Brandon Strikes Again

[I_M4_AU 7,788]

 

 

[pensacolatiger 313]

2 hours ago, Leftfield said:

It wasn't experimental. And when he issued the mandate it had been proven that it reduced transmission.

It's been discussed in other threads, but a president has expanded powers when a public health emergency is declared.

How long of a development would you have been comfortable with? Have you gotten vaccinated yet?

Considering how well this vaccine did, will you trust the next vaccine developed if it only takes 18 months?

But that was wrong, it does nothing to reduce transmission.  People were correct to question that data.

 

why in the hell would I even consider getting vaccinated now?  1600x the immunity when you get it vs the shot.  Why would someone even ask this question🤣

[Leftfield 2,592]

19 minutes ago, pensacolatiger said:

But that was wrong, it does nothing to reduce transmission.  People were correct to question that data.

But it does. It's not as effective against more recent strains, but it does still reduce the viral load.

20 minutes ago, pensacolatiger said:

1600x the immunity when you get it vs the shot.

Source?

[pensacolatiger 313]

30 minutes ago, Leftfield said:

But it does. It's not as effective against more recent strains, but it does still reduce the viral load.

Source?

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2118946
 

this is one of the studies confirming natural immunity is greater.  Don’t recall if this is the one 1600% was derived from

[Leftfield 2,592]

2 hours ago, pensacolatiger said:

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2118946
 

this is one of the studies confirming natural immunity is greater.  Don’t recall if this is the one 1600% was derived from

Yeah, that's the Israeli study. You're correct, it showed that natural immunity outpaced that with vaccination, though I'm curious where the 1600x figure you cited comes from. There are a few caveats, however:

• This was found to be true with the Delta variant only. It did not hold with other variants.
• Natural immunity increased when the person also received the vaccine, but more so when they had the vaccine before getting infected.
• The drawback from natural immunity being better with the Delta variant is the whole "you have to get the most dangerous strain of Covid in the first place" issue. 
• Most importantly: the original vaccine was not developed to fight the Delta variant, so it wasn't as effective for it. The Delta wave was relatively short lived. The vaccine boosters were released in September of 2021, just after the data for this study was gathered, so the more effective version of the vaccine for Delta wasn't yet available. 

So while partially correct, it doesn't tell the whole story. And it still would have made sense to get the vaccine before getting Covid, because it protected from severe illness. Natural immunity didn't do much good for those who died before they could get it.

 

 

[arein0 950]

29 minutes ago, Leftfield said:

Yeah, that's the Israeli study. You're correct, it showed that natural immunity outpaced that with vaccination, though I'm curious where the 1600x figure you cited comes from. There are a few caveats, however:

• This was found to be true with the Delta variant only. It did not hold with other variants.
• Natural immunity increased when the person also received the vaccine, but more so when they had the vaccine before getting infected.
• The drawback from natural immunity being better with the Delta variant is the whole "you have to get the most dangerous strain of Covid in the first place" issue. 
• Most importantly: the original vaccine was not developed to fight the Delta variant, so it wasn't as effective for it. The Delta wave was relatively short lived. The vaccine boosters were released in September of 2021, just after the data for this study was gathered, so the more effective version of the vaccine for Delta wasn't yet available. 

So while partially correct, it doesn't tell the whole story. And it still would have made sense to get the vaccine before getting Covid, because it protected from severe illness. Natural immunity didn't do much good for those who died before they could get it.

 

 

Also since COVID is a new virus, we have no idea the long term implications. Nobody knows if it will come back when you are older like chicken pox --> shingles.

[I_M4_AU 7,788]

 

 

[I_M4_AU 7,788]

 

 

[pensacolatiger 313]

On 10/21/2022 at 7:37 PM, Leftfield said:

Yeah, that's the Israeli study. You're correct, it showed that natural immunity outpaced that with vaccination, though I'm curious where the 1600x figure you cited comes from. There are a few caveats, however:

• This was found to be true with the Delta variant only. It did not hold with other variants.
• Natural immunity increased when the person also received the vaccine, but more so when they had the vaccine before getting infected.
• The drawback from natural immunity being better with the Delta variant is the whole "you have to get the most dangerous strain of Covid in the first place" issue. 
• Most importantly: the original vaccine was not developed to fight the Delta variant, so it wasn't as effective for it. The Delta wave was relatively short lived. The vaccine boosters were released in September of 2021, just after the data for this study was gathered, so the more effective version of the vaccine for Delta wasn't yet available. 

So while partially correct, it doesn't tell the whole story. And it still would have made sense to get the vaccine before getting Covid, because it protected from severe illness. Natural immunity didn't do much good for those who died before they could get it.

 

 

I still have 2 questions though:

1) I already had severe covid, why would I even consider a vaccine now?

2) if the govt’s objective was to protect us, why the attempts to mandate a vaccine that doesn’t prevent spread?  And not consider previous infection?

[Leftfield 2,592]

2 hours ago, pensacolatiger said:

I still have 2 questions though:

1) I already had severe covid, why would I even consider a vaccine now?

2) if the govt’s objective was to protect us, why the attempts to mandate a vaccine that doesn’t prevent spread?  And not consider previous infection?

Honest question: did you really read anything I wrote? Because you're still saying the vaccine doesn't prevent spread, even though that's demonstrably false. And why do you say that previous infection wasn't considered? It was absolutely considered, but aside from the narrow set circumstances in the study you posted, was found to not be as effective. It was also much more difficult to track, because plenty of people who'd had Covid may never have known, either because it was asymptomatic or they never got tested to verify.

I asked if you ever got vaccinated because you never said exactly when you were infected. Could have been early on and I was curious as to whether you got the later formulations and boosters that helped against more recent strains.

[pensacolatiger 313]

11 hours ago, Leftfield said:

Honest question: did you really read anything I wrote? Because you're still saying the vaccine doesn't prevent spread, even though that's demonstrably false. And why do you say that previous infection wasn't considered? It was absolutely considered, but aside from the narrow set circumstances in the study you posted, was found to not be as effective. It was also much more difficult to track, because plenty of people who'd had Covid may never have known, either because it was asymptomatic or they never got tested to verify.

I asked if you ever got vaccinated because you never said exactly when you were infected. Could have been early on and I was curious as to whether you got the later formulations and boosters that helped against more recent strains.

Because it doesn’t prevent spread.  I work in a large environment and everyone that’s getting it 3-4x is vaccinated.  You could argue viral load, but I don’t think the difference in load is sufficient to prevent or even slow spread 

[Leftfield 2,592]

3 minutes ago, pensacolatiger said:

Because it doesn’t prevent spread.  I work in a large environment and everyone that’s getting it 3-4x is vaccinated.  You could argue viral load, but I don’t think the difference in load is sufficient to prevent or even slow spread 

You don't think so, so clearly scientists and doctors don't know what they're talking about. Case closed 

[I_M4_AU 7,788]

 

 

[I_M4_AU 7,788]

 

Gun expert, Joe Biden.

[I_M4_AU 7,788]

1 hour ago, Leftfield said:

You don't think so, so clearly scientists and doctors don't know what they're talking about. Case closed 

 

It looks like the NY Supreme Court agrees that the vaccine does not stop the spread/

[pensacolatiger 313]

1 hour ago, I_M4_AU said:

 

It looks like the NY Supreme Court agrees that the vaccine does not stop the spread/

Don’t tell Leftfield🤣

[I_M4_AU 7,788]

5 hours ago, pensacolatiger said:

Don’t tell Leftfield🤣

Here is something else he won’t want to hear.

 

 

[pensacolatiger 313]

I don’t like to hate on folks for being wrong, I’ve been wrong about plenty of things in my life.  But the wannabe dr’s that have been criticizing and ridiculing me about “don’t be selfish” & “trust muh science”, I feel pretty good about giving them a hard time.

[Leftfield 2,592]

10 hours ago, I_M4_AU said:

 

It looks like the NY Supreme Court agrees that the vaccine does not stop the spread/

*sigh*

You didn't read it all, did you. This is not the win you think it is.

 

9 hours ago, pensacolatiger said:

Don’t tell Leftfield🤣

Tell me what? That you and I_M4 jump on headlines like a cat with a ball of string and don't bother to look beneath the surface?

 

[johnnyAU 3,630]

Biden/Harris is an epic failure. Many knew it would be. Out of the ashes of the last 2 regimes, can we not find a silver lining? It certainly does not look promising.

[I_M4_AU 7,788]

19 minutes ago, Leftfield said:

You didn't read it all, did you. This is not the win you think it is.

Please enlighten us.  They get there jobs back with back pay because the state didn’t have the power to take them away.  And the vaccines don’t prevent the spread, it was the reason for the mandate.  It is a win for those that were fired in NY.

[Leftfield 2,592]

7 hours ago, I_M4_AU said:

Please enlighten us.  They get there jobs back with back pay because the state didn’t have the power to take them away.  And the vaccines don’t prevent the spread, it was the reason for the mandate.  It is a win for those that were fired in NY.

Moving the goalposts...again.

Your full statement from your original post said "It looks like the NY Supreme Court agrees that the vaccine does not stop the spread/." That was it. Said nothing about the State not having the power to take their jobs away, which is a completely separate issue.

Since you're apparently too damn lazy to read the opinion, which was in the very tweet that you posted, you missed that the ruling was not based on anything about the vaccine. Hell, in his conclusion the judge himself wrote that the decision is "not a commentary on the efficacy of vaccination." Furthermore, right after the words ascribed to the judge about vaccines not preventing spread, he writes "We have learned through the course of the pandemic that the vaccine against Covid-19 is not absolute." That statement necessarily means the judge agrees that vaccination is effective to some degree. It also means that the author of the tweet, and you, are choosing to misconstrue his statement about not preventing spread as an absolute.

I'll also note that in a couple of areas the judge makes the mistake of conflating the Covid situation now with what it was when the mandates were initially issued.

As to the reason for his judgment, I can't speak to what powers are granted to the Mayor, so cannot give an educated opinion. I do agree with the judge that no exceptions should have been made for athletes or performers. To me that was a slap in the face to those who had been fired.

One last note: this was a judgment from one judge, not the full State Supreme Court. From my brief search I don't even think he's on the highest court, as the Richmond County Supreme Court is listed. I didn't see his name on the list of justices (https://www.nycourts.gov/ad3/justices.html).

TLDR:  1) The opinion was not based on the vaccine's effectiveness, 2) The judge's statement to effectiveness wasn't even the absolute you made it out to be, and was not the full State Supreme Court opinion, 3) Actually read the crap you post and stop wasting everyone's time.

 

 

 

[I_M4_AU 7,788]

@Leftfield, its just hard for you to admit that the CDC, Dr. Fauci (the man who would be king), Biden and *the science* all lied to the public about the COVID vaccine’s efficacy in order for the population to get vaccinated.  The lie was not really necessary, but for some reason they all conspired to do so.  The most outlandish part was Biden’s OSHA mandate and his subsequent war on the unvaccinated.  This is the man that holds a grudge and is not capable of leading a nation.

[Leftfield 2,592]

52 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

@Leftfield, its just hard for you to admit that the CDC, Dr. Fauci (the man who would be king), Biden and *the science* all lied to the public about the COVID vaccine’s efficacy in order for the population to get vaccinated.  The lie was not really necessary, but for some reason they all conspired to do so.  The most outlandish part was Biden’s OSHA mandate and his subsequent war on the unvaccinated.  This is the man that holds a grudge and is not capable of leading a nation.

And there it is, folks. The internet equivalent of:

Your entire argument is destroyed, and instead of admitting that mayyyyybe you didn't read the information it was based on, or even keeping your pie hole shut, you go back to your talking point comfort zone.

No, what's hard for me is seeing how many people just like you are out there, swallowing misinformation without a shred of thought or resistance, then passing it along and trying to turn people against the advice of those who are working hardest to protect them. It takes barely any effort for you to post a tweet like you did, but you don't have to bother reading it or thinking about it. You leave the thinking and reading to someone who actually cares about other people so they can show how it's hot garbage and hope that helps others keep some trust in our medical and scientific communities.

What you don't seem to get is it doesn't just cause harm now, but down the road when more people won't trust the next batch of medical advice. And yes, it still causes harm now because even though the threat from Covid is far lower, it's not non-existent. Flu and RSV season, as you've probably seen, are kicking into high gear, so the fewer people in the high-risk categories that don't get vaccinated means more will go to the hospital, and capacities are already low, so those same doctors and nurses that are exhausted from dealing with idiots throughout the pandemic will have that much more pressure put on them, and fewer beds mean that some may not receive the treatment they need.

Keep digging....I'm certain you will come across examples where someone misspoke, or a politician was not completely honest about some aspect of the vaccine or the pandemic, and you can come back here and post your "gotcha" moment and puff out your chest, waiting for your medal to be pinned on, and think that example was pulling the card that made the entire house fall down. It won't change the fact that you are completely missing the forest for the trees and have been wrong about this from the start. And as exhausting as it is, just know that I will continue to be here to shove the BS straight back up the hole from which you pulled it.

Keep falling down the fear and conspiracy rabbit holes the MAGAs feed you. I genuinely felt bad about you for a while, but I no longer care.

 

[homersapien 11,357]

17 hours ago, pensacolatiger said:

I don’t like to hate on folks for being wrong, I’ve been wrong about plenty of things in my life.  But the wannabe dr’s that have been criticizing and ridiculing me about “don’t be selfish” & “trust muh science”, I feel pretty good about giving them a hard time.

Great!  Keep ignoring medical science.  Please.

(After all, what could possibly go wrong?)