Anti Vaxxer Honor Roll

[creed 1,628]

1 hour ago, homersapien said:

And every one is based on a truth, if not the truth. 

Some people don't care for the whole truth, without prejudice or bias, or accountability. Apparently it makes them uncomfortable.

 

You left a few words out, but otherwise a true statement.

[SaltyTiger 7,761]

28 minutes ago, homersapien said:

Here you go Salty:

It is hard to have a lot of sympathy for true “anti vaxxers” that rejected the science for whatever reason….just don’t care to celebrate with you.

[homersapien 11,346]

43 minutes ago, creed said:

You left a few words out, but otherwise a true statement.

No, actually I used all the words I intended.  Perhaps you would have worded it differently, but not me.

Edited September 8, 2021 by homersapien

[homersapien 11,346]

39 minutes ago, SaltyTiger said:

It is hard to have a lot of sympathy for true “anti vaxxers” that rejected the science for whatever reason….just don’t care to celebrate with you.

First, to be clear, I never said I "celebrate" the deaths of these people.

Secondly, I understand there are a (very) few people who cannot take the vaccine for a medical reason. 

From a practical standpoint, I don't understand how the rest can be differentiated between "true" or something else ("untrue"?).

And I didn't ask you or anyone else to "celebrate" the accountability that resulted from their decisions. 

If it were in my power, I would have tried to save their lives by convincing them to get vaccinated. But that is certainly not my - or apparently, anyone else's power.  I am sure that most of them regret their decision in their last waning moments of consciousness.

Hopefully their deaths won't be totally in vain and it will help to convince others to reconsider their decisions. (Most of the stories I have heard of families that had an unvaccinated family member survive promptly got vaccinated, so at least they helped their families.)

Otherwise, to be honest, we are probably better off without them. All they were doing while alive is propagating the very ignorance that killed them, which only put countless others in the same danger. 

Edited September 8, 2021 by homersapien

[SaltyTiger 7,761]

9 minutes ago, homersapien said:

don't understand how the rest can be differentiated between "true" or something else ("untrue"?).

Just saying “anti vaccine” or not believing the science not the reason many refused the vax. Not smart of them but true ( I know nursing moms that just did not feel comfortable)

[homersapien 11,346]

3 minutes ago, SaltyTiger said:

Just saying “anti vaccine” or not believing the science not the reason many refused the vax. Not smart of them but true ( I know nursing moms that just did not feel comfortable)

What reason is there to not believe in vaccines other than rejecting the science?  

I suppose one might say religion, but that's exactly the same as rejecting the science.

[SaltyTiger 7,761]

16 minutes ago, homersapien said:

What reason is there to not believe in vaccines other than rejecting the science?  

I suppose one might say religion, but that's exactly the same as rejecting the science.

Why are you asking me? Some people did not reject the science yet still did not get the vaccine.

[homersapien 11,346]

27 minutes ago, SaltyTiger said:

Why are you asking me? Some people did not reject the science yet still did not get the vaccine.

I inferred there some other reason you didn't mention.  Sounds like you meant just simple negligence or absent-mindedness.  

I suppose that's possible, but it's hard to imagine anyone could be so out of touch.  Not too many families - if any -  in this country that don't have a TV.

I got my shots at the supermarket where I shop.  They had a big sign welcoming walk-up customers.  And it's free.

[TitanTiger 20,463]

Removing the hard core anti-vax crowd from the discussion for a moment - because those dingbats have been believing bull**** about vaccines causing autism and every other scary thing under the sun for decades now and it would matter if Jesus Christ himself had developed this one, they wouldn't take it...

...I understood somewhat being hesitant about the COVID vaccines back in February and March.  I get not wanting to be the first in line (even though technically even then there were about 22,000 people ahead of you from the clinical trial, depending on which company's vaccine you ended up getting).  Let others get it first, see how they do.  Fine.  But by the time the summer rolled around we were approaching 100 million doses in arms in the US and several hundred million worldwide.  It was apparent by then that there weren't any serious issues with these vaccines and that they were very effective.  At this point we now have almost 160 million people fully vaccinated and over 370 million doses in arms total in the US.  Over 5.5 BILLION doses have been administered worldwide.  Even the scariest numbers reported by fear mongers with no regard to facts (mindlessly pulling unverified numbers from sources like VAERS) are saying maybe 50,000 serious adverse reactions have happened.  Even if we accepted that idiotic number, out of 376,000,000 doses given in the US, you'd be talking about a rate of around 0.013% - a little over one hundredth of one percent.  And the truth is, the real number of serious reactions isn't likely to even be 1/20th that large.  Anyone using a speck of basic common sense should be able to see that the vaccines are safe and all they have to do is look at the numbers of people in the hospital, in the ICU and on vents who are unvaccinated compared to the vaccinated to see that they are stunningly effective.

Compare that to the fact that we have over 660,000 deaths from COVID just in the US and over 4.5 million worldwide and countless more who spent weeks in the hospital fighting for their lives and eating up valuable medical resources.  The numbers aren't even in the same galaxy.  You're playing Russian roulette with this virus if you persist in living your life unvaccinated.

So at this point, avoiding the vaccine - unless there is a known medical reason you cannot take them (not just "wE dOn'T kNoW tHe LoNg tErM eFfEcTs!" or "iT's aLL aBoUt cOnTRoL!") - is an exercise in willful stupidity.  I don't want anyone to die.  All of them are tragic, especially for their loved ones left behind.  But son of a ******* bitch - wake the **** up, people.

[TitanTiger 20,463]

[DKW 86 7,410]

Last nite, one of my closest friends, Mr Antivaxxer in my world, finally got vaxxed...AFTER almost dying in the hospital of COVID. In my Men's Group, suddenly most of the men started admitting they had been vaxxed too. He had intimidated fully half or more of our group into not admitting they had vaxxed. I was the only one trying to get others to wise up. I guess they listened, but they wouldnt admit it in front of the whole group until last nite. Again, i was blown away that so many were vaxxed, but also in awe that they would not admit it in a Men's Small Group due to not wanting to offend the others. Now, I bet all but one is vaxxed by the end of the month,

Progress!

[wdefromtx 3,159]

Getting the original doses is one thing, but what about the recurring boosters they seem to be saying we need to get every 8 months or whatever? 
 

Does that change anyone’s thoughts about any potential long term effects? Some we just simply don’t know about due to lack of available long term trials and testing. 

[TitanTiger 20,463]

13 minutes ago, wdefromtx said:

Getting the original doses is one thing, but what about the recurring boosters they seem to be saying we need to get every 8 months or whatever? 
 

Does that change anyone’s thoughts about any potential long term effects? Some we just simply don’t know about due to lack of available long term trials and testing. 

There's nothing so novel in these vaccines that would give one any reason to believe that there are some mysterious long term effects from them that will only show up years down the road but not early on.  In fact, there's no vaccine in history that's had long term adverse effects that didn't show up in the first month or two after vaccination.  We've given out 5.5 billion doses over the last 7 months.  If there were going to be long term effects we'd have seen them by now.  

And part of that is the nature of how vaccines work.  This isn't like a delayed release medication that stays in your body for long periods of time or something.  It's not like a birth control implant or patch giving out a gradual 30-day dose of hormones.  Vaccines are designed to deliver a payload to your cells and then breakdown or be expelled from the body.  That payload then gets your own immune system to recognize an invader and to build antibodies to attack it in the future.  The ingredients in these vaccines isn't unusual even if the delivery mechanism is relatively (as in, only a couple of decades) new in the making.

Don't let people scare you with fact-less hypotheticals with no basis in science or immunology, spreading fear, uncertainty and doubt.

[wdefromtx 3,159]

33 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

There's nothing so novel in these vaccines that would give one any reason to believe that there are some mysterious long term effects from them that will only show up years down the road but not early on.  In fact, there's no vaccine in history that's had long term adverse effects that didn't show up in the first month or two after vaccination.  We've given out 5.5 billion doses over the last 7 months.  If there were going to be long term effects we'd have seen them by now.  

And part of that is the nature of how vaccines work.  This isn't like a delayed release medication that stays in your body for long periods of time or something.  It's not like a birth control implant or patch giving out a gradual 30-day dose of hormones.  Vaccines are designed to deliver a payload to your cells and then breakdown or be expelled from the body.  That payload then gets your own immune system to recognize an invader and to build antibodies to attack it in the future.  The ingredients in these vaccines isn't unusual even if the delivery mechanism is relatively (as in, only a couple of decades) new in the making.

Don't let people scare you with fact-less hypotheticals with no basis in science or immunology, spreading fear, uncertainty and doubt.

I know how vaccines work..............I am just posing the question if anyone has a different view on any effects that may or may not pop up if boosters are required every 8 months (or whatever.) 

I know people that have had these concerns from the beginning and it is much greater when they heard about the boosters. These aren't people that throw science out the window (although I know a few....I think we all do by now.) There is nothing wrong with someone wanting to see the data of the mRNA vaccines previously and continuously used as boosters to make sure they are safe.  

[AU9377 4,908]

22 hours ago, SaltyTiger said:

Which is the intent of the post. It serves no other purpose.

Because saying  "come on folks.... seriously, please look at the facts again"  would really get the job done?

[CoffeeTiger 5,075]

[SaltyTiger 7,761]

17 minutes ago, AU9377 said:

Because saying  "come on folks.... seriously, please look at the facts again"  would really get the job done?

Then if this sort thing helps “ get the job done” I have no problem with it.

[Elephant Tipper 430]

On 9/9/2021 at 11:24 AM, wdefromtx said:

I know how vaccines work..............I am just posing the question if anyone has a different view on any effects that may or may not pop up if boosters are required every 8 months (or whatever.) 

I know people that have had these concerns from the beginning and it is much greater when they heard about the boosters. These aren't people that throw science out the window (although I know a few....I think we all do by now.) There is nothing wrong with someone wanting to see the data of the mRNA vaccines previously and continuously used as boosters to make sure they are safe.  

I'm pro vax, but not mass vax for two reasons: 1) The issue not discussed about mandatory, mass vaccination is that implementing such a policy hastens the demise of the the current vaccine because the practice forces a premature mutation of the virus and actually weakens the efficacy of your vaccination faster.  This should concern those of you who have compromising health conditions.  No, your vaccination isn't expiring next month, but vaccinations should last a longer period than projected with the current forms.   Due to the extreme nature of COVID-19, in virulence, infectiousness and mutation, only those whose health is compromised should be vaccinated (with physician consultation), otherwise, the vaccine becomes overexposed when given to the healthy.  Can't believe that we have these walk-ups at stores, which is a very bad practice. To be clear, those who are very healthy, in consultation with one's physician (you may not be healthy and other exceptions), should forego the vaccine, otherwise, those individuals will hasten the mutations if vaccinated; 2) Any mandatory policy forced upon one's body is wrong.  For those posting mask or vaccine deniers (some of the cartoons are very funny) from by-gone years should remember how our government had mandatory policies forced upon the bodies of black Americans (and white) in the early 20th century.  The government should NEVER have this power over the citizenry.  Vaccination should be a decision between the patient and his doctor only, not the government and the patient.  One size fits all is a very, very bad policy.

Personally, I am not vaxed, nor will I be.  Not only am I very healthy, but also have a very simple health practice which attenuates the virus locally (also disrupts mRNA transcription) and thereby allows me to be safely exposed to ALL the antigens to which I develop antibodies, no matter which variant we may be experiencing. The current vaccine is for the alpha antigen only and we are now on our 14th variant (I think, could be more by now).  Boosters may be a moot approach and instead require a total reworking of the vaccine because of the mutations of the extreme virulence and infectiousness of COVID-19.  Thank you Wuhan and Dr. Fauxci for your contribution to "science" in up-regulating a coronavirus.  You succeeded.

To achieve herd immunity faster, the virus should be allowed to spread among the healthy (in consultation with one's physician), but the unhealthy should be protected by vaccination (in consultation with one's physician).  Mass vaccination of the healthy only deters this essential, natural process. The virus will diminish itself if allowed to do so, just as wildfires do with the aid of hotshots (the equivalent of the vaccination).  Because of the mass hysteria about COVID-19, this concept is moot now, shouldn't be, but it is.

One last note, if you are a healthcare worker who works in a close-quarter environment, then you MUST be vaccinated, healthy or not.  You are overexposed to the virus.  There are other exceptions, but my post is too long.  Confer with your physician.

 

[I_M4_AU 7,759]

@Elephant Tipperthanks for the write-up.  Very informative.  I believe the initial mass hysteria has sent the masses in the wrong direction.

[wdefromtx 3,159]

1 hour ago, Elephant Tipper said:

I'm pro vax, but not mass vax for two reasons: 1) The issue not discussed about mandatory, mass vaccination is that implementing such a policy hastens the demise of the the current vaccine because the practice forces a premature mutation of the virus and actually weakens the efficacy of your vaccination faster.  This should concern those of you who have compromising health conditions.  No, your vaccination isn't expiring next month, but vaccinations should last a longer period than projected with the current forms.   Due to the extreme nature of COVID-19, in virulence, infectiousness and mutation, only those whose health is compromised should be vaccinated (with physician consultation), otherwise, the vaccine becomes overexposed when given to the healthy.  Can't believe that we have these walk-ups at stores, which is a very bad practice. To be clear, those who are very healthy, in consultation with one's physician (you may not be healthy and other exceptions), should forego the vaccine, otherwise, those individuals will hasten the mutations if vaccinated; 2) Any mandatory policy forced upon one's body is wrong.  For those posting mask or vaccine deniers (some of the cartoons are very funny) from by-gone years should remember how our government had mandatory policies forced upon the bodies of black Americans (and white) in the early 20th century.  The government should NEVER have this power over the citizenry.  Vaccination should be a decision between the patient and his doctor only, not the government and the patient.  One size fits all is a very, very bad policy.

Personally, I am not vaxed, nor will I be.  Not only am I very healthy, but also have a very simple health practice which attenuates the virus locally (also disrupts mRNA transcription) and thereby allows me to be safely exposed to ALL the antigens to which I develop antibodies, no matter which variant we may be experiencing. The current vaccine is for the alpha antigen only and we are now on our 14th variant (I think, could be more by now).  Boosters may be a moot approach and instead require a total reworking of the vaccine because of the mutations of the extreme virulence and infectiousness of COVID-19.  Thank you Wuhan and Dr. Fauxci for your contribution to "science" in up-regulating a coronavirus.  You succeeded.

To achieve herd immunity faster, the virus should be allowed to spread among the healthy (in consultation with one's physician), but the unhealthy should be protected by vaccination (in consultation with one's physician).  Mass vaccination of the healthy only deters this essential, natural process. The virus will diminish itself if allowed to do so, just as wildfires do with the aid of hotshots (the equivalent of the vaccination).  Because of the mass hysteria about COVID-19, this concept is moot now, shouldn't be, but it is.

One last note, if you are a healthcare worker who works in a close-quarter environment, then you MUST be vaccinated, healthy or not.  You are overexposed to the virus.  There are other exceptions, but my post is too long.  Confer with your physician.

 

Thanks for this write up. Good information!! 
 

I have a heart condition, got vaxxed and it complicated it. (Must be my luck, lol.) I have also had the virus before and after the vaccine. So I’ve got that going for me as well. 

[SLAG-91 1,483]

1 hour ago, Elephant Tipper said:

I'm pro vax, but not mass vax for two reasons: 1) The issue not discussed about mandatory, mass vaccination is that implementing such a policy hastens the demise of the the current vaccine because the practice forces a premature mutation of the virus and actually weakens the efficacy of your vaccination faster.  This should concern those of you who have compromising health conditions.  No, your vaccination isn't expiring next month, but vaccinations should last a longer period than projected with the current forms.   Due to the extreme nature of COVID-19, in virulence, infectiousness and mutation, only those whose health is compromised should be vaccinated (with physician consultation), otherwise, the vaccine becomes overexposed when given to the healthy.  Can't believe that we have these walk-ups at stores, which is a very bad practice. To be clear, those who are very healthy, in consultation with one's physician (you may not be healthy and other exceptions), should forego the vaccine, otherwise, those individuals will hasten the mutations if vaccinated; 2) Any mandatory policy forced upon one's body is wrong.  For those posting mask or vaccine deniers (some of the cartoons are very funny) from by-gone years should remember how our government had mandatory policies forced upon the bodies of black Americans (and white) in the early 20th century.  The government should NEVER have this power over the citizenry.  Vaccination should be a decision between the patient and his doctor only, not the government and the patient.  One size fits all is a very, very bad policy.

Personally, I am not vaxed, nor will I be.  Not only am I very healthy, but also have a very simple health practice which attenuates the virus locally (also disrupts mRNA transcription) and thereby allows me to be safely exposed to ALL the antigens to which I develop antibodies, no matter which variant we may be experiencing. The current vaccine is for the alpha antigen only and we are now on our 14th variant (I think, could be more by now).  Boosters may be a moot approach and instead require a total reworking of the vaccine because of the mutations of the extreme virulence and infectiousness of COVID-19.  Thank you Wuhan and Dr. Fauxci for your contribution to "science" in up-regulating a coronavirus.  You succeeded.

To achieve herd immunity faster, the virus should be allowed to spread among the healthy (in consultation with one's physician), but the unhealthy should be protected by vaccination (in consultation with one's physician).  Mass vaccination of the healthy only deters this essential, natural process. The virus will diminish itself if allowed to do so, just as wildfires do with the aid of hotshots (the equivalent of the vaccination).  Because of the mass hysteria about COVID-19, this concept is moot now, shouldn't be, but it is.

One last note, if you are a healthcare worker who works in a close-quarter environment, then you MUST be vaccinated, healthy or not.  You are overexposed to the virus.  There are other exceptions, but my post is too long.  Confer with your physician.

 

I regret that I have but one "Like" to give to this post.

[AU9377 4,908]

[SaltyTiger 7,761]

2 hours ago, Elephant Tipper said:

To be clear, those who are very healthy, in consultation with one's physician (you may not be healthy and other exceptions), should forego the vaccine

And few physicians are going to recommend “forego”. Do you understand what it takes for a doctor to guarantee a person they are very healthy? 

[Elephant Tipper 430]

15 minutes ago, SaltyTiger said:

And few physicians are going to recommend “forego”. Do you understand what it takes for a doctor to guarantee a person they are very healthy? 

Perhaps you overlooked this in my comments. Because of the mass hysteria about COVID-19, this concept is moot now, shouldn't be, but it is.

I wholeheartedly agree with you, but prior to 2020, a physician would feel free to give approval to the healthiest in declining the vaccine.  In the news, not sure if true, our Navy SEALS are being forced to be vaccinated or face expulsion, which may bring exit visas to many, voluntarily or otherwise.  We'll see what happens.  Forcing the vaccine on SEALS is ridiculous.  This is the result of politics, not science.

The current climate makes the public think that COVID-19 is as debilitating/lethal as ebola which is untrue.  It isn't, especially among the healthy, but the fear mongers have created their niche in the news.  Those who are healthy face infinitesimal or no risk from the disease.

[SLAG-91 1,483]

38 minutes ago, Elephant Tipper said:

Perhaps you overlooked this in my comments. Because of the mass hysteria about COVID-19, this concept is moot now, shouldn't be, but it is.

I wholeheartedly agree with you, but prior to 2020, a physician would feel free to give approval to the healthiest in declining the vaccine.  In the news, not sure if true, our Navy SEALS are being forced to be vaccinated or face expulsion, which may bring exit visas to many, voluntarily or otherwise.  We'll see what happens.  Forcing the vaccine on SEALS is ridiculous.  This is the result of politics, not science.

The current climate makes the public think that COVID-19 is as debilitating/lethal as ebola which is untrue.  It isn't, especially among the healthy, but the fear mongers have created their niche in the news.  Those who are healthy face infinitesimal or no risk from the disease.

You, sir, are not clutching your pearls tightly enough. I'm prescribing 4 hours of nonstop CNN, with your eyelids opened a la this poor dude in A Clockwork Orange.