COVID treatment is ONLY for unvaccinated!

[TitanTiger 20,472]

Just now, wdefromtx said:

I will trust a doctor over some random guy on a message board.........

The "random guy on the message board" isn't pulling this out of his ass.  He's just repeating the overwhelming consensus of doctors (not just one doctor or a small handful of outliers), immunologists, infectious disease experts, and scientists.  This isn't my opinion, I'm just acting as a relay of information from the world of actual knowledge to you and others giving credence to bad information.

[homersapien 11,361]

1 hour ago, wdefromtx said:

His messaging works just fine. The more you try to force something on people the more they will reject it. Which is all we hear..............perhaps lightening the tone will help persuade some. Maybe it will, maybe it won't. But there is nothing wrong about what he said.................

 

While acknowledging the importance of COVID-19 vaccines, he says that folks should be able to make their own decisions.

“It’s been treated almost like a religion, it’s just senseless there are lots of good pathways to health, vaccination is not the only one,” says Dr. Ladapo. “We support measures for good health, vaccination, losing weight, eating more fruits and vegetables.”

You betcha. 

If we only tried to gently persuade these people who are convinced Trump did not win the last election and that 1/6 wasn't an effort to steal it, they'll change their minds. 

All they need is to be educated to the facts.

Edited September 22, 2021 by homersapien

[wdefromtx 3,159]

3 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

The "random guy on the message board" isn't pulling this out of his ass.  He's just repeating the overwhelming consensus of doctors (not just one doctor or a small handful of outliers), immunologists, infectious disease experts, and scientists.  This isn't my opinion, I'm just acting as a relay of information from the world of actual knowledge to you and others giving credence to bad information.

 

What bad information is that? 

The vaccine isn't for everyone, given the choice I wouldn't get the vaccine again due to the issues it has caused me. Which they touted it was safe for heart patients........that was the overwhelming consensus of doctors too. 

People have good reason to have concerns about the vaccine. The vaccine while less of a risk to the actual virus is still a risk. Other's have no right to minimize other people's concerns. It is up to them to weigh the risks. 

[homersapien 11,361]

24 minutes ago, wdefromtx said:

His messaging works just fine. The more you try to force something on people the more they will reject it. Which is all we hear..............perhaps lightening the tone will help persuade some. Maybe it will, maybe it won't. But there is nothing wrong about what he said.................

 

While acknowledging the importance of COVID-19 vaccines, he says that folks should be able to make their own decisions.

“It’s been treated almost like a religion, it’s just senseless there are lots of good pathways to health, vaccination is not the only one,” says Dr. Ladapo. “We support measures for good health, vaccination, losing weight, eating more fruits and vegetables.”

It's not religion, it's science.  Specifically, epidemiology.

 

[homersapien 11,361]

 

I'm not going to inject something into my body that only has "emergency" approval.

[homersapien 11,361]

19 minutes ago, wdefromtx said:

I will trust a doctor over some random guy on a message board.........

Just any doctor?  Really?

I sincerely don't believe you are that naive.  This guy is more of a politician than he is a doctor.  That's exactly why he got the job.

Edited September 22, 2021 by homersapien

[Leftfield 2,593]

22 minutes ago, wdefromtx said:

I will trust a doctor over some random guy on a message board.........

Unless it's a doctor you disagree with, of course.

Edited September 22, 2021 by Leftfield

[wdefromtx 3,159]

5 minutes ago, homersapien said:

Just any doctor?  Really?

I sincerely don't believe you are that naive.  This guy is more of a politician than he is a doctor.  That's exactly why he got the job.

I don't see anything wrong with what he is saying. He isn't just saying it how Titan wants him to say it. 

Do I think vaccines are the answer to stopping this? Yes.  Do I think they are 100% safe? No, because they aren't.  No vaccine or drug is. Do the benefits outweigh the adverse effects? That is debatable. What are chances of adverse effects? 0%, 1%? Hence the personal choice. Even the other vaccines have waivers these days. 

[Leftfield 2,593]

5 minutes ago, wdefromtx said:

I don't see anything wrong with what he is saying. He isn't just saying it how Titan wants him to say it. 

Do I think vaccines are the answer to stopping this? Yes.  Do I think they are 100% safe? No, because they aren't.  No vaccine or drug is. Do the benefits outweigh the adverse effects? That is debatable. What are chances of adverse effects? 0%, 1%? Hence the personal choice. Even the other vaccines have waivers these days. 

No one here is is pushing vaccines on anyone that has a legitimate medical reason it could endanger them. For the majority of society, certainly enough to achieve an acceptable level of "herd immunity", the vaccine is without doubt the better option.

[wdefromtx 3,159]

1 minute ago, Leftfield said:

No one here is intentionally pushing vaccines on anyone that has a legitimate medical reason it could endanger them. For the majority of society, certainly enough to achieve an acceptable level of "herd immunity", the vaccine is without doubt the better option.

Fixed it for you....but there still is risk even when they say the side effects outweigh the benefits......that always sounds great until it isn't. 

[Leftfield 2,593]

6 minutes ago, wdefromtx said:

Fixed it for you....but there still is risk even when they say the side effects outweigh the benefits......that always sounds great until it isn't. 

What are you talking about? How are we in any way pushing vaccines on those with medical conditions, even unintentionally.

Of course there would be a risk if the side effects outweighed the benefits, but for the general population that's not the case. Yes, unfortunately there will be some that will be adversely affected, but not as many as the continuation of the pandemic will affect.

[homersapien 11,361]

29 minutes ago, wdefromtx said:

I don't see anything wrong with what he is saying. He isn't just saying it how Titan wants him to say it. 

Do I think vaccines are the answer to stopping this? Yes.  Do I think they are 100% safe? No, because they aren't.  No vaccine or drug is. Do the benefits outweigh the adverse effects? That is debatable. What are chances of adverse effects? 0%, 1%? Hence the personal choice. Even the other vaccines have waivers these days. 

I don't think you really understand the problem.

Vaccines are the only way to control a pandemic.  As for "personal choice", it didn't work for the smallpox pandemic and it won't work for this one.

Any  doctor who handles this the way this guy is handling it (by his statements) is either incompetent or a political sociopath. 

 

Edited September 22, 2021 by homersapien

[homersapien 11,361]

1 hour ago, wdefromtx said:

Fixed it for you....but there still is risk even when they say the side effects outweigh the benefits......that always sounds great until it isn't. 

Apparently, you are not well acquainted with statistical risk either. 

Personal risk is dealt with by consulting a (competent) personal doctor.  Statistical risk is exactly why everyone should get vaccinated.  You seem to be totally focused on the former instead of the risk to society (everyone else).

And the statistical risk of side effects - assuming you don't have a medical condition - are  outweighed by the risks of getting the virus.

Edited September 22, 2021 by homersapien

[TitanTiger 20,472]

24 minutes ago, wdefromtx said:

I don't see anything wrong with what he is saying. He isn't just saying it how Titan wants him to say it. 

It's because what he's saying and what I'm saying (by which I mean, the overwhelming consensus of doctors, epidemiologists, etc.) are two different things.

 

24 minutes ago, wdefromtx said:

Do I think vaccines are the answer to stopping this? Yes.  Do I think they are 100% safe? No, because they aren't.  No vaccine or drug is.

This is a straw man.  No one has made such a claim.

 

24 minutes ago, wdefromtx said:

Do the benefits outweigh the adverse effects? That is debatable.

No, it isn't.  Like, not even close.

 

24 minutes ago, wdefromtx said:

What are chances of adverse effects? 0%, 1%? Hence the personal choice. Even the other vaccines have waivers these days. 

No where near 1%.

Even if you took the number of reported adverse effects from VAERS and made the crazy ass assumption that every single one of them were actually caused by the vaccines (in reality, an infinitesimally small fraction of reported cases end up being actually attributed to the vaccines), you wouldn't be in the neighborhood of 1%.

The most recent numbers of adverse event reports at VAERS is around 425,000.  We've given out over 386 million doses in the US.  That adds up to right at 0.1%. One tenth of a percent.  And again, VAERS numbers are not real.  It's designed just to gather as many reports of any issues that happened around the time a person got vaccinated.  But as we know, correlation ≠ causation.  When cases like this are dug into deeper, the numbers of cases that can be reasonably deemed "probable" as caused by the vaccine are much, much smaller.  Typically by an order of magnitude.  In the end you might have just a few thousand cases that might reasonably be attributed to the vaccines, representing something like 0.0000002% of the doses given out.  And that just all adverse effects, no matter how serious they are.  It could be something as mild as a fever and body aches included.

But even just looking at deaths, the number coming from VAERS where someone died shortly after getting vaccinated (for any reason) is around 7500 people.  The math is indisputable when you compare them, even if you accepted that 7500 number as gospel (which it isn't).  7500 out of 386 million doses administered vs 670,000 deaths out of 42 million confirmed COVID cases.  This ain't advanced calculus.

Then there are the benefits.  Take a look at any ICU over the last month or so.  Alabama and states like them were consistently in the negative in number of ICU beds.  And consistently, over half the patients there were because of COVID.  Of those covid patients, the ratio of unvaccinated to vaccinated ran 7 or 8 to 1 most weeks.  In terms of deaths, over 95% of those dying were unvaccinated.

Any way you slice it, the risk of the vaccines is lower (because again, there is not such thing as "no risk" here) and the benefits are greater.  That's data, not anecdote and not opinion.

 

  

[AU9377 4,924]

2 hours ago, I_M4_AU said:

The new Florida Surgeon General disagrees with you about the vaccine and he is not an ignorant man.

I know way too many smart people that are otherwise dumb asses.  He attempts to thread a needle to please DeSantis and get the advancement that comes with that, while also not claiming that people should not be vaccinated.  Just what Florida needs... more confusion that will lead to more deaths.

Edited September 22, 2021 by AU9377

[TitanTiger 20,472]

34 minutes ago, wdefromtx said:

Fixed it for you....but there still is risk even when they say the side effects outweigh the benefits......that always sounds great until it isn't. 

This is irrational fear talking.  Even for you.  Myocarditis is also a side effect of catching COVID, except it happens more than 6 times as much as happens from the available vaccines.

The benefits overwhelmingly outweigh the risks.  Full stop.

Nothing is zero risk.  The odds are clearly in favor of the vaccines.

[homersapien 11,361]

1 hour ago, wdefromtx said:

 

What bad information is that? 

The vaccine isn't for everyone, given the choice I wouldn't get the vaccine again due to the issues it has caused me. Which they touted it was safe for heart patients........that was the overwhelming consensus of doctors too. 

People have good reason to have concerns about the vaccine. The vaccine while less of a risk to the actual virus is still a risk. Other's have no right to minimize other people's concerns. It is up to them to weigh the risks. 

Was this a pre condition? 

Did you talk specifically to your doctor about it?

One of the things covid causes is myocarditis:

 https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7035e5.htm  

What makes you so sure that covid wouldn't have killed you?  Vaccination might have saved your life.

 

Edited September 22, 2021 by homersapien

[AU9377 4,924]

1 hour ago, wdefromtx said:

I will trust a doctor over some random guy on a message board.........

The bizarre thing is that you trust only those that tell you what you want to hear.  You trust him over Dr. Fauci.  How many people around the world do you think would do that, given their experience and qualifications?

[wdefromtx 3,159]

51 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

It's because what he's saying and what I'm saying (by which I mean, the overwhelming consensus of doctors, epidemiologists, etc.) are two different things.

 

This is a straw man.  No one has made such a claim.

 

No, it isn't.  Like, not even close.

 

No where near 1%.

Even if you took the number of reported adverse effects from VAERS and made the crazy ass assumption that every single one of them were actually caused by the vaccines (in reality, an infinitesimally small fraction of reported cases end up being actually attributed to the vaccines), you wouldn't be in the neighborhood of 1%.

The most recent numbers of adverse event reports at VAERS is around 425,000.  We've given out over 386 million doses in the US.  That adds up to right at 0.1%. One tenth of a percent.  And again, VAERS numbers are not real.  It's designed just to gather as many reports of any issues that happened around the time a person got vaccinated.  But as we know, correlation ≠ causation.  When cases like this are dug into deeper, the numbers of cases that can be reasonably deemed "probable" as caused by the vaccine are much, much smaller.  Typically by an order of magnitude.  In the end you might have just a few thousand cases that might reasonably be attributed to the vaccines, representing something like 0.0000002% of the doses given out.  And that just all adverse effects, no matter how serious they are.  It could be something as mild as a fever and body aches included.

But even just looking at deaths, the number coming from VAERS where someone died shortly after getting vaccinated (for any reason) is around 7500 people.  The math is indisputable when you compare them, even if you accepted that 7500 number as gospel (which it isn't).  7500 out of 386 million doses administered vs 670,000 deaths out of 42 million confirmed COVID cases.  This ain't advanced calculus.

Then there are the benefits.  Take a look at any ICU over the last month or so.  Alabama and states like them were consistently in the negative in number of ICU beds.  And consistently, over half the patients there were because of COVID.  Of those covid patients, the ratio of unvaccinated to vaccinated ran 7 or 8 to 1 most weeks.  In terms of deaths, over 95% of those dying were unvaccinated.

Any way you slice it, the risk of the vaccines is lower (because again, there is not such thing as "no risk" here) and the benefits are greater.  That's data, not anecdote and not opinion.

 

  

Yet, I am one of those VAERS cases. Given a mulligan, I wouldn’t get the vaccine. I got it on the advice that the benefit was greater than the risk and that being a heart patient it was advised I get it…..it caused more heart issues. 
 

 

And it didn’t even stop me from getting the virus the second time. So pardon me, if I feel like it should be a personal choice and not mandated. Because if it were mandated I would have to get it because my medical condition isn’t necessarily one they say shouldn’t get it. Eventhough the CDC recognizes there is a link.

[wdefromtx 3,159]

34 minutes ago, AU9377 said:

The bizarre thing is that you trust only those that tell you what you want to hear.  You trust him over Dr. Fauci.  How many people around the world do you think would do that, given their experience and qualifications?

I trust Fauci, I just don’t think the vaccine should be mandated. It’s really that simple. 

[TitanTiger 20,472]

2 minutes ago, wdefromtx said:

Yet, I am one of those VAERS cases. Given a mulligan, I wouldn’t get the vaccine. I got it on the advice that the benefit was greater than the risk and that being a heart patient it was advised I get it…..it caused more heart issues. 
 

 

And it didn’t even stop me from getting the virus the second time. So pardon me, if I feel like it should be a personal choice and not mandated. Because if it were mandated I would have to get it because my medical condition isn’t necessarily one they say shouldn’t get it. Eventhough the CDC recognizes there is a link.

You keep using this word "mandated" when no one here has actually been advocating for such a thing.  We have been advocating for a surgeon general not to downplay the importance of the vaccines by lumping it in with stuff like "eat your veggies" and to encourage people to get it.  

Like homer said, with your condition, COVID well could have killed you without the vaccine.  The data suggests you're 6x more likely to develop myocarditis from getting COVID than from any of the vaccines.  

[AU9377 4,924]

1 minute ago, wdefromtx said:

I trust Fauci, I just don’t think the vaccine should be mandated. It’s really that simple. 

Medical exemptions make sense.  There really is no overall mandate now that does not include those exemptions.

[wdefromtx 3,159]

35 minutes ago, homersapien said:

Was this a pre condition? 

Did you talk specifically to your doctor about it?

One of the things covid causes is myocarditis:

 https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7035e5.htm  

What makes you so sure that covid wouldn't have killed you?  Vaccination might have saved your life.

 

I have an ejection fraction of 35% due to a widow maker heart attack I had at the end of 2019. Essentially the whole front wall muscle of my heart is all dead. 
 

Had Covid last summer and did fine. 
 

After getting the vaccine dang near ended up in the hospital due to congestive heart failure due to losing more heart function from Myocarditis after the vaccine. Which I started showing complications shortly after the vaccine, but I didn’t really connect the dots until my cardiologist did. I have improved as far as that goes, but still not to how I was before the vaccine. Which when I had Covid in August I am pretty sure things made it harder to recover from compared to the first time. Maybe it helped, but my reference point is skewed since the first bout was easier. 

[TitanTiger 20,472]

11 minutes ago, wdefromtx said:

Yet, I am one of those VAERS cases. Given a mulligan, I wouldn’t get the vaccine. I got it on the advice that the benefit was greater than the risk and that being a heart patient it was advised I get it…..it caused more heart issues. 

And it didn’t even stop me from getting the virus the second time. So pardon me, if I feel like it should be a personal choice and not mandated. Because if it were mandated I would have to get it because my medical condition isn’t necessarily one they say shouldn’t get it. Eventhough the CDC recognizes there is a link.

Also, this is akin to saying that because you know this one dude who died because they put seatbelt on and couldn't get it undone and died in a car fire after a traffic accident that we shouldn't encourage people to wear seatbelts, much less have laws about them.

We don't make health and safety recommendations based on an anecdote here or there.  We make them based on data drawn from hundreds of thousands or millions upon millions of cases.  

Seatbelts save exponentially more lives than they ever cause death or serious injury.

So do the vaccines.

[wdefromtx 3,159]

9 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

You keep using this word "mandated" when no one here has actually been advocating for such a thing.  We have been advocating for a surgeon general not to downplay the importance of the vaccines by lumping it in with stuff like "eat your veggies" and to encourage people to get it.  

Like homer said, with your condition, COVID well could have killed you without the vaccine.  The data suggests you're 6x more likely to develop myocarditis from getting COVID than from any of the vaccines.  

There has been talk on this board wanting a mandate. I’ve never said I’m against the vaccine other than it should not be mandated. 
 

Maybe it’s saved me, but it damn near killed me before I caught Covid the second time.