McElroy and Cubelic Breakdown Position Groups

[1auburn1 1,110]

They just verbalized what we (should) know to be true.    This roster is overall, MAYBE mid-SEC level and trending down.    Harsin and Co. need to find a fix for the Auburn Problem we have with recruiting O-Line real quick.     Real quick so we can have a prayer of having a decent line 2-3 yrs from now.     As fun as it was in the moment, those two big wins in 2017 really set the program back.     Lose one or both of those and the moronic extension doesn't happen.    Possibly.    Who knows?

[AU9377 4,914]

44 minutes ago, 1auburn1 said:

They just verbalized what we (should) know to be true.    This roster is overall, MAYBE mid-SEC level and trending down.    Harsin and Co. need to find a fix for the Auburn Problem we have with recruiting O-Line real quick.     Real quick so we can have a prayer of having a decent line 2-3 yrs from now.     As fun as it was in the moment, those two big wins in 2017 really set the program back.     Lose one or both of those and the moronic extension doesn't happen.    Possibly.    Who knows?

The wins didn't set anything back.  Leath should have been smarter in negotiating the contract.  Simply put, his ego got in the way.  Gus and staff recruited a lot of high level talent, but the line was always a problem.  It isn't that they didn't try to recruit linemen.  They did.  However, once a perception exists and gets used by those negatively recruiting against you, the job gets even more difficult.   Harsin and staff should have hit the transfer portal a lot harder than they did, but it is a little late to stress over that now.

As with most things in life, the truth is somewhere in the middle. Regardless of the talent on the roster, the truth remains that Gus never had a losing season.  Auburn needed a fresh perspective and it was time for a change.  However, don't forget that a portion of the last staff intentionally tanked recruiting to force a change in anticipation that Kevin Steele would get the job.  That always gets left out of the conversation.

Allen Greene went around that group and the influential boosters that backed them and hired Harsin.  He desperately needs Harsin to produce acceptable results.  If he doesn't, that same group of influential boosters will have AG thrown out along with Harsin & staff.  I want Harsin to be successful because that is what is best for Auburn. That is why Saturday was so concerning.  I hope that I am as impressed with the way the team looks Saturday in the same degree to which I was disappointed in the way they looked against Ga. State.  This team, with this same OL beat the hell out of LSU in Auburn last year.

[tomcat 569]

2 hours ago, bigbird said:

If our starter OL are so bad, why don't we play their backups?

One of the points McElroy and Cubelic made was lack of quality depth overall, but especially on OL where the backups are a greater liability than the starters.

Which of course you pointed out in a subsequent post…😊

Most of you are far more astute than I regarding Xs and Os, but it seems (I’m hoping) that other schemes might better cover OL deficiencies.

Edited September 29, 2021 by tomcat

[tomcat 569]

1 hour ago, 1auburn1 said:

They just verbalized what we (should) know to be true.    This roster is overall, MAYBE mid-SEC level and trending down.    Harsin and Co. need to find a fix for the Auburn Problem we have with recruiting O-Line real quick.     Real quick so we can have a prayer of having a decent line 2-3 yrs from now.     As fun as it was in the moment, those two big wins in 2017 really set the program back.     Lose one or both of those and the moronic extension doesn't happen.    Possibly.    Who knows?

I suppose I was drinking the koolade thinking this could be a 9 win team. Now I’m thinking this may be a long hard slog.

In another segment Cole and Greg mentioned there were still players not fully buying in to the Harsin culture. So as 1auburn1 stated this could easily be a 2-3 year project.

[1auburn1 1,110]

As Cole and Greg mentioned, you can scheme around mediocre OL play with a spread/tempo O but going more traditional as Harsin likes will require linemen to drive and hold blocks plus a lot of other things not required by spread offenses.    These will be more talented linemen than we have now, don't grow on trees, and still take a couple of years before they're SEC-ready in most cases which why the current staff needs to get on it or there may not be a year 4.

[AUFAN78 3,890]

9 hours ago, Barnacle said:

All comes back to the offensive line. 

Agree but we should add dline to that as well. Win up front and you almost always have a good shot. Lose and odds are slim.

[EastAl_Tiger 225]

5 hours ago, 1auburn1 said:

As Cole and Greg mentioned, you can scheme around mediocre OL play with a spread/tempo O but going more traditional as Harsin likes will require linemen to drive and hold blocks plus a lot of other things not required by spread offenses.    These will be more talented linemen than we have now, don't grow on trees, and still take a couple of years before they're SEC-ready in most cases which why the current staff needs to get on it or there may not be a year 4.

can't scheme around incompetence. how an Olineman would rather help out on a double team than stick a helmet on a LB coming right at him.  does he think the QB is going to pick up the LB? there's not anybody else

[BizTiger 242]

10 hours ago, Mike4AU said:

I continue to be shocked at the lack of talent that Gus left. 

I keep being told that talent doesn't matter and it's all about heart and being the right "cultural fit". Oddly, the same folks are saying Gus left a bunch of 5 stars. 

 

Edited September 30, 2021 by BizTiger

[Mikey 16,550]

11 hours ago, bigbird said:

The segment at 23:29 is what it all comes down to and it's been building for years. Cole nails it in his response at 24:18.

 

@Mikey what are your thoughts?

I don't have any thoughts on this. 20+ minute podwhatevers are not my thing.

[Mikey 16,550]

7 hours ago, 1auburn1 said:

As Cole and Greg mentioned, you can scheme around mediocre OL play with a spread/tempo O but going more traditional as Harsin likes will require linemen to drive and hold blocks plus a lot of other things not required by spread offenses.    These will be more talented linemen than we have now, don't grow on trees, and still take a couple of years before they're SEC-ready in most cases which why the current staff needs to get on it or there may not be a year 4.

There was a 75 yard, 15 play drive against Penn State. 12 of the 15 plays were runs. Don't take for granted that the O-line is all that bad.

[gr82be 14,402]

5 minutes ago, Mikey said:

There was a 75 yard, 15 play drive against Penn State. 12 of the 15 plays were runs. Don't take for granted that the O-line is all that bad.

That was my thought this morning too. That was the only thing that keeps it from being depressing. 

[Randman5000 4,224]

Maybe Zacoby gets first team defense the this year. I'm tired of Alabama dominating that position. Pappoe was missed too last week. 

Edited September 30, 2021 by Randman5000

[AU-24 3,063]

8 hours ago, Mikey said:

There was a 75 yard, 15 play drive against Penn State. 12 of the 15 plays were runs. Don't take for granted that the O-line is all that bad.

Problems: Play calling on both sides of the line of scrimmage has been atrocious at times.

The first half against Alabama State and just about the entire game against Georgia State was simply a team not prepared or well coached.

As far as talent goes; agree with some of what has already been said but do they actually think we have less talent than Alabama State, Georgia State, Ole Sis, Arkansas?? To your point: We had enough talent to beat Penn State, on the road minus playcalling, but Harsin wasn’t left any talent?

Now we have a wide receivers coach, hired by the head coach, fired by same head coach four weeks into the season?

Wondering if anyone thanks, just a little bit of our problem, might be coaching?

[tomcat 569]

51 minutes ago, AU-24 said:

Problems: Play calling on both sides of the line of scrimmage has been atrocious at times.

The first half against Alabama State and just about the entire game against Georgia State was simply a team not prepared or well coached.

As far as talent goes; agree with some of what has already been said but do they actually think we have less talent than Alabama State, Georgia State, Ole Sis, Arkansas?? To your point: We had enough talent to beat Penn State, on the road minus playcalling, but Harsin wasn’t left any talent?

Now we have a wide receivers coach, hired by the head coach, fired by same head coach four weeks into the season?

Wondering if anyone thanks, just a little bit of our problem, might be coaching?

I think this is a valid question. Cole and McElroy make it clear there are talent and depth issues. However, I’m recalling a preseason thread where one of the OL players stated, in respect to the current coaching, they had a “low football IQ.” Perhaps the new offensive and defensive schemes are more complex than the previous regime. This would result in a long(er) learning curve, perhaps exacerbated by resistance of some players.

Harsin seems to have a Saban like “my way or the highway” perspective. Now the next game I coach will be my first….I don’t know if the best approach is to modify schemes and expectations to the abilities and attitudes of current players or to stick to the Harsin “by God you will do it this way and no other way.”

I’m thinking the latter. I sense Auburn has a hangover from previous years. There is a lack of discipline, composure, and effort that cannot be overcome in one season. Could make for a long, frustrating season.

[bigbird 60,368]

9 hours ago, Mikey said:

I don't have any thoughts on this. 20+ minute podwhatevers are not my thing.

That's why I only asked about a minute worth of it. I gave the time stamp to make it easier.

[bigbird 60,368]

1 hour ago, AU-24 said:

Problems: Play calling on both sides of the line of scrimmage has been atrocious at times.

The first half against Alabama State and just about the entire game against Georgia State was simply a team not prepared or well coached.

As far as talent goes; agree with some of what has already been said but do they actually think we have less talent than Alabama State, Georgia State, Ole Sis, Arkansas?? To your point: We had enough talent to beat Penn State, on the road minus playcalling, but Harsin wasn’t left any talent?

Now we have a wide receivers coach, hired by the head coach, fired by same head coach four weeks into the season?

Wondering if anyone thanks, just a little bit of our problem, might be coaching?

Only a select few with a very well documented agenda.

[aubearcat 2,132]

43 minutes ago, bigbird said:

Only a select few with a very well documented agenda.

[keywest 138]

22 hours ago, Mike4AU said:

I’m not necessarily disagreeing with you, but it could be argued that the DL is the weakest link.  The lack of ANY pressure on the PSU QB supports my position. 

DT is a problem because we lack the talent to get push but it also is equally scheme (see PSU game) from refusal to send an extra body.

[AU9377 4,914]

18 hours ago, 1auburn1 said:

As Cole and Greg mentioned, you can scheme around mediocre OL play with a spread/tempo O but going more traditional as Harsin likes will require linemen to drive and hold blocks plus a lot of other things not required by spread offenses.    These will be more talented linemen than we have now, don't grow on trees, and still take a couple of years before they're SEC-ready in most cases which why the current staff needs to get on it or there may not be a year 4.

The thing that is baffling is that Harsin has never ran a "traditional" pro style offense.  He is a spread guy.  I continue to wonder if he and Bobo are clashing over how to implement a hybrid system of sorts.  If they don't, it will be to both of their demise.

[gr82b4au 5,568]

Makes me sick. Everyone in the world could see that we were not recruiting well over the past few years. Everyone saw this coming. 

Unfortunately the new coach is going to have to turn it around ASAP. I know he was handed a s$@! sandwich, but he is going to have to work his butt off to turn it into a BLT quickly. To do that he needs to sign Linemen, quality Linemen, and a bunch of them. This is why we hired friend from Tennessee. His job is to bring in talent. I posted the same thing on the recruiting board. 
If we do not sign them in this class, Auburn will be awful. Like Florida State awful.

 

[LPTiger 5,150]

Make no mistake, this is a rebuild project, and it will take years.   The talent gap is simply too great.   Compare AU to our cross state rival in the ultimate test of talent = who are you putting in the NFL (active, practice squad, and IR). QB 4 to 1.  RB 6 to 2. WR 9 to 3. OL 11 to 4.  DL 12 to 10.  LB 9 to 4. DB 17 to 4.    And, for the most part, their NFL guys are starters/stars.   The comparison to UGA would be pretty similar.   Until we recruit at a much higher level, we will not compete for championships.   Maybe NIL will help level the playing field.

[bigbird 60,368]

4 minutes ago, gr82b4au said:

Makes me sick. Everyone in the world could see that we were not recruiting well over the past few years. Everyone saw this coming. 

Unfortunately the new coach is going to have to turn it around ASAP. I know he was handed a s$@! sandwich, but he is going to have to work his butt off to turn it into a BLT quickly. To do that he needs to sign Linemen, quality Linemen, and a bunch of them. This is why we hired friend from Tennessee. His job is to bring in talent. I posted the same thing on the recruiting board. 
If we do not sign them in this class, Auburn will be awful. Like Florida State awful.

 

I would expect a few JuCo and transfer OL in this class

[AU9377 4,914]

2 hours ago, AU-24 said:

Problems: Play calling on both sides of the line of scrimmage has been atrocious at times.

The first half against Alabama State and just about the entire game against Georgia State was simply a team not prepared or well coached.

As far as talent goes; agree with some of what has already been said but do they actually think we have less talent than Alabama State, Georgia State, Ole Sis, Arkansas?? To your point: We had enough talent to beat Penn State, on the road minus playcalling, but Harsin wasn’t left any talent?

Now we have a wide receivers coach, hired by the head coach, fired by same head coach four weeks into the season?

Wondering if anyone thanks, just a little bit of our problem, might be coaching?

No matter how it gets sliced, talent was not a problem against Ga State.  The team being lost and ill prepared was a problem.  If there isn't a big difference in how the team comes out and plays in Baton Rouge, we will be looking at likely losing 5 consecutive games. I don't care who analyzes that, it won't be pretty.  That is why people were so upset over how the team looked against Ga State.  The last time we experienced anything close to that was 2012.  That would hurt an already struggling effort recruiting and force Harsin to clean house and replace both coordinators. 

On the flip side, if we show up in Baton Rouge and win for the first time in a long time, some of that bad taste from last Saturday will be gone and some optimism toward the rest of the season will return.

[LPTiger 5,150]

Envision this, Bama challenges us to a game of "our NFL players vs yours."    We would not have five offensive lineman to put on the field.  We couldn't play 4 wide.  If our QB got hurt in the game, we would have to forfeit.   We could not run nickel or dime defenses.    

[AU9377 4,914]

1 minute ago, LPTiger said:

Make no mistake, this is a rebuild project, and it will take years.   The talent gap is simply too great.   Compare AU to our cross state rival in the ultimate test of talent = who are you putting in the NFL (active, practice squad, and IR). QB 4 to 1.  RB 6 to 2. WR 9 to 3. OL 11 to 4.  DL 12 to 10.  LB 9 to 4. DB 17 to 4.    And, for the most part, their NFL guys are starters/stars.   The comparison to UGA would be pretty similar.   Until we recruit at a much higher level, we will not compete for championships.   Maybe NIL will help level the playing field.

Years?  We are only 2 years removed from beating our cross state rivals.  We won't recruit to that level.  Nobody in the country is doing that.  However, we can recruit well enough to be competitive with them and win our share.  Auburn won't beat bama trying to be just like them, but we can beat them.  I agree that we must recruit better overall.  However, until last year we were averaging a top 10 recruiting class going back 10 years.  We have to do better in the trenches, which the new staff must address.  They have to focus on the transfer portal immediately. 

Frankly, this staff doesn't have years to play with.  One losing season and the next is a hot seat year.  That is Auburn.