as it is just a preference thing for me. I appreciate Pat’s style during his time. 

 

Comparing statistics of completely different eras is difficult. But if you want to compare statistics, compare one that evaluates the player against the peers of  his era. There is one such measure, the Heisman trophy. So this is pretty easy, one of these players won the Heisman, the other didn't even come close. 

 

Loved watching Nick, he was magic at the qb/rb exchange point, a great runner, a winner, and almost a National Champion. But the other guy won the Heisman.

 

gabo

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14 hours ago, Zeek said:

Saw this debate blowing up on Twitter earlier...

Here are their career stats

Nick Marshall:

Screenshot_20210424-192354_Chrome.thumb.jpg.5fba26a879d7a025cc59e3520ccf8a2a.jpg

Screenshot_20210424-192438_Chrome.thumb.jpg.08fef015dcd31875733ec24439824a3f.jpg

 

Pat Sullivan's

Screenshot_20210424-192656_Chrome.thumb.jpg.524f87b8ecb349a4b0a456bab28a085e.jpg

Screenshot_20210424-192750_Chrome.thumb.jpg.21daa9e60132a4d4571e453791f4bc3d.jpg

Screenshot_20210424-192438_Chrome.jpg

I think what's amazing in these stats, is how many rushing TDs Sullivan had. One doesn't think of him as anything but a drop back passer. And its amazing he had 18 TDs rushing in 158 attempts compared to Marshall's 23 TDs in 325 attempts.

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36 minutes ago, gabo4au said:

 

Comparing statistics of completely different eras is difficult. But if you want to compare statistics, compare one that evaluates the player against the peers of  his era. There is one such measure, the Heisman trophy. So this is pretty easy, one of these players won the Heisman, the other didn't even come close. 

 

Loved watching Nick, he was magic at the qb/rb exchange point, a great runner, a winner, and almost a National Champion. But the other guy won the Heisman.

 

gabo

Again , The talent level pales in comparison that is why it is short sighted to have such an argument . I mean I love wilt chamberlain and I think he could work players in this generation but if we are basing his greatness against his peers compared to Hakeem the dream and his peers? Come on man, it isn’t even close.

Edited by DAG
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2 hours ago, boisnumber1 said:

I have no problem saying they're both very good and moving on from that.

Agree. Different eras make it tough to compare. Sullivan was the first QB for me as a kid that I saw. He was larger than life at that time for us so no one compares on that level. If I remember correctly he called his own plays too. Doesn't mean he was better because of that. It's just the difference in times. I loved watching Marshall play too. He was a magician in my opinion. Never knew what he was going to do with the ball. With all of that said there are two players who put us on a level playing field with the rest of the best. Pat Sullivan and Bo Jackson. No shade thrown to Cam or Nick intended. Just blame my age. 

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4 hours ago, DAG said:

I do get your point , although I think it is fun to debate. I don’t like when people down one decade or another which has already happened. 

We can agree to disagree. I think it's cool to look at the stats and compare, but to me any debate is worthless. Even the stats basically say more about the era they played in rather than the player's ability.

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Two different eras so not a fair comparison. In his day Sullivan had no equal. In his day Marshall did. Sullivan vs. Newton would be tougher for me.

 

Edited by Proud Tiger
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Nick's running ability just makes him so much more versatile if we're picking teams. Plus a better completion percentage and better TD-INT ratio. 

Is Sullivan a better pure passer? Probably. But I still give the edge to Nick. 

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12 minutes ago, Zeek said:

Nick's running ability just makes him so much more versatile if we're picking teams. Plus a better completion percentage and better TD-INT ratio. 

Is Sullivan a better pure passer? Probably. But I still give the edge to Nick. 

Dead even in the polls and I bet it is an age thing which brings me back to my original premise..it is about preference 

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8 minutes ago, DAG said:

Dead even in the polls and I bet it is an age thing which brings me back to my original premise..it is about preference 

Yup, it's hard for the older folks to give any inch on this one. Hard for the young bucks who didn't get to watch Pat live. 

I'm sure I'll be 40-60 one day with some young bucks trying to tell me someone is better than Cam... I won't budge

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3 hours ago, augolf1716 said:

Randy Walls tops all of them.........fastest QB to step foot on the AU campus

I may be the only guy on here who knows who Walls was...what do you think of Wade Whatley since we're at it...but Walls was marginally faster than Ben Leard.  Both could be run down from behind by the cripples children clinic team.

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1 hour ago, Zeek said:

Nick's running ability just makes him so much more versatile if we're picking teams. Plus a better completion percentage and better TD-INT ratio. 

Is Sullivan a better pure passer? Probably. But I still give the edge to Nick. 

Back when Sully played, we passed almost exclusively on 3rd down.  So a better compare would be comparing Sullivan to Marshal's 3rd down comp %...

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I just couldn’t bring myself to vote.   I was born in 77 so I never got to see Sully live.   Nick was magic in that system and Gus got paid a lot of $ thanks to Nick and Cam!

The stats are impossible to compare because of era, style of play, schedules, and hundreds of other variables.  
 

Without a doubt, two legends that will forever be remembered on the Plains!!!

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