Brandon Strikes Again

[I_M4_AU 7,792]

 

Totally believable, there should not be an inquiry, it would be a waste of time and money. 

 

[TitanTiger 20,472]

52 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

You and Joy Behar, I can’t tell the difference any more.

 

 

Yeah, other than the fact that we disagree on just about everything that exists other than Trump and his buttkissers, totes indistinguishable.  

[Auburnfan91 1,407]

5 hours ago, CoffeeTiger said:

Gonna have to edit this graphic for Biden. It's more than 12 now

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/white-house/biden-aides-find-second-batch-classified-documents-new-location-rcna65371

[I_M4_AU 7,792]

16 minutes ago, Auburnfan91 said:

Gonna have to edit this graphic for Biden. It's more than 12 now

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/white-house/biden-aides-find-second-batch-classified-documents-new-location-rcna65371

Say it isn’t so.

[I_M4_AU 7,792]

 

This is just too much fun.

[creed 1,635]

Appears to be another instance with OUR employees and their ability to manage OUR documents and/or work products while on the job. I see some are trying to quantify the issue. Here's my put. ONE DOCUMENT is a failure and should put the employee in position to be repremanded severely. Any work related documents are not their documents to do with as they please. They have been paid for and are owned by the citizens of this nation. Trump, Biden, or any federal employee should be held to an extreme high level of document control and security. If they cannot do this they should be releaved of their duties immediately and punished accordingly.

Edited January 12, 2023 by creed

[wdefromtx 3,159]

As bad as his memory is.....there is probably a lot of documents floating out there he forgot he took. LOL

[I_M4_AU 7,792]

33 minutes ago, wdefromtx said:

As bad as his memory is.....there is probably a lot of documents floating out there he forgot he took. LOL

Maybe the Democrats are so afraid of him running again they laying the grounds for the 25th Amendment.  

[I_M4_AU 7,792]

The man is just a joke:

 

He take classified material seriously just believe him.

[homersapien 11,362]

Regarding Biden's classified documents:

First, this is unfortunately common.  Plenty of government employees have inadvertently  taken classified documents "home" (or in Biden's case to a locked closet in personal office away from his home.)  And the higher the rank, the more common this probably is. And after all, it's not like Biden personally packed up boxes from his office. 

The really important issue is what results after these documents are found.

Secondly, there will be an investigation, by a Trump-appointed prosecutor, no less. That is a good and appropriate thing.  It will also serve to highlight the distinctions between the two cases:

Biden classified docs vs. Trump classified docs: What's the difference?

The discovery of classified documents among Biden's papers is a bad look for the president, but the circumstances of the find are much different from those of the Trump case.

 

By Dareh Gregorian

The discovery of classified documents among President Joe Biden's vice presidential papers in a Washington office has led to yowls by some Republicans who say there is an unfair double standard being applied to Donald Trump's stash of classified documents — but the circumstances of the finds are very different.

The uproar began Monday after the White House confirmed a CBS News report that a “small number of documents” with classified markings that appeared to be from the Obama administration had been found at a think tank tied to Biden.

The documents were discovered in a locked closet by Biden’s attorneys as they prepared to vacate office space at the Penn Biden Center for Diplomacy and Global Engagement, Richard Sauber, special counsel to the president, said in a statement.

The University of Pennsylvania leased a suite of offices for the center in February 2018, including an office for Biden’s personal use when he was in Washington.

Some Republicans in Congress — and Trump — questioned why the FBI wasn't getting search warrants to see if Biden had more documents.

“When is the FBI going to raid the many homes of Joe Biden, perhaps even the White House?” Trump posted on his Truth Social account.

While there is still much that is not known about the Biden documents, there are key differences between the two cases — as well as some similarities.

How the documents were discovered

The National Archives — which is supposed to receive all presidential records when a president or vice president leaves office — contacted Trump officials soon after he left office in 2021 to inform them that the agency believed some documents were missing and that the Archives needed them back.

After several months of back and forth, Trump sent 15 boxes of documents from his Mar-a-Lago estate to the archives in January of last year. Court papers show officials found classified documents in 14 of the 15 boxes, including 25 that were marked top secret. In all, there were 184 documents marked classified in the boxes.

More would be found later.

In the Biden case, Sauber said the National Archives was unaware of the missing documents and hadn't made any request to Biden for their return. He said the White House counsel's office notified Archives on the day the records were found, and officials there collected them the following day.

It’s unclear how many vice presidential records and classified documents were found in the office. Sauber said only that Biden’s personal attorneys were packing files when they found “what appear to be Obama-Biden Administration records, including a small number of documents with classified markings.” He did not describe the level of classification on the documents.

Two sources familiar with the matter said less than a dozen documents with classified markings were found at the office.

Justice Department investigation

In both cases, the Archives reported the discovery of classified documents to the Department of Justice.

When the Archives informed Trump's people early last year that it was going to hand the documents over to the intelligence community for a review of any potential damage to national security, Trump's team objected and asked for a temporary delay. The Archives granted Trump's first request but denied his second, court papers show.

The FBI later obtained information that Trump had more government documents and issued a subpoena for their return. In June, Trump's lawyers turned over a packet that included 38 classified documents, including 17 marked top secret. Trump's lawyers showed the agents the storage room where the documents had been held but refused to allow them to look into boxes that were still inside, according to court filings. They also gave investigators a declaration that a "diligent search was conducted" and that "all responsive documents had been turned over," government court filings show.

The FBI then learned Trump had not fully complied with the subpoena and still had more classified documents. They obtained a search warrant for his Mar-a-Lago property in August and found over 100 documents marked confidential, secret and top secret in the storage room and in Trump's office.

Trump later sought to slow the feds' investigation by asking for a special master to review the documents and demanded their return, claiming they had been declassified and were his personal property.

Another search for documents carried out later in the year at the behest of Trump’s attorneys turned up two more documents with classified markings at a Florida storage facility used by Trump near Mar-a-Lago, NBC reported last month. Those documents were turned over to the FBI, sources said.

In the Biden case, Sauber said that since the documents were found on Nov. 2, “the president’s personal attorneys have cooperated with the Archives and the Department of Justice in a process to ensure that any Obama-Biden Administration records are appropriately in the possession of the Archives.”

U.S. Attorney General Merrick Garland has asked John R. Lausch, the U.S. attorney for the Northern District of Illinois and a holdover Trump appointee, to review how the classified material ended up at the Penn Biden Center, a source familiar with the matter told NBC News on Monday.

Ian Sams, a spokesman for the White House Counsel's office, said, “This is an ongoing process under review by DOJ, so we are going to be limited in what we can say at this time. But we are committed to doing this the right way, and we will provide further details when and as appropriate.”

What did the presidents know and when did they know it?

It's unclear when exactly Trump became aware that the Archives had demanded the return of documents, but he certainly knew before the 15 boxes of documents were sent from Mar-a-Lago last January. He also interacted with FBI officials who went to retrieve the documents being handed over by his team in June.

His claims that he had declassified the documents before he left the White House and that he'd deemed them his personal property also indicate he was aware of at least some of the documents that were removed early on.

As for Biden, a source familiar with the matter said he only became aware that classified documents had been stored in his former office when his lawyers told him they had discovered them.

The president told reporters Tuesday he was "surprised" to find out there had been government records in the office, adding that he didn't know "what's in the documents.

"We're cooperating fully," he said.

By the numbers

In all, federal investigators recovered over 300 documents with classification markings from Trump. The exact number of classified documents found in Biden's office is unknown. Sauber described it as a "small number," while sources told NBC it was less than a dozen.

Security questions

The federal government has strict standards for the storage and handling of classified records. It appears those standards weren't met by Trump — who had documents in a storage facility in West Palm Beach, in a locked storage room in a well-trafficked area at his Florida resort, and in his office — or by Biden, who had them in a locked closet.

The FBI had expressed concern to Trump's lawyers about how the documents were being stored at a Mar-a-Lago in an email in June.

"Mar-a-Lago does not include a secure location authorized for the storage of classified information. As such, it appears that since the time classified documents [REDACTED] were removed from the secure facilities at the White House and moved to Mar-a-Lago on or around January 20, 2021, they have not been handled in an appropriate manner or stored in an appropriate location," the email said. "Accordingly, we ask that the room at Mar-a-Lago where the documents had been stored be secured and that all of the boxes that were moved from the White House to Mar-a-Lago (along with any other items in that room) be preserved in that room in their current condition until further notice.”

Trump has described that request as one to put an extra lock on the storage room door, which he said was done.

Legal exposure

Special counsel Jack Smith is now heading the FBI's criminal investigation into the handling of the Trump documents, in addition to an inquiry into his role in the Jan. 6 insurrection. A document that was attached to the August search warrant that's since been made public showed that investigators were looking for evidence of three crimes involving the mishandling of sensitive government records.

There's no indication at this point that the Biden probe has become a criminal investigation.

NBC News legal analyst Barbara McQuade, a former U.S. Attorney, said there are "several distinguishing factors" between the two cases.

McQuade posted on Twitter that the Justice Department prosecutes the mishandling of classified documents when there is an aggravating factor present. "Those factors are obstruction of justice, storage in a way that risks exposure, willful violation, and disloyalty to United States," she tweeted.

"In the Mar-a-Lago case, all but that last factor appear to be present. In the case of the Biden documents, there is no indication that any of the factors are met, but referral for investigation by the Chicago US Atty, a Trump appointee, seems prudent."

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/justice-department/biden-classified-docs-vs-trump-classified-docs-difference-rcna65087

[Son of A Tiger 560]

5 minutes ago, homersapien said:

Regarding Biden's classified documents:

First, this is unfortunately common.  Plenty of government employees have inadvertently  taken classified documents "home" (or in Biden's case to a locked closet in personal office away from his home.)  And the higher the rank, the more common this probably is. And after all, it's not like Biden personally packed up boxes from his office. 

 

Wow that's a far cry from what you said in Trumps's case.

[I_M4_AU 7,792]

 

 

[homersapien 11,362]

44 minutes ago, Son of A Tiger said:

Wow that's a far cry from what you said in Trumps's case.

Trump first denied taking them and then tried to resist returning them, even ignoring subpoenas.  He certainly didn't notify the archives commission, just the opposite. All of that is well documented.

Other than that, I don't know what you are talking about.

Like I said, let the facts come out.

[I_M4_AU 7,792]

 

 

Liberal logic.

[AUFAN78 3,894]

Jonathan Turley opines.

https://nypost.com/2023/01/11/dont-buy-bidens-surprise-classified-documents-were-moved-at-least-twice/

Edited January 12, 2023 by AUFAN78

[I_M4_AU 7,792]

 

Good question.

[creed 1,635]

10 hours ago, creed said:

Appears to be another instance with OUR employees and their ability to manage OUR documents and/or work products while on the job. I see some are trying to quantify the issue. Here's my put. ONE DOCUMENT is a failure and should put the employee in position to be repremanded severely. Any work related documents are not their documents to do with as they please. They have been paid for and are owned by the citizens of this nation. Trump, Biden, or any federal employee should be held to an extreme level of document control and security. If they cannot do this they should be releaved of their duties immediately and punished accordingly.

 

[homersapien 11,362]

2 hours ago, creed said:

 

I agree.  Biden's possession of these documents needs to be investigated thoroughly and he should suffer the legal consequences of that investigation.

But, keep in mind the existing law providing legal sanctions against unauthorized possession of such documents provides for intentionality. (At least that's my understanding.)

From what we know, Biden certainly didn't claim ownership, try to keep them or resist their return, unlike TFG.

Edited January 13, 2023 by homersapien

[creed 1,635]

3 minutes ago, homersapien said:

I agree.  Biden's possession of these documents needs to be investigated thoroughly.

But keep in mind the existing law providing legal sanctions against unauthorized possession of such documents provides for intentionality.

From what we know, he certainly didn't claim ownership, try to keep them or resist their return, unlike TFG.

Yes, every case is different. However, each case is serious in my opinion. In Trump's case is was a known uncaring attitude about the people's ducments. In Biden's case it's an ignorant sensibility about the people's documents. Both are really bad looks on the executive branch of government. If it was me I would be very harsh on both men and would conduct a full investigation into all aspects of the government including congress, FBI, CIA, miliary, etc. in regards to document control and security.

[homersapien 11,362]

1 hour ago, creed said:

Yes, every case is different. However, each case is serious in my opinion. In Trump's case is was a known uncaring attitude about the people's ducments. In Biden's case it's an ignorant sensibility about the people's documents. Both are really bad looks on the executive branch of government. If it was me I would be very harsh on both men and would conduct a full investigation into all aspects of the government including congress, FBI, CIA, miliary, etc. in regards to document control and security.

Your opinion is noted. I don't disagree.

Me, I'll wait on the facts in particular to come out.

 

 

 

Edited January 13, 2023 by homersapien

[jj3jordan 2,050]

1 hour ago, homersapien said:

I agree.  Biden's possession of these documents needs to be investigated thoroughly and he should suffer the consequences of that investigation.

But, keep in mind the existing law providing legal sanctions against unauthorized possession of such documents provides for intentionality. (At least that's my understanding.)

From what we know, he certainly didn't claim ownership, try to keep them or resist their return, unlike TFG.

Wrong homer. Intent is not a requirement. Simple possession without proper safeguards is a crime.

[homersapien 11,362]

17 minutes ago, jj3jordan said:

Wrong homer. Intent is not a requirement. Simple possession without proper safeguards is a crime.

No counselor,  you are.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1924

(a)

Whoever, being an officer, employee, contractor, or consultant of the United States, and, by virtue of his office, employment, position, or contract, becomes possessed of documents or materials containing classified information of the United States, knowingly removes such documents or materials without authority and with the intent to retain such documents or materials at an unauthorized location shall be fined under this title or imprisoned for not more than five years, or both.

(b)

For purposes of this section, the provision of documents and materials to the Congress shall not constitute an offense under subsection (a).

(c)

In this section, the term “classified information of the United States” means information originated, owned, or possessed by the United States Government concerning the national defense or foreign relations of the United States that has been determined pursuant to law or Executive order to require protection against unauthorized disclosure in the interests of national security.

(Added Pub. L. 103–359, title VIII, § 808(a), Oct. 14, 1994, 108 Stat. 3453; amended Pub. L. 107–273, div. B, title IV, § 4002(d)(1)(C)(i), Nov. 2, 2002, 116 Stat. 1809; Pub. L. 115–118, title II, § 202, Jan. 19, 2018, 132 Stat. 19.)

 

Considering his response to the government requests and subpoenas for said documents, it's gonna be tricky for Trump to prove he didn't know he had them and didn't intend to keep them, huh?

Edited January 13, 2023 by homersapien

[I_M4_AU 7,792]

Comedy is back:

 

We demand a raid on Car a Lago complete with searching Jills under ware drawer and Hunter’s bedroom.

[jj3jordan 2,050]

13 hours ago, homersapien said:

No counselor,  you are.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1924

(a)

Whoever, being an officer, employee, contractor, or consultant of the United States, and, by virtue of his office, employment, position, or contract, becomes possessed of documents or materials containing classified information of the United States, knowingly removes such documents or materials without authority and with the intent to retain such documents or materials at an unauthorized location shall be fined under this title or imprisoned for not more than five years, or both.

(b)

For purposes of this section, the provision of documents and materials to the Congress shall not constitute an offense under subsection (a).

(c)

In this section, the term “classified information of the United States” means information originated, owned, or possessed by the United States Government concerning the national defense or foreign relations of the United States that has been determined pursuant to law or Executive order to require protection against unauthorized disclosure in the interests of national security.

(Added Pub. L. 103–359, title VIII, § 808(a), Oct. 14, 1994, 108 Stat. 3453; amended Pub. L. 107–273, div. B, title IV, § 4002(d)(1)(C)(i), Nov. 2, 2002, 116 Stat. 1809; Pub. L. 115–118, title II, § 202, Jan. 19, 2018, 132 Stat. 19.)

 

Considering his response to the government requests and subpoenas for said documents, it's gonna be tricky for Trump to prove he didn't know he had them and didn't intend to keep them, huh?

Are we talking about Trump?

I thought this was about Biden.

He clearly intended to retain them storing them next to his corvette.

[I_M4_AU 7,792]

5 minutes ago, jj3jordan said:

Are we talking about Trump?

I thought this was about Biden.

He clearly intended to retain them storing them next to his corvette.

This, and he clearly did not intend to return them as he had them at least 6 years before discovery and only returned them because they were found.  Now this could mean he *forgot* he took them, or didn’t *remember* he took them.  Either way it is a total disrespect on our nation’s top secrets and classified papers.

Anybody know why the government was looking for them in the first place?  Ah, so many questions.

The Dems made the rules here, time to pay the piper.