Malzahn and the draft

[AUght2win 6,818]

5 hours ago, Hank2020 said:

Compare year 7 with the Brown and crew with the same as you compared with in eight. Interested to see how it works.

After Dye's 7th season, he had Aundray Bruce go #1 overall.

Tubbs' did not have a big haul after his 7th year. Marcus McNeill was first off the board in the mid 2nd round. 

However, that was the year after Auburn's best draft class ever, with 4 guys taken in the top 25, and the only entire backfield in college football history to be drafted in the 1st round. 

[Hank2020 3,195]

5 minutes ago, AUght2win said:

After Dye's 7th season, he had Aundray Bruce go #1 overall.

Tubbs' did not have a big haul after his 7th year. Marcus McNeill was first off the board in the mid 2nd round. 

However, that was the year after Auburn's best draft class ever, with 4 guys taken in the top 25, and the only entire backfield in college football history to be drafted in the 1st round. 

Thx for the comparisons. My gut feeling was that Dye got worse players but helped them to better ready for NFL. I thought Tubbs was about equal to Malzahn overall in players to NFl( more success against UGA and UoA though). These were gut feelings though backed up by statistics. 

[bigbird 60,368]

42 minutes ago, W.E.D said:

Some like Britt he's not getting taller. Might as well go now. Schwartz probably wouldn't have gotten much higher.

I do think Seth would have been a day two pick in a legit offense with a good season. 

Yeah, Britt was probably the best option, but a very good, injury free season would've lifted him to 3rd round, IMO.

[bigbird 60,368]

37 minutes ago, aucanucktiger said:

Most players that would not have eentered the draft early but for a coaching change (e.g. many Auburn underclassmen in this draft) are not high draft picks

Which would've stayed if Gus had?

[Dual-Threat Rigby 8,641]

12 hours ago, AUght2win said:

You must not follow college football then. Auburn is no stranger to the first round. In fact, what we are experiencing now is a departure from the norm.

Over the past 35 seasons we've had 20 first round picks. We should be doing at least one every other year. 

The modern SEC has been shaped by the early 2000s, by Richt’s tenure, the death of Tenn, Saban establishing LSU, and I was doing a good for Auburn by going that far. If you want to go back to the late 80s, UTk and Florida should be killing it too lmao. 

[Dual-Threat Rigby 8,641]

12 hours ago, AUght2win said:

If Tank goes first round in two years, I'd probably credit Gus with a third. Although an argument could be made that Harsin developed him.

An argument could be made that a guy who was a top 2 back in the SEC BEFORE Harsin came should be counted as Harsin’s product, because...

Greg Robinson shouldn’t be counted as Gus’s product, when he had his only noteworthy season under Gus (certainly the only one that would’ve raised his stock as high as it got), because...

you have to start taking emotion of your arguments man. 

[EastAl_Tiger 225]

I think in Gus' mind, his goal was to recruit players he thought would be good in his offense. If they went on the the NFL, so be it.  his scheme came first. 

the scheme by the way, that Stidham's QB coach with the Pats basically said is the bottom of the barrel in terms of getting a QB ready to succeed in the pros.  

Edited May 1, 2021 by EastAl_Tiger

[AUght2win 6,818]

51 minutes ago, Hank2020 said:

Thx for the comparisons. My gut feeling was that Dye got worse players but helped them to better ready for NFL. I thought Tubbs was about equal to Malzahn overall in players to NFl( more success against UGA and UoA though). These were gut feelings though backed up by statistics. 

Tubbs was arguably the best nfl pipeline coach in Auburn history. He put a lot of guys in that had solid careers.

[AUght2win 6,818]

30 minutes ago, Dual-Threat Rigby said:

Greg Robinson shouldn’t be counted as Gus’s product, when he had his only noteworthy season under Gus (certainly the only one that would’ve raised his stock as high as it got), because...

Huh? 

[W.E.D 11,070]

49 minutes ago, bigbird said:

Yeah, Britt was probably the best option, but a very good, injury free season would've lifted him to 3rd round, IMO.

Maybe, but he's a one or two down LB and not fast.  A healed hand wouldn't have made him any faster. He's not the typical LB in today's NFL

Edited May 1, 2021 by W.E.D

[bigbird 60,368]

11 minutes ago, W.E.D said:

Maybe, but he's a one or two down LB and not fast.  A healed hand wouldn't have made him any faster. He's not the typical LB in today's NFL

Neither is Josh Bynes, but he has been made a good career. I look at Britt as a more athletic Bynes

[W.E.D 11,070]

22 minutes ago, bigbird said:

Neither is Josh Bynes, but he has been made a good career. I look at Britt as a more athletic Bynes

He was also Undrafted, which kinda proves my point. Staying a year isn't going to get him drafted any higher, doesn't mean he can't have a good career 

Edited May 1, 2021 by W.E.D

[bigbird 60,368]

25 minutes ago, W.E.D said:

He was also Undrafted, which kinda proves my point. Staying a year isn't going to get him drafted any higher, doesn't mean he can't have a good career 

Definitely possible.  To me, since he missed so much this year, having another successful year on film might've brought him into better focus to some GMs.  

 

Doesn't matter though, he's drafted now and to a great opportunity

[Dual-Threat Rigby 8,641]

1 hour ago, AUght2win said:

Huh? 

I don’t know what was hard to understand there lol. He had 3 seasons on the collegiate level, only one was a season worth reporting about. Who was the head coach for that season 

[Eagle Eye 7 2,535]

21 hours ago, AUght2win said:

Gus was in year 8 at a Top 15 traditional power and the first guy drafted is late round 3. The rest of the draft doesn't look like we'll see many more of our guys taken, either.

I'm curious how this class stacks up to other draft classes produced by coaches in their 8th year at an upper echelon job.

I looked at how Malzahn stacked up to Dye and Tubbs.

In the '89 draft after Dye's 8th year, Lawyer Tillman went #31 overall, then 2 more second rounders, and Tracy Rocker was taken at the beginning of the third.

Tubbs' 8th season was 2006. In the 2007 draft we had Ben Grubbs go 1st round, then Kenny Irons in the 2nd.

Just another stat to confirm it was undeniably time for a change. I hope we can get back to having 2 or 3 guys in the first 2 rounds every single season.

If we do then we will be winning ballgames . Gus just didn’t motivate anyone. He thought if the guys just liked him then everything would be good. It wasn’t. Coaches like Saban and Dabo tell their guys that if they want to play in the NFL they have to work their butts off everyday, daylight to dark. They have to play every snap and play at 100% each play. Coaches are not there to win popularity contest they are there to help their players be all they can be and that means pushing them till they drop and make them get up and push some more. If a coach does that he will create winners that will go high in the draft and make money and then they will appreciate those coaches. 

Edited May 2, 2021 by Eagle Eye 7

[AUght2win 6,818]

4 hours ago, Dual-Threat Rigby said:

I don’t know what was hard to understand there lol. He had 3 seasons on the collegiate level, only one was a season worth reporting about. Who was the head coach for that season 

G.Rob played 2 seasons of college ball and left as a redshirt sophomore. He was a highly touted recruit with freaky talent. That didn't just suddenly appear when Gus arrived. What, specifically, did Gus do with G.Rob that he deserves credit for him over Chizik? 

If you want to make an argument for system fit, then you'll have to also be open to giving credit to Harsin after Tank plays 2 seasons in a much better pro-style attack. 

IMO, like Tank for Harsin, Malzahn inherited a highly talented dude that naturally matured into the mauler that went 2nd overall.

[AUght2win 6,818]

4 minutes ago, Eagle Eye 7 said:

If we do then we will be winning ballgames . Gus just didn’t motivate anyone. He thought if the guys just liked him then everything would be good. It wasn’t. Coaches like Saban and Dabo tell their guys that if they want to play in the NFL they have to work their butts off everyday, daylight to dark. They have to play every snap and play at 100% each play. Coaches are not there to win popularity contest they are there to help their players be all they can be and that means pushing them till they drop and make them get up and push some more. If a coach does that he will create winners that will go high in the draft and make money and then they will appreciate those coaches. 

Excellent post. Gus' whole appeal was comfort. He was comfortable with "solid" 8 win seasons. He was comfortable never evolving his system. He made his players too comfortable as well.

Hopefully Harsin keeps our guys uncomfortable. 

[Mikey 16,550]

11 hours ago, W.E.D said:

Spin it, bud

Well that was rude. I told the truth, if you choose not to believe me, so be it.

 

[ToomersStreet 795]

On 4/30/2021 at 9:49 PM, Mikey said:

QUOTE: "I hope we can get back to having 2 or 3 guys in the first 2 rounds every single season. "

Last year::

DAY 1

• DT Derrick Brown. Round 1, Pick 7, Carolina Panthers.
• CB Noah Igbinoghene. Round 1, Pick 30, Miami Dolphins.
• DL Marlon Davidson. Round 2, Pick 47, Atlanta Falcons.
• OL Jack Driscoll. Round 4, Pick 145, Philadelphia Eagles.

Oh look three defensive players that Gus and his "system" have nothing to do with.

[W.E.D 11,070]

1 hour ago, ToomersStreet said:

Oh look three defensive players that Gus and his "system" have nothing to do with.

And the 4th Day 1 draft pick was a Grad transfer developed at a school in the ME

[cole256 17,039]

I don't see how peopleare still arguing with members of the Gus fantastic five when you have members of the team from EVERY position besides running back (which is known for requiring little preparation besides fundamentals) literally say out of their mouths that they aren't prepared at all for the pro game......NFL people find out who you call at 2 in the morning 2 years ago.....you don't think a reputation was built from that?

[Dual-Threat Rigby 8,641]

20 hours ago, AUght2win said:

G.Rob played 2 seasons of college ball and left as a redshirt sophomore. He was a highly touted recruit with freaky talent. That didn't just suddenly appear when Gus arrived. What, specifically, did Gus do with G.Rob that he deserves credit for him over Chizik? 

If you want to make an argument for system fit, then you'll have to also be open to giving credit to Harsin after Tank plays 2 seasons in a much better pro-style attack. 

IMO, like Tank for Harsin, Malzahn inherited a highly talented dude that naturally matured into the mauler that went 2nd overall.

So a 4 star OLmen, with no further development ends up being a top 2 draftee. That “freaky talent” was enough to get him drafted...in the first two spots. 
He was at Auburn for three seasons, you still exist and go through the development process as a redshirt, you do know that right? 
Shoutouts to the two seasons he had before 2013 (one of which being in Gus’s offensive scheme, which means TWO of his THREE seasons were in Gus’s scheme), but he had one season that got him drafted as a first round. Much like everyone else on that OL, there wasn’t much of note he did in 2012...you’re welcome to go back and look for something to the contrary! 
 

You can also take it from the guy’s own mouth who helped him become the draft prospect he ended up being (an OL coach hired by...Gus...in 2013...): https://auburntigers.com/news/2014/1/3/auburn_s_greg_robinson_no_ordinary_offensive_tackle.aspx

 

Tank isn’t somebody that needed progression or a different scheme to be a potential first round pick. He looked like that playing behind a pretty meh run blocking OL and a bad QB. As long as he didn’t get hurt again, he could’ve bided his time and played under ANYONE and been a first rounder. You’re arguing some high school hype versus a guy who looked transcendent from day one 😂 if you want to count him as a Harsin draftee, then sure, but pretending as if he’ll make him into some substantially better player than Gus did...cmon now lol 
 

Edited May 2, 2021 by Dual-Threat Rigby

[McLoofus 35,182]

It's always interesting to me when people compare recent results to Auburn's historical averages as though we shouldn't aspire to be a better program. 

When people used to argue against firing Gus because they'd invented some sort of statistical probability in their heads that we would get worse, I would point out that every coach going back 40 years had produced a national championship-caliber season, and the only one of them whose resume even remotely justified the hire was Tuberville. 

The flip side of that is that none of them except Dye built anything sustainable. Bowden obviously wasn't built to run the program long term. Tuberville enjoyed a nice run in the mid-aughts and then promptly got humiliated out of the league by saban. Chizik oversaw the most spectacular and sudden rise and fall in CFB history. And Gus... well, actually, he did build something sustainable after his first season. Sustainable, abject mediocrity. 

So what's the point? Each of the last 5 coaches proved that you can and should win big at Auburn. Which means that we can and should expect to win big at Auburn. If each of them was able to do it once or twice, then a qualified coach should be able to do it more than once or twice. We shouldn't settled for less just because "that's how it's always been."

And that's not me being a delusional Arkansas fan just because of a couple good Petrino years. We've consistently reached higher heights with, again, multiple guys who had no business even coaching in this league.

Speaking of this league, each one of them did it while playing against brutal SEC and/or non-con schedules. I need not mention Dye's '83 schedule. Bowden beat peak Spurrier Florida twice. Tubs beat 3 top-10 SEC teams in '04. Chizik and Malzahn handled saban-era bama, and Malzahn had a team that could and  probably should have beaten #1 Clemson twice in addition to top-10 Washington and Oregon.

We're right there and we've *been* right there and we should 100% expect to take that next step with Harsin. And if he doesn't take it, find the right guy. Florida wasn't crap before Spurrier. LSU wasn't crap before saban. Our basketball team wasn't crap before Pearl. Demand better.

TL;DR Just because Gus matched our historical averages doesn't mean he was good enough.

[augolf1716 21,096]

27 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

It's always interesting to me when people compare recent results to Auburn's historical averages as though we shouldn't aspire to be a better program. 

When people used to argue against firing Gus because they'd invented some sort of statistical probability in their heads that we would get worse, I would point out that every coach going back 40 years had produced a national championship-caliber season, and the only one of them whose resume even remotely justified the hire was Tuberville. 

The flip side of that is that none of them except Dye built anything sustainable. Bowden obviously wasn't built to run the program long term. Tuberville enjoyed a nice run in the mid-aughts and then promptly got humiliated out of the league by saban. Chizik oversaw the most spectacular and sudden rise and fall in CFB history. And Gus... well, actually, he did build something sustainable after his first season. Sustainable, abject mediocrity. 

So what's the point? Each of the last 5 coaches proved that you can and should win big at Auburn. Which means that we can and should expect to win big at Auburn. If each of them was able to do it once or twice, then a qualified coach should be able to do it more than once or twice. We shouldn't settled for less just because "that's how it's always been."

And that's not me being a delusional Arkansas fan just because of a couple good Petrino years. We've consistently reached higher heights with, again, multiple guys who had no business even coaching in this league.

Speaking of this league, each one of them did it while playing against brutal SEC and/or non-con schedules. I need not mention Dye's '83 schedule. Bowden beat peak Spurrier Florida twice. Tubs beat 3 top-10 SEC teams in '04. Chizik and Malzahn handled saban-era bama, and Malzahn had a team that could and  probably should have beaten #1 Clemson twice in addition to top-10 Washington and Oregon.

We're right there and we've *been* right there and we should 100% expect to take that next step with Harsin. And if he doesn't take it, find the right guy. Florida wasn't crap before Spurrier. LSU wasn't crap before saban. Our basketball team wasn't crap before Pearl. Demand better.

TL;DR Just because Gus matched our historical averages doesn't mean he was good enough.

How many energy drinks have you had this morning..................

[McLoofus 35,182]

15 minutes ago, augolf1716 said:

How many energy drinks have you had this morning..................

HOW MUCH COFFEE IS TOO MUCH COFFEE IS FOUR CUPS TOO MUCH COFFEE HI HAPPY MONDAY GOLF