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WRs improving under Kiesau


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https://auburn.rivals.com/news/tiger-wideouts-improving
 

Tiger wideouts improving

It’s been a month since Bryan Harsin made the decision to fire Cornelius Williams and replace him with Eric Keisau as Auburn’s wide receiver coach.

Six days later, the Tigers’ receivers had just one of the five dropped passes in a 24-19 win at LSU according to PFF. The next game, however, the wideouts had three of the six drops against Georgia.

The improvement really showed the following week in a 38-23 win at Arkansas when the only drop of the game was by a tight end.

 

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6 hours ago, cole256 said:

The wr's are simply getting better as that get playing experience as most players do. The same with the tight ends and the d ends and young defensive backs. You will see this from the linebackers next year and when we eventually have a new qb. It's how football works. 

You can’t teach someone catching in a couple weeks per se, but it’s definitely clear that their focus has increased exponentially. I don’t know how much of that is him, or whatever else, but if the coaching staff feels more comfortable with him and things have improved, them it be what it be to me 

I wanna give the improvement props AND still recognize there was a clear foible in the whole Corn process. I think you (general you) can do both 

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22 hours ago, Timeslider 6 said:

He helped them develop their focus and concentration, it's the small things that contribute to a talented wr catch the ball and this isn't a "rebuttal", it's a fact. You're right about the absolutes, that's why guys get absolutely better when they have coaches that know what they are doing.

You could see the change in the UGa game with Kobe Hudson. He caught on the quickest and made a big improvement in catching the ball with his 5 rec for 50 yards. The rest of the WRs, TEs and RBs followed a week later in the ARK game. Our HC agrees with you that the new WR coach deserves a lot of credit.

Edited by IronMan70
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12 minutes ago, Dual-Threat Rigby said:

You can’t teach someone catching in a couple weeks per se, but it’s definitely clear that their focus has increased exponentially. I don’t know how much of that is him, or whatever else, but if the coaching staff feels more comfortable with him and things have improved, them it be what it be to me 

I wanna give the improvement props AND still recognize there was a clear foible in the whole Corn process. I think you (general you) can do both 

It's just funny to me how people don't think stuff out. Like what possibly do they think he came and did to not only improve his group but other groups as well? 

It's clear as day that Bo has been throwing the ball better in games against teams that are closer to our talent level. Against uga there were drops. We literally play one more game and you can see how quick we want to push improvement. If they play bad next week is anybody going to say it's because of the new coach? Of course not. Perfect position to be in. 

It's also funny how it couldn't be the most inexperienced group improving because they are actually seeing what's it like being starters and such. The coach came in and pulled out his secret drills and that did it in 2 weeks.......I mean literally think how silly that sounds.

And also think the overall situation. Do people really believe that the wr's were performing bad and nobody was addressing it but the wr coach. Do you know how pathetic it would be that the wr coach now was sitting in meetings and the entire time knew the secret techniques but didn't offer it, waited until the other guy was fired then told the players the secrets? It's so silly.

As you play and everything becomes second nature to you, you don't have to think about everything and you are just reacting. Cuts are quicker, releases are faster, you're not having butterflies anymore. More time has went by, they are starting to develop chemistry with the QB. Timing is getting better. This is literally common sense. 

But just like how 2 bad plays were exaggerated into 13.....when it's planted you have to believe it. Also think about how long the logic was used in saying these are young guys you have to let them grow on this board, but all of a sudden in this situation it's not the case...but hey I guess it's just me. I don't ever know what I'm talking about

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@Dual-Threat Rigby Sorry for the long post btw. It's not that serious, I was just saying all my thoughts because I doubt if I'll be back to say anything else for the next few days. So I don't want you to think I'm mad or I'm ignoring you or anything. 

Be cool. ✊🏿

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On 10/27/2021 at 7:34 PM, Win4AU said:

The offense has improved every week since Ga State.  Kiesau would probably be OC if he hadn’t been pursuing the Boise State job.  Hopefully the WR play continues to improve and the offense becomes more explosive.

I assume he is an OC in waiting. Harsin had to have some coaches that knew recruiting the southeast. Harsin's group will surely be elevated when the positions open as they will then know the southeast better. Just my screwball theory. 

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Harsin clearly believes that the coaching change has made a difference. Has it made all the difference? He hasn’t said that, but it makes sense to me that the WR’s improvement can be attributed to more than one thing, and it sounds like one of those “things” is Kiseau. 

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14 hours ago, Hank2020 said:

I have no iron in this fire but believe the actual is most probably in the middle of both points. Agree WR’s are getting more experience, and I also believe coaching is making a difference, both in WR’s and in Bo.

 

1 hour ago, Barnacle said:

Harsin clearly believes that the coaching change has made a difference. Has it made all the difference? He hasn’t said that, but it makes sense to me that the WR’s improvement can be attributed to more than one thing, and it sounds like one of those “things” is Kiseau. 

These.

It's my guess that it's less about "teaching the guys to catch better" than it is having a better understanding of how this offense is supposed to work and being able to better implement what Harsin wants to do. Everyone was doing their job better.

But also @cole256 is right. This is an inexperienced group. None of them have ever been The Guy against a team like uga and it showed. Against Arkansas, the pressure was completely different, literally and figuratively. And they got some good things cooking early, Bo was throwing really accurately, and voila, we watched the confidence build and the growth in real time. Now they've accumulated mistakes from which to learn AND successes to build on and from which to gain some confidence. uga and Arky were the yin and yang of growth for these guys. 

The main thing is that the passing offense we wanted is materializing. The schemes are more solid and the players are getting incrementally better. Little successes team up to breed bigger ones. If this team does anything particularly cool this year- such as getting back to a decent run game- it's going to be because of that IMO. We'll eventually run to set up the pass again but this isn't that team yet. 

Oh, by the way, this conversation made me think about that 3rd or 4th down conversion that Marcus Davis caught against TAMU in 2013. Anyone else remember that? Absolutely massive play that I personally believe was critical to that team's title run. Young guy growing into his shoes that day. Beautiful stuff. 

 

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4 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

 

These.

It's my guess that it's less about "teaching the guys to catch better" than it is having a better understanding of how this offense is supposed to work and being able to better implement what Harsin wants to do. Everyone was doing their job better.

But also @cole256 is right. This is an inexperienced group. None of them have ever been The Guy against a team like uga and it showed. Against Arkansas, the pressure was completely different, literally and figuratively. And they got some good things cooking early, Bo was throwing really accurately, and voila, we watched the confidence build and the growth in real time. Now they've accumulated mistakes from which to learn AND successes to build on and from which to gain some confidence. uga and Arky were the yin and yang of growth for these guys. 

The main thing is that the passing offense we wanted is materializing. The schemes are more solid and the players are getting incrementally better. Little successes team up to breed bigger ones. If this team does anything particularly cool this year- such as getting back to a decent run game- it's going to be because of that IMO. We'll eventually run to set up the pass again but this isn't that team yet. 

Oh, by the way, this conversation made me think about that 3rd or 4th down conversion that Marcus Davis caught against TAMU in 2013. Anyone else remember that? Absolutely massive play that I personally believe was critical to that team's title run. Young guy growing into his shoes that day. Beautiful stuff. 

 

It’s multiple things including the new WR coach being very familiar with CBH. Familiarity is low key very important . I think CBH is really understanding that. I can’t wait to see him bring a few more guys in his coaching staff. 

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3 minutes ago, DAG said:

It’s multiple things including the new WR coach being very familiar with CBH. Familiarity is low key very important . I think CBH is really understanding that. I can’t wait to see him bring a few more guys in his coaching staff. 

Exactly.

But what changes do you want to see on the staff? I was in my emotions earlier in the season and said some stuff about Friend, but I'm back to wait and see on him. I'm pretty much wait and see on everyone except Caddy (love him) until after signing day. 

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1 hour ago, McLoofus said:

Exactly.

But what changes do you want to see on the staff? I was in my emotions earlier in the season and said some stuff about Friend, but I'm back to wait and see on him. I'm pretty much wait and see on everyone except Caddy (love him) until after signing day. 

I want to see CBH bring in guys who know him and trust him. I am currently good with whom we have but I do believe some of these picks were a happy medium between guys he knew very well and guys who know the SEC. I think once he finds success and builds rapport down here, majority if not all of his staff will be guys he is well accustomed to knowing versus “the big names” most of our fanbase wants. It wouldn’t surprise me if this WR coach becomes OC and Jeff Schmedding/Bert Watts becomes DC. 

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1 hour ago, McLoofus said:

Exactly.

But what changes do you want to see on the staff? I was in my emotions earlier in the season and said some stuff about Friend, but I'm back to wait and see on him. I'm pretty much wait and see on everyone except Caddy (love him) until after signing day. 

Caddy really is the man. Seems like such a cool, genuine guy as well. RBU is back.

59 minutes ago, DAG said:

I want to see CBH bring in guys who know him and trust him. I am currently good with whom we have but I do believe some of these picks were a happy medium between guys who knew and guys who knows the SEC. I think once he finds success and builds rapport down here, majority if not all of his staff will be guys he is well accustomed to knowing versus “the big names” most of our fanbase wants. It wouldn’t surprise me if this WR coach becomes OC and Jeff Schmedding/Bert Watts becomes DC. 

Agreed. Have you watched that short profile on Watts in the other thread? Hard not to like that guy. 

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10 minutes ago, Barnacle said:

Caddy really is the man. Seems like such a cool, genuine guy as well. RBU is back.

Agreed. Have you watched that short profile on Watts in the other thread? Hard not to like that guy. 

Yep I’ve also noticed he is always side by side with CBH on game days and every cut to the sideline. They are always communicating . 

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14 hours ago, cole256 said:

@Dual-Threat Rigby Sorry for the long post btw. It's not that serious, I was just saying all my thoughts because I doubt if I'll be back to say anything else for the next few days. So I don't want you to think I'm mad or I'm ignoring you or anything. 

Be cool. ✊🏿

Nah I appreciate it, there were quite a few thoughts there I didn't account for. And the biggest thing is, we expected the WRs to not be much out the gate. It's a shame that expectation suddenly shifted once people brought out the pitchforks calling for everyone's head. 

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1 hour ago, Dual-Threat Rigby said:

Nah I appreciate it, there were quite a few thoughts there I didn't account for. And the biggest thing is, we expected the WRs to not be much out the gate. It's a shame that expectation suddenly shifted once people brought out the pitchforks calling for everyone's head. 

And people let this seep into an entire different discussion and since they felt a way and spoke about another discussion they feel the need to double down on this. 

As far as CBH should have people around him that he wants and trusts I'm ALL for that. If it was me I'd certainly want my guys I'm familiar with, because it's all on me. But if it's me I'm going to hire my guys from the jump. I would have thought that thru before saying I'll be your new coach.

I certainly do not agree with how they fired this other guy to get his friend in, and the karma on that is on him. And clearly that's how it works in the coaching game, from high school to NFL. I'm not talking on that really.

I do think it's telling that men of high character can be completely ransacked and proof doesn't matter.

A man can bust his butt and endure God knows what for years and all it take are the dumbest rumors and people are fine with throwing them away.

Meanwhile other coaches can do other things the most vile type of stuff and people will do the we all make mistakes, be against cancel culture and all of that. You know get caught with blackface or something like that. But that's separate too.

As far as a new coach comes in and the main complaint is drops for 3 games and then we have one good game and it's the wr coach did this, and he gave them focus and all of that. It's just funny to me. Like I said even if you believe it then it means he sat and watched the group struggle when he had stuff that could have fixed things.....but I know it's not true.

Things like people saying the wr's weren't running correct routes and now they are.....It's just so made up and people go along with it. But I know a bunch of it is personal as well but just one more time. The notion of the youngest least experienced group getting better over time had rebuttal but the Zen making them focus more because the coach knows more and I guess different drills thing is accepted.....

I mean whatever floats your boat. I just imagine if the latter was true he'd be able to write his own ticket in the NFL, yet along college and wouldn't be analyst do me a favor now position coach. 

If the wr's have a bad game in the future with drops do you think anybody is going to have anything to say about the wr coach? What's your opinion?

Edited by cole256
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2 hours ago, DAG said:

It’s multiple things including the new WR coach being very familiar with CBH. Familiarity is low key very important . I think CBH is really understanding that. I can’t wait to see him bring a few more guys in his coaching staff. 

DAG, are there specific positions you'd like to see him find new coaches for?  

 

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3 hours ago, cole256 said:

If the wr's have a bad game in the future with drops do you think anybody is going to have anything to say about the wr coach? What's your opinion?

There's been this almost frantic and desperate need by SOME (not even most) fans to present Harsin's decision making as bulletproof, and not even allowing space to critique poor performing hires as being decisions that came from him. That's not just a Gus thing, that's every hire. 

When Corn "failed", it was "he might've been forced onto him", or "it was an experiment", or a 100 different things other than his hiring rationale wasn't good there, and I guess many people view Kiseau's relationship with him as being proof that Harsin hasn't messed up yet, because he still got his guy in ultimately and the verdict is still out. I dunno, I can't get too deep into people's psychology.

I myself, I think it's going to come back around if we ever do get into needing local coaches and if the behind the scenes seems as nepotistic as it does to me. That's the concept I hate the most in coaching. Luke Walton had control of the Los Angeles Lakers and was basically giving his college buddies analyst jobs. ALL the resources in the world...and that. I feel like we never really got experimental with these offensive hires. 

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I think there have been several good points by many of you.  I do wanna add one thing that I believe to be a factor as well.  

Teaching, everyone can do it, most people very poorly, some good and very few are great at it.  We have all been in situations where two people explain the same thing and one person makes it so simple and the other confuses the heck out of you.  I am not saying Coach Williams confused the guys, but I do believe Coach Kiseau as a teacher and his experience in the system have allowed him to speed up the trajectory of the WR production along with multiple other factors from Bo being better, more experience and reps in the system, better play calling as the coaches learn the players in game film.  It will be interesting to see how they respond as individuals and a unit to a drop or two.  Does it get in their heads or not?  

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5 hours ago, japantiger said:

DAG, are there specific positions you'd like to see him find new coaches for?  

 

Personally,

not at the moment but I am not going to cry once Bobo and CDM moves on. I think those guys were bought in for their experience , but specifically their SEC knowledge. I believe it was a strategic move from CBH and it makes 110 percent sense. It’s like a new administrator coming in..they won’t bring in all of their guys initially but eventually If their vision works out , they will have the credibility to shift some chairs. You Know?

 

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11 hours ago, DAG said:

Personally,

not at the moment but I am not going to cry once Bobo and CDM moves on. I think those guys were bought in for their experience , but specifically their SEC knowledge. I believe it was a strategic move from CBH and it makes 110 percent sense. It’s like a new administrator coming in..they won’t bring in all of their guys initially but eventually If their vision works out , they will have the credibility to shift some chairs. You Know?

 

Makes sense.  I haven't been blown away by Bobo's scheming (especially at Penn St); but 8-12 drops in some games buys him a lot of slack.  People have largely been in position to make plays.   Recruiting will eventually tell the tale on whether these moves early paid off or not.

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On 10/28/2021 at 6:22 PM, Hank2020 said:

I have no iron in this fire but believe the actual is most probably in the middle of both points. Agree WR’s are getting more experience, and I also believe coaching is making a difference, both in WR’s and in Bo.

I think you're probably right, but what's wild is we really have no idea what's going on in practice and coach key has always been there working with the WRs. It's not like he's a brand new voice who just came in. He's always been there.

Lean a little bit towards @cole256 view, especially since they are all so you g and inexperienced 

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On 10/29/2021 at 2:36 AM, Chaotic_zx said:

I assume he is an OC in waiting

With this in mind. Where is Bobo going? He's 2 years out from being fired from a lower their school. Feel like he'd realistically need 4+ years of elite offenses before his name is mentioned again for any G5 schools.

That's a long time to wait as a WR coach. Especially when the gap in pay is so large.

Unless they are bad and need to be fired. I'm not sure Bobo/Mason are going anywhere in the next 3 years

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6 hours ago, japantiger said:

Makes sense.  I haven't been blown away by Bobo's scheming (especially at Penn St); but 8-12 drops in some games buys him a lot of slack.  People have largely been in position to make plays.   Recruiting will eventually tell the tale on whether these moves early paid off or not.

I was underwhelmed with Bobo's hire. U think he's done pretty well though.  As you mentioned, we always have guys open. Running game has been bad. Not sure if that's Bobo or the OL 

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On 10/28/2021 at 10:26 PM, Dual-Threat Rigby said:

You can’t teach someone catching in a couple weeks per se, but it’s definitely clear that their focus has increased exponentially. I don’t know how much of that is him, or whatever else, but if the coaching staff feels more comfortable with him and things have improved, them it be what it be to me 

I wanna give the improvement props AND still recognize there was a clear foible in the whole Corn process. I think you (general you) can do both 

I’m guessing they knew how to catch when they were recruited….right? It would be interesting to know how they got off and back on the rails.

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