current state of baseball scholarships

[boomstick 1,315]

 

[steeleagle 2,945]

thanks for sharing. I hadn't seen this, and growing up loving baseball in a small town outside of Pittsburgh, I hate that college baseball can't do what those other scholarship sports provide. 

And 1 part of the video talks about travel ball. I understand how it came about, but I read an article recently, talking about the loss of the ballpark experience for youth, with parents and players coming to theur local ballpark, practicing, playing, watching and being a part of that community w/ concession stand duty, and eating a hotdog or hamburger. Travel ball has taken that away. Now it's traveling to different towns, playing all day and night, and then driving home or if you travel far, having to stay in hotel rooms. Not the same....

 

[Mikey 16,550]

I could write a long list or a short book about what's wrong with travel ball. In short, it's bad for the local leagues, players and communities. I know people who have spent enough money on travel ball to pay their kid's way through college and the kid still didn't get a college scholarship. Softball is just as bad.

[RHN1975 302]

9 minutes ago, Mikey said:

I could write a long list or a short book about what's wrong with travel ball. In short, it's bad for the local leagues, players and communities. I know people who have spent enough money on travel ball to pay their kid's way through college and the kid still didn't get a college scholarship. Softball is just as bad.

It only takes a couple of words to tell whats wrong with travel ball. It's adults. Adults running tourney's trying to make money. Adults paying coaches to come to their showcases to recruit so now players think they have to play in said showcases. Adults taking cash hand over fist for lessons/coaching. Adults chasing their dreams through their children.

I can't complain too much since I was in the middle of it. My daughter has played travel since her first year of 8U. She was simply better than all of the kids at our park and after being asked to help out a friends travel team that had two girls out sick she fell in love with it. She went from #1 player in our park to #9 on one team of girls a year older than her. She enjoyed the competition and friendships built sitting under the tent at tourneys. Her ability level sky rocketed and she fell in love with the game. Had she stayed at the park I think she would have been bored after a couple of years. 

Now on the subject at hand. This could only be addressed by the NCAA. I know from my daughter's recruitment she was eligible to recieve academic money in addtion to atheltic money. She was told not to bother applying for a lot of competitve scholarships at different schools because she couldn't accept them anyway. I guess the selection process could be deemed unfair or could be abused to help athletes. She had to turn down a leadership scholarship to the school of her choice that would have given us a total of 100% paid. She has 100% tuition, books, and fees covered but being able to cover the dorms would have been nice. 

 

 

[steeleagle 2,945]

3 minutes ago, RHN1975 said:

It only takes a couple of words to tell whats wrong with travel ball. It's adults. Adults running tourney's trying to make money. Adults paying coaches to come to their showcases to recruit so now players think they have to play in said showcases. Adults taking cash hand over fist for lessons/coaching. Adults chasing their dreams through their children.

I can't complain too much since I was in the middle of it. My daughter has played travel since her first year of 8U. She was simply better than all of the kids at our park and after being asked to help out a friends travel team that had two girls out sick she fell in love with it. She went from #1 player in our park to #9 on one team of girls a year older than her. She enjoyed the competition and friendships built sitting under the tent at tourneys. Her ability level sky rocketed and she fell in love with the game. Had she stayed at the park I think she would have been bored after a couple of years. 

Now on the subject at hand. This could only be addressed by the NCAA. I know from my daughter's recruitment she was eligible to recieve academic money in addtion to atheltic money. She was told not to bother applying for a lot of competitve scholarships at different schools because she couldn't accept them anyway. I guess the selection process could be deemed unfair or could be abused to help athletes. She had to turn down a leadership scholarship to the school of her choice that would have given us a total of 100% paid. She has 100% tuition, books, and fees covered but being able to cover the dorms would have been nice. 

 

 

Good points. 

Luckily, my kids got to play ballpark ball, because travel ball was just getting started when my kids finished rec ball. 

I agree that travel has hurt the ball park rec ball, as I have said, but it does allow players who have upper level ability to play, compete and get better playing against top level pitchers and other players. My son would have benefited more, bc he was a top level pitcher in rec ball, but he found out when he made the HS team as a 9th grader that he lacked a lot of better competition, and struggled at first. I had to get him pvt lessons to improve him as a left handed pitcher and a hitter, which helped in his later years in HS. He had offers to small colleges, but he was going to need arm surgery to go farther and he didn't want it. He wanted to go to Auburn bad, and that made the decision to hang it up easier. 

But it's amazing after watching this video, how sports like baseball, which was said it was the 2nd most profitable sport behind basketball, and it is still in the category of 'equivalency' sport. 

I am confused that the coaches and athletic administrators don't have enough clout to improve the scholarship issue with sports like baseball. And ofc, our state continues to flounder when it comes to bringing in a lottery or casinos, that could provide some educational money to offset the 11.7 scholarship limit. 

[boomstick 1,315]

1 hour ago, steeleagle said:

Good points. 

Luckily, my kids got to play ballpark ball, because travel ball was just getting started when my kids finished rec ball. 

I agree that travel has hurt the ball park rec ball, as I have said, but it does allow players who have upper level ability to play, compete and get better playing against top level pitchers and other players. My son would have benefited more, bc he was a top level pitcher in rec ball, but he found out when he made the HS team as a 9th grader that he lacked a lot of better competition, and struggled at first. I had to get him pvt lessons to improve him as a left handed pitcher and a hitter, which helped in his later years in HS. He had offers to small colleges, but he was going to need arm surgery to go farther and he didn't want it. He wanted to go to Auburn bad, and that made the decision to hang it up easier. 

But it's amazing after watching this video, how sports like baseball, which was said it was the 2nd most profitable sport behind basketball, and it is still in the category of 'equivalency' sport. 

I am confused that the coaches and athletic administrators don't have enough clout to improve the scholarship issue with sports like baseball. And ofc, our state continues to flounder when it comes to bringing in a lottery or casinos, that could provide some educational money to offset the 11.7 scholarship limit. 

I think part of the issue with baseball remaining an equivalency sport is that there are so many schools that couldn't afford to move it out to a head count sport. Not to mention the increase in money for the baseball scholarships, but it would also come with an equal increase of scholarship money for the women's side too. It's similar to why the third paid assistant legislation didn't pass. Most schools simply couldn't afford it, and they didn't want to pass something that clearly gave the advantaged more advantage.

Like the video says, Title IX is a great thing, and I would never advocate for it going away. But I do think it's time to modify how it's applied, and it's time for the NCAA address how to more equally treat all of its student athletes and not just those that make money for them or their universities.

[RHN1975 302]

I don't think all of the responsiblity should fall on the schools to pay for the scholarships. The NCAA could definitely share more revenue downstream.

 

How would softball revenues look had the NCAA not sold the sport down the river because of basketball? Giving away commercial spots to sponsors of March Madness during the WCWS is ridiculous. This took away revenue from one of the most watched NCAA events. 

[steeleagle 2,945]

3 hours ago, RHN1975 said:

I don't think all of the responsiblity should fall on the schools to pay for the scholarships. The NCAA could definitely share more revenue downstream.

 

How would softball revenues look had the NCAA not sold the sport down the river because of basketball? Giving away commercial spots to sponsors of March Madness during the WCWS is ridiculous. This took away revenue from one of the most watched NCAA events. 

I Agree. Even in the video. the NCAA gets most of its revenue from 2 sources. NCAA Basketball tournament and baseball CWS. So, it should do something to help baseball and also the other sports that include women. 

[Tigerbelle 5,299]

The NCAA is a corrupt institution charged with keeping corruption and unfair advantage away from student athletes. The irony is profound. Expecting them to initiate anything to improve college sports in any real capacity will never happen as long as Emmert is in charge. He has no ethics and he is incapable of making decisions that are unbiased and in the best interests of college sports and student athletes across the board. Under his tenure the NCAA has become a joke. Emmert is old and hopefully he will retire soon. There needs to be a major house-cleaning from the top down. Emmert's co-conspirators need to be booted out the door when he leaves. Then maybe new leadership will make some real improvements. Times have changed. Colleges and student athletes today face different challenges that the NCAA needs to address. 

[steeleagle 2,945]

21 hours ago, Tigerbelle said:

The NCAA is a corrupt institution charged with keeping corruption and unfair advantage away from student athletes. The irony is profound. Expecting them to initiate anything to improve college sports in any real capacity will never happen as long as Emmert is in charge. He has no ethics and he is incapable of making decisions that are unbiased and in the best interests of college sports and student athletes across the board. Under his tenure the NCAA has become a joke. Emmert is old and hopefully he will retire soon. There needs to be a major house-cleaning from the top down. Emmert's co-conspirators need to be booted out the door when he leaves. Then maybe new leadership will make some real improvements. Times have changed. Colleges and student athletes today face different challenges that the NCAA needs to address. 

Agree. After watching this video, NCAA needs someone progressive that want's to  upgrade their old ways of doing things, and putting all college sports on more equitable footing. 

As much money as the NCAA and it's members make, something needs to be done to spread the wealth around...

[gulftiger66 166]

On 5/26/2021 at 8:39 AM, Mikey said:

I could write a long list or a short book about what's wrong with travel ball. In short, it's bad for the local leagues, players and communities. I know people who have spent enough money on travel ball to pay their kid's way through college and the kid still didn't get a college scholarship. Softball is just as bad.

Think about this:  One reason that the number of African-American who go on to play college baseball is lower is because of travel ball. Travel ball is very expensive compared to football or basketball for high school kids. Therefore, only the more affluent families can afford to support their kids playing travel ball.  Take a look at some of the junior colleges that are predominantly African-American. The majority of their baseball team is usually Caucasian, not so for their football and basketball teams. I haven’t done an in-depth study but there seems to be something to this.  And, travel baseball (or softball) appears to be more fun for the parents too.  

[AU_Canoe 230]

I have chatted with parents of collegiate softball players and they have often referenced "travel ball". Most of their stories had commonalities in that it's a huge investment of time and money to get their girls exposure and practice. With the travel ball rotation, I believe it's a 12 month engagement. To me, it almost sounded like a full time job of one of the parents and the commitment and sacrifice was huge. From my 30,000 ft view and perspective, it seemed that way. Through their chit-chat, travel ball appeared to be an industry in itself with little overarching governance. 

Edited September 14, 2021 by AU_Canoe

[warbiscuit 278]

Bohannon recently had several thoughts on NIL and 11.7. Somehow he doesn’t have a player with an NIL deal and managed to piss off the MSU, Arkansas and Vandy fanbases when his comments came out. 

 

[augolf1716 21,096]

22 hours ago, warbiscuit said:

Bohannon recently had several thoughts on NIL and 11.7. Somehow he doesn’t have a player with an NIL deal and managed to piss off the MSU, Arkansas and Vandy fanbases when his comments came out. 

 

Damn he was honest as hell......give him credit.....

[warbiscuit 278]

5 hours ago, augolf1716 said:

Damn he was honest as hell......give him credit.....

Sorry I wasn’t meaning to be harsh I agree with most of what he said but I wanted people to listen to what he said. Him pissing off the fanbases was more about how their twitters felt rather than how I felt. I’m just more shocked about the NIL deal and no one on the Alabama team has one. Though I understand that when their potential first round pick is out for the year NIL deals aren’t gonna come immediately for Prielipp.

[augolf1716 21,096]

24 minutes ago, warbiscuit said:

Sorry I wasn’t meaning to be harsh I agree with most of what he said but I wanted people to listen to what he said. Him pissing off the fanbases was more about how their twitters felt rather than how I felt. I’m just more shocked about the NIL deal and no one on the Alabama team has one. Though I understand that when their potential first round pick is out for the year NIL deals aren’t gonna come immediately for Prielipp.

I did take it as you being harsh but him being honest thanks for posting

[AuburnNTexas 7,128]

His point about schools like Arkansas giving in-state Tuition for a 3.2 is on the money as my oldest son who went to school in Allen, Tx. went to Arkansas as in-state with above a 3.2 and he was just a student not a ball player. As for no NIL for players at his school that is an issue each school has to deal with.  The school has to have some way to connect players especially in sports like baseball, soccer, softball with some way of getting NIL dollars.  Not directly from the school so in accordance with any weak laws NCAA has on NIL. 

[aubaseball 2,585]

I really think his point was that Alabama and Auburn are at a disadvantage.   This is even without NIL.   

[augolf1716 21,096]

On 9/23/2021 at 3:04 PM, warbiscuit said:

Sorry I wasn’t meaning to be harsh I agree with most of what he said but I wanted people to listen to what he said. Him pissing off the fanbases was more about how their twitters felt rather than how I felt. I’m just more shocked about the NIL deal and no one on the Alabama team has one. Though I understand that when their potential first round pick is out for the year NIL deals aren’t gonna come immediately for Prielipp.

Warbiscuit my apologies I meant to say I did NOT take you being harsh

[warbiscuit 278]

1 hour ago, aubaseball said:

I really think his point was that Alabama and Auburn are at a disadvantage.   This is even without NIL.   

TCU’s head coach complained he lost recruits to the SEC because some schools said the players could get $1000 a month. As for NIL I’ve seen a bunch of the Auburn team become Barstool Athletes and a few like Moore, Schorr, Shenker, Dichiara, and Ware have gotten deals with companies. I’ve been ok with the NIL thing for baseball in terms of it being a bit helpful to the 11.7 situation and after knowing about Auburn guys like Conor Davis who took student loans to play here. And apparently the Barstool Athlete thing must not be considered an NIL deal because I’ve seen some Alabama players get posted there on the Barstool Athlete account.

Edited September 24, 2021 by warbiscuit

[warbiscuit 278]

Kendall Rogers on Twitter: "At this point, raising NIL money is the most effective way by far to get college baseball players taken care of. Honestly, it might be our silver bullet long term." / Twitter

I have to say I think with how NIL deals are gone, this is a take I agree with Kendall Rogers on with the 11.7 and potentially the lottery disadvantage we have that NIL can mitigate or reduce significantly.

[PowerOfDixieland 3,225]

4 hours ago, warbiscuit said:

I have to say I think with how NIL deals are gone, this is a take I agree with Kendall Rogers on with the 11.7 and potentially the lottery disadvantage we have that NIL can mitigate or reduce significantly.

Any thoughts on what it would take to get a Buster Posey quality catcher behind the plate at Plainsman Park?  I have wrestled with the NIL proposition...I own a company that would not benefit in any way from working a deal, but because of my history and experience I'm still wondering.  

[warbiscuit 278]

1 hour ago, PowerOfDixieland said:

Any thoughts on what it would take to get a Buster Posey quality catcher behind the plate at Plainsman Park?  I have wrestled with the NIL proposition...I own a company that would not benefit in any way from working a deal, but because of my history and experience I'm still wondering.  

That's a task easier said than done, unfortunately. MLB teams have also placed a high importance in developing and drafting catchers, and catchers drafted in the first round have a higher tendency to be busts, or they get switched out to a different position due to their bats. And coaches(especially Butch), prefer their catchers to be more defensive minded and any catchers who have a higher offensive potential than defensive potential get switched, due to durability and developmental reasons, as catchers are known to take longer to develop. Also Buster Posey started out at FSU as a SS. Here's a link that describes the risks of drafting catchers high. 

1st-round catchers rarely pan out. The Pirates took Davis at No. 1 anyway | theScore.com

Butch has gotten a few highly touted high school catcher recruits during his time here with Steven Williams, Nate LaRue, Anthony Seigler and Ike Irish. Seigler then changed commitment to Florida before getting drafted in the first round in 2018. Williams was moved to the OF before what happened last year, but if it wasn't for COVID, I doubt he'd have spent time at C during his last year in 2020., and I can promise the first two falls for Williams, Butch gave him every opportunity to earn the starting catcher job. Last year the options weren't great defensively because Dyal couldn't be a full time C early on due to his recovery from Tommy John, so the best two options were LaRue and Williams, the latter of which hadn't caught in a meaningful game in a few years and only got catcher reps a couple weeks before the season started. LaRue's bat was more touted than his defense, and it's why Dyal is the front runner for the C job this year, especially given LaRue's defensive struggles receiving. And we saw last year how important catcher defense is when it came to passed balls that eventually led to go ahead runs for the opposing teams and why Butch got Jake Wyandt. Unfortunately in our staff we don't have anyone known for catcher development, and also Blake Logan left the team last year. Butch has been fine with guys like Blake Logan, Kyler Deese, Brett Wright and Matt Scheffler be our starting catcher and while Scheffler and Wright were above average offensively, you can still be a good team if you have a solidly defensive catcher with average offensive skills. It's also a better utilization of time and resources for Butch to have potential catchers with high offensive potential while their defensive skills aren't as good to switch somewhere else. And while Butch can and HAS gone after catchers who could be of "Buster Posey quality", he has to contend against MLB teams and the Vanderbilts and Arkansas's and MSU's of the world who can offer lottery/better history with their programs. Honestly I think Butch has been fine getting good HS catching recruits to commit to Auburn, it's the developmental part that's more an issue as Butch has been more reliant on JUCO catchers. The upcoming class Butch has a JUCO and HS catcher coming.

You can try to have your company offer an NIL to catching prospects you think are the next Buster Posey, but the odds of them being the next Buster Posey in college are generally lower than finding a pitcher that's the next Mize per se or the next Grier/Palacios/Bliss, so I wouldn't focus on giving the NIL to just catchers.

Edited January 3, 2022 by warbiscuit

[PowerOfDixieland 3,225]

19 hours ago, warbiscuit said:

That's a task easier said than done, unfortunately. MLB teams have also placed a high importance in developing and drafting catchers, and catchers drafted in the first round have a higher tendency to be busts, or they get switched out to a different position due to their bats. And coaches(especially Butch), prefer their catchers to be more defensive minded and any catchers who have a higher offensive potential than defensive potential get switched, due to durability and developmental reasons, as catchers are known to take longer to develop. Also Buster Posey started out at FSU as a SS. Here's a link that describes the risks of drafting catchers high. 

1st-round catchers rarely pan out. The Pirates took Davis at No. 1 anyway | theScore.com

Butch has gotten a few highly touted high school catcher recruits during his time here with Steven Williams, Nate LaRue, Anthony Seigler and Ike Irish. Seigler then changed commitment to Florida before getting drafted in the first round in 2018. Williams was moved to the OF before what happened last year, but if it wasn't for COVID, I doubt he'd have spent time at C during his last year in 2020., and I can promise the first two falls for Williams, Butch gave him every opportunity to earn the starting catcher job. Last year the options weren't great defensively because Dyal couldn't be a full time C early on due to his recovery from Tommy John, so the best two options were LaRue and Williams, the latter of which hadn't caught in a meaningful game in a few years and only got catcher reps a couple weeks before the season started. LaRue's bat was more touted than his defense, and it's why Dyal is the front runner for the C job this year, especially given LaRue's defensive struggles receiving. And we saw last year how important catcher defense is when it came to passed balls that eventually led to go ahead runs for the opposing teams and why Butch got Jake Wyandt. Unfortunately in our staff we don't have anyone known for catcher development, and also Blake Logan left the team last year. Butch has been fine with guys like Blake Logan, Kyler Deese, Brett Wright and Matt Scheffler be our starting catcher and while Scheffler and Wright were above average offensively, you can still be a good team if you have a solidly defensive catcher with average offensive skills. It's also a better utilization of time and resources for Butch to have potential catchers with high offensive potential while their defensive skills aren't as good to switch somewhere else. And while Butch can and HAS gone after catchers who could be of "Buster Posey quality", he has to contend against MLB teams and the Vanderbilts and Arkansas's and MSU's of the world who can offer lottery/better history with their programs. Honestly I think Butch has been fine getting good HS catching recruits to commit to Auburn, it's the developmental part that's more an issue as Butch has been more reliant on JUCO catchers. The upcoming class Butch has a JUCO and HS catcher coming.

You can try to have your company offer an NIL to catching prospects you think are the next Buster Posey, but the odds of them being the next Buster Posey in college are generally lower than finding a pitcher that's the next Mize per se or the next Grier/Palacios/Bliss, so I wouldn't focus on giving the NIL to just catchers.

Well said.  I recognize the SS to C conversion came mostly after FSU for Posey, how 'bout a Veritek or Weiters?  What I would really settle for is a Dunn (whose dad I played for before my time with Nix/Baird).  Really wish Butch could devote personnel to development, but the NCAA is an eff'ed up governing body that can't do much of anything right with college baseball....as noted by the OP.  The catching from one knee with runners on base is going to send me over the edge though, and receiving has been abysmal for the most part.....

[warbiscuit 278]

35 minutes ago, PowerOfDixieland said:

Well said.  I recognize the SS to C conversion came mostly after FSU for Posey, how 'bout a Veritek or Weiters?  What I would really settle for is a Dunn (whose dad I played for before my time with Nix/Baird).  Really wish Butch could devote personnel to development, but the NCAA is an eff'ed up governing body that can't do much of anything right with college baseball....as noted by the OP.  The catching from one knee with runners on base is going to send me over the edge though, and receiving has been abysmal for the most part.....

Now that I think about it, GT has a great history of catchers, and their last few have been pretty good with Joey Bart, Kyle McCann and Kevin Parada. I say we get Allen Greene to fork over some money for the catcher development coach.

Also I think with Dyal having a full offseason to prepare and Wyandt being there that the receiving will be better. In addition to having Tommy John, Dyal had a concussion in the fall of 2020 so he didn't have much time to improve his receiving from 2020 to last year. I think with LaRue being on the team still means he's gonna have a somewhat important role with the team as a backup C so it's possible he still gets time there. I haven't heard much on Sybrandt/Schorr and they were both somewhat highly rated out of high school. Schorr's summer league stats make me understand why he isn't being considered due to his high strikeout rate and not much power, but it's a bit disappointing that we have 5 scholarship catchers on the roster, just because you have a good bit of scholarship on the bench. I think LaRue may have been the player most screwed over by the 2020 season being cancelled as he was the defacto backup catcher with Dyal out and it seemed he was groomed to be the next Auburn catcher, and he couldn't train for several months properly during the offseason due to restrictions. And for that same reason Dyal (and you could argue Morrison) probably benefitted the most from the 2020 season being cancelled. To be honest I think Dyal would be perfectly fine as a catcher if he improves his hitting. He had a tough beginning of the year due to being rusty from the Tommy John and concussion and hadn't played really in scrimmage/game in full capacity in two years. Dyal had an OBP over .400 despite hitting .200, so if he hits .250/.400/.420 in 2022, that's a really productive hitter, especially for the catcher position if he provides very good defense. So I have hope he'll improve this year offensively and defensively. I thought LaRue's best hope was to pull a Steven Williams, but I think it's a little late for that.