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Nick Marshall vs Pat Sullivan


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Who's better?  

45 members have voted

  1. 1. Nick Marshall or Pat Sullivan?



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1 hour ago, japantiger said:

I may be the only guy on here who knows who Walls was...what do you think of Wade Whatley since we're at it...but Walls was marginally faster than Ben Leard.  Both could be run down from behind by the cripples children clinic team.

Old Wade could throw the prettiest ball it just seem to float threw the air never turned end over end. Guy could throw it 60 yards with a few bounces

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“Blindfolded, with both hands tied behind his back, Pat Sullivan would be a 7 point favorite at his own execution “.    Alf Van Hoose. Sports editor Bham News 

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6 hours ago, augolf1716 said:

Randy Walls tops all of them.........fastest QB to step foot on the AU campus

Easy big fella....Daniel Cobb takes a back seat to no one

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2 hours ago, japantiger said:

I may be the only guy on here who knows who Walls was...what do you think of Wade Whatley

Nope, you are not the only one to remember them. I think they played on the same team. Wasn't Walls the starting quarterback in the 1972 Iron Bowl, and didn't he engineer the late drive for the field goal that had the fans unhappy, but turned out to be pivotal in the (17-16) AU comeback victory.

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9 hours ago, bigbird said:

im-not-surprised-surprise-o-meter.gif

My stalker is back! Where have you been? I posted several times in the baseball forum. Somehow you missed those. Better hurry over there with another mindless gif.

While you're here in the football forum, explain the "process" whereby we are going to add seven more football transfers when only three slots remain. :) :) :) .

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13 hours ago, DAG said:

Statistically speaking you are wrong . That’s the problem with black and white statements . I am admittedly bias and I am not going to say who is better , as much as it is just a preference thing for me. I appreciate Pat’s style during his time. 

As noted above, Sullivan was number one among his peers. He won the Heisman. Marshall was not and did not.

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I tried to even up Sully and Marshall's statistical touches for a better comparison and to account for the increased plays Sully would have seen in the modern game.

I did this by multiplying all Sully's stats by 1.3. Below is how they stack up, comparing only their JR and SR seasons.

Sullivan (919 touches):

JR (70): 217-365, 3362 yds, 22 TD and 16 INT. 67 rush/351 yds/12 TD.

SR (71): 237-422, 2940 yds, 27 TD and 17 INT. 65 rush/86 yds/3 TD.

Marshall (857 touches):

JR (13): 142-239, 1976 yds, 14 TD and 6 INT. 172 rush/1068 yds, 12 TD.

SR (14): 178-293, 2532 yds, 20 TD and 7 INT. 153 rush/798 yds, 11 TD.

That would give Sully 64 total TDs, with Nick grabbing 57. Sully with 30 as a senior, Nick with 31.

Roughly 1000 more total yards for Sully when comparing their JR years. But Nick gained about 300 more total yards his SR year than Pat.

Biggest difference is turnovers. Can't find Nick's fumbles-lost anywhere, but even if he lost a couple, he is way less turnover prone than Pat.

All that said, you can't really compare eras. But interesting how close they were in production when you do.

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Huge Nick Marshall fan but would never admit Nick better than Sullivan....never thought about. Always found it interesting that lost in the shuffle behind Pat was Ralph “Dieter” Brock. Transferred to Jax State and went on to become a CFL great. Ended career with LA Rams in 85 I think. Had a rifle for an arm......” could throw a football through a carwash and it would never get wet.”

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19 minutes ago, SaltyTiger said:

Huge Nick Marshall fan but would never admit Nick better than Sullivan....never thought about. Always found it interesting that lost in the shuffle behind Pat was Ralph “Dieter” Brock. Transferred to Jax State and went on to become a CFL great. Ended career with LA Rams in 85 I think. Had a rifle for an arm......” could throw a football through a carwash and it would never get wet.”

Very cool. Never had heard this somehow

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15 minutes ago, fredst said:

Very cool. Never had heard this somehow

Oh yeah Dieter was called the Birmingham Rifle but was behind Pat. hell of a QB made the CFL Hall of Fame I believe

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1 hour ago, SaltyTiger said:

Huge Nick Marshall fan but would never admit Nick better than Sullivan....never thought about. Always found it interesting that lost in the shuffle behind Pat was Ralph “Dieter” Brock. Transferred to Jax State and went on to become a CFL great. Ended career with LA Rams in 85 I think. Had a rifle for an arm......” could throw a football through a carwash and it would never get wet.”

Back in those days freshmen were not eligible for varsity play and schools had a freshman team that played four games a year. I was on campus then and saw Ralph Brock play. The guy could throw the football!

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22 hours ago, gabo4au said:

But if you want to compare statistics, compare one that evaluates the player against the peers of  his era. There is one such measure, the Heisman trophy. So this is pretty easy, one of these players won the Heisman, the other didn't even come close. 

I don't mean to be rude and I don't have a dog in this fight, but I don't think this is the objective argument you think it is. 

On 4/25/2021 at 9:15 AM, im4aual said:

Sullivan played back when quarterbacks were considered football players and weren't protected like they are now, and his receivers were molested by bump and run secondary coverage. 

Neither of these factors would seem to favor Sullivan over a true DT QB who specialized in option play and throwing on the run. (They would definitely favor him over the Tom Bradys and Peyton Mannings of the world.)

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2 hours ago, augolf1716 said:

Oh yeah Dieter was called the Birmingham Rifle but was behind Pat. hell of a QB made the CFL Hall of Fame I believe

I know Dieter Brock from his CFL greatness but had somehow missed (or forgot) that he had been at Auburn. Too many PBRs I guess...

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16 hours ago, augolf1716 said:

Old Wade could throw the prettiest ball it just seem to float threw the air never turned end over end. Guy could throw it 60 yards with a few bounces

And Wade lead us to a big Gator Bowl win over Colorado in Wall's absence. Imagine a backup QB being prepared to lead a team to victory.. 

Yeah, I said it. But it's true. 

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I won't pick.  To different era's.  NM was beautiful to watch in 2013. He was a GREAT split decision maker. Some games I was just in awe watching the game flow. I became an Auburn fan in the Reggie Slack era so I cannot really speak on PS other than what I've heard.

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This is like trying to compare Jamiel Holloway to Sam Bradford. 2 different eras and 2 vastly different offenses and rule sets. All it is is personal opinion/preference. You can't objectively and factually make a choice.

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19 hours ago, augolf1716 said:

Old Wade could throw the prettiest ball it just seem to float threw the air never turned end over end. Guy could throw it 60 yards with a few bounces

As a kid still remember, 1965 vs FL,  Buddy Rutledge or one of the broadcasters saying "Alex Bowden's long passes are like Abe Lincoln. Ugly but get the job done."

See the approx 23:15 mark

 

 

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22 minutes ago, SaltyTiger said:

As a kid still remember, 1965 vs FL,  Buddy Rutledge or one of the broadcasters saying "Alex Bowden's long passes are like Abe Lincoln. Ugly but get the job done."

See the approx 23:15 mark

 

 

Not one of Spurriers better games

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Can't do it. I can appreciate Pat's impact, but never personally saw those teams play. 

On the other hand, Nick exceeded all of my expectations and was lightning to watch.  It wasn't his fault he didn't take home the trophy. 

 

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6 hours ago, Mikey said:

Back in those days freshmen were not eligible for varsity play and schools had a freshman team that played four games a year. I was on campus then and saw Ralph Brock play. The guy could throw the football!

But could he play LB and isn’t that what really matters?

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Different times, different styles of play, different defenses, different rules. Hard to make an apples to apples comparison. More appropriate comparison would be seeing how they stacked up against their peers of the day.

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2 hours ago, TexasTiger said:

But could he play LB and isn’t that what really matters?

Bo would have been an all American at LB. Heard Coach Dye say there was never a time when Bo was on the field that he did not make the tackle after turnover on interception. Of course throwing was so rare it could not have happened often.

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