Harsin: Team 60% vacinated

[TexasTiger 12,830]

6 hours ago, AUght2win said:

We never have and cannot in any practical way revolve society around the most sickly and immunocompromised. That argument needs to stop.

Actually, until very recently folks across the political spectrum (particularly religious folks)  believed in achieving herd immunity in part to protect those folks along with everybody else. There was a time folks thought being an thoughtless ass was uncool. Now a sizable segment of society wears it like a badge of honor. That’s actually what needs to stop.

[AUght2win 6,833]

2 minutes ago, cbo said:

Surges are happening. Some hospitals are seeing volumes equal or greater to peak COVID. Many others are seeing volumes greater than the last six months at least. So it’s not a lie to say they are starting to stress. 

No, the dam didn’t burst earlier, thanks to the tireless work of so many in healthcare. But it was an awful situation we don’t want to return to or be flippant about. 

We won't. There are far too many people vaccinated to ever see numbers like we had at the worst point. Unless the vaccine wears off faster than anticipated.

[Quietmaninthecorner 1,945]

4 minutes ago, AUght2win said:

But see, absolutes like this is where people feel like they're being lied to.

It's a vaccine that was fast-tracked in a historic, unprecedented process. Currently, it doesn't appear dangerous in the short term. But we have no earthly idea whether or not there will be longterm effects. 

It's purely an unknown. 

  the virus IS dangerous in the short term and proving to have long term effects on a large  percentage of patients. 

The vaccine is much safer in the short term  and will most likely be safer in the long run.  No one knows for sure that the vaccine will be safe in the long run,  but we have seen what the virus can do in the short and semi-long run ( lung transplants and "Long Covid")

 

 

[AUght2win 6,833]

Just now, TexasTiger said:

Actually, until very recently folks across the political spectrum (particularly religious folks)  believed in achieving herd immunity in part to protect those folks along with everybody else. There was a time folks thought being an thoughtless ass was uncool. Now a sizable segment of society wears it like a badge of honor. That’s actually what needs to stop.

Just put your money where your mouth is, is all I ask. Because covid isn't the only risk to the immunocompromised or those with pre-existing conditions. Even simple colds and flus have always proven deadly for the most vulnerable. 

So, in order to be truly conscientious, I expect you to wear a mask for the remainder of your life. In addition to maintaining 6 foot social distancing for the remainder of your life. I expect you not to attend any public gatherings ever again, as you could transmit or gain a deadly contagion there. 

That's just a small fraction of what we'd have to do to truly live out that belief, but it's a start. 

[Quietmaninthecorner 1,945]

6 minutes ago, AUght2win said:

We won't. There are far too many people vaccinated to ever see numbers like we had at the worst point. Unless the vaccine wears off faster than anticipated.

Here are just a few of the placing having surges again.  some the same as the peak,  some approaching the peak , some hospitals have more than ever. 

https://cbs12.com/news/local/florida-reports-highest-daily-covid-case-count-since-january

https://www.readfrontier.org/stories/coronaviruscases-and-hospitalizations-are-rising-in-oklahoma/

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/23/us/covid-hospitals-florida.html

https://www.al.com/news/2021/07/alabama-hospitals-filling-up-after-self-inflicted-wound-from-covid.html

https://www.kmbc.com/article/university-of-kansas-health-system-says-hospital-beds-are-filling-up-fast/37096066#

[AUght2win 6,833]

4 minutes ago, Quietmaninthecorner said:

  the virus IS dangerous in the short term and proving to have long term effects on a large  percentage of patients. 

The vaccine is much safer in the short term  and will most likely be safer in the long run.  No one knows for sure that the vaccine will be safe in the long run,  but we have seen what the virus can do in the short and semi-long run ( lung transplants and "Long Covid")

 

 

I'm not even being sarcastic when I say I totally agree. I got the vaccine in April. I think it's the right call. I also think it isn't right for me, a very fallible person who is no more or less important than anyone else, to force that on other people. What right do I have to force someone to believe what I believe about the vaccine?

That's my whole argument. I want everyone to be free to make their own decisions in life, within reason.

[Tigerbelle 5,299]

7 minutes ago, AUght2win said:

But see, absolutes like this is where people feel like they're being lied to.

It's a vaccine that was fast-tracked in a historic, unprecedented process. Currently, it doesn't appear dangerous in the short term. But we have no earthly idea whether or not there will be longterm effects. 

It's purely an unknown. 

They DO know. They spent over 20 YEARS researching the technology and biology involved. You just didn't know about it. Scientists recognized the potential danger and began their work because they understood that there would be a need for it at some point. When the time came....they were ready. It wasn't just thrown together on a whim.

COVID has KNOWN long term effects in many people. I'd take a vaccine over a double lung transplant any day. Or permanent lung damage, blood clots, myocarditis, heart attacks, kidney and spleen damage....it is a terrible disease for millions of people. 

[Quietmaninthecorner 1,945]

Just now, AUght2win said:

I'm not even being sarcastic when I say I totally agree. I got the vaccine in April. I think it's the right call. I also think it isn't right for me, a very fallible person who is no more or less important than anyone else, to force that on other people. What right do I have to force someone to believe what I believe about the vaccine?

That's my whole argument. I want everyone to be free to make their own decisions in life, within reason.

They should be free to make choices. But people should WANT  to get the vaccine.

People need to stop believing in social media misinformation.

To live in society you have to have rules.  People need to have some amount concern for the public good. 

You cant walk around town with a box of matches lighting them and tossing them everywhere.  That is what people are doing that are not getting vaccinated.  Spreading the virus with little sparks of contagion turning into surges of patients.  A big enough surge and we will likely have more mutations.

 

 

[AUght2win 6,833]

1 minute ago, Tigerbelle said:

They DO know. They spent over 20 YEARS researching the technology and biology involved. You just didn't know about it. Scientists recognized the potential danger and began their work because they understood that there would be a need for it at some point. When the time came....they were ready. It wasn't just thrown together on a whim.

COVID has KNOWN long term effects in many people. I'd take a vaccine over a double lung transplant any day. Or permanent lung damage, blood clots, myocarditis, heart attacks, kidney and spleen damage....it is a terrible disease for millions of people. 

See that simply is not true. 

We don't know a TON about how many modern marvels will affect us 10, 20, 50 years from now. For instance, we have no earthly idea whether something as common as cell phone use will cause cancer in the long run. 

And it's becoming increasingly clear through damning, OJ-level circumstantial evidence, that the research you cite - gain of function - is what CAUSED this epidemic. 

We need to have humility about our science. We're only human.

[AUght2win 6,833]

Just now, Quietmaninthecorner said:

They should be free to make choices. But people should WANT  to get the vaccine.

People need to stop believing in social media misinformation.

To live in society you have to have rules.  People need to have some amount concern for the public good. 

You cant walk around town with a box of matches lighting them and tossing them everywhere.  That is what people are doing that are not getting vaccinated.  Spreading the virus with little sparks of contagion turning into surges of patients.  A big enough surge and we will likely have more mutations.

 

 

That's not an accurate comparison. Unvaccinated people are only dangerous to other unvaccinated people. Like consenting adults who engage in unprotected sex are only a danger to themselves. Their STDs don't spread to non participants. 

People should want to get the vaccine. But for someone like a totally healthy, world class athlete, 20 year old football player, the known risk of covid is microscopic.

So for them it's a microscopic risk vs. a longterm unknown.

We can either trust the science, or not. I trust the science. The science says healthy young people have virtually nothing to worry about.

[Quietmaninthecorner 1,945]

2 minutes ago, AUght2win said:

That's not an accurate comparison. Unvaccinated people are only dangerous to other unvaccinated people. Like consenting adults who engage in unprotected sex are only a danger to themselves. Their STDs don't spread to non participantal

People should want to get the vaccine. But for someone like a totally healthy, world class athlete, 20 year old football player, the known risk of covid is microscopic.

So for them it's a microscopic risk vs. a longterm unknown.

We can either trust the science, or not. I trust the science. The science says healthy young people have virtually nothing to worry about.

 

Almost everything yo are saying is misinformation.  Vaccinated people are getting the mutations now.  

https://www.wate.com/news/1000-breakthrough-cases-of-covid-19-reported-in-tennessee/

"But for someone like a totally healthy, world class athlete, 20 year old football player, the known risk of covid is microscopic."

Tho sort of true, it is more of a deflection than anything.   The youngsters  can carry it and be another vector that may cause a mutation that causes break through cases.   

"The science says healthy young people have virtually nothing to worry about."     

 That is changing as information comes out on the variants.  Hospitals have already seen the age of patients drop into the 30's lately.  many hospitals are  are seeing more children.  We had 2 children die here in Arkansas recently.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[japantiger 4,051]

On 7/22/2021 at 9:21 PM, SLAG-91 said:

It'$ beyond weird, it'$ flat-out disingenuou$ and borderline deceit via omi$$ion.

If you've had Covid already, that should absolutely be treated as a vaccination.  If I'd had it already, there's no way I would have gotten the shot.

I loved Mike Leach's response to the "are you vaccinated?" question he was asked at media days.  Basically, he said"It's none of your GD business."

 

I am in Dar Es Salaam traveling back to the US; to get back into the US; the current requirements says I either need a 1) Covid test taken within 72 hours of boarding my flight or 2) proof of infection recovery.  Hhhmmm.  So apparently, CBP and the CDC think infection recovery is as good as vaccination.

Edited to add a copy of my form...headed to airport in30 minutes here...and your post was dead on by the way

Edited July 24, 2021 by japantiger
See above

[japantiger 4,051]

I think the term "breakthru case" is a bull**** panic porn marketing term.  With ~160m people vaccinated on this group of  vaccines that are  ~95% effective,  you will naturally have ~8m people still susceptible to this flu.   Breakthru case tries to imply something unexpected or unusual is happening; it's not.

[Gowebb11 9,314]

8 hours ago, AUGoo said:

Exactly!

Now move to the political forum for the discussion on this question.

You first. Lol. 

[Sizzle 3,911]

8 hours ago, AUght2win said:

Doesn't justify what you're going for. You can't pass a lethal or serious case of covid to a vaccinated person. Almost 100% of those hospitalized from C19 right now are unvaccinated. Chances are astronomically low of dying from C19 after being vaccinated.

Bottomline: those who want to be safe from covid already are, via the vaccine that's been widely available for months. Others that aren't afraid or choose to risk covid have made their choice, and the consequences will fall squarely on their own heads.

It’s not only about death but nobody knows the long term effects of Covid. Even with the vaccine. Vaccine ≠ cure

[TexasTiger 12,830]

7 hours ago, AUght2win said:

Just put your money where your mouth is, is all I ask. Because covid isn't the only risk to the immunocompromised or those with pre-existing conditions. Even simple colds and flus have always proven deadly for the most vulnerable. 

So, in order to be truly conscientious, I expect you to wear a mask for the remainder of your life. In addition to maintaining 6 foot social distancing for the remainder of your life. I expect you not to attend any public gatherings ever again, as you could transmit or gain a deadly contagion there. 

That's just a small fraction of what we'd have to do to truly live out that belief, but it's a start. 

Except that’s a totally irrational response. Just get vaccinated against known threats for which there’s a largely effective vaccine. Yours is a straw man argument. Covid has proven to be a far greater threat than a cold or the typical seasonal flu.

[AuburnEagle79 2,165]

14 hours ago, CoffeeTiger said:

Unfortunately, our hospitals and doctors can’t refuse  To treat all the unvaccinated dumbasses that stroll through the door and he upcoming variant waves are already starting to stress some Heath systems.

also there is a a correlation between the unvaccinated being less educated and poorer, so our Medicaid and Medicare system will be paying out a lot of Covid related expenses.

 

 

I'm about to play math with your comment.

1. Unvaccinated = DA's

2. Unvaccinated = Underprivileged

3 Underprivileged = DA's? 

I feel like you probably don't mean that, but come on now. You can't go calling people DA's because they don't agree with you on a topic. 

[AuburnEagle79 2,165]

8 hours ago, TexasTiger said:

Actually, until very recently folks across the political spectrum (particularly religious folks)  believed in achieving herd immunity in part to protect those folks along with everybody else. There was a time folks thought being an thoughtless ass was uncool. Now a sizable segment of society wears it like a badge of honor. That’s actually what needs to stop.

I agree with you here as far as working toward herd immunity. But, as you probably know, herd immunity will probably be a combo effect. Vaccinated plus the virus running through the population.

The most likely scenario would be all the at risk people get the vaccine, which I support, a good chunk of young people get it, and another good chunk of young people get the virus and recover. 

I think our football team in all likelyhood falls into that third category but we won't ever get that info. The virus ran through our team last summer. 

[Hank2020 3,199]

8 minutes ago, AuburnEagle79 said:

I'm about to play math with your comment.

1. Unvaccinated = DA's

2. Unvaccinated = Underprivileged

3 Underprivileged = DA's? 

I feel like you probably don't mean that, but come on now. You can't go calling people DA's because they don't agree with you on a topic. 

Sure you can. Some of us think it al the time.

[TexasTiger 12,830]

4 minutes ago, AuburnEagle79 said:

I agree with you here as far as working toward herd immunity. But, as you probably know, herd immunity will probably be a combo effect. Vaccinated plus the virus running through the population.

The most likely scenario would be all the at risk people get the vaccine, which I support, a good chunk of young people get it, and another good chunk of young people get the virus and recover. 

I think our football team in all likelyhood falls into that third category but we won't ever get that info. The virus ran through our team last summer. 

The problem with waiting on folks to acquire the virus is that every person getting it becomes an incubator for mutation of the virus and mutations may not be as well prevented by the vaccine. Reaching herd immunity more quickly through vaccination makes mutations far less likely and hastens getting “back to normal,” or close to it. The current situation with large segments avoiding the vaccine allows for a series of mutations that continue for some time.

[augolf1716 21,107]

Damn folks what's wrong with you been a whole hour and not one post...............................come on now 

[cole256 17,043]

17 minutes ago, augolf1716 said:

Damn folks what's wrong with you been a whole hour and not one post...............................come on now 

I read a few scientific articles this morning *shrug*

[Hank2020 3,199]

17 minutes ago, augolf1716 said:

Damn folks what's wrong with you been a whole hour and not one post...............................come on now 

I hope we have posted this thread to it’s end.

[Hank2020 3,199]

Just now, cole256 said:

I read a few scientific articles this morning *shrug*

Well “pin” them up for us all!!

[toddc 13,194]

Nobody is going to convince the other side so can’t we just call it a wrap? 😝