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2023 Discussion Thread


Zeek

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1 minute ago, AUght2win said:

Yes but not to the level where it should be considered normal or understandable that Michigan State is out recruiting us for southern targets. Which is the crux of this convo. 

I’m not saying that necessarily what happened. If we didn’t want the Hood kid, then it doesn’t matter if it’s Michigan State or Wyoming that took him. But Penn State has also grabbed some of our in state targets. There’s no excuse for that to happen on a consistent basis. None.

AU has football players this season from Germany, Australia, and France. When I was there in the 80s we thought it was huge to have a walk-on from Texas. Recruiting footprint and player allegiances are vastly different now. 

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1 minute ago, Brad_ATX said:

Coming to a conclusion that you disagree with doesn't mean I'm not being objective.

This

Ditto. You lived in EL for a long time and admit you wished you could have gone there. How are you not picking up on your OWN bias here? 

I have quantitative data to make my argument. I can give you tons of hard stats and accolades that show Auburn is on a different level. Your supporting evidence is mythical national titles from 60 years ago, as well as a (very inconsistent) decade stretch in a weaker conference. Doesn’t add up.

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4 minutes ago, AUght2win said:

Ditto. You lived in EL for a long time and admit you wished you could have gone there. How are you not picking up on your OWN bias here? 

I have quantitative data to make my argument. I can give you tons of hard stats and accolades that show Auburn is on a different level. Your supporting evidence is mythical national titles from 60 years ago, as well as a (very inconsistent) decade stretch in a weaker conference. Doesn’t add up.

Saying I would have gone to school there if given the chance to do it over again doesn't mean I'm automatically weighting things towards MSU in a debate.  JFC what a stupid argument to make.

Historical records don't start and stop when you say so or when I say so.  On the whole, I believe the programs are pretty damn even.  National titles and conference titles in similar conferences are about even.  Wins are a difference of half a victory per season.  Top 10 finishes are even.  Bowl games since the Big 10 changed rules are very close.

The gulf that you claim is there simply doesn't add up to me.

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1 minute ago, Gowebb11 said:

AU has football players this season from Germany, Australia, and France. When I was there in the 80s we thought it was huge to have a walk-on from Texas. Recruiting footprint and player allegiances are vastly different now. 

They really aren’t. You’re using outliers to try to define norms. We’ve got about 115 kids on our roster. 87 are from Alabama or a bordering state. Another 10 or so are from Louisiana. 

College football has changed but not completely. Most southern kids still want to play in the SEC, where they are familiar with the culture and their folks can realistically come watch them play. It’s common sense.

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2 minutes ago, Brad_ATX said:

Saying I would have gone to school there if given the chance to do it over again doesn't mean I'm automatically weighting things towards MSU in a debate.  JFC what a stupid argument to make.

Historical records don't start and stop when you say so or when I say so.  On the whole, I believe the programs are pretty damn even.  National titles and conference titles in similar conferences are about even.  Wins are a difference of half a victory per season.  Top 10 finishes are even.  Bowl games since the Big 10 changed rules are very close.

The gulf that you claim is there simply doesn't add up to me.

I can’t help you, dude. If you believe that accolades from ancient history - from before racial integration, scholarship limitations, the Power 5, and post bowl polls - are to be respected on the same level as Auburn’s national prominence (albeit inconsistent) in every single decade dating back to that same ancient history, there’s just nothing to discuss. 

You should walk into a sports bar and make an argument on how Yale (18 national titles) is a blueblood.

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34 minutes ago, Didba said:

100% agreed. This is a good read if you are interested in seeing other fans opinions on bluebloods.  Has some nice charts too! I think your tier 2 could be "nearbloods"

 

This is cool, Didba. Found a graph in the comments that seems pretty revealing. Might be a good barometer for blueblood pecking order.

4ED68ED0-214A-4A50-B014-0F3687FAF840.thumb.jpeg.ef8a9eb183755540f23cd0eb3fa3a806.jpeg

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2 minutes ago, AUght2win said:

This is cool, Didba. Found a graph in the comments that seems pretty revealing. Might be a good barometer for blueblood pecking order.

4ED68ED0-214A-4A50-B014-0F3687FAF840.thumb.jpeg.ef8a9eb183755540f23cd0eb3fa3a806.jpeg

Man that is a great chart

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30 minutes ago, AuburnNTexas said:

Michigan has a Blue Blood name but over last 10 years really has not been in that category. They finally beat Ohio State last year. Nebraska has not been relevant in years. USC also have not been relevant in years.  Since College playoffs started the top teams have been bama, Clemson, Oklahoma, Ohio State and kind of Notre Dame.    

I agree based on long Historical record with your designation of Blue Bloods but the Nebraska's, USC's and Michigan's to me have not been relevant for such a long time they no longer qualify.   Now USC may or may not be onn its way back to relevancy.

This is an interesting argument: whether or not you can lose Blueblood status. I think you technically can. But I think there has to be a LONG degree of decline, and it also has to correlate to how much success you already had stacked up.

Michigan is college football’s all time winningest program. Their history is as elite as it gets. They just made the CFP and won their conference. And we’re not even 20 years removed from when Lloyd Carr was taking them to the rose bowl almost every single year. They haven’t lost their blueblood card in the grand scheme of things.

A team like Nebraska, however, I would argue they are closing in on moving down a tier. They haven’t done anything in a LOOOONG time. 

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5 minutes ago, AUght2win said:

Michigan is college football’s all time winningest program. Their history is as elite as it gets. They just made the CFP and won their conference. And we’re not even 20 years removed from when Lloyd Carr was taking them to the rose bowl almost every single year. They haven’t lost their blueblood card in the grand scheme of things.

I would argue that they can never *not* be a blue blood because they have the greatest helmets and fight song music in college football

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2 hours ago, Brad_ATX said:

I dunno man, five 10 win seasons in a decade is a hell of a lot more consistency than we've put up over that same span.

This 12-2 season ended with a 38-0 drubbing by Alabama:

https://msuspartans.com/sports/football/schedule/2015

This 11 win season culminated with a 49-7 loss to Bama.

https://msuspartans.com/sports/football/schedule/2010

10≠10 😉

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1 hour ago, Brad_ATX said:

You should hear the UT folks around town this week.  Some are delusional enough to think they have a prayer Saturday.

I asked my daughter if she was going to the game. She said, "I have better things to do than watch that bloodbath. Like, I have an O-Chem test next week".

O-Chem test > Watching the Turds

 

I told her it was a chance of a lifetime. She said unless I live till 2026. 😂

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2 hours ago, Brad_ATX said:

I dunno man, five 10 win seasons in a decade is a hell of a lot more consistency than we've put up over that same span.

Hm, it's almost like they don't have to play the toughest schedule in the country every year! Seriously, the "Auburn has only won 10 games back to back once" stat is incredibly misleading.

Edited by AUwent
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47 minutes ago, AUght2win said:

They really aren’t. You’re using outliers to try to define norms. We’ve got about 115 kids on our roster. 87 are from Alabama or a bordering state. Another 10 or so are from Louisiana. 

College football has changed but not completely. Most southern kids still want to play in the SEC, where they are familiar with the culture and their folks can realistically come watch them play. It’s common sense.

Most kids. But more and more kids are willing to travel to play ball. You said I used outliers. So how about Asante(Virginia)Burks(Illinois)Coffey(California)Carlson(Colorado). Canella, Braden Smith, Kozan, CA Payne from recent years. I hate to lose local talent but it’s ridiculous to say Penn St or even MSU with all their history, tradition, and facilities shouldn’t be able to sell a southern kid on playing ball there. The same way Oregon convinced Ashford, James, and Jones to go out there initially. 

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52 minutes ago, TexasTiger said:

This 12-2 season ended with a 38-0 drubbing by Alabama:

https://msuspartans.com/sports/football/schedule/2015

This 11 win season culminated with a 49-7 loss to Bama.

https://msuspartans.com/sports/football/schedule/2010

10≠10 😉

The first one you linked to was the damn CFP.  I'd love the chance to get killed in the CFP.

Edited by Brad_ATX
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48 minutes ago, AUwent said:

Hm, it's almost like they don't have to play the toughest schedule in the country every year! Seriously, the "Auburn has only won 10 games back to back once" stat is incredibly misleading.

Ummm, Auburn hasn't always consistently had the toughest schedule in the country.  That's a relatively new thing this century.

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47 minutes ago, Gowebb11 said:

Most kids. But more and more kids are willing to travel to play ball. You said I used outliers. So how about Asante(Virginia)Burks(Illinois)Coffey(California)Carlson(Colorado). Canella, Braden Smith, Kozan, CA Payne from recent years. I hate to lose local talent but it’s ridiculous to say Penn St or even MSU with all their history, tradition, and facilities shouldn’t be able to sell a southern kid on playing ball there. The same way Oregon convinced Ashford, James, and Jones to go out there initially. 

It can happen, absolutely. But it’s not the norm. Recruiting isn’t primarily national except for the powers like Alabama, Ohio State, and currently teams like Clemson. Teams that can put kids in the NFL with the most consistency.

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47 minutes ago, Brad_ATX said:

Ummm, Auburn hasn't always consistently had the toughest schedule in the country.  That's a relatively new thing this century.

Well, I was responding to the comparison of the last decade. Records *have* to be graded on a curve, it's why it's BS that the highest ranked G5 champ will get an automatic bid to the playoff under the new system. Freaking Memphis would've gotten in over us three years ago when we won 9 games while playing half the top 10.

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🥱 zzzzzzzzzzzz

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10 hours ago, bigbird said:

Disingenuous much?

Who said anything about what your throwing up against the wall?

You did. Right here: "You need to readjust the parameters.  You can't judge or base things today off of anything before 2 years ago. Portal and NIL has completely changed the recruiting landscape.  Like you said, it used to be rare, but the number of recruits signing out of area has exploded in the last couple of cycles.  It's the new norm. "

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3 hours ago, Gowebb11 said:

Most kids. But more and more kids are willing to travel to play ball. You said I used outliers. So how about Asante(Virginia)Burks(Illinois)Coffey(California)Carlson(Colorado). Canella, Braden Smith, Kozan, CA Payne from recent years. I hate to lose local talent but it’s ridiculous to say Penn St or even MSU with all their history, tradition, and facilities shouldn’t be able to sell a southern kid on playing ball there. The same way Oregon convinced Ashford, James, and Jones to go out there initially. 

You named eight. That's out of a pool of well over one hundred. Yes, they are outliers.

Does this mean you are fine with AU getting three of the top 30 prospects in the state because it's the New Norm? If that's going to be the case we are in a world of hurt.

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22 minutes ago, Mikey said:

You did. Right here: "You need to readjust the parameters.  You can't judge or base things today off of anything before 2 years ago. Portal and NIL has completely changed the recruiting landscape.  Like you said, it used to be rare, but the number of recruits signing out of area has exploded in the last couple of cycles.  It's the new norm. "

Still being disingenuous and you know it.  

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Auburn is a legit football program. Only 6 teams have won a national championship more recently than Auburn. And we appeared in a championship game after that. 

The Iron Bowl is one of the most watched games of the year. I get texts before, during, and after from old friends all across the country. Everyone is watching. 

Historically, Auburn holds up as well. We are around 15 all time, by most metrics. 

We also have very famous alumni athletes. Bo is a legend. Cam is one of the most famous football players of the last 12 years. Not football, but Barkley is a household name who constantly talks up Auburn.  

I'm an admitted pessimist. But let's be real about Auburn football. We aren't insignificant. 

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