Mason - critique/discussion

[McLoofus 35,182]

5 minutes ago, Tigerpro2a said:

I said it. I don't know if I used that word, but I expected a top 3 SEC Defense. Odd things is, with the struggles, we can still get there. I did specifically say Scoring D. 

For sure. That wouldn't even qualify as a dramatic turnaround by Auburn standards, lol. 

[Tigerpro2a 5,650]

34 minutes ago, creed said:

I like our guys and defense but think we're missing a few pieces to get to the elite level. I support what we're doing but can see things we can do better from an honest fans view. 

One. We have problems with gap control and forcing the gap to our advantage. From my standpoint this takes bigger LBs and better backside fill.

Two. I don't think we quite have the depth to adequately rotate personnel for specific down and distance fits. Ultimately, a truly elite defense would leave their eleven on the field and say "let's play" or the perfect personnel to fit.

Third. I think we're only average in speed on some of the back-end positions. (Safety)

Fourth. Need a super fast edge rusher with size and diverse skill set. (think Clowney. This is the freak athlete which is difficult find but it's what i would like.)

Well said. I definitely think as we recruit to this system across the board that we will see it improve and we will see improvement with the players we have as well. 

We need more speed at S agree

We need more size at NT and DT. Fair fits the bill to an extent, but we need a difference maker.

OLB we need guys like Ka'lavon Chaisson from LSU a few years back. Big guys 6'4-250 with speed. 

MLB  we have 2 great LBs but both are really a little undersized. I think OF LSU Devin White. Big and Fast enough to cover sideline to sideline. 

I think we will see more length in the secondary. Guys like Ro Torrence who are tall and rangy. 

[Gowebb11 9,313]

14 hours ago, Tigerpro2a said:

So I don't think Bryant even starts or makes 2 deep on this team. Newkirk and Truesdell were both solid depth guys, but neither were superstars. I think they would have helped in the rotation though. All in all, I don't think they help or hurt us much either way.

I agree with this. Saturday we had a 6 man rotation at tackle, with Wooden and Harris, Burks and Fair, and Butler and Pegues. I think they are all playing well, especially Wooden and Harris. Pegues hustles his butt off and is progressing nicely too. It says a lot about our current d-linemen that we are redshirting Dylan Brooks, Lee Hunter, Tobechi Okoli, Ian Matthews, and possibly Marquis Robinson.  Truesdell and Newkirk aren’t producing much at UF. 

Edited October 19, 2021 by Gowebb11

[Gowebb11 9,313]

1 hour ago, creed said:

Fourth. Need a super fast edge rusher with size and diverse skill set. (think Clowney. This is the freak athlete which is difficult find but it's what i would like.)

Dylan Brooks is reported to be super talented (maybe not Clowney level). I am excited to see him and Tobechi Okoli next year. 

[cole256 17,042]

18 hours ago, Tigerpro2a said:

So I don't think Bryant even starts or makes 2 deep on this team. Newkirk and Truesdell were both solid depth guys, but neither were superstars. I think they would have helped in the rotation though. All in all, I don't think they help or hurt us much either way.

Disagree

[McLoofus 35,182]

5 minutes ago, cole256 said:

Disagree

Do you think Truesdell could've played well at nose tackle? 

[cole256 17,042]

1 minute ago, McLoofus said:

Do you think Truesdell could've played well at nose tackle? 

Yes. He was very athletic for his size. I think he starts easy. Also him being able to be in rotation with Fair would be huge. So far d line play has dictated the overall success of the defense. Heroes of a 3-4 usually aren't shown in stats, but they are vital all the same.

[tsande07 271]

23 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

Do you think Truesdell could've played well at nose tackle? 

I think Jeremiah Wright's injury set us back there.

[creed 1,635]

19 minutes ago, cole256 said:

Yes. He was very athletic for his size. I think he starts easy. Also him being able to be in rotation with Fair would be huge. So far d line play has dictated the overall success of the defense. Heroes of a 3-4 usually aren't shown in stats, but they are vital all the same.

Agree. For me maybe the best stat for an interior DL is how much effort the offensive scheme has to assign to neutralize the defensive lineman. Double teams, chips or keeping a back in to block is a plus for the defense. 

[Tigerpro2a 5,650]

1 hour ago, cole256 said:

Disagree

Glad to know lol. 

[Tigerpro2a 5,650]

@cole256

I said that because you didn't elaborate on what you disagreed about or why. Just " I disagree"

I am not truly glad you or anyone disagrees, but that is what makes the world go wrong. 

[cole256 17,042]

16 hours ago, creed said:

Agree. For me maybe the best stat for an interior DL is how much effort the offensive scheme has to assign to neutralize the defensive lineman. Double teams, chips or keeping a back in to block is a plus for the defense. 

Yes. Especially at NT. Just being able to hold space and take up two blockers unlocks almost limitless opportunities for this defense. Also if our linebackers has a weakness it's their size. Being able to free them up and run around sideline to sideline is huge. 

If Truesdell was here playing it would be huge. We would be much better on defense. Also that position is such a effort position, having someone to share the load would help a bunch. Nose tackles are hard to find. 

[Gowebb11 9,313]

Just now, cole256 said:

If Truesdell was here playing it would be huge. We would be much better on defense. Also that position is such a effort position, having someone to share the load would help a bunch. Nose tackles are hard to find. 

I saw some of that in 2019, but he was pushed around like he was on roller skates a lot last year. Must’ve been out of shape. 

[cole256 17,042]

14 hours ago, Tigerpro2a said:

@cole256

I said that because you didn't elaborate on what you disagreed about or why. Just " I disagree"

I am not truly glad you or anyone disagrees, but that is what makes the world go wrong. 

Well everybody on here aren't afforded the same opportunities. If I type out and explain that, then I'm a know it all, and I'm escalating an argument. I can't move freely as others so I have to approach and interact differently. It's nothing to you personally. 

[cole256 17,042]

1 minute ago, Gowebb11 said:

I saw some of that in 2019, but he was pushed around like he was on roller skates a lot last year. Must’ve been out of shape. 

A bunch of people performance was bad last year. And if you put a magnifying glass and watch anybody last year you will find play that's not good. He was regarded as one of the strongest men on the team. 

And that type of d tackle wasn't his optimal position. A nose tackle is his best position.

People said the exact thing about Fair last year and he was at uab. Theoretically if he was lazy there he certainly wouldn't be successful here. 

[Tigerpro2a 5,650]

17 minutes ago, cole256 said:

Well everybody on here aren't afforded the same opportunities. If I type out and explain that, then I'm a know it all, and I'm escalating an argument. I can't move freely as others so I have to approach and interact differently. It's nothing to you personally. 

Well, you can feel freely to say what you will to me my friend. No worries.

[steeleagle 2,945]

18 hours ago, cole256 said:

Yes. He was very athletic for his size. I think he starts easy. Also him being able to be in rotation with Fair would be huge. So far d line play has dictated the overall success of the defense. Heroes of a 3-4 usually aren't shown in stats, but they are vital all the same.

I don't. 

I think Truesdell the year before was getting pushed back way too many times into the next level. He didn't have that nasty streak.

I think he would have ended up being in the rotation but as a backup.

And looking at how he's playing so little and doing so little at FL seems to carry forward his play there. Newqirk is doing much better and playing more than Truesdell.

It's just how i saw it....I am happy with Fair and Harris, although we always miss a guy like Brown who could disrupt a backfield.

[cole256 17,042]

19 minutes ago, steeleagle said:

I don't. 

I think Truesdell the year before was getting pushed back way too many times into the next level. He didn't have that nasty streak.

I think he would have ended up being in the rotation but as a backup.

And looking at how he's playing so little and doing so little at FL seems to carry forward his play there. Newqirk is doing much better and playing more than Truesdell.

It's just how i saw it....I am happy with Fair and Harris, although we always miss a guy like Brown who could disrupt a backfield.

Well I'm not trying to argue about opinions. All I know is trying to use stats to point out a nose tackle's play is misleading. The bestnose tackles won't have good stats. You can look at Fair for us. Truesdell stats are similar with 3 less games and neither one is much.

A nose tackle in a 3-4 is a completely different position and skill set than a d tackle in a 4-3. Asked to do different things so even going back to a previous year with a different defense doesn't mean too much. 

What you can see that's fact though is as soon as he was available he was made a starter and everybody is happy about his play. When he's not hurt he's who they decide to go with. 

I do know as far as Auburn goes if for whatever reason you get branded with whatever is decided people will ride it and bring it up and point it out no matter what. 

Like the secondary we are improving there and everybody makes mistakes but every game you will definitely see something about smoke can't cover. Seth last year was always going to hear something he didn't do and so on and so forth. 

I personally think it's silly to not think a position such as nose that another big athlete that's good enough to start at multiple D1 programs wouldn't help.

But in situations like these you can't win or lose because if there isn't any production it's look they didn't produce there and if it is production like if Malik/Bo then it's well they wouldn't have done that for us though. 

But we all have our own opinions for whatever reasons

[Carnell 592]

On 10/18/2021 at 3:51 PM, meh130 said:

I think our defensive issues are much more related to scheme than to individual position coaches. When was the last time Auburn ran a 3-4 style 2-gap interior DL as its base? Also, I don't think we have ever run a "2-4" style with 2 Edges, 2 DTs, and 2 ILBs. Then you look at the secondary scheme we have. The last time we had a base defense that played primarily zone was the Chizik era.

The 3-4 and 2-4 2-gap interior DL might be a good approach for our DL strategy, but we have not recruited for that scheme. We also have not recruited for zone in our DBs. The heavy use of zone requires the DL to get pressure on the QB with a standard rush. And despite playing zone, we were torched by Penn State's TEs.

I question if a zone-heavy pass defense is the right solution in the pass-happy, spread offenses of the SEC. Almost everyone else uses a hybrid man/zone scheme similar to the one Saban and Belichick created in Cleveland to counter Pittsburg use of 4 WR sets.

It is very frustrating. We went into this season knowing we had good LBs, and we all thought our DB room was a strength. I think we all thought the DL would be a challenge due to the change in gap scheme. But the major pass coverage scheme change has been a lot for our DBs to digest.

With an athletic QB like Corral then some type of zone is almost a necessity to keep eyes on the QB.  If our coaching staff picks up on some tendency maybe such as Corral scambles to the right then maybe the can zone the right with a man free concept to the left.  If we do run man against Corral we better have a spy on Corral that is good at making tackles in the open field.

[bigbird 60,460]

On 10/19/2021 at 9:42 AM, creed said:

I think we're only average in speed on some of the back-end positions. (Safety)

For sure!

 

I'd like to see Pritchett get some more reps there

[Carnell 592]

On 10/19/2021 at 9:42 AM, creed said:

I like our guys and defense but think we're missing a few pieces to get to the elite level. I support what we're doing but can see things we can do better from an honest fans view. 

One. We have problems with gap control and forcing the gap to our advantage. From my standpoint this takes bigger LBs and better backside fill.

Two. I don't think we quite have the depth to adequately rotate personnel for specific down and distance fits. Ultimately, a truly elite defense would leave their eleven on the field and say "let's play" or the perfect personnel to fit.

Third. I think we're only average in speed on some of the back-end positions. (Safety)

Fourth. Need a super fast edge rusher with size and diverse skill set. (think Clowney. This is the freak athlete which is difficult find but it's what i would like.)

You make some good points but while you are right about gap control it is not our only problem.  We had poor gap control in the georgia state game and it will also be impor rant in the Ole Miss game but against Georgia manning up was the problem because they just beat us at the LOC.  Gap control will not be that significant in the Bama game but manning up and controlling the LOC will be of primary concern.

[e808 3,025]

If Corall is as bang up as reported . I will be surprised to see him do much running . The down side is that might cut down on Kiffin using the analytics to make boneheaded decisions

[Zeek 16,643]

On 10/19/2021 at 9:42 AM, creed said:

I like our guys and defense but think we're missing a few pieces to get to the elite level. I support what we're doing but can see things we can do better from an honest fans view. 

One. We have problems with gap control and forcing the gap to our advantage. From my standpoint this takes bigger LBs and better backside fill.

Two. I don't think we quite have the depth to adequately rotate personnel for specific down and distance fits. Ultimately, a truly elite defense would leave their eleven on the field and say "let's play" or the perfect personnel to fit.

Third. I think we're only average in speed on some of the back-end positions. (Safety)

Fourth. Need a super fast edge rusher with size and diverse skill set. (think Clowney. This is the freak athlete which is difficult find but it's what i would like.)

I think when you look at the monster of a defense UGA has it's really just depth. It's not that their starters on defense are that much better than ours (some positions they are) but they can rotate more frequently without near as much of a drop off.

[DAG 33,964]

15 minutes ago, Zeek said:

I think when you look at the monster of a defense UGA has it's really just depth. It's not that their starters on defense are that much better than ours (some positions they are) but they can rotate more frequently without near as much of a drop off.

Really? Their starters seem to be much better and then you add depth which is what makes them scary. 

[W.E.D 11,070]

30 minutes ago, Zeek said:

I think when you look at the monster of a defense UGA has it's really just depth. It's not that their starters on defense are that much better than ours (some positions they are) but they can rotate more frequently without near as much of a drop off.

I mean, who on our team would start for them?  Maybe McCreary.  As much as I love Zakoby, their entire front 7 is probably better than anyone we have.

That have multiple guys that will go in the first 3 or 4 rounds and we have 1.

I don't think we have a player of the caliber of Nolan Smith, Jordan Davis, Anderson, Travon Walker across our front 4.

Nakobe Dean is a legit NFL LB.

Edited October 21, 2021 by W.E.D