Dukes the Scoop Take on Our Current Recruiting

[DAG 33,976]

Culture. Nobody questions Greg Popovich, Bill Belichik, NS because they are winners. BB and NS specifically are outed as no nonsense. Greg is kind of prick but funny. Not calling this guy, those guys, but culture matters. If he wins, it won't be an issue. 

[DAG 33,976]

Dabo is probably the perfect combination of both, but go ask Bama players are they having fun. Glad they are willing to listen, but please don't compromise.  Our guys were having a grand ole time dancing and laughing, losing in the bowl game last year.

Edited July 15, 2021 by DAG

[steeleagle 2,945]

1 minute ago, W.E.D said:

Maybe that's what he did a Boise and it was OK, but I'm surprised no one...especially the SEC guys said something to him before that.  But the good news is he's changing.

THis still is a head scratcher. Something doesn't seem right on Duke's 'info'.

Are players that Harsin recruited to Boise any different when it comes to recruiting visits than what Auburn or any school tries to do? I would think Harsin has incorporated 'hard work' and fun into his recruiting methods when he was at Boise and now at Auburn.

Just bc he's bringing in a higher level of recruits, doesn't mean that the methods to recruit that work would be different.

Was he too serious when he had recruits come to Boise for visits?  Just trying to get a better handle on these posts saying he might be losing some recruits because of too much seriousness.

[au302 2,669]

41 minutes ago, steeleagle said:

THis still is a head scratcher. Something doesn't seem right on Duke's 'info'.

Are players that Harsin recruited to Boise any different when it comes to recruiting visits than what Auburn or any school tries to do? I would think Harsin has incorporated 'hard work' and fun into his recruiting methods when he was at Boise and now at Auburn.

Just bc he's bringing in a higher level of recruits, doesn't mean that the methods to recruit that work would be different.

Was he too serious when he had recruits come to Boise for visits?  Just trying to get a better handle on these posts saying he might be losing some recruits because of too much seriousness.

I mean, I can't really blame him. DAG put a great example above. Imagine being Harsin from the booth watching our guys dancing on the sideline as we get run over by Northwestern. I don't blame him for coming in shocked and ticked off and maybe being even more intense than he was at Boise. At Boise, he took over for his mentor who had the same methods and mindset, so he probably didn't have to overhaul the culture like he is having to do here, just continue and build on it.

Recruits have probably heard in football circles about how "fun" our culture was under Gus, so maybe he is overcompensating with the intensity in recruiting as well to change that perception with his all business/seriousness attitude. As he gets established I'm sure he'll take it down just a notch because everyone will know what's up. But he'll always be intense, that's just who he is as a coach and there is nothing wrong with that  

[W.E.D 11,070]

1 hour ago, steeleagle said:

THis still is a head scratcher. Something doesn't seem right on Duke's 'info'.

Are players that Harsin recruited to Boise any different when it comes to recruiting visits than what Auburn or any school tries to do? I would think Harsin has incorporated 'hard work' and fun into his recruiting methods when he was at Boise and now at Auburn.

Just bc he's bringing in a higher level of recruits, doesn't mean that the methods to recruit that work would be different.

Was he too serious when he had recruits come to Boise for visits?  Just trying to get a better handle on these posts saying he might be losing some recruits because of too much seriousness.

Recruiting to a top G5 schools is probably a lot different than a top-ish P5 school.  You're finding kids that aren't really wanted buy the big guys and might be able to sell if you work hard you get there/NFL.  Just guessing.

[DAG 33,976]

22 minutes ago, au302 said:

I mean, I can't really blame him. DAG put a great example above. Imagine being Harsin from the booth watching our guys dancing on the sideline as we get run over by Northwestern. I don't blame him for coming in shocked and ticked off and maybe being even more intense than he was at Boise. At Boise, he took over for his mentor who had the same methods and mindset, so he probably didn't have to overhaul the culture like he is having to do here, just continue and build on it.

Recruits have probably heard in football circles about how "fun" our culture was under Gus, so maybe he is overcompensating with the intensity in recruiting as well to change that perception with his all business/seriousness attitude. As he gets established I'm sure he'll take it down just a notch because everyone will know what's up. But he'll always be intense, that's just who he is as a coach and there is nothing wrong with that  

I definitely remember someone say CBH was surprised at how out of shape the team was when he watched the bowl practice . But remember our 4/5 stars had fun against northwestern. I am sure our 4/5 stars had fun against Minnesota too. All that fun must be why they are behind the eight ball when they get to the professional league. Like I said Nick Saban loses his mind when his team gives up a first down leading up by 45 points but they call him crazy for it. I don’t know . I am a different type of cookie. 
 

Gus Malzhan had a hoot, dancing after we beat Mississippi state last year. What a fun time! NS t-Rex dances after a national championship win. But we got fans talking about they want to see more consistency against the big schools. Right…

Edited July 15, 2021 by DAG

[Beaker 2,457]

disclaimer:  I am not an expert and not "in anyone's camp" despite what you may read on another thread...or what you may think.  

 

Boise recruiting thoughts:

There are some definite advantages to go play in Boise vs mid level Pac12 teams:

• you are most likely getting away from a metro city or all that west coast chaos (it is safer too) (mostly thinking of Cali kids)
• it is beautiful and they have year round recreation like snowboarding and skiing, with mountains
• it is a more safe and attractive environment than just about any city on the western half of America
• you are playing for the conf championship every single year

I don't think recruiting at Boise was super difficult.   The hardest part is geography (it's a large footprint because there are not a lot of great football programs in the rocky mountain region).    But, then again, you are arguably the most consistent and successful program in the rocky mountain region and west coast which covers a lot states....you can argue you are the second most successful program in the west, second only to Oregon.

I say that to make the point, recruiting at Auburn is not easy.  We are surrounded by blue blood programs with extensive money guys and slimy negative recruiting stuff 24/7.  Harsin hired  Bobo and Mason to help him figure this out, but it will take a little while to get established and to win some important fights.

 

I honestly think it is an easier sell at Boise for a very good 3* player,   than  for Auburn  to secure a high 3* or any 4*.   

Let that sink in....

 

Edited July 15, 2021 by Beaker

[augolf1716 21,103]

2 hours ago, bigbird said:

Thank god could you continue for another year or so

[augolf1716 21,103]

24 minutes ago, DAG said:

I definitely remember someone say CBH was surprised at how out of shape the team was when he watched the bowl practice

He was shocked 

[VAtiger12 112]

17 minutes ago, augolf1716 said:

He was shocked 

I blame a lot of that on the pandemic though. Routinely over the last few years we've had guys in great S&C shape and Russell was generally regarded as one of the best. 

[e808 3,025]

Idk how to look at the out of shape comment. Hard to gauge how all of the COVID restrictions affected each TEAM.  I know every team had to deal with it but I am sure alot of things had to be amended outside of the norm. I would think in a normal year guys would be in pretty good shape. Especially the running backs and defense (from all of the 3 and outs). Gus would run them to death.

Edited July 15, 2021 by e808

[augolf1716 21,103]

28 minutes ago, VAtiger12 said:

I blame a lot of that on the pandemic though. Routinely over the last few years we've had guys in great S&C shape and Russell was generally regarded as one of the best. 

Didn't seem to impact Minnesota

[McLoofus 35,182]

49 minutes ago, Beaker said:

disclaimer:  I am not an expert and not "in anyone's camp" despite what you may read on another thread...or what you may think.  

 

Boise recruiting thoughts:

There are some definite advantages to go play in Boise vs mid level Pac12 teams:

• you are most likely getting away from a metro city or all that west coast chaos (it is safer too) (mostly thinking of Cali kids)
• it is beautiful and they have year round recreation like snowboarding and skiing, with mountains
• it is a more safe and attractive environment than just about any city on the western half of America
• you are playing for the conf championship every single year

I don't think recruiting at Boise was super difficult.   The hardest part is geography (it's a large footprint because there are not a lot of great football programs in the rocky mountain region).    But, then again, you are arguably the most consistent and successful program in the rocky mountain region and west coast which covers a lot states....you can argue you are the second most successful program in the west, second only to Oregon.

I say that to make the point, recruiting at Auburn is not easy.  We are surrounded by blue blood programs with extensive money guys and slimy negative recruiting stuff 24/7.  Harsin hired  Bobo and Mason to help him figure this out, but it will take a little while to get established and to win some important fights.

 

I honestly think it is an easier sell at Boise for a very good 3* player,   than  for Auburn  to secure a high 3* or any 4*.   

Let that sink in....

 

I'm afraid that actually won't be sinking in. Sorry. Geography and talent concentration and SEC exposure and competition matter way more than you think they do. Also, it seems like you might be a little out of touch with what matters to college athletes. (I'll ignore the silly stuff about metros and the west coast so as to avoid a political conversation.)

Also, did you notice how many of his staff jumped at the chance to move all the way across the country with him? 

[steeleagle 2,945]

50 minutes ago, Beaker said:

disclaimer:  I am not an expert and not "in anyone's camp" despite what you may read on another thread...or what you may think.  

 

Boise recruiting thoughts:

There are some definite advantages to go play in Boise vs mid level Pac12 teams:

• you are most likely getting away from a metro city or all that west coast chaos (it is safer too) (mostly thinking of Cali kids)
• it is beautiful and they have year round recreation like snowboarding and skiing, with mountains
• it is a more safe and attractive environment than just about any city on the western half of America
• you are playing for the conf championship every single year

I don't think recruiting at Boise was super difficult.   The hardest part is geography (it's a large footprint because there are not a lot of great football programs in the rocky mountain region).    But, then again, you are arguably the most consistent and successful program in the rocky mountain region and west coast which covers a lot states....you can argue you are the second most successful program in the west, second only to Oregon.

I say that to make the point, recruiting at Auburn is not easy.  We are surrounded by blue blood programs with extensive money guys and slimy negative recruiting stuff 24/7.  Harsin hired  Bobo and Mason to help him figure this out, but it will take a little while to get established and to win some important fights.

 

I honestly think it is an easier sell at Boise for a very good 3* player,   than  for Auburn  to secure a high 3* or any 4*.   

Let that sink in....

 

Not sure I agree with this. When Harsin was at Boise, all those teams in his conference were fighting for the good 3* guys. None of them could get the 4*s or maybe even the 'best' 3* players. He just did a better job of developing and probably running his offense/defense successfully too.

Auburn SHOULD be able to pull in  the best 3*s and many in the range of low to high 4*s bc they ARE in the SEC, better exposure, Auburn HAS a legacy of winning it all, and should continue to have a better chance of winning it all, and going to a great bowl game. Our history shows we don't get many years when we get more than 2 5* players and most of the time we get 1 or zero. 

Harsin has to get mostly 4s and a lot of high 3s for now, along with his ability to win on the field too, and that will work. THEN he will have a shot at more 5*s bc of 'culture' and 'attitude' and 'performance on the field'. 

The questions that are popping up for now are simply are his recruiting tactics and messaging too 'working attitude' heavy.

[McLoofus 35,182]

3 minutes ago, steeleagle said:

Not sure I agree with this. When Harsin was at Boise, all those teams in his conference were fighting for the good 3* guys. None of them could get the 4*s or maybe even the 'best' 3* players. He just did a better job of developing and probably running his offense/defense successfully too.

You're right about three stars and four stars but Boise definitely dominated that conference in recruiting every year that Harsin was there. It was both. He recruited them better and he developed them better. But he still had to go to Arizona and Texas and even Alabama to get them. 

[DAG 33,976]

53 minutes ago, e808 said:

I know every team had to deal with it

Buck stops right there.

[DAG 33,976]

32 minutes ago, augolf1716 said:

Didn't seem to impact Minnesota

nor Northwestern 

[McLoofus 35,182]

33 minutes ago, augolf1716 said:

Didn't seem to impact Minnesota

Or Boise.

[Barnacle 9,064]

I just don't understand this notion that he's not getting kids because he's a hard ass. Clearly, he has high expectations, has set and raised standards within the program, and takes a more comprehensive "business" like approach to his program. But like @McLoofussaid earlier in this thread, having Harsin's approach and cultivating a family atmosphere aren't mutually exclusive. In fact, from what I've read in interviews and in the media, he is cultivating a family atmosphere. I'm surprised that recruits are alleged to be turned off by him, frankly, and I imagine those claims are exaggerated. Maybe negative recruiting has fostered that perception, I don't know. 

Gus was recruiting, with some caveats, high character, hard working kids into his program. His problem was, among other things, mismanagement of those players. It's not like Malzahn left the cupboards bare of high character, hard working guys who are serious about their craft. I'm not questioning that a culture change exists, only that we are having to target a completely different type of player due to the culture change. 

Moreover, there are plenty of serious, blue collar football recruits out there, going to programs with far worse reputations for "no b.s." culture than Auburn. It's an odd justification for a lack of interest in Auburn. 

Edited. And I'll add that I can't see the Carl Lawsons, Derrick Browns, the Ryan Davis's, the Owen Pappoes, or the Shaun Shivers of the recruiting landscape being turned off by a more serious approach to a program. So many other guys that I could list that eat, sleep, and breathe football. I don't understand why current 4 and 5 star recruits with similar attitudes would be turned off by it now. 

Edited July 15, 2021 by Barnacle

[e808 3,025]

Also thats his point of view of practice before a bowl game. Unless I was watching the wrong TV I didnt observe the TEAM losing because of fatigue during the season or any other season. I saw boneheaded coaching or poor execution. Again if conditioning was that bad there is now way the defense could have towed the line that much bad as the offense was if they were out of shape.

[McLoofus 35,182]

1 minute ago, e808 said:

Also thats his point of view of practice before a bowl game. Unless I was watching the wrong TV I didnt observe the TEAM losing because of fatigue during the season or any other season. I saw boneheaded coaching or poor execution. Again if conditioning was that bad there is now way the defense could have towed the line that much bad as the offense was if they were out of shape.

The players themselves have commented on it quite a bit.

[meh130 1,043]

3 hours ago, steeleagle said:

THis still is a head scratcher. Something doesn't seem right on Duke's 'info'.

Are players that Harsin recruited to Boise any different when it comes to recruiting visits than what Auburn or any school tries to do? I would think Harsin has incorporated 'hard work' and fun into his recruiting methods when he was at Boise and now at Auburn.

Just bc he's bringing in a higher level of recruits, doesn't mean that the methods to recruit that work would be different.

Was he too serious when he had recruits come to Boise for visits?  Just trying to get a better handle on these posts saying he might be losing some recruits because of too much seriousness.

I think this answers itself. If you are a 3-star that is not being recruited heavily by the big PAC-12 schools, and you are being recruited by a hard-edged coach at a MWC school, you might think you are better served to go to a "all-business" Group of 5 school over a struggling PAC-12 school. But if you are a 4-star, you may feel like you are going to end up at a top-25 program, so you are looking for something more.

I think the "all-business" approach works for Nick Saban. It could work for other top schools. But we are not there yet. A 4 or 5 star needs to have a reason to choose Auburn.

[DAG 33,976]

11 minutes ago, e808 said:

Also thats his point of view of practice before a bowl game. Unless I was watching the wrong TV I didnt observe the TEAM losing because of fatigue during the season or any other season. I saw boneheaded coaching or poor execution. Again if conditioning was that bad there is now way the defense could have towed the line that much bad as the offense was if they were out of shape.

Iono where you have been but we have had specific players say how hard the workouts been compared to last year. Heck a brother of a current player who we are recruiting said this staff has pushed them harder than he has ever been pushed. I think fatigue , mental acuity , toughness all plays a major factor in why talented squads have been majorly inconsistent in the past.

[DAG 33,976]

1 minute ago, meh130 said:

think the "all-business" approach works for Nick Saban.

It does work but this is something he has been preaching and perfecting since he started head coaching and learning under no other than Bill Belichik. He didn’t get this way over night and the success didn’t happen over night either . There is a lot of instant gratification folks around here it seems and unfortunately the past two coaches had success quickly but they could never maintain it one bit.

[e808 3,025]

I saw something about the practice maybe more demanding not guys being out of shape. Brown, Lawson, Davidson, Mason , Kj and the list goes on never appeared to be out of shape. For some reason preparations for bowl games were lacking out side of the Natty. However, its a moot point. Lets just see what Harsin does.