McElroy and Cubelic Breakdown Position Groups

[AU9377 4,906]

1 minute ago, LPTiger said:

Envision this, Bama challenges us to a game of "our NFL players vs yours."    We would not have five offensive lineman to put on the field.  We couldn't play 4 wide.  If our QB got hurt in the game, we would have to forfeit.   We could not run nickel or dime defenses.    

I'm assuming this game will be played on fantasy island.  We cannot focus on being just like bama.  That is not how we have beat them in a very long time.

[aubearcat 2,132]

10 minutes ago, AU9377 said:

 The last time we experienced anything close to that was 2012.  

2015 AU 27 JSU 20

2017 AU 24 Mercer 10

Not over powering victories 

[AU9377 4,906]

6 minutes ago, aubearcat said:

2015 AU 27 JSU 20

2017 AU 24 Mercer 10

Not over powering victories 

That JSU team played for the FCS national championship that year.  The Mercer game was NEVER in doubt.  Auburn led 24-3 going into the 4th qtr.  They don't compare whatsoever with last Saturday.

Also... win something and then a coach gets a pass on games that shouldn't be that close. Until then, a coach should take his medicine and do better.

Edited September 30, 2021 by AU9377

[LPTiger 5,147]

AU9377, recruiting class rankings are inherently flawed because they do not account for roster needs.  Gus signed top 10 classes, but those classes did not meet our roster needs.   I don't want to be "just like Bama", but I do want to recruit like them.   Saying we can't is a little brother, losing mentality.    With NIL we can recruit like them, legally.

 

[aubearcat 2,132]

2 minutes ago, AU9377 said:

That JSU team played for the FCS national championship that year.  The Mercer game was NEVER in doubt.  Auburn led 24-3 going into the 4th qtr.  They don't compare whatsoever with last Saturday.

Also... win something and then a coach gets a pass on games that shouldn't be that close. Until then, a coach should take his medicine and do better.

So, a team has a poor showing 4th game into a new coaching regime and it’s grinding and gnashing of teeth. A team has a poor showing in year 2-8 and it’s a pass because the coach won a few games…okay.  That’s kind of straw man argument. 
 

The basis of your argument was this was the worst game since 2012 which clearly it wasn’t. 

[aubearcat 2,132]

As an aside, I don’t care if JSU won their league or whatever, it’s still a bowl subdivision team that AUburn should steamroll as bad as GSU should’ve been. 

[gr82b4au 5,568]

17 minutes ago, AU9377 said:

No matter how it gets sliced, talent was not a problem against Ga State.  The team being lost and ill prepared was a problem. 

I can agree with this. I think there were several issues on the field with the players and the coaches. I also think that this was a classic trap game after losing a heartbreaking game at Penn State. Also you have to remember that we have been running the same high school offense for more than a decade, and it is going to take more than four games to figure out a new offense. 
However when looking at the big picture, Talent is a massive issue. If you look at how we have recruited on the offensive line, we are not even close to any of our rivals in the SEC West. Texas A&M, LSU, of course Alabama, and even freaking Ole Miss and Arkansas have better offensive line classes over the last three years. Over in the east Florida, Tennessee, and of course Georgia have better o line classes over the last three years. That means we are ninth out of the SEC in this area. For years!!! That is abysmal. We are starting a bunch of seniors, many of whom we’re not heavily recruited. Behind them is nothing. 
That is what we are dealing with from a talent standpoint. If we do not sign a class of lineman this year, we are in deeeep you know what. 

[LPTiger 5,147]

ESPN has a site where they list all NFL players from all colleges.   It appears to be active roster only.   Here is the breakout of SEC teams with respect to offensive lineman:

1. Bama 9

2. UGA 7

3. UF 6

4. LSU 6

5. A&M 5

6. Mizz 5

7. Ole Miss 4

8. Scar 4

9. Miss St 2

10. Ark 2

11. Au 1

12. Vandy 1

[bigbird 60,359]

57 minutes ago, LPTiger said:

ESPN has a site where they list all NFL players from all colleges.   It appears to be active roster only.   Here is the breakout of SEC teams with respect to offensive lineman:

1. Bama 9

2. UGA 7

3. UF 6

4. LSU 6

5. A&M 5

6. Mizz 5

7. Ole Miss 4

8. Scar 4

9. Miss St 2

10. Ark 2

11. Au 1

12. Vandy 1

 

 

You should really ask mikey his take on the matter.

[selias 2,398]

21 hours ago, tomcat said:

I suppose I was drinking the koolade thinking this could be a 9 win team. Now I’m thinking this may be a long hard slog.

In another segment Cole and Greg mentioned there were still players not fully buying in to the Harsin culture. So as 1auburn1 stated this could easily be a 2-3 year project.

IMO (and to obviously be taken with a large grain of salt), a new coach needs at least 4 years. I suppose that could change now with the transfer portal but seeing AU fans beat up Harsin and staff because Double Bubble was asleep at the wheel is wildly unfair. This is, more than likely, not a quick fix. There are too many deficiencies throughout the roster.

[AUinfusion 390]

That was a very solid explanation by a couple of guys who know what they are talking about. I don't see a lot of quick answers, either. We simply do not have the "Joes". 

At this point, I'm OK with Harsin going full-on hard-ass with players and with coaches. Either he wins some needed recruiting battles, or he doesn't (in which case, his tenure will be short), but either way we need him to actually install that tough-nosed, detail-orientated style of playing and coaching that he keeps talking about.

Side note: both Cole and McElroy seem to think that our TEs are just average talent, in which case I give a lot of credit to those players mentality and to their position coach. I feel like the production from that group has been a bright spot.

 

[milehighfan 1,239]

On 9/29/2021 at 10:02 AM, Barnacle said:

I listened. 

My point is that they are the single greatest liability on this roster. If Gus had adequately recruited the line, we could better disguise the issues at WR, for instance. 

Gus is the smartest head coach Auburn has ever had. If you don't believe me, just ask him.

[woodford 3,655]

7 hours ago, AU9377 said:

That JSU team played for the FCS national championship that year.  The Mercer game was NEVER in doubt.  Auburn led 24-3 going into the 4th qtr.  They don't compare whatsoever with last Saturday.

Also... win something and then a coach gets a pass on games that shouldn't be that close. Until then, a coach should take his medicine and do better.

Yeah that JSU team was really good and that that Auburn roster/coaches had the talent to win by 6 TD’s they wanted. That was the first major red flag from Gus. 

[milehighfan 1,239]

I just finished listening to it and everything they said was true...especially about the offensive line. In particular Cole hit the nail on the head talking about no quality depth along the OL. Gus was a steal at 49 million. So glad he is gone.

[bigbird 60,359]

1 hour ago, milehighfan said:

I just finished listening to it and everything they said was true...especially about the offensive line. In particular Cole hit the nail on the head talking about no quality depth along the OL. Gus was a steal at 49 million. So glad he is gone.

I'd say almost impossible to argue against...

[AU9377 4,906]

9 hours ago, selias said:

IMO (and to obviously be taken with a large grain of salt), a new coach needs at least 4 years. I suppose that could change now with the transfer portal but seeing AU fans beat up Harsin and staff because Double Bubble was asleep at the wheel is wildly unfair. This is, more than likely, not a quick fix. There are too many deficiencies throughout the roster.

I'll say this again.  The Ga State game had nothing to do with Gus. The talent gap between Ga State and AU is immense.  Some of you are acting as though Ga State is Penn State, LSU or Georgia.  Offensive line depth is and has been a problem for 3 or 4 years.  Nobody can argue that isn't the case.  That said, it is a non issue against Ga State.  OL play may be an issue, but the talent is there to handle Ga State. We have to be less vanilla and help the OL with out play calling etc.

[AU9377 4,906]

11 hours ago, aubearcat said:

As an aside, I don’t care if JSU won their league or whatever, it’s still a bowl subdivision team that AUburn should steamroll as bad as GSU should’ve been. 

I agree.  I just think it is fair to point out that that JSU team would have boat raced the Ga State team we played Saturday.  That Ga State would beat our first two opponents, but that isn't saying much.

[AU9377 4,906]

11 hours ago, aubearcat said:

So, a team has a poor showing 4th game into a new coaching regime and it’s grinding and gnashing of teeth. A team has a poor showing in year 2-8 and it’s a pass because the coach won a few games…okay.  That’s kind of straw man argument. 
 

The basis of your argument was this was the worst game since 2012 which clearly it wasn’t. 

It actually was.  There have been games after which I have been even more frustrated, but those were against Georgia and Clemson, not a 1-2 Ga State. I said nothing about a pass and there is no straw man argument. 

It is pretty simple.  When a staff shows you they can win, which is what winning the SEC and playing for a national championship (3rd time in the school's history) does, there is less gnawing of teeth naturally. When a staff has recently completed the biggest turn around in college football history, taking a team winless in the SEC and winning the conference, there is naturally less gnawing of the teeth. 

Nobody is arguing that it wasn't time for  a change.  Hell, I would argue that Auburn should have made that change in 2017.  Even so, if someone wants to compare the Ga State game with the JSU game, there are reasons why people were less concerned then than now.  Real reasons.

[AU9377 4,906]

Let's look at talent............................

Auburn admittedly has OL issues and that includes depth at the position.  However, some of you want to make the leap into concluding that the roster is void of talent.  Is it really?

Class rankings 2017 thru 2020. Yes, these do matter because they are based on player rankings that make up a class.

2017_______________________________________________________

AU #9

UF #11

Texas A&M #13

Arkansas #27

Ole Miss #31

2018__________________________________________________________

AU #12

UF#14

Texas A&M #17

Ole Miss #32

Arkansas #45

2019_____________________________________________________________

AU #11

UF #9

Texas A&M #4

Arkansas #23

Ole Miss #22

2020_______________________________________________________________

AU #7

UF #9

Texas A&M #6

Arkansas #29

Ole Miss #34

[ValleyTiger 2,894]

10 hours ago, selias said:

IMO (and to obviously be taken with a large grain of salt), a new coach needs at least 4 years. I suppose that could change now with the transfer portal but seeing AU fans beat up Harsin and staff because Double Bubble was asleep at the wheel is wildly unfair. This is, more than likely, not a quick fix. There are too many deficiencies throughout the roster.

I hear ya. Harsin is trying to build something different than we've seen at Auburn in awhile. He's not interested in simplifying things or budging on his program standards. It's learn your alignment and assignment, get better everyday no one standing still, and give effort. We were destined to have a big learning curve and suffer some lumps along the way. I believe in what he's doing so far.

Still, I can question some of the things we're doing schematically that aren't giving our current talent pool the best chance to win now. Not major philosophical changes, just minor adjustments, but the season is only a 1/4 of the way finished so hopefully we see some of the adjustments.

[tightendoverthemiddle 102]

On 9/29/2021 at 10:07 AM, Mike4AU said:

I’m not necessarily disagreeing with you, but it could be argued that the DL is the weakest link.  The lack of ANY pressure on the PSU QB supports my position. 

Yep!! 3 Fifth years at other schools, 2 at UF and 1 at UCF.

[AU-24 3,063]

A lot of posts, a lot of good points.

Was Harrison left with the talent to beat Penn State, on the road, during white out? Yes 

Did Auburn have the talent to beat LSU last year? Yes

Did Auburn have the talent to beat the best coach in the history of college football just two seasons ago? Yes

So have all of those guys graduated?

Does Auburn have more talent on the roster then Ole Sis or Arkansas? Or for that matter, Alabama state and Georgia State? Yes

Then all of a sudden, we see (at times) a complete coaching debacle in three different games, and it is because Harsin was left with no talent?

Someone wrote look for transfers along the O-line for next year. Why? Because the current staff sure as Hades isn’t recruiting them.

No push and no pressure applied from the D-line? Well how many four and five star D-line recruits do we have right now?

Is there even the slightest chance, any of this could be coaching?

[aubearcat 2,132]

8 hours ago, AU9377 said:

It actually was.  There have been games after which I have been even more frustrated, but those were against Georgia and Clemson, not a 1-2 Ga State. I said nothing about a pass and there is no straw man argument. 

It is pretty simple.  When a staff shows you they can win, which is what winning the SEC and playing for a national championship (3rd time in the school's history) does, there is less gnawing of teeth naturally. When a staff has recently completed the biggest turn around in college football history, taking a team winless in the SEC and winning the conference, there is naturally less gnawing of the teeth. 

Nobody is arguing that it wasn't time for  a change.  Hell, I would argue that Auburn should have made that change in 2017.  Even so, if someone wants to compare the Ga State game with the JSU game, there are reasons why people were less concerned then than now.  Real reasons.

I suppose if you want to go with turnaround road instead of a narrow defeat of a FCS team, you could argue that the conference title was won with Chizik and probably a few tubberville recruits. I’m sure some, not necessarily you, would say the same thing about the current staff. If they were winning at a dominant clip, it’s with the previous staffs players. 
However, the previous staff was left with a road grading offensive line and the previous staff managed to find a transcendent assassin of a QB in Marshall to win the conference and play for a championship. Please explain though outside of 2013, what else did the previous staff win to instill such confidence. A few horseshoe in the tail victories. 
Regular BEATDOWNS at the hands of ua and uga. Our rivals didn’t just beat AUburn, they’d dominate the game. Then occasionally a “prayer” or “miracle” would come along (while enjoyable at the time it was just that -a miracle/prayer). So yes, JSU was a harbinger and more indicative of the things to come and regardless of the “in doubt” status of Mercer, that team should’ve/would’ve been destroyed by most SEC teams scout teams. 
Yes, it was a straw man argument. The fact that that you use a great season to justify narrow wins/losses to seemingly inferior opponents in subsequent years and to impugn a narrow win in the fourth game of the first season, is not directly addressing the original argument that it was the worst game since 2012 when clearly it was not. 
 

and yes, it’s no secret, I NEVER wanted the previous staff hired to begin with. I wanted Kirby to be hired at the time and many of my AUburn friends told me he’d head to uga when the opportunity came open. My thought was AUburn would be on more solid ground when he left than when he was hired as opposed to the current situation. 

Edited October 1, 2021 by aubearcat

[Hank2020 3,191]

46 minutes ago, aubearcat said:

I suppose if you want to go with turnaround road instead of a narrow defeat of a FCS team, you could argue that the conference title was won with Chizik and probably a few tubberville recruits. I’m sure some, not necessarily you, would say the same thing about the current staff. If they were winning at a dominant clip, it’s with the previous staffs players. 
However, the previous staff was left with a road grading offensive line and the previous staff managed to find a transcendent assassin of a QB in Marshall to win the conference and play for a championship. Please explain though outside of 2013, what else did the previous staff win to instill such confidence. A few horseshoe in the tail victories. 
Regular BEATDOWNS at the hands of ua and uga. Our rivals didn’t just beat AUburn, they’d dominate the game. Then occasionally a “prayer” or “miracle” would come along (while enjoyable at the time it was just that -a miracle/prayer). So yes, JSU was a harbinger and more indicative of the things to come and regardless of the “in doubt” status of Mercer, that team should’ve/would’ve been destroyed by most SEC teams scout teams. 
Yes, it was a straw man argument. The fact that that you use a great season to justify narrow wins/losses to seemingly inferior opponents in subsequent years and to impugn a narrow win in the fourth game of the first season, is not directly addressing the original argument that it was the worst game since 2012 when clearly it was not. 
 

and yes, it’s no secret, I NEVER wanted the previous staff hired to begin with. I wanted Kirby to be hired at the time and many of my AUburn friends told me he’d head to uga when the opportunity came open. My thought was AUburn would be on more solid ground when he left than when he was hired as opposed to the current situation. 

Looking at things now, that would have probably been true. Doesn’t cost anything to guess at what might have been vs actually knowing what happened.

[AU9377 4,906]

4 hours ago, aubearcat said:

I suppose if you want to go with turnaround road instead of a narrow defeat of a FCS team, you could argue that the conference title was won with Chizik and probably a few tubberville recruits. I’m sure some, not necessarily you, would say the same thing about the current staff. If they were winning at a dominant clip, it’s with the previous staffs players. 
However, the previous staff was left with a road grading offensive line and the previous staff managed to find a transcendent assassin of a QB in Marshall to win the conference and play for a championship. Please explain though outside of 2013, what else did the previous staff win to instill such confidence. A few horseshoe in the tail victories. 
Regular BEATDOWNS at the hands of ua and uga. Our rivals didn’t just beat AUburn, they’d dominate the game. Then occasionally a “prayer” or “miracle” would come along (while enjoyable at the time it was just that -a miracle/prayer). So yes, JSU was a harbinger and more indicative of the things to come and regardless of the “in doubt” status of Mercer, that team should’ve/would’ve been destroyed by most SEC teams scout teams. 
Yes, it was a straw man argument. The fact that that you use a great season to justify narrow wins/losses to seemingly inferior opponents in subsequent years and to impugn a narrow win in the fourth game of the first season, is not directly addressing the original argument that it was the worst game since 2012 when clearly it was not. 
 

and yes, it’s no secret, I NEVER wanted the previous staff hired to begin with. I wanted Kirby to be hired at the time and many of my AUburn friends told me he’d head to uga when the opportunity came open. My thought was AUburn would be on more solid ground when he left than when he was hired as opposed to the current situation. 

We can play what ifs all day long.  I am not anti Harsin in any way, shape or form.  I want this staff to succeed.  That said, I am not about to excuse away this staff's bad game planning, play calling and lack of creativity to get the most out of the current roster.  When people say bull**** like "he is such a man" and  "a true alpha" I just roll my eyes and wonder what the hell that bs has to do with getting the most out of his young men?

I also appreciate what the prior staff was able to accomplish.  It ran its course.  That is not unusual.  I have argue many times that we should have seized the opportunity in 2017 and wished Gus the best on moving home to Arkansas.  We didn't.  That isn't on Gus.  That is on Auburn.  We were the laughing stock of the SEC in 2012 and we wore the crown after 2013.  I will always appreciate that and there is no need to be apologetic for that.  When people pretend that there is no talent on the current roster, I simply point out that they are mistaken.  When people use a talent argument to excuse that Ga State performance, it is comical.  What some of you don't recognize is that it isn't people correcting you about the former staff that keep bringing it up.  The people that constantly bring up the former staff and engage in revisionist history do that over and over.