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cole256

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5 hours ago, mcgufcm said:

Neither are the hot runs!! Those aren’t anomalies. That’s just the game with streaky shooters. 

Of course they're not anomalies. Since the UK game, our poor shooting halves have become the norm.

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17 minutes ago, Viper said:

https://www.espn.com/nba/playbyplay/_/gameId/401360842

10:08 Isaiah Thomas makes 23-foot three point jumper (Montrezl Harrell assists) 32 - 47

9:18 LaMelo Ball makes 25-foot three point jumper (Mason Plumlee assists) 75 - 66

8:44 LaMelo Ball makes 25-foot three point jumper (Terry Rozier assists) 78 - 69

 

Wow those two guys made four consecutive 3-pointers. Right behind the 3-point line in fact. So has Ray Allen. So has Reggie Miller. So has Larry Bird. So has Michael Jordan. So has Klay Thompson. So has James Harden. And dozens upon dozens of others.

Don't be asinine. 25-footers aren't "Steph Curry-range." 25 feet is merely 15 inches behind the 3-point line. Everyone knows Curry commonly shoots from 30+ foot range.

If you're going to quote me and provide information as a rebuttal, at least get it close to factually right. You've got 5 more feet to go.

Now go do some actual homework this time and find four consecutive made Steph Curry-range threes i.e. 30+ footers. Here's a hint, smartie...start your research with Trae Young as he might just be the only other one to have ever done it.

 

Lol you are so ignorant but you really think you're smart. First of all nobody really cares about your made up metrics. Actually go find where Steph hit 4 consecutive 30 foot shots.......Nobody even keeps up with that. I'm positive greens weren't all 30. Not that it matters at all. 

It's also funny how you chose to leave out the deep shots they hit. Like I said I watched mello hit several deep shots last night. The point is the game has changed and there are several guys who shoot deep now as it's part of the game and they aren't hard to find. Guys shoot deep. And contrary to what you believe nobody would ever come to you and ask your opinion on what's deep and what's not because why would they.

And no if I actually wanted to play your game I'd start with Lillard but that would be a stupid argument even by your standards. 

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2 hours ago, cole256 said:

Lol you are so ignorant but you really think you're smart. First of all nobody really cares about your made up metrics. Actually go find where Steph hit 4 consecutive 30 foot shots.......Nobody even keeps up with that. I'm positive greens weren't all 30. Not that it matters at all. 

It's also funny how you chose to leave out the deep shots they hit. Like I said I watched mello hit several deep shots last night. The point is the game has changed and there are several guys who shoot deep now as it's part of the game and they aren't hard to find. Guys shoot deep. And contrary to what you believe nobody would ever come to you and ask your opinion on what's deep and what's not because why would they.

And no if I actually wanted to play your game I'd start with Lillard but that would be a stupid argument even by your standards. 

Here's Ball's other two...

7:18 LaMelo Ball makes 27-foot three point jumper (Terry Rozier assists) 84 - 72

6:53 LaMelo Ball makes 28-foot three point jumper (Terry Rozier assists) 87 - 72

STILL short of 30 feet. All four of them in fact. Just another in a long line who made four just outside the arc. Still short of Curry's range, half of them by 5+ feet. Anyone can launch one from the logo. No one is more consistent in making them than Curry. BIG difference.

The ignorant points out facts.

The smartie thought he knew better, but quickly realized his last post was just the same as all of his rest...opinionated bricks.

Your condescending opinions on this forum as some self-proclaimed basketball wanna-be guru are exactly the reason I ignore your posts. If you actually had a quarter the knowledge you boast on this forum, you wouldn't be on this forum. Instead, you would be coaching at a high level. But your narcissism nips that squarely in the bud. I wouldn't want my teenager learning a damn thing from you except to be the opposite of you. You even got into it with JwgreDeux, who is CLEARLY the only basketball guru on this forum and void of all the entitlement you crave.

Have never boasted about my court time or wisdom of the game. It's called being humble, a trait you severely lack. But guaranteed I've got more court time lacing my Nike's than you have game time...junior.

Now, you've got homework to do. Use your holier-than-thou knowledge of the game and find another player who's made four consecutive 30+ footers. Go fetch, smartie.

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6 hours ago, Viper said:

Here's Ball's other two...

7:18 LaMelo Ball makes 27-foot three point jumper (Terry Rozier assists) 84 - 72

6:53 LaMelo Ball makes 28-foot three point jumper (Terry Rozier assists) 87 - 72

STILL short of 30 feet. All four of them in fact. Just another in a long line who made four just outside the arc. Still short of Curry's range, half of them by 5+ feet. Anyone can launch one from the logo. No one is more consistent in making them than Curry. BIG difference.

The ignorant points out facts.

The smartie thought he knew better, but quickly realized his last post was just the same as all of his rest...opinionated bricks.

Your condescending opinions on this forum as some self-proclaimed basketball wanna-be guru are exactly the reason I ignore your posts. If you actually had a quarter the knowledge you boast on this forum, you wouldn't be on this forum. Instead, you would be coaching at a high level. But your narcissism nips that squarely in the bud. I wouldn't want my teenager learning a damn thing from you except to be the opposite of you. You even got into it with JwgreDeux, who is CLEARLY the only basketball guru on this forum and void of all the entitlement you crave.

Have never boasted about my court time or wisdom of the game. It's called being humble, a trait you severely lack. But guaranteed I've got more court time lacing my Nike's than you have game time...junior.

Now, you've got homework to do. Use your holier-than-thou knowledge of the game and find another player who's made four consecutive 30+ footers. Go fetch, smartie.

The only person that has bragged about basketball is you and I can tell by the way you talk, you suck

YYou miss the point that the 30 foot thing is literally a metric you made up. It doesn't exist that curry range is 30 feet. That's an imaginary line you made up in your head. 

I don't coach because I chose not to coach. I'm more interested in science. But it's stupid to think you have to be a D1 coach to have an basketball IQ. 

See the difference between me and you is the absolute love of the game. You are intimidated when I talk basketball and because you can tell I know whatever I say your mind goes to he knows more than me when in actuality just like anybody else that may have said the ignorant stuff you just did you can't point out me ever saying anything of the sort. But I'm not in control of your feelings. I just really love basketball and I like talking basketball, you can't point out any time someone was legit just talking no insults and stuff and I ever have said something like I know more than you so I'm right. Most time it's like your situation, it's just you're a big bitch and if someone disagrees with you or even you think disagrees with you you cry and you make up stuff like you just did.

Yeah you never boasted about your garage you made for all your trophies.....that didn't happen. I'll go as far to say you are the ONLY person to brag and say something like that.

It's hilarious how you scream for attention. Nobody is going to say hey Viper what do you think lol. You were already ran off the board once and got exposed.....I guess you're trying to do it on the basketball side now that you were laughed off the football side.

I'm still waiting for you to show me anybody who's made or even shot the imaginary metric of 4 30 foot shots. Then show me green making them

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11 hours ago, akillshot said:

@cole256Some items that come to mind are:

Besides making shots, best way for Auburn to run the offense in the postseason

Lot of talk about the guards not feeding the post - what's the process to develop that (too late for this year of course)

Thoughts on Zep's whole game - some of the comments and articles I've seen on him impress me about him as a person, not just a basketball player

How does Flanigan get back to where he was or better - He's one my favorites with how he developed from a freshman to his second year - improved free throw shooting, improved shot-making, and his physical development in that offseason. His unfortunate injury was ruinous for him for this year.

 

 

As far as the guards feeding the post, imo that's not a skill set that has to be learned. It's simply a decision that our guards for whatever reason don't seem to choose. It's very frustrating though, because if you really want to be an elite shooter those are passes you have to make. 

To get separation and to consistently get yourself good shots you have to learn how to operate giving up the ball. The most gifted ball handlers still can't move as fast as a guy but dribbling at all. It just seems to me our guards feel if they don't have the ball they can't score or it can't lead to a score. 

When I think of prolific 3 point shooters in college I think of Steph and guys like JJ redick and if you watch their college highlights a bunch of film is going to show them giving the ball up and running around and then getting the ball back. 

The best shooters aren't guys that just dribble dribble dribble. I think that has to be a coach thing in him saying hey this isn't acceptable. We are going to pass the ball in the post a little more no matter what. 

 

I think Zep is like the equivalent to a shut down corner in football. He not only has great lateral quickness but he's very smart. He has tremendous defensive instincts. I've seen him do some tricks that when I played I would do.

Basketball is a game of rhythm and repetition. You go off your instincts all the time. I would watch a guy and when I'm on defense I'd just fake step, or fake lunge at the ball to see if they crossover, or in and out, or maybe go behind their back or whatever move to get away. Eventually I would fake the step to cause them to counter and I'd be waiting on the counter to cause a turnover. I'd would always have this trick in my bag and I wouldn't ever try it until the end of the game. 

Most guys only have one counter, more advanced guys two. But doing stuff like that for that little bit of time, takes control from them. Now it's only a split second but if you play it right that second can be very important. In my mind it was literally me keeping a turnover in my pocket. I knew I ALWAYS had this one free turnover and I would want to use it at the best time. 

But anyway I've seen Zep do that a few times and it makes me smile. I think him being so good on defense hurts his mindset at times too though. I feel like he knows that's his role and he focusses on that so much that he doesn't gives himself credit on his potential on the offensive side of the ball. We are a much better team when he's on top of his game facilitating. We have to have at least one guy who 's not automatically thinking score. We need a guy who sets up the table as well. I think he's the best person for that role. 

I don't think Flan can get back to that THIS year. It's just too many variables that changed. First his injury, he and coach Pearl says he's still hurt. Then on top of that you go from the primary scorer to the 4th option.....that's a huge change. Then all these guys are brand new to him and he was hurt so he didn't have time to mesh. They threw him in and he's learning on the fly. I just hate to see him get killed on here by people. 

This last part is strictly just my opinion but I feel our fan base makes heroes out of the wrong players most of the time. Like last year they tried to make Powell the hero and they kill Flan when in actuality the only guy that had and played like an Alpha in big games was Flan. And even this year Johnson goes 0-14 and I still saw posts of people taking up for him there was another game flan only shot 3 times and made 2 of them and still he gets killed for the one missed shot 😂......that's just tough.

What are your thoughts?

Edited by cole256
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Sometimes not feeding the post is a result of what play your running. AU does alot of high post pick and rolls, where whoever is setting the post will roll to the basket. To me feeding the post is when Kessler or whoever has his man pinned behind him and getting the pass from the guard. Then it's either a low post move or if someone comes to double a kick out 3. But for some reason that's either not part of our offense or players just don't do it. We also have alot of isolation plays where Jabari gets the ball 15 ft or so with his back to basket. IMO nothing is prettier than for a guard to feed the post, the post gets doubled and then kicks out to an open man for the 3. We don't do alot of that. 

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On 3/15/2022 at 12:21 PM, Viper said:

Missouri 2nd Half 25%

Georgia 2nd Half 32.35%

Arkansas 1st Half 26.47%

Florida 1st Half 33.33%

Tennessee 2nd Half 33.33%

MSU 2nd Half 28.57%

South Carolina 2nd Half 33.33%

Including A&M, that’s EIGHT of our last 13 games.

Those figures are not anomalies. Those aren’t “if” scenarios. Those poor-shooting halves have become the norm. It’s a disturbing trend.

 

Excellent!  I think your stats prove their point.

If you average the 7 games you quoted, that’d be 30.35%.  If we shoot that percentage in the first half in lieu of the 16.22% anomaly, then we make approx. 5 more shots.  Assuming those are 2’s then we win by 5.

Easy-peasy …

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I personally believe the primary issue is a fairly simple one. Movement, both ball movement and body movement without the ball. The guards start dribbling and the ball stops moving. Jabari gets a catch and bodies stop moving. Better movement can help all areas that ail us. Takes pressure off ball handlers, shifts the defense and makes passing easier, creates better shooting opportunities off the catch and should also help get some cuts for Flan/Devin. 

I would like to see us use the dribble weave we showed a little bit off at the end of the regular season, keep two guards high during pick and rolls to give Green more options if trapped or pressed by the big on the screen, use Smith more in pick and rolls and look for Kessler in a high/low action. As @cole256said some pindowns for Flan could also be good options. Perhaps a pindown screen for Kessler before he comes and sets the pick and roll screen to get a defender in the pick and roll that is not accustomed to being there. 

I trust CBP has something in store to help our movement issues. For the average watcher, if you see movement on the offensive end, good, if you see players standing, bad. 

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8 hours ago, cole256 said:

This last part is strictly just my opinion but I feel our fan base makes heroes out of the wrong players most of the time. Like last year they tried to make Powell the hero and they kill Flan when in actuality the only guy that had and played like an Alpha in big games was Flan. And even this year Johnson goes 0-14 and I still saw posts of people taking up for him there was another game flan only shot 3 times and made 2 of them and still he gets killed for the one missed shot 😂......that's just tough.

What are your thoughts?

Thanks for your responses to my items. As for the last part of your post, I think part of it is based on the amount of knowledge individual fans may have about the game that affects their view of individual players. Last year, Powell did pretty well early with lots of press in that time, etc. He had a pretty stroke and people get on the bandwagon. Then, when things didn't go as well for him, there was already the  certain view and people don't change what they think they know very easily. Flan got beat up because he wound up serving as the lead guard in a lot of games which is not his real position/role so people got down on him. For me, I could look at how hard he had worked between his freshman and sophomore years; that Pearl was talking about him playing out of position; and feel very positive about his contributions. I hope Flan comes back next year and gets back to where the latter part of the first round of the NBA draft is what people see for him.

I think another part of it is just the internet/forums method of communication. It's hard to really understand tone, true meaning, etc. and the anonymity leads to more harsh rhetoric sometimes, I believe. Having said that, I think the vast majority (if not 100%) of posters just want good things for Auburn players and teams.

War Eagle!

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19 hours ago, JwgreDeux said:

I trust CBP has something in store to help our movement issues. 

I have been waiting for it all season, but it’s just not going to happen. It’s disturbing. Can’t be on just the coaches. We saw it in 2019. So it’s the players. As Bruce pointed out sarcastically, KD would never pass it if he were the go-to guy on the team. So it’s an unwillingness to trust one another. It’s a hero ball mentality that refuses to break. And it will be our undoing in this tournament. 

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22 hours ago, Viper said:

I have been waiting for it all season, but it’s just not going to happen. It’s disturbing. Can’t be on just the coaches. We saw it in 2019. So it’s the players. As Bruce pointed out sarcastically, KD would never pass it if he were the go-to guy on the team. So it’s an unwillingness to trust one another. It’s a hero ball mentality that refuses to break. And it will be our undoing in this tournament. 

This is a gross oversimplification of our issues. I do think there are moments of hero ball, but I think there are more moments of too few good options for the ball handler (who ever it may be). Off ball movement can be coached and player initiated in small windows to help (not cure) what ails us. 

There have been different sets and scheme tried in the last 10-12 games that I have talked about in other places, so to say it isn't going to happen ignores that they have been trying to improve in this area. I am optimistic this team can get back in a better flow. 

 

Let's go get this first win! Survive and advance. 

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1 hour ago, JwgreDeux said:

This is a gross oversimplification of our issues. I do think there are moments of hero ball, but I think there are more moments of too few good options for the ball handler (who ever it may be). Off ball movement can be coached and player initiated in small windows to help (not cure) what ails us. 

There have been different sets and scheme tried in the last 10-12 games that I have talked about in other places, so to say it isn't going to happen ignores that they have been trying to improve in this area. I am optimistic this team can get back in a better flow. 

 

Let's go get this first win! Survive and advance. 

Yep

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This was a great first step and strong response I expected. Now we build from that. We're not some dead team that can't compete, we are a threat in this tournament! 

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3 hours ago, JwgreDeux said:

This is a gross oversimplification of our issues. I do think there are moments of hero ball, but I think there are more moments of too few good options for the ball handler (who ever it may be). Off ball movement can be coached and player initiated in small windows to help (not cure) what ails us. 

There have been different sets and scheme tried in the last 10-12 games that I have talked about in other places, so to say it isn't going to happen ignores that they have been trying to improve in this area. I am optimistic this team can get back in a better flow. 

 

Let's go get this first win! Survive and advance. 

Between UK and Jax St (13 games), there were a LOT of moments of hero ball, esp on the road, even for ice cold players. WAY too many 1-pass or no-pass possessions with teammates just standing.

A FULL week off obviously paid huge dividends, working on movement, both on-ball and off-ball.

You were right they could back into a better flow. Took them 6 weeks, but it finally happened.

The Jax St game was EASILY the best on-ball and off-ball movement on the road this season. Glad to see it. Let's keep it up!

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7 minutes ago, cole256 said:

@JwgreDeux Yo. What team or teams in your opinion would worry you if we had to play as far as match ups?

Miami plays small and has a lot of guards, I'd rather play USC I think, although they play better defense. 

Wisconsin has a guy who can go off and beat you, so you have to respect that team

Kansas of course will be a stout test for anyone, they have a guy as well, with a very strong supporting case. 

That being said, I feel good about our ability to defend, so what I would look at is what are the best defenses we are going to face, as our trouble is usually on the offensive end. 

LSU would be the best defense in our region, but I don't think they will advance to face us. Iowa St would be next and they play slow and ugly so may not be a pretty matchup even though our talent is far superior. No one else has a top 50 defensive efficiency so I feel pretty good about our draw. 

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37 minutes ago, cole256 said:

@JwgreDeux Yo. What team or teams in your opinion would worry you if we had to play as far as match ups?

What about you?

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1 hour ago, Viper said:

Between UK and Jax St (13 games), there were a LOT of moments of hero ball, esp on the road, even for ice cold players. WAY too many 1-pass or no-pass possessions with teammates just standing.

A FULL week off obviously paid huge dividends, working on movement, both on-ball and off-ball.

You were right they could back into a better flow. Took them 6 weeks, but it finally happened.

The Jax St game was EASILY the best on-ball and off-ball movement on the road this season. Glad to see it. Let's keep it up!

Perhaps we just disagree on what is hero ball. I agree there were too many possessions without ball movement, but the root of that is not always hero ball or ball hoging. Sometimes, and in my opinion often times, that comes from the ball handler not having/seeing better options. 

In any event, given what we have seen from this team this season, I did think this was something we would improve on and believe we can continue to play that way if we stay locked in. 

 

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  • 3 weeks later...
5 hours ago, Viper said:

All 30s...

Auburn-vs-Texas-A-M-2022-bball-3-11-22-S

Auburn-vs-Texas-A-M-2022-bball-3-11-22-S

Auburn-vs-Texas-A-M-2022-bball-3-11-22-S

Auburn-vs-Texas-A-M-2022-bball-3-11-22-S

That's where mello shot his from that you said weren't 30 and to keep wanting to argue about 30 is stupid in itself as that's a number that you literally pulled out of your ass. But if I did want to argue with you none of those are 30 feet. Maybe the last one

You really barking up a wrong tree because there's nobody on here that cares less about anything you have to say. I never talked to you before they ran you off, I never talked to you when you came back, we don't have to talk now. You can continue to go about your day and post without talking to me. 

Edited by cole256
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3-point line is 22', 1 3/4". The first pic is the shortest distance he made of the four shots. The defender in the first pic is 6'. His arm length approx 2.5'. Can easily tell if he fell down where he's standing with arms out-stretched, that would be the approx distance Green is shooting from the 3-point line, which would be 8.5' beyond the 3-point line, which would be a 30.5' shot.

Regardless if the first of the four shots was 29.5', 30' or 30.5' and it's obvious the other three were even further, the fact that you are arguing that Green's four consecutive threes standing just in front of, parallel to, the outer edge of the SEC logo, weren't impressive as a College player because two NBA players did it in the same game, when in fact they did not, unless you're alleging ESPN posts incorrect box stats.

It's maddening what you will argue. Even posting proof of where he shot them from. Nope...didn't happen according to you. Posting stats from ESPN's box score. Nope...didn't happen according to you. No logical discussion from you. No "hmm...on second thought...you have a point." It's "you're always right and everyone else is wrong." It's why I put you on ignore. Back to ignore you go.

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Never said anything wasn't impressive, here you go with your exaggeration argument shtick I guess.....but cool when I said it, it wasn't 30 feet when you say it, it is. Good thing you get paid to be the official 28 ft isn't anything but 30 ft is EVERYTHING guy.

Tell Steph I said what up since you are the official curry range identifier. I'm sure all the trophies in your garage next to your chuck Taylors were the ultimate resume kicker that got you on his payroll.

Now please don't tag me or speak to me again. Just keep on pretending.

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If we’re really arguing about this, no chance that first shot is 30. He’s 4-5 feet past the line on the horizontal line. The third and fourth ones are probably 30. He’s wider on the court at the third. He’s clearly multiple feet deeper on the last shot. Look at his depth compared to the timeline. 

None of it matters, but it’s fun to argue irrelevant things sometimes. 

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2 hours ago, mcgufcm said:

If we’re really arguing about this, no chance that first shot is 30. He’s 4-5 feet past the line on the horizontal line. The third and fourth ones are probably 30. He’s wider on the court at the third. He’s clearly multiple feet deeper on the last shot. Look at his depth compared to the timeline. 

None of it matters, but it’s fun to argue irrelevant things sometimes. 

#4 for A&M is 6’ tall, has his arm out-stretched and isn’t close to blocking the first shot. Plus Green’s back foot, when planted on the floor, is parallel to the SEC logo. 

It wouldn’t matter if dumbass above didn’t discount what Green did, which was four consecutive 30-footers. What Green did is unheard of in college because most college HCs frown upon shooting Steph Curry 3’s, so we rarely see one. Four consecutive in college from that distance is unheard of. That was why it mattered. 

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But the front edge of the SEC logo isn’t close to 30’ on a line from the rim. Green’s shooting from the elbow-ish so it’s deeper, but that first one is a 26-27 foot shot. He’s noticeably deeper as those images progress. If that one is 30, he would be shooting from 34 or so by the end, and that’s not true. 

Incredible display from him. But that’s not a 30 footer. 

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