Brandon Strikes Again

[homersapien 11,366]

 

Which a year or so ago with the first variants I said there's no point of the vaccine if they can't keep up with the variants. By the time they come up with a new version covid is like Bill Belicheck and on to the next already. My stance has been all these boosters and people getting vaccinated for the first time now are not very well protected, hence why I say the effectiveness is being overplayed. 63% is not good. 

So, what's your ultimate point? Do you have one?

Edited August 3, 2022 by homersapien

[wdefromtx 3,159]

 

So, what's your ultimate point? Do you have one?

The vaccines were overhyped and under delivered. 
 

But hey, it’s a pandemic of the unvaccinated right? 

[homersapien 11,366]

 

The vaccines were overhyped and under delivered. 
 

But hey, it’s a pandemic of the unvaccinated right? 

Why?  What's your explanation about the cause of that?

(Please be specific.)

[wdefromtx 3,159]

 

Why?  What's your explanation about the cause of that?

(Please be specific.)

Why? 63% effectiveness after 3 doses is underwhelming compared to the hype. 
 

By the time it was released new variants were already emerging. It’s effectiveness was already destined to rapidly decline from the beginning.

[Leftfield 2,593]

 

Why? 63% effectiveness after 3 doses is underwhelming compared to the hype. 
 

By the time it was released new variants were already emerging. It’s effectiveness was already destined to rapidly decline from the beginning.

So the millions of people that were saved by it, when the efficacy was higher and the strains more dangerous, means it was overhyped?

[wdefromtx 3,159]

 

So the millions of people that were saved by it, when the efficacy was higher and the strains more dangerous, means it was overhyped?

Millions saved? How did you come up with that number? 
 

Please show the data on cases they know for sure it saved their lives. 

[Leftfield 2,593]

 

Millions saved? How did you come up with that number? 
 

Please show the data on cases they know for sure it saved their lives. 

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/covid-19-vaccine-saved-nearly-20-million-lives-in-a-year-study-says/&ved=2ahUKEwj_vbrSpa75AhXMkGoFHa_gBZEQFnoECCwQAQ&usg=AOvVaw2o7mSj2yUv1Un_0b4josOB

[homersapien 11,366]

 

Why? 63% effectiveness after 3 doses is underwhelming compared to the hype. 
 

By the time it was released new variants were already emerging. It’s effectiveness was already destined to rapidly decline from the beginning.

And your point is......

[creed 1,635]

 

Why? 63% effectiveness after 3 doses is underwhelming compared to the hype. 
 

By the time it was released new variants were already emerging. It’s effectiveness was already destined to rapidly decline from the beginning.

Effectiveness….what does that really mean? What is the data and where did it come from to support this claim? Thin air is not a valid source. 

[wdefromtx 3,159]

 

Effectiveness….what does that really mean? What is the data and where did it come from to support this claim? Thin air is not a valid source. 

Refer to the CDC, that is where the data came from. 63% after 3 doses, if that is what you consider great for effectiveness of a vaccine then that’s your opinion.
 

 

Edited August 5, 2022 by wdefromtx

[I_M4_AU 7,799]

 

Refer to the CDC, that is where the data came from. 63% after 3 doses, if that is what you consider great for effectiveness of a vaccine then that’s your opinion.
 

 

It’s actually enough effectiveness to issue a vaccine mandate according to the Brandon Administration. 

[Leftfield 2,593]

 

It’s actually enough effectiveness to issue a vaccine mandate according to the Brandon Administration. 

Oh, really? Biden is issuing a mandate right now?

[I_M4_AU 7,799]

 

Oh, really? Biden is issuing a mandate right now?

Come on man, he had his mandate until the SCOTUS shut it down and he still has his mandate for the military.  He is an authoritarian.

[Leftfield 2,593]

 

Come on man, he had his mandate until the SCOTUS shut it down and he still has his mandate for the military.  He is an authoritarian.

He issued the mandate before Omicron, when the vaccine was far more effective at preventing the disease, and the disease was more dangerous. You're being dishonest.

And if you had a problem with authoritarians there is no possible way you would support Trump over Biden.

[I_M4_AU 7,799]

 

He issued the mandate before Omicron, when the vaccine was far more effective at preventing the disease, and the disease was more dangerous. You're being dishonest.

And if you had a problem with authoritarians there is no possible way you would support Trump over Biden.

Yes he did talk about the mandate when the vaccine was more effective, but he didn’t get it in to practice until the lack of effectiveness was known and he went through with it anyway.  Fauci and his cronies knew the subsequent variants would differ and be less dangerous.  Why would Brandon follow through with something that had a high probability of not working?  He does not adjust to current conditions in any of his policies.

Brandon is being dishonest as usual. Brandon is way more of an authoritarian than Trump, I know you can’t see it, but he is.

[Leftfield 2,593]

 

Yes he did talk about the mandate when the vaccine was more effective, but he didn’t get it in to practice until the lack of effectiveness was known and he went through with it anyway.  

He attempted to issue the mandate in September 2021. Omicron didn't emerge in the US until December.

 

 Fauci and his cronies knew the subsequent variants would differ and be less dangerous.  Why would Brandon follow through with something that had a high probability of not working?  He does not adjust to current conditions in any of his policies.

1. It would be stupid not to push for a vaccine that works now and will save lives even if you believe it will be less effective on future variants. As you know, along with the expectation that it would be less effective, the expectation was also that it would be less dangerous as it evolved, as tends to be the case. So, the choice is to continue to let ignorant people spread misinformation that leads millions to not get vaccinated and put everyone at risk, or issue a mandate so more of the population is protecting against spread and severe disease and, therefore, further death, severe and long-lasting illness, intense pressure on hospitals and medical facilities, and faster mutation of the disease. But then, why sacrifice freedom from another vaccine for the rest of the scumbags out there that nobody cares about, 'cause 'Merica.

2. The vaccine does not have a high probability of not working. It is not as effective now, but as shown, that effectiveness is 63%. Apparently your math is impaired, because that is still a better than 50/50 chance. And again, there was no way to know how effective it would be against future variants, but you don't hold something back to save people now just because it may not save them later. That really doesn't make sense to you?

 

 

 Brandon is way more of an authoritarian than Trump, I know you can’t see it, but he is.

The problem with the entire Trump movement....live in an alternate reality. 

[I_M4_AU 7,799]

 

He attempted to issue the mandate in September 2021. Omicron didn't emerge in the US until December.

1. It would be stupid not to push for a vaccine that works now and will save lives even if you believe it will be less effective on future variants. As you know, along with the expectation that it would be less effective, the expectation was also that it would be less dangerous as it evolved, as tends to be the case. So, the choice is to continue to let ignorant people spread misinformation that leads millions to not get vaccinated and put everyone at risk, or issue a mandate so more of the population is protecting against spread and severe disease and, therefore, further death, severe and long-lasting illness, intense pressure on hospitals and medical facilities, and faster mutation of the disease. But then, why sacrifice freedom from another vaccine for the rest of the scumbags out there that nobody cares about, 'cause 'Merica.

2. The vaccine does not have a high probability of not working. It is not as effective now, but as shown, that effectiveness is 63%. Apparently your math is impaired, because that is still a better than 50/50 chance. And again, there was no way to know how effective it would be against future variants, but you don't hold something back to save people now just because it may not save them later. That really doesn't make sense to you?

The problem with the entire Trump movement....live in an alternate reality. 

What he did is use OSHA as a vehicle to cram down his mandate because he knew he couldn’t use his favorite tool, the EO.  By September it was known the effectiveness was waning and his OSHA mandate did not have any consideration for working conditions (outside and/or working alone).  It was rushed and not thought out.  Why?  Was this bipartisan?  Was it necessary as people were getting vaccinated without this mandate, it just wasn’t as fast as Brandon wanted it to.

1) Pushing is one thing, mandatory is another.  It interesting that there is a new law suit has been filed alleging collusion from the Biden administration over restricting free speech during the pandemic:

It’s no secret that Big Tech companies have censored dissenting views about COVID since the pandemic unfolded in spring 2020.

Twitter, Facebook, Google-owned YouTube and others have ensured that only specific narratives are allowed on their platforms; namely that masks work, the lab leak is a conspiracy theory, and that any questioning of the effectiveness of the vaccines is unacceptable.

Corporations choosing to insert themselves where they don’t belong by picking a side in important societal debates is insidious enough. But what’s worse is that it appears that the federal government directed these companies to silence private citizens who dared question their mandates.

But several prominent experts are joining the fight against government imposed censorship by signing on to a lawsuit against President Biden and other government figures, which alleges that the administration violated the First Amendment:

“Public statements, emails, and recent publicly released documents establish that the President of the United States and other senior officials in the Biden Administration violated the First Amendment by directing social-media companies to censor viewpoints that conflict with the government’s messaging on Covid-19.”

https://www.outkick.com/doctors-scientists-sue-government-for-censoring-speech-during-covid-pandemic/

What you call misinformation was squelched by the Brandon administration’s authoritarian policies for the good of Americans.

2)  My math is pretty good. The 50/50 bar is low at best.  63% doesn’t get me past the vaccine being worth the risk.  I get to determine that, not Brandon.  I got the original 2 dose vaccine, but will not get the boosters, again my choice.  It’s interesting that even the medical community does not require the boosters for admittance to hospitals or medical offices.

We have learned to live with this virus and the fear mongering is over for most people.  As always, protect yourself and live your life, but not it fear.

Is your reality Brandon’s reality?  Living in fear unless Brandon says you don’t need to?  Make sure you get the Monkeypox vaccine even though your lifestyle doesn’t put you at risk.

 

[homersapien 11,366]

 

Refer to the CDC, that is where the data came from. 63% after 3 doses, if that is what you consider great for effectiveness of a vaccine then that’s your opinion.
 

 

A 63% increase in effectiveness of preventing infection - or death -  from a disease (over doing nothing) is certainly worthwhile to me.

Again, what is your suggestion?  We should ignore vaccination because it's not better?

Edited August 5, 2022 by homersapien

[Leftfield 2,593]

 

What he did is use OSHA as a vehicle to cram down his mandate because he knew he couldn’t use his favorite tool, the EO.  

So?

 

By September it was known the effectiveness was waning and his OSHA mandate did not have any consideration for working conditions (outside and/or working alone).  It was rushed and not thought out.  Why?  Was this bipartisan?  Was it necessary as people were getting vaccinated without this mandate, it just wasn’t as fast as Brandon wanted it to.

At that point the effectiveness at preventing infection had not dropped much, and it was still highly effective at preventing severe illness, hospitalization, and death. You're saying it wasn't worth trying to protect a huge portion of the population, even if it was from themselves?

And are working conditions the only consideration? Not like people only see others at work. There were still millions that thought the vaccines and masks weren't worth it (or just wanted to stick it to the Democrats), so they were freely walking around and spreading it to others. You act like Biden shouldn't have tried anything. And don't say he should have tried persuasion, because the vast majority of those that disagree, like you, would never have listened to him no matter what he said. Even if he could have persuaded a significant portion of the doubters, it would have taken months, at which point thousands more would have died. 

 

1) Pushing is one thing, mandatory is another.  It interesting that there is a new law suit has been filed alleging collusion from the Biden administration over restricting free speech during the pandemic:

It’s no secret that Big Tech companies have censored dissenting views about COVID since the pandemic unfolded in spring 2020.

Twitter, Facebook, Google-owned YouTube and others have ensured that only specific narratives are allowed on their platforms; namely that masks work, the lab leak is a conspiracy theory, and that any questioning of the effectiveness of the vaccines is unacceptable.

Corporations choosing to insert themselves where they don’t belong by picking a side in important societal debates is insidious enough. But what’s worse is that it appears that the federal government directed these companies to silence private citizens who dared question their mandates.

But several prominent experts are joining the fight against government imposed censorship by signing on to a lawsuit against President Biden and other government figures, which alleges that the administration violated the First Amendment:

“Public statements, emails, and recent publicly released documents establish that the President of the United States and other senior officials in the Biden Administration violated the First Amendment by directing social-media companies to censor viewpoints that conflict with the government’s messaging on Covid-19.”

https://www.outkick.com/doctors-scientists-sue-government-for-censoring-speech-during-covid-pandemic/

Convicting him before it even goes to trial, yet you defend Trump because nothing has yet been proven in a court of law. Can you be any more transparent?

And Clay Travis? Really?

 

What you call misinformation was squelched by the Brandon administration’s authoritarian policies for the good of Americans.

I call it misinformation because it's misinformation. Do you think all speech should be free speech? All for freedom and nothing for responsibility is not how a functioning, lasting society works.

 

 

2)  My math is pretty good. The 50/50 bar is low at best.  63% doesn’t get me past the vaccine being worth the risk.  I get to determine that, not Brandon.  I got the original 2 dose vaccine, but will not get the boosters, again my choice.  It’s interesting that even the medical community does not require the boosters for admittance to hospitals or medical offices.

 

You said high probability of not working. 37% is not a high probability of not working, so no, your math is not good.

You keep changing the timeline. When have I, or anyone, said that the vaccine should be mandated now? It's clear that it's not as effective as it was, but the variants also are not as dangerous. The vast majority of the population has now either been vaccinated or already had Covid and has some level of protection. Why are you not celebrating the fact that the medical community is easing restrictions instead of criticizing them for it? Is it because "it just didn't happen as fast as" you "wanted it to?"

 

 

We have learned to live with this virus and the fear mongering is over for most people.  As always, protect yourself and live your life, but not it fear.

 

Not a single person on this forum, or anywhere else that I've seen, has ever denied that we would eventually ease into a steady-state with this, but just because it didn't affect you at the time does not mean that there was fear-mongering going on. You also continue to call it living in fear, instead of taking reasonable precautions against something that presented a genuine danger. Just because you didn't recognize that danger does not mean you're brave.

 

Is your reality Brandon’s reality?  Living in fear unless Brandon says you don’t need to?  Make sure you get the Monkeypox vaccine even though your lifestyle doesn’t put you at risk.

Not sure if it's Biden's reality, but it certainly isn't Trump's or his supporters who, like you, feel that his actions were justified and there's no way he was an authoritarian. I never lived in fear, I just did what was recommended to protect myself, my family, and others, because I feel I have a responsibility to those around me, whether I know them or not. You clearly don't agree.

You asked if I would get the Monkeypox vaccine if the CDC recommended it. I said I would. I did not say I would get it no matter what. If the CDC recommended it, it would surely be because they feel society at large was at risk. If there is only a segment of the population at risk, then they will recommend it for those people, just as they've done for other vaccines. If there is no recommendation, I will continue to read about it, and if I feel there is a significant risk for me, my family, or those around me, I'll get vaccinated. See how that works?

By the way, keep calling him Brandon. That's certainly putting intelligence points in your corner. Really reinforces the brilliance of your arguments.

[I_M4_AU 7,799]

 

So?

At that point the effectiveness at preventing infection had not dropped much, and it was still highly effective at preventing severe illness, hospitalization, and death. You're saying it wasn't worth trying to protect a huge portion of the population, even if it was from themselves?

And are working conditions the only consideration? Not like people only see others at work. There were still millions that thought the vaccines and masks weren't worth it (or just wanted to stick it to the Democrats), so they were freely walking around and spreading it to others. You act like Biden shouldn't have tried anything. And don't say he should have tried persuasion, because the vast majority of those that disagree, like you, would never have listened to him no matter what he said. Even if he could have persuaded a significant portion of the doubters, it would have taken months, at which point thousands more would have died. 

Convicting him before it even goes to trial, yet you defend Trump because nothing has yet been proven in a court of law. Can you be any more transparent?

And Clay Travis? Really?

I call it misinformation because it's misinformation. Do you think all speech should be free speech? All for freedom and nothing for responsibility is not how a functioning, lasting society works.

You said high probability of not working. 37% is not a high probability of not working, so no, your math is not good.

You keep changing the timeline. When have I, or anyone, said that the vaccine should be mandated now? It's clear that it's not as effective as it was, but the variants also are not as dangerous. The vast majority of the population has now either been vaccinated or already had Covid and has some level of protection. Why are you not celebrating the fact that the medical community is easing restrictions instead of criticizing them for it? Is it because "it just didn't happen as fast as" you "wanted it to?"

Not a single person on this forum, or anywhere else that I've seen, has ever denied that we would eventually ease into a steady-state with this, but just because it didn't affect you at the time does not mean that there was fear-mongering going on. You also continue to call it living in fear, instead of taking reasonable precautions against something that presented a genuine danger. Just because you didn't recognize that danger does not mean you're brave.

Not sure if it's Biden's reality, but it certainly isn't Trump's or his supporters who, like you, feel that his actions were justified and there's no way he was an authoritarian. I never lived in fear, I just did what was recommended to protect myself, my family, and others, because I feel I have a responsibility to those around me, whether I know them or not. You clearly don't agree.

You asked if I would get the Monkeypox vaccine if the CDC recommended it. I said I would. I did not say I would get it no matter what. If the CDC recommended it, it would surely be because they feel society at large was at risk. If there is only a segment of the population at risk, then they will recommend it for those people, just as they've done for other vaccines. If there is no recommendation, I will continue to read about it, and if I feel there is a significant risk for me, my family, or those around me, I'll get vaccinated. See how that works?

By the way, keep calling him Brandon. That's certainly putting intelligence points in your corner. Really reinforces the brilliance of your arguments.

So?  It was a work around that was disingenuous.  He can’t be anymore deceitful.

No, Im not saying it not worth trying, what I am saying it is up to the individual to make that decision, not Brandon.

Working conditions were important because Brandon used OHSA for his vehicle to cram down his mandate.  Of course he could try whatever works, but mandatory inoculations for the flu should be beyond what was necessary IMO.

I disagreed with his methods, but I got the vaccine anyway as, at the time, it was the prudent thing to do given I would not get the virus or spread the virus as promised.  That didn’t turn out to be true, like a lot of things he says.

I am not convicting him of anything, I will leave that to someone else, I just don’t trust him.

Are you disagreeing with the source or do you not believe what Clay Travis reports, because the law suit is real.  It’s only misinformation because Brandon and his cronies labeled is so and got social media to go along with it.  The law suit may not amount to much but it could effect future administrations from controlling the narrative.  Thank God the Ministry of Truth didn’t get off the ground.

You changed the timeline when you said you haven’t called for the vaccine to be mandatory NOW.  You might not have called for it to be mandatory, but there were posters on here angry at anyone that was not vaccinated and one even said they would not be sorry if all the unvaccinated died.  The ONLY reason it isn’t mandatory now is because of the SCOTUS, not because of Brandon and his administration.

I’m not criticizing the medical community, I’m glad they are finally seeing the light.  Again, I got the jab, so I did take precautions and got back to living my life by not living in fear of the virus.

You still believe the CDC will make recommendation based on science?

[wdefromtx 3,159]

 

A 63% increase in effectiveness of preventing infection - or death -  from a disease (over doing nothing) is certainly worthwhile to me.

Again, what is your suggestion?  We should ignore vaccination because it's not better?

You answered your own question with your response. You say that 63% after three doses is good enough for you to get it. That is great, but that may not be enough for someone else to say the benefit outweighs the risks. 

My suggestion was and still is that there never should have been a mandate and trying to force the vaccine on everyone should have never happened. It should be targeted for the most vulnerable people. 

You would think democrats would embrace this way of thinking.....you know the whole "my body, my choice" way of thinking. 

BTW, the CDC left out the %% of sickness after only two doses. Makes me think it is substantially less than 63%. 

 

[creed 1,635]

 

Refer to the CDC, that is where the data came from. 63% after 3 doses, if that is what you consider great for effectiveness of a vaccine then that’s your opinion.
 

 

Well here's additional detailed effectiveness after 3 doses of rRNA.

86% to 90% effective against hospitalization for adults.

83% effective against emergency depart or urgent care visit for adults.

94% effective against invasive mechanical ventilation.

 

So again I asked what particular effectiveness are you referring to?

Edited August 5, 2022 by creed

[wdefromtx 3,159]

 

Well here's additional detailed effectiveness after 3 doses of rRNA.

86% to 90% effective against hospitalization for adults.

83% effective against emergency depart or urgent care visit for adults.

94% effective against invasive mechanical ventilation.

Yeah, I have already listed the 94% against IMV/death. Not so impressive is it compared to most other vaccines?

I have always been comparing prevention of contracting illness between the vaccines. Preventing you from getting sick is what the CDC states the purpose of most other vaccines. 

Edited August 5, 2022 by wdefromtx

[homersapien 11,366]

 

You answered your own question with your response. You say that 63% after three doses is good enough for you to get it. That is great, but that may not be enough for someone else to say the benefit outweighs the risks. 

My suggestion was and still is that there never should have been a mandate and trying to force the vaccine on everyone should have never happened. It should be targeted for the most vulnerable people. 

You would think democrats would embrace this way of thinking.....you know the whole "my body, my choice" way of thinking. 

BTW, the CDC left out the %% of sickness after only two doses. Makes me think it is substantially less than 63%. 

 

Well, practically speaking, the mandate never really succeeded in forcing vaccinations on people who didn't want them.  In practical terms, it turned out to be more of a persuasion tactic than the sort of heavy handed use of legal coercion as you seem to think it was.

As a democracy, we are facing far more authoritarian threats than what you perceived to be associated with vaccine mandates.

Here's some interesting background reading on the matter:

https://journalofethics.ama-assn.org/article/when-are-vaccine-mandates-appropriate/2020-01

When Are Vaccine Mandates Appropriate?

 

https://www.healthaffairs.org/do/10.1377/forefront.20220303.102051/

COVID-19 Vaccine Mandates At The Supreme Court: Scope And Limits Of Federal Authority

 

As for my body, my choice "way of thinking",  personal reproductive choices are one thing, vaccinations to prevent disease caused mass fatalities in our society are quite another.

 

[creed 1,635]

 

Yeah, I have already listed the 94% against IMV/death. Not so impressive is it compared to most other vaccines?

I have always been comparing prevention of contracting illness between the vaccines. Preventing you from getting sick is what the CDC states the purpose of most other vaccines. 

So in your opinion why is this vaccine not so impressive versus other vaccines?