Depth

[JwgreDeux 1,279]

12 hours ago, Rednilla said:

This. I don't know if I just wasn't noticing it earlier in the season, or what exactly the deal is, but Wendell has been losing possession far too frequently for a point guard. I wouldn't be surprised if this isn't the reason Zep is starting at the point, even though Green seems to be the superior shooter and a better defender than advertised when he first transferred in (which probably has a lot to do with Pearl...God bless that man).

Of course, Zep being a near lights out defender in his own right doesn't diminish his worthiness to start, either, so there is that.

On the TOs, you take the good with the bad. His offensive aggression, unpredictability and freedom is what makes him effective and loose with the ball at times. I'm always for fewer TOs, but I don't think it is a problem at this point. I would like him to defer a bit more to Smith on some shot selection issues. 

[Dunndone414 469]

13 minutes ago, JwgreDeux said:

On the TOs, you take the good with the bad. His offensive aggression, unpredictability and freedom is what makes him effective and loose with the ball at times. I'm always for fewer TOs, but I don't think it is a problem at this point. I would like him to defer a bit more to Smith on some shot selection issues. 

This is spot on. Of course you want fewer TOs. But one reason Zep’s assist to TO ratio is so good is that he doesn’t try anything remotely creative/risky. 

[Rednilla 5,383]

58 minutes ago, JwgreDeux said:

On the TOs, you take the good with the bad. His offensive aggression, unpredictability and freedom is what makes him effective and loose with the ball at times. I'm always for fewer TOs, but I don't think it is a problem at this point. I would like him to defer a bit more to Smith on some shot selection issues. 

I understand that you take the good with the bad, but that doesn't mean you should simply be satisfied with the bad and not strive for improvement.

Either way, however, my point was that the turnovers might well be why Jasper is starting over Green. No more, no less.

[JwgreDeux 1,279]

1 hour ago, Rednilla said:

I understand that you take the good with the bad, but that doesn't mean you should simply be satisfied with the bad and not strive for improvement.

Either way, however, my point was that the turnovers might well be why Jasper is starting over Green. No more, no less.

I think the starting line up is just a method of setting rotations. With Kessler, Smith, Flannigan, and KD on the floor, Zep doesn't need to score much. By bringing Wen off the bench, you have instant offense when any of the other four starters are sitting with Zep. It is one of the factors that makes the depth so good, that we have a player that could start coming off the bench. 

[Rednilla 5,383]

1 hour ago, JwgreDeux said:

I think the starting line up is just a method of setting rotations. With Kessler, Smith, Flannigan, and KD on the floor, Zep doesn't need to score much. By bringing Wen off the bench, you have instant offense when any of the other four starters are sitting with Zep. It is one of the factors that makes the depth so good, that we have a player that could start coming off the bench. 

That makes for a logical explanation, for sure.

[cole256 17,039]

6 hours ago, steeleagle said:

You have to look at the whole picture on Greene.

In his last 2 games on the road, he has had only 1 TO total. Its even more interesting, he has in his 2 home games, 5 TOs a game. I am sure his first SEC game every against LSU caused him to play outside of his comfort zone.

And on D, i noticed guards try to post up to him, and he's getting burned their bc of his size.

Zep is great at keeping guards pushed out on the perimeter, but i also noticed he's pushing off a lot too, so he has to be careful on his aggressiveness, on offense and D.

But Wendell will be fine. He is the only guard that can use quickness and ball control to split those defending guards, get to the middle, dish, alley oop or get a layup. Zep can't do that... 

Why do you say that? The use quickness. Are you saying the other guards don't dribble well?

[cole256 17,039]

I'm the one that brought up the turnovers and some of you have to stop being so sensitive that you don't feel like anything can be said about a player. 

They then the ball over too much and they don't share the ball enough. It's not saying they suck, it's saying as good as we are playing we can play much better and score a bunch more points. Period.

With the talent we have of guys who can score if we use that threat to make easier shots for everybody we can hit another level.

Also it doesn't matter really if right now the turnovers aren't a problem, fact of the matter is we are so talented we can make mistakes and still win but you make those mistakes against better teams and it can get you killed. Now is when you ramp up and get stuff tight because turnovers are the NUMBER 1 thing that will get you sent home tournament time. 

That's what I was talking about. I'm not giddy about our play now. I'm happy because I'll always prefer winning to losing but everything I say as far as critiquing the team is because I'm thinking championship. We could play southern union and I'm going to talk play and habits as if we were playing Duke in the championships

[Viper 3,120]

2 hours ago, JwgreDeux said:

I think the starting line up is just a method of setting rotations. With Kessler, Smith, Flannigan, and KD on the floor, Zep doesn't need to score much. By bringing Wen off the bench, you have instant offense when any of the other four starters are sitting with Zep.

Exactly the way I see it. We have plenty of starting scorers. Pearl is staggering one of them for scoring and rest.

[JwgreDeux 1,279]

Currently we are averaging 11.6 TOs a game (only about 9 in SEC play). That put us 60th in the country in fewest TOs a game. When you adjust for pace, we move up to top 30 in turnovers per possession. Obviously, you always want fewer TOs, but the team already appears to be improving in this area during SEC play. Combined with our defensive turnover numbers and I think we are on solid footing in this area. 

The area I think we need the most work in is making that one extra pass. Our guards continue to improve, but are missing opportunities for an assist here or there by forcing shots. We currently are getting 15.5 assist per game, good for 38th in the country, if we could get two more per game we would be top 10. 

We have to get Smith more touches. I’m not suggesting he shoots the ball every time down the court, but the best player shouldn’t take the 4th most shots as happened last night. 

[BJCrawford 1,568]

15 minutes ago, JwgreDeux said:

Currently we are averaging 11.6 TOs a game (only about 9 in SEC play). That put us 60th in the country in fewest TOs a game. When you adjust for pace, we move up to top 30 in turnovers per possession. Obviously, you always want fewer TOs, but the team already appears to be improving in this area during SEC play. Combined with our defensive turnover numbers and I think we are on solid footing in this area. 

The area I think we need the most work in is making that one extra pass. Our guards continue to improve, but are missing opportunities for an assist here or there by forcing shots. We currently are getting 15.5 assist per game, good for 38th in the country, if we could get two more per game we would be top 10. 

We have to get Smith more touches. I’m not suggesting he shoots the ball every time down the court, but the best player shouldn’t take the 4th most shots as happened last night. 

What is your take on teams setting out to rough up smith and make him foul? Do we keep going to him? Or use our depth to indicate to opponents if you spend your resources on Smith too much, then we will just go to someone else?

[jj3jordan 2,039]

26 minutes ago, JwgreDeux said:

Currently we are averaging 11.6 TOs a game (only about 9 in SEC play). That put us 60th in the country in fewest TOs a game. When you adjust for pace, we move up to top 30 in turnovers per possession. Obviously, you always want fewer TOs, but the team already appears to be improving in this area during SEC play. Combined with our defensive turnover numbers and I think we are on solid footing in this area. 

The area I think we need the most work in is making that one extra pass. Our guards continue to improve, but are missing opportunities for an assist here or there by forcing shots. We currently are getting 15.5 assist per game, good for 38th in the country, if we could get two more per game we would be top 10. 

We have to get Smith more touches. I’m not suggesting he shoots the ball every time down the court, but the best player shouldn’t take the 4th most shots as happened last night. 

I don't mind last night Jabari backing off the shooting. He was cold on 3s and didn't want to keep pressing. He did make one big one and he hit almost all of his two point jumpers. I think this allowed others to take more shots. Zep and Flan made a couple. We still made 10 which should have been 15 probably as Wendell also had a slow 3 pt game.  Walker missed a couple of 3s also. What is he 1 for the year?

Edited January 20, 2022 by jj3jordan

[cole256 17,039]

Not going to argue silly stuff. The end of the Alabama game shows how the turnovers and bad shots can ruin you. We dominated that game and snap your finger we almost gave it up. That happens in the tournament it's bye bye and everybody will be saying what happened and pretending I didn't explain the dangers of what we were flirting with. 

Our guards are shaky if they have to do ANYTHING with the ball besides score. That can be exploited.

[tgrogan21 6,198]

10 minutes ago, cole256 said:

Not going to argue silly stuff. The end of the Alabama game shows how the turnovers and bad shots can ruin you. We dominated that game and snap your finger we almost gave it up. That happens in the tournament it's bye bye and everybody will be saying what happened and pretending I didn't explain the dangers of what we were flirting with. 

Our guards are shaky if they have to do ANYTHING with the ball besides score. That can be exploited.

Curious as to what your thoughts are about Flan? I know that you are as high on him as anyone else on this board but there are times where it looks like he has struggled with chemistry or something on offense. I've remembered several times where he'll get the ball with 15-20 seconds on the shot clock and doesn't even look towards Jabari or anyone else, tries to dribble and drive, and then runs over someone or turns it over. His defense is still good but it's frustrating when he seems to just ignore the 5 star guy on the team to try to do it all himself.

[JwgreDeux 1,279]

2 hours ago, BJCrawford said:

What is your take on teams setting out to rough up smith and make him foul? Do we keep going to him? Or use our depth to indicate to opponents if you spend your resources on Smith too much, then we will just go to someone else?

What option do you have as a defender other than to try and rough him up? You can't give him space or not get into him or he will just shoot right over you. I would like to see a handful more of dedicated get him the ball possessions. He's too good not to. He also creates for others besides himself from the high post. 

2 hours ago, jj3jordan said:

I don't mind last night Jabari backing off the shooting. He was cold on 3s and didn't want to keep pressing. He did make one big one and he hit almost all of his two point jumpers. I think this allowed others to take more shots. Zep and Flan made a couple. We still made 10 which should have been 15 probably as Wendell also had a slow 3 pt game.  Walker missed a couple of 3s also. What is he 1 for the year?

I mind, because it just continues the tone/expectations of the team of who gets what shots. If he only gets 10 attempts vs UK we lose, if he has the fourth most attempts we lose. Why wait for UK to make sure he gets more shots. No matter what happens with the UK game alone, he needs more shots going forward. 

36 minutes ago, cole256 said:

Not going to argue silly stuff. The end of the Alabama game shows how the turnovers and bad shots can ruin you. We dominated that game and snap your finger we almost gave it up. That happens in the tournament it's bye bye and everybody will be saying what happened and pretending I didn't explain the dangers of what we were flirting with. 

Our guards are shaky if they have to do ANYTHING with the ball besides score. That can be exploited.

There is that "silly" word again. Is anyone disagreeing that TOs are bad and bad shots are bad? No. I'm simply saying that generally our current level of turnovers is not concerning. But yes a few trips in a row with TOs can get you beat in the tourney, of course. I agree with your observations that our guards are not doing a good job creating for others, and that can be exploited by defenses which would lead to higher rates of turnovers than we have now. 

[tgrogan21 6,198]

3 minutes ago, JwgreDeux said:

I mind, because it just continues the tone/expectations of the team of who gets what shots. If he only gets 10 attempts vs UK we lose, if he has the fourth most attempts we lose. Why wait for UK to make sure he gets more shots. No matter what happens with the UK game alone, he needs more shots going forward. 

Jabari needs to touch the ball at least once on every possession unless it's a fast break and he's not down the court. Not getting him involved in the offense is criminal and I can't believe we're halfway through the season and there are still times where he doesn't touch it.

Also can't believe we shot 36 3s last night. I think our program record is 44 in a game and we don't have the same shooters as that team. Should have attacked Georgia all night but we settled for those 3s and they weren't falling.

[Dual-Threat Rigby 8,638]

1 hour ago, JwgreDeux said:

I mind, because it just continues the tone/expectations of the team of who gets what shots. If he only gets 10 attempts vs UK we lose, if he has the fourth most attempts we lose. Why wait for UK to make sure he gets more shots. No matter what happens with the UK game alone, he needs more shots going forward. 

That's where I think this team having the same freelance methodology as the JH/Bryce ones don't make quite the same sense. They do play well when they're just not thinking, but they also do alot more ballstopping than that team. Maybe it's just because the former had a ton more chemistry built together and this is STILL a very rag tag bunch of players that're trying to figure things out, but I still feel like this squad hasn't had a game where they've stuck to their guns from start to finish. They kinda do whatever feels good from moment to moment (and that is the hallmark of a young team). 

I think Green has done an incredible job and I'm not taking anything from him, but I still wish they had a guy with a couple seasons here leading the charge, being a rock during the dry stretches of team play. I'm not sold on Flanigan being that even when he gets more chemistry with the new guys 

[LPTiger 5,150]

Did anyone else notice Tuesday night that Alabama had 2 guys on the court, at the same time, with knee braces on and one of them, in particular, could not place any weight on the heel of the foot of the leg with the knee brace?   His mobility looked really hampered.  The other guy had the same issue (placing weight on his heel) but not as pronounced.  I know injuries are part of the game, but I thought Oats had recruited well enough that he could keep able bodied players on the court...  

[cole256 17,039]

On 1/20/2022 at 1:46 PM, JwgreDeux said:

What option do you have as a defender other than to try and rough him up? You can't give him space or not get into him or he will just shoot right over you. I would like to see a handful more of dedicated get him the ball possessions. He's too good not to. He also creates for others besides himself from the high post. 

I mind, because it just continues the tone/expectations of the team of who gets what shots. If he only gets 10 attempts vs UK we lose, if he has the fourth most attempts we lose. Why wait for UK to make sure he gets more shots. No matter what happens with the UK game alone, he needs more shots going forward. 

There is that "silly" word again. Is anyone disagreeing that TOs are bad and bad shots are bad? No. I'm simply saying that generally our current level of turnovers is not concerning. But yes a few trips in a row with TOs can get you beat in the tourney, of course. I agree with your observations that our guards are not doing a good job creating for others, and that can be exploited by defenses which would lead to higher rates of turnovers than we have now. 

Didn't see this post. So the silly thing made you feel a type of way even after you misquoted it and took it wrong, you still took it to heart. 

I'm not going to argue what's a concern to you. If you aren't concerned about turnovers that's your prerogative. I just know better and know if they are loose with the ball now you can add at minimum 5 more turnovers but probably more in the tournament and that's all I care about is the tournament

[cole256 17,039]

On 1/20/2022 at 1:45 PM, tgrogan21 said:

Curious as to what your thoughts are about Flan? I know that you are as high on him as anyone else on this board but there are times where it looks like he has struggled with chemistry or something on offense. I've remembered several times where he'll get the ball with 15-20 seconds on the shot clock and doesn't even look towards Jabari or anyone else, tries to dribble and drive, and then runs over someone or turns it over. His defense is still good but it's frustrating when he seems to just ignore the 5 star guy on the team to try to do it all himself.

Sorry, somehow I missed this, my bad. My thoughts on flan is I think he has to play himself back into a rhythm and he didn't even have time to work with them really in the summer. And this is an entire different team so he doesn't really have any muscle memory to fall back on.

I also think the focus is for him to trust his instincts and his body again and that's probably where he's at. It's like he's practicing and experimenting in the games itself, so I imagine he's testing his own limits and stuff and that's what his focus is right now. I think everybody is probably telling him to be selfish and stuff right now for his confidence.

I think when the games start mattering more he'll play a more selfless type of game and fit in better.

[tgrogan21 6,198]

Back court depth is gonna b e absolutely insane next season.

[roe4christ 940]

So, what will our roster look like next season with likely Smith and Kessler leaving?

Looks like we will strong in the backcourt but light in the frontcourt.  Got Westry coming in.  What do you think we do in the portal if anything?

[Dual-Threat Rigby 8,638]

4 minutes ago, tgrogan21 said:

Back court depth is gonna b e absolutely insane next season.

Good decision by him, I think he can play himself into a professional opportunity somewhere with another year of offensive development. I think he'll be able to score more with Green, Westry and Donaldson all in the fold, three ideally capable floor setters. Will probably HAVE to honestly 

[tgrogan21 6,198]

6 minutes ago, roe4christ said:

So, what will our roster look like next season with likely Smith and Kessler leaving?

Looks like we will strong in the backcourt but light in the frontcourt.  Got Westry coming in.  What do you think we do in the portal if anything?

If Kessler and Smith go, I believe we'll have our pick at anyone we want in the portal. I figure Moore might transfer, I think Stretch is trying to redshirt, and we'll still have Cardwell and Jaylin. Our depth will continue to be insane and who knows Kessler might get a BIG NIL deal and stay.

Zep, Wendell, Donaldson, KD, Chance at the guard spots. We'll go from having one of the best front courts to having one of the best back courts.

 

[Dual-Threat Rigby 8,638]

3 minutes ago, roe4christ said:

So, what will our roster look like next season with likely Smith and Kessler leaving?

Looks like we will strong in the backcourt but light in the frontcourt.  Got Westry coming in.  What do you think we do in the portal if anything?

Off the top of my head, the scholarship guys are 

Zep/Wendell

KD/Devan/Donaldson

Flanigan (in the absence of substantial stock rising)/Cambridge/Westry

transfer 4/Jaylin

transfer 5/Cardwell

I don't see Walker or Jabari being in college next season, and I think Moore either leaves of his own volition or Pearl has the same talk he had with Jamal. by my count there's currently 12 guys on scholarship, and this would be 12? No way to know if they want to use this offseason to deduct one of those 2 scholarships too 

[tgrogan21 6,198]

4 minutes ago, Dual-Threat Rigby said:

Off the top of my head, the scholarship guys are 

Zep/Wendell

KD/Devan/Donaldson

Flanigan (in the absence of substantial stock rising)/Cambridge/Westry

transfer 4/Jaylin

transfer 5/Cardwell

I don't see Walker or Jabari being in college next season, and I think Moore either leaves of his own volition or Pearl has the same talk he had with Jamal. by my count there's currently 12 guys on scholarship, and this would be 12? No way to know if they want to use this offseason to deduct one of those 2 scholarships too 

Jabari is obviously gone, but I don't think it's a forgone conclusion that Walker is. I think he could raise his draft stock even further next season, he could get an amazing NIL deal, and be a top 10 pick next season. I know Bruce always pushes people to leave but I think that was before NIL was a thing and now these kids could make some serious money while still getting more experience for a higher draft position.