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WR coach Cornelius Williams fired


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3 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

Except you started all this by calling someone else's very reasonable assumption into question while propping up your own as superior. You should own that.

I didn't start anything.  The thread is ******* 37 pages long.  I came in somewhere around page 30.  The debate over whether his assumptions were reasonable was already well underway.  I just chimed in.  But after several rounds of hearing the other side and trying to articulate why I believe what I believe about the situation, I don't really either side moving toward the other's position on the matter so I'm bowing out.  I gots other things to do.

 

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1 minute ago, tgrogan21 said:

Should have clarified that I'm curious about how he'll do with assignments and rotations since apparently Harsin gives the assistants full control over rotations I want to see if Robertson will play this week. I want to see if Canion and Capers will be coming off the bench. But yeah, most important thing for improvement as far as production will come from QB. I just hope that Finley is gonna get the start so we can give him the chance he deserves to get in rhythm with these receivers.

I actually wanted to talk to somebody about the rotation stuff. Do you buy that it's not Harsin's call on who starts?

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4 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

I didn't start anything.  The thread is ******* 37 pages long.  I came in somewhere around page 30.  The debate over whether his assumptions were reasonable was already well underway.  I just chimed in.  But after several rounds of hearing the other side and trying to articulate why I believe what I believe about the situation, I don't really either side moving toward the other's position on the matter so I'm bowing out.  I gots other things to do.

 

I sometimes don't think you all (mods/administration) realize your influence. Have a good day

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5 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

I didn't start anything.  The thread is ******* 37 pages long.  I came in somewhere around page 30.  The debate over whether his assumptions were reasonable was already well underway.  I just chimed in.  But after several rounds of hearing the other side and trying to articulate why I believe what I believe about the situation, I don't really either side moving toward the other's position on the matter so I'm bowing out.  I gots other things to do.

You straight up tried to tell Cole his opinion was invalid. 

Nobody tried to tell you yours was. 

Enjoy getting things done. 

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5 minutes ago, cole256 said:

I actually wanted to talk to somebody about the rotation stuff. Do you buy that it's not Harsin's call on who starts?

I dunno, tbh. At first I thought there was no way  a detail oriented guy like Harsin would give a young coach full control over it. However, from many different people I've heard that that is the case. At the same time, he's at practice and he knows how these players perform so he should be the one that gets final say. If he didn't like the rotation he could have easily stepped and made the change. And he didn't until this game. Early in the game Canion and Capers were both getting open but Bo couldn't make the pass.

In the 4th quarter with a new QB they were both still getting open the only change was that Finley was more accurate.

Either way, the blame shouldn't be 100% on Corn for rotation since you have a coach who should realize if the right person isn't playing.

Edit: Just to add, I know it's not a huge sample size for Canion and he is my man crush so I may be biased but the kid hasn't dropped one pass thrown his way. The little bit he gets in the game he seems to get open. I still find it absolutely insane he wasn't starting. So that's on either Corn or Harsin as to why he wasn't out there more.

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I'm definitely supportive of Harsin delegating instead of micromanaging. I mean, I guess firing the dude could be considered a form of micromanagement, lol, but I'm okay with him trusting his assistants to do important things. That can only help them in future career stops.

And that would help explain him wanting guys he can trust around him, especially early on in his tenure here. Maybe in a couple years we get to a point where his position coaches are moving on to coordinator jobs and he's better able to fit new guys into an established culture and staff. 

My biggest concern is recruiting and that was where Williams was likely most valuable to us and perhaps more valuable than most other guys on staff. Of course, we've also got to show that we can develop guys and get them drafted.

We'll see.

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8 minutes ago, tgrogan21 said:

I dunno, tbh. At first I thought there was no way  a detail oriented guy like Harsin would give a young coach full control over it. However, from many different people I've heard that that is the case. At the same time, he's at practice and he knows how these players perform so he should be the one that gets final say. If he didn't like the rotation he could have easily stepped and made the change. And he didn't until this game. Early in the game Canion and Capers were both getting open but Bo couldn't make the pass.

In the 4th quarter with a new QB they were both still getting open the only change was that Finley was more accurate.

Either way, the blame shouldn't be 100% on Corn for rotation since you have a coach who should realize if the right person isn't playing.

Edit: Just to add, I know it's not a huge sample size for Canion and he is my man crush so I may be biased but the kid hasn't dropped one pass thrown his way. The little bit he gets in the game he seems to get open. I still find it absolutely insane he wasn't starting. So that's on either Corn or Harsin as to why he wasn't out there more.

That's where I'm at. There's no way you watch a guy kill it and see another guy be so so and not do anything. Either the back ups haven't practiced well or you are just playing who you want or everybody is mediocre. 

But that freaking 4th down play....you're making a conscious decision on who you are playing. No debate. That's not on the wr coach at all. That's the OC and HC period. 

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Yes. If he wanted his guy that's fine, but damn you should've hired him in the first place. But I find it messed up how guys can come in with good records and reputations get railroaded and every rumor is ran with and everybody is fine with it. 

That's if he didn't do anything. If he did that's on him but say for instance this insubordination thing. If he didn't do that (I don't know) it's messed up to ruin his reputation

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6 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

I'm definitely supportive of Harsin delegating instead of micromanaging. I mean, I guess firing the dude could be considered a form of micromanagement, lol, but I'm okay with him trusting his assistants to do important things. That can only help them in future career stops.

And that would help explain him wanting guys he can trust around him, especially early on in his tenure here. Maybe in a couple years we get to a point where his position coaches are moving on to coordinator jobs and he's better able to fit new guys into an established culture and staff. 

My biggest concern is recruiting and that was where Williams was likely most valuable to us and perhaps more valuable than most other guys on staff. Of course, we've also got to show that we can develop guys and get them drafted.

We'll see.

I'm fine with him delegating as well since I think that's a complete change from Gus. I still think that if you see something that's off, though, you need to step in and take more control in it. If the receivers have been so bad all throughout spring, summer, and now into the games why hasn't he stepped up more to help out? You can't acknowledge something is bad for multiple weeks, not do anything, and then get upset that things didn't get better.

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So I'm reading elsewhere that possibly Robertson has a hamstring issue and that's why he didn't play Saturday.  No idea if it's true.

Also, Newton played 2 snaps and one of those was when he was waived onto the field on the final drive.  Seems like an odd time for him to go in for his 2nd play

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1 minute ago, W.E.D said:

So I'm reading elsewhere that possibly Robertson has a hamstring issue and that's why he didn't play Saturday.  No idea if it's true.

Also, Newton played 2 snaps and one of those was when he was waived onto the field on the final drive.  Seems like an odd time for him to go in for his 2nd play

Makes sense for him to be like oh s*** me? Though. 

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6 minutes ago, cole256 said:

That's where I'm at. There's no way you watch a guy kill it and see another guy be so so and not do anything. Either the back ups haven't practiced well or you are just playing who you want or everybody is mediocre. 

But that freaking 4th down play....you're making a conscious decision on who you are playing. No debate. That's not on the wr coach at all. That's the OC and HC period. 

Has anything negative ever came out about Canion during spring and summer practices? If it has I haven't seen it and searching on twitter almost everyone was surprised he wasn't #1 on the depth chart. I saw some people say he got hurt during camp but there's been no confirmation other than random people on Twitter. Maybe he's not practicing well or picking up the playbook fast enough but the WR rotation has been needed to change since Penn State and Canion didn't even play in that game.

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2 minutes ago, cole256 said:

Makes sense for him to be like oh s*** me? Though. 

It does, why was he the one being told to go on though?  Lots of this doesn't make sense

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3 minutes ago, tgrogan21 said:

Has anything negative ever came out about Canion during spring and summer practices? If it has I haven't seen it and searching on twitter almost everyone was surprised he wasn't #1 on the depth chart. I saw some people say he got hurt during camp but there's been no confirmation other than random people on Twitter. Maybe he's not practicing well or picking up the playbook fast enough but the WR rotation has been needed to change since Penn State and Canion didn't even play in that game.

I think I read an awesome article on how well he was doing over the summer. Sometimes I get him and capers mixed up though but I believe it was him. It was him that made that awesome toe drag though wasn't it? That would've been a catch in the NFL as well

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6 minutes ago, W.E.D said:

So I'm reading elsewhere that possibly Robertson has a hamstring issue and that's why he didn't play Saturday.  No idea if it's true.

Also, Newton played 2 snaps and one of those was when he was waived onto the field on the final drive.  Seems like an odd time for him to go in for his 2nd play

I think I remember someone posted  that Newton was not supposed to be in,  and noticed we needed someone quickly,  so he run out there.   No Idea if it is true or not tho.

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2 minutes ago, W.E.D said:

It does, why was he the one being told to go on though?  Lots of this doesn't make sense

Was it 5 wide? I don't know. If the other guy is out. Then you have Jackson, kobe, canion, capers......But you'd still have Johnson. Maybe somebody was having a cramp or something. That's a hard thing to hang on the wr coach.....of course Newton wasn't ready. It's literally like Willie beaman on any given Sunday lol. I'm happy he didn't have his helmet off eating some chips 😂

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5 minutes ago, tgrogan21 said:

I'm fine with him delegating as well since I think that's a complete change from Gus. I still think that if you see something that's off, though, you need to step in and take more control in it. If the receivers have been so bad all throughout spring, summer, and now into the games why hasn't he stepped up more to help out? You can't acknowledge something is bad for multiple weeks, not do anything, and then get upset that things didn't get better.

As I vacillate between "Harsin problem" and "understandable Harsin challenge", I can see where maybe this is the kind of WTH moment that happens very early on in a guy's tenure but not a year or two into it. I can imagine that moving from Idaho to Alabama, inheriting a program that was run by Malzahn for 8 years and Gene Chizik for 4 years before that, working under an AD who has only been around a couple years and who already has one foot out the door, hiring a bunch of new people including a DC who is making major changes to the scheme, working with a new OC who may or may not be prone to major in-game brain farts, and no clear cut quality at QB.....

....yeah, I can see where he might need a guy who can handle full autonomy with the receivers. 

Like I said... I'm vacillating here and this is the part where my glass is suddenly half full. But looking at it that way, it makes sense even if Williams got done wrong. (And I think he did, even if it is ultimately best for the players.)

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3 minutes ago, Quietmaninthecorner said:

I think I remember someone posted  that Newton was not supposed to be in,  and noticed we needed someone quickly,  so he run out there.   No Idea if it is true or not tho.

Ok then maybe somebody who should've been ready wasn't like Johnson or whoever... I could see that too

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3 minutes ago, cole256 said:

I think I read an awesome article on how well he was doing over the summer. Sometimes I get him and capers mixed up though but I believe it was him. It was him that made that awesome toe drag though wasn't it? That would've been a catch in the NFL as well

https://247sports.com/college/auburn/Article/elijah-canion-auburn-tigers-football-2021-wide-receivers-transfer-kobe-hudson-javarrius-johnson-shedrick-jackson--165710961/

Wonder if this was the article you were talking about. And yeah, if I'm not mistaken it was Canion on the 2nd down play on the TD drive that he had the nice catch by sideline.

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1 hour ago, cole256 said:

And let's be real....You guys really think we're talented at wr? Come on man. Hoover high school in their prime had more talent

 I think Hudson is turning into a very talented WR.

His hands are good, he catches the ball out front consistently.

He adjusts well to the ball thrown to him(The seam pass by Bo to Hudson's back shoulder in the Penn St game).

He has very good speed and quickness.

I think we COULD have better WR talent, but Bo doesn't allow them to make those plays when Bo throws it behind them, over them, or in front of them on a too consistent basis). Some of them we don't know yet such as the Johnson WRs.

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Just now, tgrogan21 said:

https://247sports.com/college/auburn/Article/elijah-canion-auburn-tigers-football-2021-wide-receivers-transfer-kobe-hudson-javarrius-johnson-shedrick-jackson--165710961/

Wonder if this was the article you were talking about. And yeah, if I'm not mistaken it was Canion on the 2nd down play on the TD drive that he had the nice catch by sideline.

Yeah that's it. Working out with Beckham. I feel like if you are even practicing around Odell you'd have to be an amazing athlete. Him and capers are literally my hope for the wr's. I was pissed the kid from Texas left us

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1 minute ago, steeleagle said:

 I think Hudson is turning into a very talented WR.

His hands are good, he catches the ball out front consistently.

He adjusts well to the ball thrown to him(The seam pass by Bo to Hudson's back shoulder in the Penn St game).

He has very good speed and quickness.

I think we COULD have better WR talent, but Bo doesn't allow them to make those plays when Bo throws it behind them, over them, or in front of them on a too consistent basis). Some of them we don't know yet such as the Johnson WRs.

You're right. I forget kobe at times because I'm so focused on canion and capers think

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3 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

As I vacillate between "Harsin problem" and "understandable Harsin challenge", I can see where maybe this is the kind of WTH moment that happens very early on in a guy's tenure but not a year or two into it. I can imagine that moving from Idaho to Alabama, inheriting a program that was run by Malzahn for 8 years and Gene Chizik for 4 years before that, working under an AD who has only been around a couple years and who already has one foot out the door, hiring a bunch of new people including a DC who is making major changes to the scheme, working with a new OC who may or may not be prone to major in-game brain farts, and no clear cut quality at QB.....

....yeah, I can see where he might need a guy who can handle full autonomy with the receivers. 

Like I said... I'm vacillating here and this is the part where my glass is suddenly half full. But looking at it that way, it makes sense even if Williams got done wrong. (And I think he did, even if it is ultimately best for the players.)

Ok, I'll bite. Why do u think Williams was done wrong? bc of when it was and or the reasons for firing him? Or at Auburn we don't fire coaches during the season?

 

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8 minutes ago, Quietmaninthecorner said:

I think I remember someone posted  that Newton was not supposed to be in,  and noticed we needed someone quickly,  so he run out there.   No Idea if it is true or not tho.

A heads-up play by Newton for sure. 

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44 minutes ago, TJRanger175 said:

Based on what I have heard from interviews and podcasts, the following seems like it is the most likely scenario:

1.       Harsin wants his OC (Eric Kiesau) to follow him but Kiesau wanted to see if he would either be in contention for the HC or OC position in Boise (I can understand this- moving is horrible and why take a demotion when you can be the guy calling plays).

2.       When neither position materialized, Kiesau joined the staff in February as an analyst (after all the positions had been filled).

3.       A few other WR coaches did not pan out so Harsin hired a talented young receivers coach (C-Will) that had a history of coaching productive WR’s and had a great reputation among high school coaches in the SE.

4.       C-Will served as WR coach for two no-huddle spread offensive “Guru’s” (Neal Brown and Chip Lindsey).

5.       The two offenses, while a little more sophisticated than Malzahn’s offense, are no where near as sophisticated as the multiple pro set offenses employed by Harsin/Bobo.

6.       It is a distinct possibility that C-Will may have had issues himself adjusting to the new offense (total conjecture)

7.       What has been said is that the WR room was not held to a high enough standard for knowing the game plan week in and week out.

8.       It has also been said that the WR room was not held to a high enough standard for enforcing attention to detail when it came to specific technique.

9.       Obviously there were issues with the WR rotation during games, as well as ensuring the proper players were out there for the specific offensive packages.

10.   There has also been mention of receivers running wrong routes because they are not proficient at reading coverages.

11.   Once the problems with attention to detail became overwhelming, Harsin made the change.

It is entirely possible that while C-Will is a great guy he may have been out of his element and not ready for the jump he was being asked to make.

I think a lot of leeway may have been made just because of his reputation as a recruiter.

There is a saying- Hire slow, fire fast.

I don’t think this move happens if Kiesau is not already in Auburn.

I think the hiring may have been Harsin taking a chance on a young stud with great recruiting credentials.

I don’t think anything horrible or back handed happened.

Just a case of someone not being able to carry out their responsibilities.

Bottom Line- I don’t know if we will ever find out the real story. I certainly don’t know.

 

 

This is what I don’t get. Corn coached for like 6 seasons at Troy, right? How did he all of the sudden become    fire-ably incompetent? 

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