Oline recruiting philosophy...

[Cardin Drake 1,821]

I've watched two programs struggle for years with offensive line recruiting problems, Texas and Auburn. I see other schools like Oklahoma State take a bunch of unheralded guys and wind up with consistently good O lines.  I understand that unlike some positions, there just isn't enough 4 and 5 star talent to go around. High schools almost always put their best athletes on the defensive line. And you are going to lose some recruiting battles. But how do you screw up the numbers so badly?  No position is harder to project success in college. You have to take four or five every single year.  You know that some of the high school guys are not going to pan out. That's the only way you can get enough experienced juniors and seniors on a consistent basis. It's a position where numbers can make a difference.

A lot of pro offensive line prospects come from the 2 and 3 star ranks.  This article does a great job breaking it down: https://247sports.com/Article/NFL-Combine-offensive-line-evaluations-130065470/

Money quote:

Historically, linemen and offensive linemen in particular have proven to be the some of the most difficult prospects to project long term and a boom or bust proposition with a higher variance of career trajectories among top prospects..... No other position has seen more prospects emerge from seemingly nowhere to develop into top picks.

The article goes on to explain, In a nutshell, you look for athleticism and you build weight and strength in college.  This usually takes a couple of years.  It is rare to get immediate help from an offensive lineman. Some first round picks weigh 240 coming out of high school and are not heavily recruited.

I think the main reason coaches take these small classes is simple shortsightedness.  If your choice is to take a 4 star defensive back that might help you next year or a 3 star O lineman that will help you 3 years down the line, it's a natural tendency to take the immediate help.  On top of that, I know coaches are sensitive to class rankings, and taking a bunch of 3 star linemen doesn't help.  Right now, we aren't going to win our fair share of recruiting head to head battles with Georgia and Alabama. Our coaches need to accept that (not give up on it, of course, but have a contingency plan).  We can still win plenty of head to head battles with schools like Memphis, Central Florida, most SEC schools and plenty of others. Hell, just offer everyone Oklahoma State does. There are plenty of quality offensive linemen at all of those schools. I don't have many criticisms of Harsin, but I hate to see him in the process of repeating Gus's worst mistake.  It's a disaster that we didn't take 5 offensive linemen this year after a small class last year.  One I just don't understand. It's so hard to fix that pipeline once it's broken.   We need to scout well and take the best 4 or 5 high school guys we can get, even if it hurts our class rankings.  Every year. I know the portal could change things, but as we are seeing, that's not so easy either. 

 

Edited January 26, 2022 by Cardin Drake

[AuburnNTexas 7,134]

I have been saying for years we need the kids that have the athletic ability to play O-Line and the height and wingspan to play o-line but who are just not heavy enough and strong enough to play o-line. Every other school signs a minimum of 4 every year and develops them.  You hit the nail on the head. I am hoping this year was an aberration  and it was only because of the late start that we did not sign at least 4 HS O-linemen I am hoping for at least 2 more in late class. You are right our star gazing fans will get real upset when the 3* O-linemen hurt our class ranking but if we can get 2 out of 4 to be legit O-line with redshirt year we could easily have 10 SEC ready O-Line every year. 

Then put a few of those in NFL and you can start winning some of the battles for the 4* and 5* types.

[JuscAUse! 1,400]

17 minutes ago, AuburnNTexas said:

I have been saying for years we need the kids that have the athletic ability to play O-Line and the height and wingspan to play o-line but who are just not heavy enough and strong enough to play o-line. Every other school signs a minimum of 4 every year and develops them.  You hit the nail on the head. I am hoping this year was an aberration  and it was only because of the late start that we did not sign at least 4 HS O-linemen I am hoping for at least 2 more in late class. You are right our star gazing fans will get real upset when the 3* O-linemen hurt our class ranking but if we can get 2 out of 4 to be legit O-line with redshirt year we could easily have 10 SEC ready O-Line every year. 

Then put a few of those in NFL and you can start winning some of the battles for the 4* and 5* types.

Totally agree. 100%. For a large part of 6 decades I have watched teams like Wisconsin take their 2&3 star OL and obliterate our 4 star DL in bowl games. "Projects" is what they call them now. In the past you redshirt them and about 1/2 develope into solid OL. Because of the difficulty in projecting the future on the OL, you never really know who the "projects" are. Just do what Tex says and sign 4-5 a year every year. 

 

[Gowebb11 9,313]

Talent aside, more than any other position you need to bring in 4-5 HS OL recruits a year. That has to become a foundational part of our strategy. You cannot possibly sustain excellence at that position signing 2-3 per year. 

[W.E.D 11,070]

2 hours ago, AuburnNTexas said:

I have been saying for years we need the kids that have the athletic ability to play O-Line and the height and wingspan to play o-line but who are just not heavy enough and strong enough to play o-line. .

Agree with a lot of this. If we can't sign the elite guys, we need to be going this route.

I feel like so many of these mid ranked (low 4 high 3) 300# HS OL kinda flame out or looked better vs HS kids then can't just use size in college.

Iowa signs a ton of guys who are like 270, then bulks them up and develop them. Numbers help too when you sign 4 a year and have 20 on roster, you can usually find 5 good ones.

[shabby 1,956]

Is it that the staff isn't taking 3 star recruits or is it that even the 3 stars aren't interested? 

[CameronCrazy 1,058]

I’m a manufacturing Engineer (no sales experience) and even I could sell highly rated OL prospects to sign w/ Auburn. “Come to Auburn and you can start as a Freshman!” Yet, here we are on January 16th with ONE 3* OL commit.  

Everybody in the world knows it’s our worst position group. Everybody in the world knows it’s been criminally under-recruited the past 5+ years.

And yet we have ONE 3* OL commit with no serious prospects on the horizon. Absolutely BLOWS my mind. New staff, new OL coach, same problem. 

It should literally be Harsin’s #1 priority. You can’t run ANY offense with a terrible OL.

[WDE_OxPx_2010 5,290]

43 minutes ago, CameronCrazy said:

I’m a manufacturing Engineer (no sales experience) and even I could sell highly rated OL prospects to sign w/ Auburn. “Come to Auburn and you can start as a Freshman!” Yet, here we are on January 16th with ONE 3* OL commit.  

Everybody in the world knows it’s our worst position group. Everybody in the world knows it’s been criminally under-recruited the past 5+ years.

And yet we have ONE 3* OL commit with no serious prospects on the horizon. Absolutely BLOWS my mind. New staff, new OL coach, same problem. 

It should literally be Harsin’s #1 priority. You can’t run ANY offense with a terrible OL.

I only wish Harsin and Co knew this and would fix it.

[Gowebb11 9,313]

From the Reddit: Council, A Jackson, and Coffey all coming back next season. 

[WarEagleHunter1221 1,690]

1 hour ago, Gowebb11 said:

From the Reddit: Council, A Jackson, and Coffey all coming back next season. 

A few weeks ago I would not have been excited by this but the way we are whiffing on portal guys we gone need these guys. 

[tigers23 648]

I dont think we have a strategy for recruiting the oline

[au302 2,669]

In addition to recruiting guys with better frames and athleticism, we really need to get back to prioritizing guys with mean streaks. Guys like Brahms, Hamm, and some of the backups have been described here as great guys and big teddy bears.

Don't get me wrong, that is obviously great traits for off the field, but not what you want for an SEC linemen. Look at Dismukes. Mean guy that would steal your lunch and then stuff you in your locker. Same for other guys from that era. Probably good dudes away from the spotlight, but they wanted to bury you. Apparently Eston Harris has that dog in him. Keiondre Jones was the only one from the last group that did, and he was also our best linemen. 

[NWALA Tiger 3,535]

8 hours ago, tigers23 said:

I dont think we have a strategy for recruiting the oline

Is the problem the OL Coach? I agree its baffling

[McLoofus 35,182]

1 hour ago, NWALA Tiger said:

Is the problem the OL Coach? I agree its baffling

I personally believe that he is part of the problem and that he will not continue to be a part of the problem much longer.

[aucanucktiger 1,791]

Here's a philosophy to start with: pick a base offense (e.g. rollout QB, pocket QB, etc), recruit linemen that fit or can be coached into that offense, go get 3 stars, create good O line reputation, rinse & repeat (next time w/ 4 stars). The last o line coach we had that earned his keep was Grimes phase I (not to be confused w/ post chemo Grimes phase II).

[1716AU 728]

50 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

I personally believe that he is part of the problem and that he will not continue to be a part of the problem much longer.

Seriously? 

Is that a hope or something more?

[McLoofus 35,182]

2 minutes ago, 1716AU said:

Seriously? 

Is that a hope or something more?

Just hope and reading the tea leaves.

I think Bedell is our guy. He's been successful coaching OLs under Harsin. He shows up time and again in the commitment photos. Like, when M'baa committed, it was Harsin and Bedell in the room. I think the issue with Bedell is that he's not a major recruiting asset for OLs right now. Maybe it's because he's not connected down here, maybe he's busy in other ways, maybe he's just not a "go out and find them" guy. Maybe he's more of a closer, or maybe he doesn't factor into recruiting at all in the way I imagine.

Either way, *it's my guess* that Harsin is trying to find an ace recruiter to add to the staff. Maybe waiting for an NFL guy, a la Eason or Davis, to finish with the playoffs or waiting until after signing day to announce Friend's departure and the hiring of a younger, more local guy, a la Caddy or Etheridge. I have no idea how that would look on the org chart, but my imagination allows for a collaborative scenario where Bedell is more of a position coach and "recruiting coordinator" and another guy is brought in as a boots on the ground recruiter. 

My apologies to whoever posted it, but someone mentioned the new analyst that was hired and how that was the first domino towards something similar to the above scenario playing out. Friend out, Bedell to OL, analyst to TEs, new hire. 

[Mikey 16,566]

Numbers to consider, O-line signees by recent year: Source, Rivals

Class of 2018 (Gus) 2 OL

Class of 2019 (Gus) 3 OL

Class of 2020 (Gus) 5 OL

Class of 2021 (Gus/Harsin combo) 2 OL

Class of 2022 to date (Harsin) 1 OL.

If there has, indeed, been such a failure as some would have us believe the new staff hasn't taken any visible corrective measures. Not in normal recruiting or in the portal, which in theory at least should have been a new source for any number of transfer O-linemen.

[ToomersStreet 795]

Great points.

I forget which draft it was.  Not to long ago two offensive linemen went in the first round of the NFL draft.  Their schools?  Northern Illinois and Alabama State.   Offensive line is the hardest to project however, how much grief does a coach take for passing on a 4 or 5 star?   Bottom line Harsin and Friend need to step it up.   Line was a problem before they were hired, they accepted the job now it is their problem.  Failing to sign at least four highschool linemen, 2 JUCO guys, and at least to transfers makes them part of the problem.  Analyst say the 2023 class will be far better.  we will see.  Remember Rule #76: No excuses, play like a champion.

[wcware 1,365]

6 minutes ago, ToomersStreet said:

Great points.

I forget which draft it was.  Not to long ago two offensive linemen went in the first round of the NFL draft.  Their schools?  Northern Illinois and Alabama State.   Offensive line is the hardest to project however, how much grief does a coach take for passing on a 4 or 5 star?   Bottom line Harsin and Friend need to step it up.   Line was a problem before they were hired, they accepted the job now it is their problem.  Failing to sign at least four highschool linemen, 2 JUCO guys, and at least to transfers makes them part of the problem.  Analyst say the 2023 class will be far better.  we will see.  Remember Rule #76: No excuses, play like a champion.

I believe I read somewhere that there are more 3* and under Offensive lineman in the NFL, than 4 and 5* guys. Seems to be really hard to tell who will fill out and who won’t. I think you have to recruit athleticism and meanness 

[1716AU 728]

2 hours ago, McLoofus said:

Just hope and reading the tea leaves.

I think Bedell is our guy. He's been successful coaching OLs under Harsin. He shows up time and again in the commitment photos. Like, when M'baa committed, it was Harsin and Bedell in the room. I think the issue with Bedell is that he's not a major recruiting asset for OLs right now. Maybe it's because he's not connected down here, maybe he's busy in other ways, maybe he's just not a "go out and find them" guy. Maybe he's more of a closer, or maybe he doesn't factor into recruiting at all in the way I imagine.

Either way, *it's my guess* that Harsin is trying to find an ace recruiter to add to the staff. Maybe waiting for an NFL guy, a la Eason or Davis, to finish with the playoffs or waiting until after signing day to announce Friend's departure and the hiring of a younger, more local guy, a la Caddy or Etheridge. I have no idea how that would look on the org chart, but my imagination allows for a collaborative scenario where Bedell is more of a position coach and "recruiting coordinator" and another guy is brought in as a boots on the ground recruiter. 

My apologies to whoever posted it, but someone mentioned the new analyst that was hired and how that was the first domino towards something similar to the above scenario playing out. Friend out, Bedell to OL, analyst to TEs, new hire. 

I'll TOTALLY buy into that, because your imagination is well thought out and pretty dang well seems to indicate what I have been 💬 ng for awhile, too.

[steeleagle 2,945]

7 minutes ago, 1716AU said:

I'll TOTALLY buy into that, because your imagination is well thought out and pretty dang well seems to indicate what I have been 💬 ng for awhile, too.

It does look like Harsin kept Friend HOPING his 1 year here and his history in the SEC circles would help bring in those OL needs. Harsin probably didn't have a choice for now.

With our new pro style offense that is geared towards building NFL type OL, and our passing attack, We all thought that he OL would come. It didn't seem to make a difference, did it?

So now we wait and see what Harsin does to fix it once the dust has settled before spring practice...

[autan 737]

My guess (no inside info) CBH thought CWF would resign when he fired Bobo. He probably didn't think it would be smart to fire both at same time since he had already canned WR coach. Resignation  didn't happen, but I suspect Friend's hands are tied. Can't be too active recruiting when everyone thinks Friend is gone. Recruits know. It's no secret. I still think CWF is designated whipping boy. That being said, I don't disagree with any moves Harsin has made. But this could probably been handled a little better. I just wonder if all these covid year guys are coming back because Friend leaves or Friend stays or do they care.

[JerryAU 1,657]

8 hours ago, Mikey said:

Numbers to consider, O-line signees by recent year: Source, Rivals

Class of 2018 (Gus) 2 OL

Class of 2019 (Gus) 3 OL

Class of 2020 (Gus) 5 OL

Class of 2021 (Gus/Harsin combo) 2 OL

Class of 2022 to date (Harsin) 1 OL.

If there has, indeed, been such a failure as some would have us believe the new staff hasn't taken any visible corrective measures. Not in normal recruiting or in the portal, which in theory at least should have been a new source for any number of transfer O-linemen.

Do you think it has been a failure?  1 out of 5 years AU signed an adequate number of high school olinemen.  Compare that to other SEC programs, and it does indeed look like a failure especially when we also see the '22 class tanking. 

 

[Mikey 16,566]

4 minutes ago, JerryAU said:

Do you think it has been a failure?  1 out of 5 years AU signed an adequate number of high school olinemen.  Compare that to other SEC programs, and it does indeed look like a failure especially when we also see the '22 class tanking. 

 

The recent numbers could have been better, but 10 O-linemen in Gus's final three classes doesn't fall into the failure range, IMHO. Listening to some posters here, we haven't signed an O-lineman since Pat Dye roamed the sidelines.

My main concern is that there is no evidence that an effort has been made by the new staff to hold the numbers up. Sign only one or two a year and yes, there soon won't be enough warm bodies.