Brandon Strikes Again

[AU9377 4,913]

On 8/1/2022 at 10:17 AM, I_M4_AU said:

So your point is to stick your head in the sand as to the history of Biden’s vaccine mandate that was found unconstitutional and should have never been enacted?

I’m fully vaccinated and also have never gotten the virus, but I don’t assume it was all because of the vaccine as I have not idea if it helped and you don’t either.  I haven’t had the boosters either, its’ interesting that the medical establishment I’ve been to doesn’t ask if you have been boosted, just that you have the original vaccine.  My PCP didn’t even suggest I get the boosters and I’m 72.

As I asked Leftfield; if the CDC recommended you get the Monkeypox vaccine, would you get it?

We know for a fact that the vaccines helped immensely.  Without them, hospitals would likely still be over run with Covid patients and the number of deaths would be several hundred thousand higher than the million plus that have died to date.

[AU9377 4,913]

On 8/6/2022 at 1:10 PM, I_M4_AU said:

You mentioned Monkeypox; do you know this has been declared a national health emergency by the Biden Administration?

During COVID, the national health emergency required all of America to shelter in place for 15 days to slow the spread as it was an airborne contagion.

Monkeypox, on the other hand, is spread by skin to skin exposure over an extended time.  There is no edict to shelter in place, or even stop skin to skin exposure over an extended period of time.  The CDC just says *be careful out there*.

I am not concerned about Monkeypox because I only have extended skin to skin contact with my wife of 48 years and I do not worry that I will contract it from the people I shake hands with or a quick hug.

The point is the CDC had no idea how to handle COVID and went to the extreme at first.  This, along with the media coverage, created a deep concern about COVID.  For some reason, even though Monkeypox is a national health emergency, there is no extreme measure the CDC is willing to take.

If you will remember, in June of 2020 while the riots were taking place (a short two months after the shelter in place order was lifted) and concern was high with transmission of COVID with close contact with other people, the medical community wrote an open letter stating protesting racial discrimination was worth the risk of spreading COVID.  NYC, while contact tracing was a thing, instructed the tracers not to ask the people that contracted COVID if they were at any protests.

The CDC and the medical community has prioritized politics over science.  They sugar coat everything and do not give us good, down to earth solutions to live by.  It is up to the individual to protect themselves with all available information they can get.

This is from the California Department of Public Health:

We have also amassed a great deal of information regarding who is at risk. As of August 2, California’s Department of Public Health has reported that among its approximately 1,135 statewide cases of monkeypox, 14 have been hospitalized for the infection, with the vast majority of patients being aged between 25 and 44 years. From among the monkeypox cases with available data, 98.8% have been reported in male or transgender male individuals, with 97.2% of infected individuals identifying as gay, lesbian, or bisexual. Given this information, California’s public health website states: “While it’s good to stay alert about emerging public health outbreaks, the current risk of getting monkeypox in the general public is very low.”

You might want to curb your time with DKW for awhile.  

Monkeypox is also not spread as easily and no where near as deadly as Covid. It is an apples and oranges comparison.

[I_M4_AU 7,762]

1 hour ago, AU9377 said:

Monkeypox is also not spread as easily and no where near as deadly as Covid. It is an apples and oranges comparison.

That was not the question.  I asked if the CDC suggested you get the vaccine would you get it?  In other words do you believe what the CDC says even though you may not be at high risk for the disease?

[Didba 5,256]

2 hours ago, I_M4_AU said:

That was not the question.  I asked if the CDC suggested you get the vaccine would you get it?  In other words do you believe what the CDC says even though you may not be at high risk for the disease?

Yes and yes. No different from getting a flu shot 

Edited August 29, 2022 by Didba

[Leftfield 2,583]

3 hours ago, I_M4_AU said:

In other words do you believe what the CDC says even though you may not be at high risk for the disease?

Has the CDC recommended the vaccine for those who aren't at high risk?

[DKW 86 7,410]

10 hours ago, Leftfield said:

Has the CDC recommended the vaccine for those who aren't at high risk?

Why yes. They did good work for the most part, but asking the public to vaccinate children under 10- and especially under 5 is clearly bad science. These kids are not at risk in any real way.

[I_M4_AU 7,762]

11 hours ago, Didba said:

Yes and yes. No different from getting a flu shot 

Mindlessly obedient.  The CDC did not do its reputation any favors during the COVID pandemic.

[CoffeeTiger 5,082]

On 8/26/2022 at 10:20 AM, I_M4_AU said:

The great unifier:

 

 

[Leftfield 2,583]

1 hour ago, DKW 86 said:

Why yes. They did good work for the most part, but asking the public to vaccinate children under 10- and especially under 5 is clearly bad science. These kids are not at risk in any real way.

Sounds like you're referring to Covid? I was referring to Monkey Pox, since that was what he was talking about. 

With Covid, vaccinating kids was not bad science. It's true, they were at lower risk, but vaccinations are not only about protecting the person receiving the vaccination: they help to prevent spread, particularly with something as contagious as Covid. Even when the vaccine's effectiveness at preventing infection dropped, it still helped to limit spread, and the risk to children from Covid was still higher than the risk from the vaccine.

 

[DKW 86 7,410]

1 hour ago, Leftfield said:

Sounds like you're referring to Covid? I was referring to Monkey Pox, since that was what he was talking about. 

With Covid, vaccinating kids was not bad science. It's true, they were at lower risk, but vaccinations are not only about protecting the person receiving the vaccination: they help to prevent spread, particularly with something as contagious as Covid. Even when the vaccine's effectiveness at preventing infection dropped, it still helped to limit spread, and the risk to children from Covid was still higher than the risk from the vaccine.

 

And here is where we get into the squishy levels of comfort. Look COVID vac for kids was sold as necessary TO PROTECT THEM, not the rest of the population. 

[Didba 5,256]

4 hours ago, I_M4_AU said:

Mindlessly obedient.  The CDC did not do its reputation any favors during the COVID pandemic.

If mindlessly obedience is trusting medical experts with degrees and medical licenses who are way more qualified than I am regarding medical issues then sure I am mindless obedient until given a reason not to be. 

Edited August 29, 2022 by Didba

[Didba 5,256]

3 hours ago, CoffeeTiger said:

ugh... on one hand this is a funny meme, on the other hand Homelander is a conservative caricature...

[Leftfield 2,583]

1 hour ago, DKW 86 said:

And here is where we get into the squishy levels of comfort. Look COVID vac for kids was sold as necessary TO PROTECT THEM, not the rest of the population. 

O....k? That wasn't not true.

Also, how does that make it bad science?

[I_M4_AU 7,762]

37 minutes ago, Didba said:

If mindlessly obedience is trusting medical experts with degrees and medical licenses who are way more qualified than I am regarding medical issues then sure I am mindless obedient until given a reason not to be. 

To the bold part:  There in lies the rub.  When *the science* pushes the COVID vaccine when it appears effective is one thing.  When conditions change and still push the vaccine when the effectiveness has waned to the point to mandate that same vaccine is not science, it’s political.

When recommending a vaccine and not informing the public who the vulnerable people are because it may stigmatize that group, is not science, its political.

[I_M4_AU 7,762]

3 hours ago, CoffeeTiger said:

Popularity over country; got it. Just as I thought.

[Didba 5,256]

2 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

To the bold part:  There in lies the rub.  When *the science* pushes the COVID vaccine when it appears effective is one thing.  When conditions change and still push the vaccine when the effectiveness has waned to the point to mandate that same vaccine is not science, it’s political.

When recommending a vaccine and not informing the public who the vulnerable people are because it may stigmatize that group, is not science, its political.

You feel like the CDC has given you a reason.  I don't. Neither is wrong. We just view things differently.

[I_M4_AU 7,762]

1 hour ago, Didba said:

You feel like the CDC has given you a reason.  I don't. Neither is wrong. We just view things differently.

Agreed, its just when I and others would defend the unvaccinated for their choice not to get vaccinated, it was the as if we were single-handedly passing on misinformation that would kill people.  It is a persons choice based on their own circumstances.

ETA: credit to others that had the same view about the COVID vaccine.

Edited August 29, 2022 by I_M4_AU

[jj3jordan 2,039]

8 hours ago, Leftfield said:

Sounds like you're referring to Covid? I was referring to Monkey Pox, since that was what he was talking about. 

With Covid, vaccinating kids was not bad science. It's true, they were at lower risk, but vaccinations are not only about protecting the person receiving the vaccination: they help to prevent spread, particularly with something as contagious as Covid. Even when the vaccine's effectiveness at preventing infection dropped, it still helped to limit spread, and the risk to children from Covid was still higher than the risk from the vaccine.

 

Does not prevent spread.

[Leftfield 2,583]

1 hour ago, jj3jordan said:

Does not prevent spread.

Please present your evidence for this.

[jj3jordan 2,039]

1 hour ago, Leftfield said:

Please present your evidence for this.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-risk-of-vaccinated-covid-transmission-is-not-low/?amp=true
 

How many you want?

[Leftfield 2,583]

1 minute ago, jj3jordan said:

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-risk-of-vaccinated-covid-transmission-is-not-low/?amp=true
 

How many you want?

So, your response to my point about vaccination helping to prevent spread, which it does, is to point out that it isn't 100% effective at that, which everyone already knew and nobody has denied.

Brilliant. 

[Didba 5,256]

52 minutes ago, Leftfield said:

So, your response to my point about vaccination helping to prevent spread, which it does, is to point out that it isn't 100% effective at that, which everyone already knew and nobody has denied.

Brilliant. 

“I must emphasize that vaccinated people are several times less likely to be infected by Delta than unvaccinated people. As a result, they must still be less likely to transmit COVID than an unvaccinated person. Once infected, however, it appears to be a different story.”

 

from the very article he posted lol. 

[jj3jordan 2,039]

That is the gist. After vaccination and subsequent infection, transmission of the virus is not  controlled or even diminished.  Saying the vax reduces transmission because it prevents initial infection ( which is now also not reliable) is not a valid comparison.  There are plenty of articles explaining this. The one I posted clearly stated that vaxxed and infected does not prevent transmission.

[jj3jordan 2,039]

1 hour ago, Leftfield said:

So, your response to my point about vaccination helping to prevent spread, which it does, is to point out that it isn't 100% effective at that, which everyone already knew and nobody has denied.

Brilliant. 

No. I never said it is not 100%.

Sadly it is not even close. It actually makes it worse since the infected person thinks he is not able to spread it so he is not taking any precautions. Absolutes don’t work in a discussion. If that is your schtick you will lose every time.

 

[Leftfield 2,583]

36 minutes ago, jj3jordan said:

No. I never said it is not 100%.

And I never said it was 100%, hence why I said "helps" prevent spread.

39 minutes ago, jj3jordan said:

It actually makes it worse since the infected person thinks he is not able to spread it so he is not taking any precautions.

You mean like....wearing a mask? Gee, wonder what type of people were more likely to not be taking any other precautions? Couldn't have been the same ones downplaying the effectiveness of the vaccines, could it?

42 minutes ago, jj3jordan said:

Absolutes don’t work in a discussion. If that is your schtick you will lose every time.

Phew.....good thing I didn't!