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48 minutes ago, Beaker said:

And both do have one of the hardest jobs in America in their respective sports.

I just don't agree that Auburn is one of the hardest jobs in America. It's not even one of the hardest jobs in the SEC. Tennessee, Kentucky, Vanderbilt, USC, Missouri, Ole Miss, Mississippi State and Arkansas are all harder jobs. They are trying to accomplish the same goal with fewer resources.

Again:
Dye
Bowden
Tuberville
Chizik
Malzahn

Look at where they were before they got here and what they did after they left. They all won as big as they possible could here. (Okay, Malzahn was one play away.) 

Harsin came here strictly because he knew he couldn't win as big at Boise as he can here. Tuberville came here from Ole Miss.

This is a dream job for most coaches.

Edited by McLoofus
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4 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

I just don't agree that Auburn is one of the hardest jobs in America. It's not even one of the hardest jobs in the SEC. Tennessee, Kentucky, Vanderbilt, USC, Missouri, Ole Miss, Mississippi State and Arkansas are all harder jobs. They are trying to accomplish the same goal with fewer resources.

Again:
Dye
Bowden
Tuberville
Chizik
Malzahn

Look at where they were before they got here and what they did after they left. They all won as big as they possible could here. (Okay, Malzahn was one play away.) 

Harsin came here strictly because he knew he couldn't win as big at Boise as he can here. Tuberville came here from Ole Miss.

This is a dream job for most coaches.

Hmmm, although we typically agree, I disagree today. 

I think when you consider expectations of the AD/alumni/whomever -  none of those programs carry the expectations to be in the mix to win their division.  Tenn likely, but they should not have that expectation after their last 10-12 yrs.    Tenn also is the dominant program in the state and should own Tenn for recruiting.  I know they don't have the talent of Fl or Al or La, but you get my point.   USC is tough with Clem down the road, but their fanbase doesn't really expect much more than 8-4 each year.   Ole Miss just had their best season in program history....their very best since color came to tv sets. 

I am not saying you can't win at Auburn - every one of those coaches won a conf title, natty or an undefeated season.  But, it's not like if you come to Auburn, you're gonna win.   And Arky - I lived there and can say first hand, if you go 7-5 or 8-4 every year, you will be there a very long time. 

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Beaker said:

Hmmm, although we typically agree, I disagree today. 

I think when you consider expectations of the AD/alumni/whomever -  none of those programs carry the expectations to be in the mix to win their division.  Tenn likely, but they should not have that expectation after their last 10-12 yrs.    Tenn also is the dominant program in the state and should own Tenn for recruiting.  I know they don't have the talent of Fl or Al or La, but you get my point.   USC is tough with Clem down the road, but their fanbase doesn't really expect much more than 8-4 each year.   Ole Miss just had their best season in program history....their very best since color came to tv sets. 

I am not saying you can't win at Auburn - every one of those coaches won a conf title, natty or an undefeated season.  But, it's not like if you come to Auburn, you're gonna win.   And Arky - I lived there and can say first hand, if you go 7-5 or 8-4 every year, you will be there a very long time. 

Enjoying the civil disagreement!

With higher expectations comes higher salary... and higher salaries for assistants. And better facilities. And bigger recruiting budgets. Etc.

They can also lead to greater dysfunction, and we've suffered some of that. But look at Texas. We're not... that. 

At the end of the day, we have most of the same advantages that our rivals do. We just haven't leveraged them. Our answer to Nick Saban was Gene Chizik. Our solution for Gene Chizik was Gus Malzahn. I've said it every year since I don't know when, but we can't complain about our rivals shooting us in the foot when we're holding the gun. 

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25 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

Look at where they were before they got here and what they did after they left. They all won as big as they possible could here. (Okay, Malzahn was one play away.) 

Harsin came here strictly because he knew he couldn't win as big at Boise as he can here. Tuberville came here from Ole Miss.

This is a dream job for most coaches.

I agree with a lot of this.  We've won a Natty in every decades since the 80s.  All but 2 since the 50s.  There are a million harder jobs than ours.  We're set up to win if we do it correctly and aren't our own worst enemy...which seems like that's our biggest downfall.  Dye got caught cheating, Tot was loved blow and Cheerleaders too much (allegedly), BOT destroyed Tubs and he all but quit trying, Gene went crazy and lost it, Gus couldn't get out of his own shadow and evolve an offense.

I like Harsin.  I hope we can recruit well enough and/or develop well enough to be successful.

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1 minute ago, McLoofus said:

Enjoying the civil disagreement!

With higher expectations comes higher salary... and higher salaries for assistants. And better facilities. And bigger recruiting budgets. Etc.

They can also lead to greater dysfunction, and we've suffered some of that. But look at Texas. We're not... that. 

At the end of the day, we have most of the same advantages that our rivals do. We just haven't leveraged them. Our answer to Nick Saban was Gene Chizik. Our solution for Gene Chizik was Gus Malzahn. I've said it every year since I don't know when, but we can't complain about our rivals shooting us in the foot when we're holding the gun. 

Now that is funny!  

But as you point out - why are we not fighting harder?  

Looks like Auburn is now - we fought hard for the DT that still chose bama on the last day.   And we fought hard for the LB that Saban visited the Saturday before signing day, that we landed!     I am not certain Gus would have fought as hard or had the same success - matter of fact I know he would not have.   

Auburn really hired the most accomplished coach they have ever hired and I give all the credit to Greene for going against the grain. 

I suspect Harsin is pulling the trigger some.

 

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1 minute ago, W.E.D said:

I agree with a lot of this.  We've won a Natty in every decades since the 80s.  All but 2 since the 50s.  There are a million harder jobs than ours.  We're set up to win if we do it correctly and aren't our own worst enemy...which seems like that's our biggest downfall.  Dye got caught cheating, Tot was loved blow and Cheerleaders too much (allegedly), BOT destroyed Tubs and he all but quit trying, Gene went crazy and lost it, Gus couldn't get out of his own shadow and evolve an offense.

I like Harsin.  I hope we can recruit well enough and/or develop well enough to be successful.

A million jobs harder than ours? 🤣

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The thing I'd quibble with is the claim that Auburn and MSU or Mizzou or Vandy are "trying to accomplish the same goal." That's just wrong. In some abstract way, I suppose everyone is trying to win 'em all, but in reality, most coaches set goals the way Sam Pittman did at Arkansas. Getting ranked. Winning against a ranked team. Making a bowl game. Those are big accomplishments for most programs, but that's a baseline assumption at Auburn. So we fundamentally have different goals.

Now, like you said, we also have different resources, but I do think Auburn is one of the places where the goals outstrip (or at least stretch very thin) the resources. It's a tougher job than Kentucky or Mizzou or Mississippi State or Ole Miss or similar places. Those spots all have plus plus resources for programs that, when you get them on truth serum, want to win 7-8 games and a bowl game for a GOOD season. Winning seven games consistently at Auburn will get you fired, and Auburn does not have plus plus resources for a program that wants to win 9-11 games and a post season game every year.

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10 minutes ago, autigeremt said:

A million jobs harder than ours? 🤣

I'm sorry.  There literally aren't a million jobs in college football and you don't understand hyperboles 

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This is easy. It's the toughest job in college football right because expectations are high and we play Alabama and Georgia every year.  Those also happen to be our 2 biggest recruiting rivals.  Every coaching job in the SEC West is tough, but when one of them schedules Georgia every year, we'll talk.

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1 hour ago, Cardin Drake said:

This is easy. It's the toughest job in college football right because expectations are high and we play Alabama and Georgia every year.  Those also happen to be our 2 biggest recruiting rivals.  Every coaching job in the SEC West is tough, but when one of them schedules Georgia every year, we'll talk.

Agree 100%.  It is the hardest job in the SEC for the reasons you stated, plus we are caught between the two best recruiters in college football with Saban and now Kirby.  Both bama and Ga have turned over all the resources their football coaches need to do their jobs.  Auburn has not done that.  Sure we're spending more than we ever have but it still pales in comparison to our  biggest rivals.  Plus the constant meddling of our boosters is mind numbing.  Even trying to run our current AD out of town because a handful of boosters didn't like his football hire.  It's BS but it's Auburn being Auburn.

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Lol. Like, I get not agreeing, but I don't get just reposting talking points as though the counterpoints weren't said, read or considered at all.

Whatever. Not a big deal. When it's Harsin's time to leave, we'll have absolutely no problem finding somebody else to take the hardest job in all of sports ever. 

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1 hour ago, McLoofus said:

Lol. Like, I get not agreeing, but I don't get just reposting talking points as though the counterpoints weren't said, read or considered at all.

Whatever. Not a big deal. When it's Harsin's time to leave, we'll have absolutely no problem finding somebody else to take the hardest job in all of sports ever. 

Ahhh.   I see what you did.  You agree now, but hid your concurrence at the end of your post.   Uh huh, that was tricky.  I will read more closely, what you post.  hahaha

 

Not trying to convince you, but I can't name another team that has to play such a schedule where you are playing two teams like bama and GA annually, then you know you will likely have to beat GA the second time you play them to get to the playoffs.  And you playing in a division where 3 of the top 5-7 national recruiting classes land.  You just hope you are top 10 recruiting class so you can outcoach the more talented teams.  That is real and legit.      What other team in America has that level of competition and faces a double trial of such to get to the playoffs?  Wisc may play OSU twice if they both reach their conf championship this year, but they rarely play them regular season.   

Keep in mind Venables said, "I didn't like their (Auburn's conference) alignment," when asked why he did not take the Auburn job.  There is some speculation about his inference, but conference alignment makes a lot more sense and more in context than calling a "good ol boy network" some kind of "alignment".   Yeah OU will join the fray, but he has a few yrs to earn his second contract before that happens, beating up on the B12.  I would have done the same thing, if I were honest. 

 

You know which job I would want based on schedules, resources and close proximity to talent?   Right now....Clemson.  

 

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5 hours ago, McLoofus said:

I just don't agree that Auburn is one of the hardest jobs in America. It's not even one of the hardest jobs in the SEC. Tennessee, Kentucky, Vanderbilt, USC, Missouri, Ole Miss, Mississippi State and Arkansas are all harder jobs. They are trying to accomplish the same goal with fewer resources.

Again:
Dye
Bowden
Tuberville
Chizik
Malzahn

Look at where they were before they got here and what they did after they left. They all won as big as they possible could here. (Okay, Malzahn was one play away.) 

Harsin came here strictly because he knew he couldn't win as big at Boise as he can here. Tuberville came here from Ole Miss.

This is a dream job for most coaches.

If you don’t see Recruiting changing in last 5 years you ain’t looking IMO.

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22 minutes ago, Hank2020 said:

If you don’t see Recruiting changing in last 5 years you ain’t looking IMO.

Recruiting is definitely changing but I hope you aren't suggesting that's a barrier to entry for Auburn.

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45 minutes ago, Beaker said:

Ahhh.   I see what you did.  You agree now, but hid your concurrence at the end of your post.   Uh huh, that was tricky.  I will read more closely, what you post.  hahaha

 

Not trying to convince you, but I can't name another team that has to play such a schedule where you are playing two teams like bama and GA annually, then you know you will likely have to beat GA the second time you play them to get to the playoffs.  And you playing in a division where 3 of the top 5-7 national recruiting classes land.  You just hope you are top 10 recruiting class so you can outcoach the more talented teams.  That is real and legit.      What other team in America has that level of competition and faces a double trial of such to get to the playoffs?  Wisc may play OSU twice if they both reach their conf championship this year, but they rarely play them regular season.   

Keep in mind Venables said, "I didn't like their (Auburn's conference) alignment," when asked why he did not take the Auburn job.  There is some speculation about his inference, but conference alignment makes a lot more sense and more in context than calling a "good ol boy network" some kind of "alignment".   Yeah OU will join the fray, but he has a few yrs to earn his second contract before that happens, beating up on the B12.  I would have done the same thing, if I were honest. 

You know which job I would want based on schedules, resources and close proximity to talent?   Right now....Clemson.  

Again with the schedule? Sigh. I don't know how else to explain relativity and I don't think it matters anyway.

Oh, the Venables quote. Where did you see him clarify that he was referring to conference alignment? I don't believe that's what he meant unless he said otherwise.

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9 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

Recruiting is definitely changing but I hope you aren't suggesting that's a barrier to entry for Auburn.

Nope, I just don’t see things the same as it was for some of those back coaches. When we got Dye to come on board things were probably about the The same as now due to Bryant dominance. I believe the hill is higher today than ever before due to dominance of recruiting by Saban and a few others ( us not included yet). I also believe the difference between true elite players and the rest are wider today. But completely believe we have to keep working at it.

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2 minutes ago, Hank2020 said:

Nope, I just don’t see things the same as it was for some of those back coaches. When we got Dye to come on board things were probably about the The same as now due to Bryant dominance. I believe the hill is higher today than ever before due to dominance of recruiting by Saban and a few others ( us not included yet). I also believe the difference between true elite players and the rest are wider today. But completely believe we have to keep working at it.

Except we've also had our best recruiting classes since saban got here. And there is way more talent to go around. And some of our best seasons in school history have happened in this current climate. 

I just need to shut up and wait. My words won't be finding purchase. Only the wins will. And when  that happens, fans will be puffing out their chests and demanding respect. But that will be better.

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Back to the subject of the USC QB transfer……

 

Apparently Dart is visiting Ole Miss this weekend along with the TE that is transferring out of USC.  

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31 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

Except we've also had our best recruiting classes since saban got here. And there is way more talent to go around. And some of our best seasons in school history have happened in this current climate. 

I just need to shut up and wait. My words won't be finding purchase. Only the wins will. And when  that happens, fans will be puffing out their chests and demanding respect. But that will be better.

Your right about the recruiting classes since Saban got here. Hadn’t put that together.

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38 minutes ago, AEAugirl said:

Back to the subject of the USC QB transfer……

 

Apparently Dart is visiting Ole Miss this weekend along with the TE that is transferring out of USC.  

Yeah let’s get back to the subject. 
 

Ole Miss has been picked as the fit for Dart by the media. Then again Ole Miss will probably get mentioned for any QB transfers because of Kiffen. Dart is talented and I’d love it if he swung by Auburn after Miss. 

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  • WarTiger changed the title to Southern Cal QB Transferring
9 hours ago, McLoofus said:

I just don't agree that Auburn is one of the hardest jobs in America. It's not even one of the hardest jobs in the SEC. Tennessee, Kentucky, Vanderbilt, USC, Missouri, Ole Miss, Mississippi State and Arkansas are all harder jobs. They are trying to accomplish the same goal with fewer resources.

Again:
Dye
Bowden
Tuberville
Chizik
Malzahn

Look at where they were before they got here and what they did after they left. They all won as big as they possible could here. (Okay, Malzahn was one play away.) 

Harsin came here strictly because he knew he couldn't win as big at Boise as he can here. Tuberville came here from Ole Miss.

This is a dream job for most coaches.

Disagree here. Auburn and Vanderbilt do not share the same goals or expectations. Nobody you mentioned does except maybe Tennessee, but that program has been so degraded that I don't think they are on our level any longer.

There are program tiers based on history and current resources. With each tier there are different endgame goals. Lane Kiffin could stay at OM for the next 30 years and never win the SEC, yet retain his job. At a place like Auburn, you've got to do it at least every 5-10 years.

AU, Bama, LSU, Florida, UGA are in the "compete for and win national titles" tier. 

Tennessee, aTm, Ole Miss, and South Carolina are in the "win the SEC" tier. (aTm is debatable but until they actually win something they aren't a Tier 1 team). 

Mississippi State, Missouri, Vanderbilt, and Arkansas are in the "win the division" tier. 

Not to say these tiers are permanently locked-in. You can graduate to different levels. Schools like Baylor and Oregon have shot up. While teams like Nebraska and Tennessee have descended. 

But right now, nobody in America who is a legitimate national title contender has it harder than Auburn.

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On 1/12/2022 at 11:53 AM, W.E.D said:

I'm sorry.  There literally aren't a million jobs in college football and you don't understand hyperboles 

Oh yes...yes I do understand.🤪 But Auburn isn't an easy job. It doesn't take a lot of analysis to see that. 

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On 1/12/2022 at 12:45 PM, mcgufcm said:

The thing I'd quibble with is the claim that Auburn and MSU or Mizzou or Vandy are "trying to accomplish the same goal." That's just wrong. In some abstract way, I suppose everyone is trying to win 'em all, but in reality, most coaches set goals the way Sam Pittman did at Arkansas. Getting ranked. Winning against a ranked team. Making a bowl game. Those are big accomplishments for most programs, but that's a baseline assumption at Auburn. So we fundamentally have different goals.

Now, like you said, we also have different resources, but I do think Auburn is one of the places where the goals outstrip (or at least stretch very thin) the resources. It's a tougher job than Kentucky or Mizzou or Mississippi State or Ole Miss or similar places. Those spots all have plus plus resources for programs that, when you get them on truth serum, want to win 7-8 games and a bowl game for a GOOD season. Winning seven games consistently at Auburn will get you fired, and Auburn does not have plus plus resources for a program that wants to win 9-11 games and a post season game every year.

MSU and Missou and Vandy are trying to win the games they play. They don't do it as often as we do. Because they aren't able to win games. Those jobs are harder. 

Ole Miss is paying Kiffin $7.5 million. That's not because they're okay with 7-8 win seasons. Joe Moorehead got fired after averaging 7 wins for 2 seasons. Vandy's had as many coaches as we have and only one or two of them left for better jobs.

And, no, Missouri and Kentucky don't have plus plus resources. Ask Harsin if he'd take those jobs for the same pay. And then ask him why he said no. 

Expectations don't make a job harder. Not being able to do your job makes your job harder. 

 

 

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On 1/12/2022 at 5:21 PM, McLoofus said:

Again with the schedule? Sigh. I don't know how else to explain relativity and I don't think it matters anyway.

Oh, the Venables quote. Where did you see him clarify that he was referring to conference alignment? I don't believe that's what he meant unless he said otherwise.

I didn't, just saying "it makes more sense."  

 

And a coach needs to win quickly for two reasons:

1. recruits/transfer and

2. get that second contract because it is more lucrative and plenty more perks and he is more entrenched

 

I get it.

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2 minutes ago, Beaker said:

I didn't, just saying "it makes more sense."  

It doesn't make much sense to me that a man of Venables's stature would admit publicly that he avoided the Auburn job because it's too hard.

What others have suggested he meant, and what makes much more sense to me, is that the "alignment"- or, implicitly, lack thereof- he was referring to was that of our power structure and football program. saban was able to hit the ground running at bama because they were aligned. He was given full autonomy and their network was ready to deliver him whatever talent he wanted. Everyone involved was prepared to do what he asked and what was need to win. While I don't think we've been as dysfunctional as some other very prominent programs, we certainly haven't been unified like that.

And this is where I have to point out that said lack of alignment does make the job harder, but not the hardest job in the country or even our division. 

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