Sure looking like it was a bad move for Seth to leave early

[cole256 17,043]

6 minutes ago, toddc said:

I think Bo has been criticized more than any players in recent memory and the ones pumping him up are the minority on the boards. I agree SW was one of the best players on the team but it did seem like he would turn it up a notch when he wanted to. That’s what bothers me about him is he had all the tools but didn’t bring it on every play. Breaks my heart as a fan that I won’t get to see him dominate at Auburn this season like I believe he would have. I think he’s a steal at the draft going in the sixth round!

I have to disagree with that, you have on this board 2 or 4 that will come and say he absolutely sucks. You have about ten like me who just say what they see and I was alone most of the time those numbers grew after acouple of years then you have everybody come in over reacting that will shut the convo down causing other threads about the convo because they literally try to coddle Bo for whatever reason. But that's another discussion.

I just literally had arguments with the very same people and I'm pointing out the hypocrisy of the tropes that exist and is still carried on today....

[toddc 13,194]

10 minutes ago, cole256 said:

I have to disagree with that, you have on this board 2 or 4 that will come and say he absolutely sucks. You have about ten like me who just say what they see and I was alone most of the time those numbers grew after acouple of years then you have everybody come in over reacting that will shut the convo down causing other threads about the convo because they literally try to coddle Bo for whatever reason. But that's another discussion.

I just literally had arguments with the very same people and I'm pointing out the hypocrisy of the tropes that exist and is still carried on today....

I said boards, meaning several different places, including the Auburn Facebook page, but you might be right about this board in particular. 

[ScotsAU 1,319]

A lot of folks seem to think his demeanor on the field made him fall. I would’ve guessed it was inconsistency. He’s make a miraculous catch on one play, then drop a pass that hit him in the hands on the next. If you are being promoted as a “possession” guy like he was, you have to show more consistency. 
Surprised he fell below Schwartz though. Small frame, a history of injuries, and didn’t show a lot of diversity in skill set. Those burner type guys usually fall to the 6-7 round. Versus guys like Williams that show a bit of inconsistency usually fall in rounds 4-5.

Edited May 3, 2021 by ScotsAU

[Barnacle 9,064]

1 hour ago, toddc said:

I said boards, meaning several different places, including the Auburn Facebook page, but you might be right about this board in particular. 

Bo is easily the most praised AND criticized player on the team, but he's the QB and it just comes with the territory. 

[WDE_OxPx_2010 5,295]

38 minutes ago, ScotsAU said:

A lot of folks seem to think his demeanor on the field made him fall. I would’ve guessed it was inconsistency. He’s make a miraculous catch on one play, then drop a pass that hit him in the hands on the next. If you are being promoted as a “possession” guy like he was, you have to show more consistency. 
Surprised he fell below Schwartz though. Small frame, a history of injuries, and didn’t show a lot of diversity in skill set. Those burner type guys usually fall to the 6-7 round. Versus guys like Williams that show a bit of inconsistency usually fall in rounds 4-5.

I was honestly shocked to see AS projected AND drafted as highly as he was. However, he's quite literally one of the fastest guys on the planet right now. That does cure a lot of ills.

SW didn't have that sort of skill set to fall back on.

[augolf1716 21,103]

 

[McLoofus 35,182]

14 hours ago, WDE_OxPx_2010 said:

there is ample evidence to suggest that he could have played this decision better.

Nah, not really. There's optimism being mistaken for knowledge. 

If it really is perceived effort issues and not talent that pushed Seth down in the draft, then there's no reason to believe those issues would have been addressed with another year surrounded by the same teammates. It's bizarre to me that people are making that assumption. To me, it's the opposite of logical.

Not only are people making assumptions about Harsin's offense, but they're making assumptions about his personality. How much time do we think he's going to spend trying to correct one kid's attitude when he's got guys like Capers, Canion, Hudson and Jet Johnson on deck? In this first season dedicated to establishing his culture at Auburn? Maybe some of these guys in the transfer portal could give an informed opinion on that?

Also, I'll ask again that folks check Harsin's history with getting receivers drafted. Yes, he was at Boise and he's likely to have better luck with the talent to which he's availed himself at Auburn, but nobody's basing their assumption on track record. Even Gus could have had 1,000 yard receivers that got drafted in the bottom rounds in the Mountain West. 

Furthermore, we've spent most of this offseason talking about how many more balls will be going to the TEs and maybe even RBs. Where are those going to come from? 

And none of this is even getting into the WR talent in this year's draft vs next year, what is going on in Seth's personal life, etc. It's just amazing that people can see two or three data points and assume the major life decisions that a stranger* should make. 

*Apologies to any friends of Seth who are familiar with his personal circumstances and who have an informed opinion on his decision. 

[Timbeaux38 299]

I think the Arkansas Game Helped Schwartz' stock immensely last year- He caught 10 balls in that game.

[DAG 33,976]

14 hours ago, WDE_OxPx_2010 said:

I was honestly shocked to see AS projected AND drafted as highly as he was. However, he's quite literally one of the fastest guys on the planet right now. That does cure a lot of ills.

SW didn't have that sort of skill set to fall back on.

Yep, world class speed will get you in the door no matter what. Ask Jonathan Jones, who is now a two time Super Bowl champion and has been on an active roster since 2016. 

BTW: Jones has made some good money working hard and obtaining a roster spot as UDFA. 

There seems to be a lot of arguing in here, but for whatever reason Seth, as talent as he is, had been seen as a day 3 guy by scouts. He has so much talent. If he puts it all together, he can make a great living. Already has accomplished what 99 percent of the population could not dream to do. 

Edited May 4, 2021 by DAG

[ScotsAU 1,319]

1 hour ago, DAG said:

Yep, world class speed will get you in the door no matter what. Ask Jonathan Jones, who is now a two time Super Bowl champion and has been on an active roster since 2016. 

BTW: Jones has made some good money working hard and obtaining a roster spot as UDFA. 

There seems to be a lot of arguing in here, but for whatever reason Seth, as talent as he is, had been seen as a day 3 guy by scouts. He has so much talent. If he puts it all together, he can make a great living. Already has accomplished what 99 percent of the population could not dream to do. 

A few major differences between Jones and Schwartz though. 1. Jones is a defensive player. 2. Jones was a solid player in his last year at Auburn. It wasn’t just speed that got him on a roster. 3. He went undrafted, and was signed as a udfa as you stated above. That’s more typical of what you see with fast guys that didn’t show out in college. 
For a wide receiver, you usually have to show more than that to go in earlier rounds. It was an abnormal pick given that Schwartz seemed to struggle with route running at Auburn. I agree with you on Seth though. If he can just play a little less sloppy and get a little more consistent, he could end up being a steal in the late rounds. 

Edited May 4, 2021 by ScotsAU

[cole256 17,043]

So if he was looked at as a day 3 pick did he really drop? The guy played for a coach that didn't run an offense that showcased ANY traits needed to be viewed as a high pick, he had an inconsistent QB that literally couldn't throw a downfield pass orzip passes in tight spaces. And while a talented athlete nothing that draws attention to separate him from all of the other guys...

But the reason he was viewed as a day 3 guy is his attitude lol....👌🏾 if he had played for Florida or Texas a&m or LSU he would've been graded higher easy

[DAG 33,976]

41 minutes ago, cole256 said:

So if he was looked at as a day 3 pick did he really drop? The guy played for a coach that didn't run an offense that showcased ANY traits needed to be viewed as a high pick, he had an inconsistent QB that literally couldn't throw a downfield pass orzip passes in tight spaces. And while a talented athlete nothing that draws attention to separate him from all of the other guys...

But the reason he was viewed as a day 3 guy is his attitude lol....👌🏾 if he had played for Florida or Texas a&m or LSU he would've been graded higher easy

The problem is his talent did not match day 3 draft pick.  AS , who had the same QB, same ball coach , same style of play found a team who liked his ability and drafted him much higher. We can sit here all day and blame the QB and everything else under the sky but eventually there needs to be some sort of accountability. I mean are we really blaming Bo Nix for Seth dropping down to the sixth round? Coaches and scouts aren’t that dumb. The can decipher talent when they see it , especially in individual drills and pre-work outs. So either it’s Bo nix fault or this guy was not as talented as we are making it out to be. In actuality it doesn’t have to be that black and white. It can actually be a little bit of everything mentioned above. 

[DAG 33,976]

1 hour ago, ScotsAU said:

A few major differences between Jones and Schwartz though. 1. Jones is a defensive player. 2. Jones was a solid player in his last year at Auburn. It wasn’t just speed that got him on a roster. 3. He went undrafted, and was signed as a udfa as you stated above. That’s more typical of what you see with fast guys that didn’t show out in college. 
For a wide receiver, you usually have to show more than that to go in earlier rounds. It was an abnormal pick given that Schwartz seemed to struggle with route running at Auburn. I agree with you on Seth though. If he can just play a little less sloppy and get a little more consistent, he could end up being a steal in the late rounds. 

I agree with all of this. My whole point is you can’t teach all world speed. That will get you a look no matter what. The talent level still has to be there . 

[DAG 33,976]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/247sports.com/college/auburn/Article/seth-williams-nfl-draft-auburn-tigers-football-denver-broncos-2021-wide-receivers-kary-vincent-marquiss-spencer-164957242/Amp/
 

some of Seth’s thoughts of sliding down to the sixth round. 

[abw0004 10,110]

50 minutes ago, cole256 said:

So if he was looked at as a day 3 pick did he really drop? The guy played for a coach that didn't run an offense that showcased ANY traits needed to be viewed as a high pick, he had an inconsistent QB that literally couldn't throw a downfield pass orzip passes in tight spaces. And while a talented athlete nothing that draws attention to separate him from all of the other guys...

But the reason he was viewed as a day 3 guy is his attitude lol....👌🏾 if he had played for Florida or Texas a&m or LSU he would've been graded higher easy

I think what you may be seeing Cole isn't a hatred for Seth, or a "You should have tried harder" mentality from the fans.  I think some of the fans are frustrated because of what we know he could have achieved and gotten drafted higher.  We hope he turns out to be a story like Antonio Brown (purely speaking of his play on the field, not his current personal life) instead of a story like Josh Gordon in the NFL.  I/we want him to succeed in the NFL.  I think he left a lot on the table at Auburn and could offer much more in the NFL.  I do hope he becomes elite in the NFL and is able to look back at his time at Auburn fondly.  I would love to see him come back and visit for games in Jordan-Hare.

[cole256 17,043]

2 minutes ago, DAG said:

The problem is his talent did not match day 3 draft pick.  AS , who had the same QB, same ball coach , same style of play found a team who liked his ability and drafted him much higher. We can sit here all day and blame the QB and everything else under the sky but eventually there needs to be some sort of accountability. I mean are we really blaming Bo Nix for Seth dropping down to the sixth round? Coaches and scouts aren’t that dumb. The can decipher talent when they see it , especially in individual drills and pre-work outs. So either it’s Bo nix fault or this guy was not as talented as we are making it out to be. In actuality it doesn’t have to be that black and white. It can actually be a little bit of everything mentioned above. 

The AS stuff doesn't compare at all, he's a speed guy, he could literally not play this year you run a 4.2 you'll get achance. Actually running that and still getting picked so low speaks volumes.

And my point was just that. He didn't drop. He went where he was predicted And it's much more on Gus than Bo but when your qb just throw jump balls yes that will absolutely effect you as a wr. I'm sure we over hype him as well. But I'm certain it's not he put out a first round talent tape but it dropped to the 6 th because of his attitude, that's not realistic at all.

[DAG 33,976]

1 minute ago, cole256 said:

The AS stuff doesn't compare at all, he's a speed guy, he could literally not play this year you run a 4.2 you'll get achance. Actually running that and still getting picked so low speaks volumes.

And my point was just that. He didn't drop. He went where he was predicted And it's much more on Gus than Bo but when your qb just throw jump balls yes that will absolutely effect you as a wr. I'm sure we over hype him as well. But I'm certain it's not he put out a first round talent tape but it dropped to the 6 th because of his attitude, that's not realistic at all.

Yes you will get a chance but getting a chance and being drafted in the third round are two arguably different things. We see speed guys like that all the time who get a chance but teams hardly ever jump out the window like that for them unless they feel they are going to be rotational guys. 
 

So I am going to ask you again, why do you think he dropped down to the sixth? If we are saying because of the coaching staff and Bo for majority of the reason , I am definitely going to have to disagree. Like I said, NFL coaches and scout know how to decipher if an offense is problematic and if it is the QB causing most of the issues. I do not believe that would simply cause a player of this stature to just drop down to the sixth role. We see based on Seth’s perception he was surprised as hell about that as well. 
 

And if he is a day 3 guy and he got drafted as a day 3 guy then what is the issue? Honestly it shouldn’t be this much conflict about this situation lol. The guy is Uber talented. We all including Seth were surprised he dropped to the third day. Apparently scouts thought he was a third day guy from the get go so maybe it was more of the orange and blue glasses then anything else.

[Randman5000 4,226]

On 5/3/2021 at 4:48 AM, cole256 said:

I've met very few athletes who think going up and high pointing balls with one hand even at times is nothing....I mean if it's just once I know people can say well that's luck but if you can literally consistently dominate I've never seen it scoffed off. Like I've never seen people say Calvin Johnson is just tall. 

 

Why do you think he fell to the 6th round and had other WRs drafted ahead of him?

[abw0004 10,110]

13 minutes ago, cole256 said:

And my point was just that. He didn't drop. He went where he was predicted And it's much more on Gus than Bo but when your qb just throw jump balls yes that will absolutely effect you as a wr. I'm sure we over hype him as well. But I'm certain it's not he put out a first round talent tape but it dropped to the 6 th because of his attitude, that's not realistic at all.

@DAG correct me if I am wrong but I think you may have misinterpreted what DAG said.  I think experts and scouts had him pegged as a day 3 guy due to their perceived issues stated in the the thread.  That he dropped from what he could be on talent and size alone.  I looked up some articles written in early 2020 and many had him as a second round guy.

"While he could fall victim to a deep positional group, Williams should hear his name called in the second round of the 2021 NFL Draft. Williams, the reliable pass-catcher, is destined to lineup at the “X” position at the next level and should be able to contribute in the red zone immediately."  - Pro Football Network  (August 18, 2020)

Edited May 4, 2021 by abw0004

[DAG 33,976]

1 minute ago, abw0004 said:

@DAG correct me if I am wrong but I think you may have misinterpreted what DAG said.  I think experts and scouts had him pegged as a day 3 guy due to their perceived issues stated in the the thread.  That he dropped from what he could be on talent and size alone.  I looked up some articles written in early 2020 and many had him as a second round guy.

"While he could fall victim to a deep positional group, Williams should hear his name called in the second round of the 2021 NFL Draft. Williams, the reliable pass-catcher, is destined to lineup at the “X” position at the next level and should be able to contribute in the red zone immediately."  - Pro Football Network

Correct . He wasn’t always considered a day 3 guy. However, due to some of the concerns noted he begin to slide. That’s where I am at with it. Dude was super talented that there is no way he should’ve dropped to day 3 based on talent alone. Otherwise , if he was always pegged a day 3 guy then we all severely overrated him. 

[DAG 33,976]

Also if it is solely or majority based on coach , scheme and QB play then how did someone like Josh Palmer get drafted in the third? 
 

While he was hurt by inconsistent quarterbacking during his time at Tennessee, the production totals are still disappointing. However, the more tape you watch of Palmer, the more you like him. He has size, clearly works on refining his route-running and has a good understanding of how to help himself with contested catches. While he doesn't appear to have great long speed, he did beat future NFL cornerbacks at Georgia (DJ Daniel) and Alabama (Patrick Surtain Jr.) down the field for scores. He's an instinctive pass catcher on all three levels with above-average ball skills, but beating press and finding separation will be his toughest challenges in the NFL. The limited production is a concern, but he appears to 

Edited May 4, 2021 by DAG

[cole256 17,043]

2 minutes ago, DAG said:

Yes you will get a chance but getting a chance and being drafted in the third round are two arguably different things. We see speed guys like that all the time who get a chance but teams hardly ever jump out the window like that for them unless they feel they are going to be rotational guys. 
 

So I am going to ask you again, why do you think he dropped down to the sixth? If we are saying because of the coaching staff and Bo for majority of the reason , I am definitely going to have to disagree. Like I said, NFL coaches and scout know how to decipher if an offense is problematic and if it is the QB causing most of the issues. I do not believe that would simply cause a player of this stature to just drop down to the sixth role. We see based on Seth’s perception he was surprised as hell about that as well. 
 

And if he is a day 3 guy and he got drafted as a day 3 guy then what is the issue? Honestly it shouldn’t be this much conflict about this situation lol. The guy is Uber talented. We all including Seth were surprised he dropped to the third day. Apparently scouts thought he was a third day guy from the get go so maybe it was more of the orange and blue glasses then anything else.

I feel like I explained it and you'll just have to disagree. And that's fine but it's humorous you'll go with it's a bad attitude and all that other stuff when there's literally no evidence but a bunch of people on a board that can't be accurate on a draft and says things like Bo is better than Mac Jones he'd bebetter with their o line and apparently thinks Seth was Randy Moss.

I also disagree about the fast guys all the time stuff. Where? All I see is you run a 4.2 you're drafted in the first 2 rounds.

All Seth did on the field that would shine on tape in a scouts mind is kill guys in the redzone and show up in big time situations He couldn't put up these super highlights downfield because the qbcan't throw downfield, he couldn't show his route running and footwork because we had a lollipop offense. And on top of that he had a few drops and stuff like that. 

He actually ran better than I thought but it wasn't anything to make you think who's that? He wasn't all sec because he didn't have the stats and he couldn't show catching the ball in traffic and stuff like that because the qb isn't throwing into any tight spots. 

He didn't get to show versatility because once again we have the offense where this guy does this and you do that.

I don't know why on earth some of you think he'd be drafted high. 

You're right it shouldn't be this much conflict, this guy is one of the few that produced, was frustrated with losing, and would call out a guy on the field because it wasn't acceptable. He should be celebrated, but we want the little short guy that makes 2 catches every now and again and wasn't recruited but isn't good......he's the guy to love I guess.

[cole256 17,043]

17 minutes ago, abw0004 said:

@DAG correct me if I am wrong but I think you may have misinterpreted what DAG said.  I think experts and scouts had him pegged as a day 3 guy due to their perceived issues stated in the the thread.  That he dropped from what he could be on talent and size alone.  I looked up some articles written in early 2020 and many had him as a second round guy.

"While he could fall victim to a deep positional group, Williams should hear his name called in the second round of the 2021 NFL Draft. Williams, the reliable pass-catcher, is destined to lineup at the “X” position at the next level and should be able to contribute in the red zone immediately."  - Pro Football Network  (August 18, 2020)

That's one article in August before the season. Many people absolutely did not have him rated high. That's false. And no I'm not mistaken or confused so correct anybody else besides me because you will get confused and I already know you're not going to admit it when you're not right.

I know exactly what I'm saying about this particular subject he dropped because we lost, he didn't put up numbers and he didn't have film of doing anything different or better

Edited May 4, 2021 by cole256

[DAG 33,976]

Just now, cole256 said:

I feel like I explained it and you'll just have to disagree. And that's fine but it's humorous you'll go with it's a bad attitude and all that other stuff when there's literally no evidence but a bunch of people on a board that can't be accurate on a draft and says things like Bo is better than Mac Jones he'd bebetter with their o line and apparently thinks Seth was Randy Moss.

I also disagree about the fast guys all the time stuff. Where? All I see is you run a 4.2 you're drafted in the first 2 rounds.

All Seth did on the field that would shine on tape in a scouts mind is kill guys in the redzone and show up in big time situations He couldn't put up these super highlights downfield because the qbcan't throw downfield, he couldn't show his route running and footwork because we had a lollipop offense. And on top of that he had a few drops and stuff like that. 

He actually ran better than I thought but it wasn't anything to make you think who's that? He wasn't all sec because he didn't have the stats and he couldn't show catching the ball in traffic and stuff like that because the qb isn't throwing into any tight spots. 

He didn't get to show versatility because once again we have the offense where this guy does this and you do that.

I don't know why on earth some of you think he'd be drafted high. 

You're right it shouldn't be this much conflict, this guy is one of the few that produced, was frustrated with losing, and would call out a guy on the field because it wasn't acceptable. He should be celebrated, but we want the little short guy that makes 2 catches every now and again and wasn't recruited but isn't good......he's the guy to love I guess.

So if it is Bo fault than how did the guy above get drafted in the third? Again, I don’t know why you are making this a Bo vs Seth thing. Or why yoU are even making it a hating thing ? If anything the critical comments come from fans who want this dude to succeed. We know how great he is and want him to succeed. Majority of us that is. I feel like coaches and scouts are much more smarter than that then to let such a thing cause a guy to drop.

Also running a 4.2 is not a clear cut first two round pick. AS is a decorated track runner and even he wasn’t drafted in the first two rounds but that is not here nor there.

[abw0004 10,110]

1 minute ago, cole256 said:

That's one article in August before the season. Many people absolutely did not have him rated high. That's false. And no I'm not mistaken or confused so correct anybody else besides me because you will get confused and I already know you're not going to admit it when you're not right.

I know exactly what I'm saying about this particular subject

What?  I admit all of the time when I am wrong.  In this case, I am just trying to help you out on this topic because I can tell you are feeling ganged up on.  So I am trying to build a bridge between both sides because I have respect for both you and DAG.  In the end, we all want Seth to succeed.  If you want I can post more articles, I just thought one article would be enough to get the point across.