Hunter's laptop

[bigbird 60,367]

Anyone here willing to admit they were wrong? 

https://www.mediaite.com/tv/fox-friends-airs-supercut-of-msnbc-and-cnn-acting-like-now-verified-hunter-biden-story-was-russian-disinfo/

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/10/19/hunter-biden-story-russian-disinfo-430276

https://mynbc15.com/amp/news/nation-world/journalists-lose-face-after-nyt-confirms-hunter-biden-emails-not-russian-disinformation

 

[bigbird 60,367]

Foreign state created media disinformation and censorship = Just the worst 

Domestic created media disinformation and censorship = ?

 

Subject aside, the way this situation was allowed to be handled by the networks and Facebook should scare the hell out of any sane individual.  The complete lack of accountability by any involved is sickening.

[I_M4_AU 7,759]

32 minutes ago, bigbird said:

Foreign state created media disinformation and censorship = Just the worst 

Domestic created media disinformation and censorship = ?

 

Subject aside, the way this situation was allowed to be handled by the networks and Facebook should scare the hell out of any sane individual.  The complete lack of accountability by any involved is sickening.

Your first statement should be amended.  The domestic gaslighting to affect an election has got to be the worst, after all, it is a *threat to our democracy*.

 

[TitanTiger 20,463]

I'm pretty comfortable with what I said about the laptop at the time.  My position on it was that there were too many unanswered and unverified questions regarding authenticity (so much so that Fox wouldn't even run with it at the time) and that even if they did prove to be Hunter's emails, they didn't implicate his father in any of it.  A sample of my responses...

 

I'm saying I have serious questions as to the authenticity of the emails and the veracity of whose laptop it actually is.  I think the store owner's story has a lot of inconsistencies and there are some logical problems with the timeline and story that I've yet to hear good answers for.  On top of that, the people pushing the story the hardest have not the greatest track record on honesty and reliability.  So I have serious doubts.  I'm open to changing my mind on it certainly - I don't think it's any secret that Hunter Biden has addiction issues and other problems.  But you can read my posts here as to why I'm not yet accepting this as gospel.  

I'll also say, even if it is Hunter's laptop and emails, what still hasn't been proven - like at all - is that Hunter was doing anything other than blowing smoke.  In other words, ultimately the only part of this story that really matters beyond the salacious is whether Joe Biden had these meetings Hunter claims he can get in the first place.  Thus far, with what we have, even if we ignore all the obvious issues with the story right now and accept it at face value - we just have the airing of an embarrassing episode in his kid's life.

That can change.  But we'll need more than this to do it.

https://www.aufamily.com/forums/topic/173329-biden-and-ukraine-exposed/?do=findComment&comment=3281739

 

 

 

I didn't put this together, but this illustrates the leaps of logic and mental gymnastics it takes to put any serious credence in this Hunter Biden laptop story right now.  Obviously if someone can come up with more evidence to verify the authenticity of the emails and the laptop being Hunter's in the first place, we can revisit. 

https://www.aufamily.com/forums/topic/173329-biden-and-ukraine-exposed/?do=findComment&comment=3278738

 

 

If you are even attempting to be a legitimate journalistic enterprise, and you have reason to doubt the authenticity, veracity and chain of custody of a story and the elements therein, you absolutely have a responsibility not to just report on it anyway as if "well, it *might* be true we just don't know."  Just throwing a farrago of questionable trash out into the media stream, hoping that people will just talk about it even if they criticize it, is exactly what those who like to use this tactic want.  They don't care if it goes away in a week or so, if you poke holes in it and so on.  The end goal isn't a slam dunk, smoking gun that brings the other guy down.  It's just to create a shitstorm of doubt based on vapor and whispers.

The NY Post can keep posting stuff from the laptop til the cows come home and they probably will, because they are honestly just a frog hair better than a tabloid as it is.  Their journalistic standards are so low already, they barely reach curb-height.  But the fact remains that there are MAJOR problems with the authenticity of the emails they are printing, MAJOR problems with veracity of ownership of this laptop, MAJOR problems with the owner of the repair shop's story and the timeline(s) he's offered, and so on.  Until you fix those things, just publishing more from the same questionable source isn't truth telling.  It's just contributing to the well-worn Bannon tactic of throwing a truckload of s*** against the wall to see what sticks - and even if none of it sticks, everyone is so caught up in the mess itself they don't have time to even sift through it all before the next wave comes.  And THAT - not finding the truth about Hunter Biden - is what they are aiming for.

https://www.aufamily.com/forums/topic/173329-biden-and-ukraine-exposed/?do=findComment&comment=3278604

 

And it's being dismissed for the same reasons that we've been going round and round with Social since the NY Post story on Hunter's laptop came out - for making assertions and claims that go beyond what the evidence (such as it is) shows.  And that's even if you take it as being Hunter's actual emails in the first place.  If the emails are true it shows that Hunter traded on his name to try and make money.  But it does not show Joe Biden was actually ever involved and it certainly doesn't show he received one flat dime from it.

https://www.aufamily.com/forums/topic/173577-article-on-joe-and-hunter-biden-censored-by-the-intercept/?do=findComment&comment=3289756

 

 

I don't know if the emails are valid or if the laptop is really Hunter's or if that latter part was fabricated to come up with a plausible way for it to get into someone else's hands.  I do know the story was so sketch that even FoxNews wouldn't take it on.  And thus far, I know that there's no actual connection to Joe himself.  If some actual proof of that comes out, then we have a story on our hands.  But we aren't there yet - not by a long stretch.

https://www.aufamily.com/forums/topic/173329-biden-and-ukraine-exposed/?do=findComment&comment=3283394

 

 

[bigbird 60,367]

15 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

I'm pretty comfortable with what I said about the laptop at the time.  My position on it was that there were too many unanswered and unverified questions regarding authenticity (so much so that Fox wouldn't even run with it at the time) and that even if they did prove to be Hunter's emails, they didn't implicate his father in any of it.  A sample of my responses...

 

I'm saying I have serious questions as to the authenticity of the emails and the veracity of whose laptop it actually is.  I think the store owner's story has a lot of inconsistencies and there are some logical problems with the timeline and story that I've yet to hear good answers for.  On top of that, the people pushing the story the hardest have not the greatest track record on honesty and reliability.  So I have serious doubts.  I'm open to changing my mind on it certainly - I don't think it's any secret that Hunter Biden has addiction issues and other problems.  But you can read my posts here as to why I'm not yet accepting this as gospel.  

I'll also say, even if it is Hunter's laptop and emails, what still hasn't been proven - like at all - is that Hunter was doing anything other than blowing smoke.  In other words, ultimately the only part of this story that really matters beyond the salacious is whether Joe Biden had these meetings Hunter claims he can get in the first place.  Thus far, with what we have, even if we ignore all the obvious issues with the story right now and accept it at face value - we just have the airing of an embarrassing episode in his kid's life.

That can change.  But we'll need more than this to do it.

https://www.aufamily.com/forums/topic/173329-biden-and-ukraine-exposed/?do=findComment&comment=3281739

 

 

 

I didn't put this together, but this illustrates the leaps of logic and mental gymnastics it takes to put any serious credence in this Hunter Biden laptop story right now.  Obviously if someone can come up with more evidence to verify the authenticity of the emails and the laptop being Hunter's in the first place, we can revisit. 

https://www.aufamily.com/forums/topic/173329-biden-and-ukraine-exposed/?do=findComment&comment=3278738

 

 

If you are even attempting to be a legitimate journalistic enterprise, and you have reason to doubt the authenticity, veracity and chain of custody of a story and the elements therein, you absolutely have a responsibility not to just report on it anyway as if "well, it *might* be true we just don't know."  Just throwing a farrago of questionable trash out into the media stream, hoping that people will just talk about it even if they criticize it, is exactly what those who like to use this tactic want.  They don't care if it goes away in a week or so, if you poke holes in it and so on.  The end goal isn't a slam dunk, smoking gun that brings the other guy down.  It's just to create a shitstorm of doubt based on vapor and whispers.

The NY Post can keep posting stuff from the laptop til the cows come home and they probably will, because they are honestly just a frog hair better than a tabloid as it is.  Their journalistic standards are so low already, they barely reach curb-height.  But the fact remains that there are MAJOR problems with the authenticity of the emails they are printing, MAJOR problems with veracity of ownership of this laptop, MAJOR problems with the owner of the repair shop's story and the timeline(s) he's offered, and so on.  Until you fix those things, just publishing more from the same questionable source isn't truth telling.  It's just contributing to the well-worn Bannon tactic of throwing a truckload of s*** against the wall to see what sticks - and even if none of it sticks, everyone is so caught up in the mess itself they don't have time to even sift through it all before the next wave comes.  And THAT - not finding the truth about Hunter Biden - is what they are aiming for.

https://www.aufamily.com/forums/topic/173329-biden-and-ukraine-exposed/?do=findComment&comment=3278604

 

And it's being dismissed for the same reasons that we've been going round and round with Social since the NY Post story on Hunter's laptop came out - for making assertions and claims that go beyond what the evidence (such as it is) shows.  And that's even if you take it as being Hunter's actual emails in the first place.  If the emails are true it shows that Hunter traded on his name to try and make money.  But it does not show Joe Biden was actually ever involved and it certainly doesn't show he received one flat dime from it.

https://www.aufamily.com/forums/topic/173577-article-on-joe-and-hunter-biden-censored-by-the-intercept/?do=findComment&comment=3289756

 

 

I don't know if the emails are valid or if the laptop is really Hunter's or if that latter part was fabricated to come up with a plausible way for it to get into someone else's hands.  I do know the story was so sketch that even FoxNews wouldn't take it on.  And thus far, I know that there's no actual connection to Joe himself.  If some actual proof of that comes out, then we have a story on our hands.  But we aren't there yet - not by a long stretch.

https://www.aufamily.com/forums/topic/173329-biden-and-ukraine-exposed/?do=findComment&comment=3283394

 

 

How do you feel about the lack of media coverage, coming and going, as well as the social media censoring?

[I_M4_AU 7,759]

15 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

My position on it was that there were too many unanswered and unverified questions regarding authenticity (so much so that Fox wouldn't even run with it at the time) and that even if they did prove to be Hunter's emails, they didn't implicate his father in any of it

The issue is; how could reporters press for answers when the Democrats and media (but I repeat myself) wouldn’t even ask those type of questions because it was immediately quashed?

Tony Bobulinski was brave enough to come out and confirm the meaning of the emails from that laptop and nothing from the press, nothing.  It definitely raised doubt, but only FOX would give it credence, hence it was deemed a conspiracy theory or FOX buying into Russian disinformation.

I don’t know if there is anything incriminating about the laptop, but I sure would have liked to known before the election.

[TitanTiger 20,463]

Just now, I_M4_AU said:

The issue is; how could reporters press for answers when the Democrats and media (but I repeat myself) wouldn’t even ask those type of questions because it was immediately quashed?

Tony Bobulinski was brave enough to come out and confirm the meaning of the emails from that laptop and nothing from the press, nothing.  It definitely raised doubt, but only FOX would give it credence, hence it was deemed a conspiracy theory or FOX buying into Russian disinformation.

I don’t know if there is anything incriminating about the laptop, but I sure would have liked to known before the election.

We did know before the election.  We had the contents of the emails.  And even if you assumed they were authentic, they still didn't implicate Joe Biden in any of it.

[TitanTiger 20,463]

21 minutes ago, bigbird said:

How do you feel about the lack of media coverage, coming and going, as well as the social media censoring?

I think given the questionable authenticity (at the time) of the laptop and emails, and the unwillingness of Giuliani and others who had access to it to have it forensically examined, the coverage was appropriate.  I can't speak to the social media censoring, but that's always a tough call.  Those platforms have been weaponized for misinformation and they're trying to get a handle on it. Their tools and ability to do so are blunt and rudimentary at best.

[I_M4_AU 7,759]

10 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

We did know before the election.  We had the contents of the emails.  And even if you assumed they were authentic, they still didn't implicate Joe Biden in any of it.

Bobulinski came out before the election with his revelations and specially named Joe Biden as the “big guy” getting 10% of the take.  This was before the election and implicated Joe Biden; what else do you require?  A smoking gun.

[icanthearyou 4,462]

I admit I was skeptical about the authenticity of the the laptop.  I just could not believe even Hunter Biden could be so stupid.  I was wrong.  Furthermore, I should have known better.  I went to school with plenty of the prep school privileged punks who believed they could do whatever they wanted (not all, but many).  I have never believed Hunter Biden was a decent human being.  Hunter Biden's only concern in the world is,,,  Hunter Biden.

 

 

[I_M4_AU 7,759]

35 minutes ago, icanthearyou said:

Hunter Biden's only concern in the world is,,,  Hunter Biden.

Hunter Biden is not the concern here.  It’s the manipulation of the media and social media to ensure his father became the President.

[TexasTiger 12,795]

1 hour ago, I_M4_AU said:

Bobulinski came out before the election with his revelations and specially named Joe Biden as the “big guy” getting 10% of the take.  This was before the election and implicated Joe Biden; what else do you require?  A smoking gun.

So some random guy made a claim — is that all you require? No financial records?

[icanthearyou 4,462]

9 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

Hunter Biden is not the concern here.  It’s the manipulation of the media and social media to ensure his father became the President.

I don't believe that is what happened.  I believe there was skepticism and caution exercised for good reason.  I would have to see evidence of a conspiracy before believing in one.

[AU9377 4,908]

3 hours ago, bigbird said:

Anyone here willing to admit they were wrong? 

https://www.mediaite.com/tv/fox-friends-airs-supercut-of-msnbc-and-cnn-acting-like-now-verified-hunter-biden-story-was-russian-disinfo/

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/10/19/hunter-biden-story-russian-disinfo-430276

https://mynbc15.com/amp/news/nation-world/journalists-lose-face-after-nyt-confirms-hunter-biden-emails-not-russian-disinformation

 

And the worst thing contained in those emails is a possible FARA violation.  Is that really worth right wing media's 24/7 obsession with Hunter Biden?

[I_M4_AU 7,759]

4 minutes ago, TexasTiger said:

So some random guy made a claim — is that all you require? No financial records?

Random????  He was working with Hunter with his China associates.  He had a meeting with Joe *the big guy* Biden.  How could you get financial records it there was not investigation?  That’s the point, the laptop was squashed.

[TexasTiger 12,795]

4 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

Hunter Biden is not the concern here.  It’s the manipulation of the media and social media to ensure his father became the President.

The “media” better understood how manipulated it had been in 2016 and this had many of the same markers, including the same crooked pitchman, Rudy. It did look like disinformation. The timing of the story allowed just enough time for disinformation and not enough to show whether there was anything actually relevant to Biden. So they made a judgement call. I’ll guarantee you any substantiated story damaging to Biden would have gotten tons of coverage by the MSM at any point then or now. Hillary’s emails got more coverage despite the lack of meaningful substance than any in my life.

Okay, so it’s Hunter’s laptop— that’s proven to be relevant to Joe’s candidacy how exactly? Hard facts, not the same BS innuendo we always hear. What’s the real meat of this story?

[TexasTiger 12,795]

5 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

Random????  He was working with Hunter with his China associates.  He had a meeting with Joe *the big guy* Biden.  How could you get financial records it there was not investigation?  That’s the point, the laptop was squashed.

The FBI was given the laptop. Trump’s Justice department started an investigation into Hunter, right?

The guy with the laptop also, probably illegally, gave a copy of the hard drive to Guiliani:

”Mr. Isaac declined to discuss his next steps, but The New York Post reported that in September, he gave the copy of the hard drive to Mr. Giuliani’s lawyer, Robert J. Costello. Mr. Giuliani later provided it to the tabloid, a handoff in which Stephen K. Bannon, a former adviser to Mr. Trump who was indicted in an unrelated fraud case, also played an unspecified role. Since the Post article was published, a clamorous Mr. Giuliani has pushed the allegations and said they prove the Bidens are corrupt. Mr. Giuliani also said in an interview that he alerted Mr. Trump that the tabloid would be publishing an article about the laptop in case he was asked about it.

 

The Trump campaign had it. Murdoch’s news empire had it— where’s the meat? What’s the allegation based on it contents? If it’s illegal, what was stopping them for engaging in more than innuendo?

[I_M4_AU 7,759]

9 minutes ago, icanthearyou said:

I don't believe that is what happened.  I believe there was skepticism and caution exercised for good reason.  I would have to see evidence of a conspiracy before believing in one.

What convinced you of that?  Was it James Clapper saying it was classic Russian disinformation?  Was it the 50 CIA people that wrote a letter that is was Russian disinformation?  How could Russia have had a disinformation campaign on a physical laptop and what was in it?

At the time a lot of Democrats wanted Trump out, mainly because they believed the only reason he was President was Russia helped him get elected.  It was a calculated move to float the idea it was happening again and really had the desired affect.  The media shut it down because that wasn’t going to happen again.  The Democrats just let the media go on.

[I_M4_AU 7,759]

2 minutes ago, TexasTiger said:

The FBI was given the laptop. Trump’s Justice department started an investigation into Hunter, right?

The guy with the laptop also, probably illegally, gave a copy of the hard drive to Guiliani:

”Mr. Isaac declined to discuss his next steps, but The New York Post reported that in September, he gave the copy of the hard drive to Mr. Giuliani’s lawyer, Robert J. Costello. Mr. Giuliani later provided it to the tabloid, a handoff in which Stephen K. Bannon, a former adviser to Mr. Trump who was indicted in an unrelated fraud case, also played an unspecified role. Since the Post article was published, a clamorous Mr. Giuliani has pushed the allegations and said they prove the Bidens are corrupt. Mr. Giuliani also said in an interview that he alerted Mr. Trump that the tabloid would be publishing an article about the laptop in case he was asked about it.

 

The Trump campaign had it. Murdoch’s news empire had it— where’s the meat? What’s the allegation based on it contents? If it’s illegal, what was stopping them for engaging in more than innuendo?

I think Bobulinski didn’t step forward until just before the election.  To me he is the smoking gun.  The problem with Giuliani is he didn’t leak it soon enough.  The Dems had time on their hands and control of the House.

The fact that Giuliani had a copy of the hard drive (illegally or not) is how this stuff works isn’t it?  The Steele Dossier as an example.

[I_M4_AU 7,759]

33 minutes ago, TexasTiger said:

The “media” better understood how manipulated it had been in 2016 and this had many of the same markers, including the same crooked pitchman, Rudy. It did look like disinformation

This is the point I am trying to make.  The media may have been duped in 2016 so they definitely weren’t going to fall for it again. There didn’t seem to be any due diligence with the laptop story, especially after James Clapper and the boys wrote their letter.

 

36 minutes ago, TexasTiger said:

Okay, so it’s Hunter’s laptop— that’s proven to be relevant to Joe’s candidacy how exactly? Hard facts, not the same BS innuendo we always hear. What’s the real meat of this story?

The relevance to Joe has yet to be investigated.  How could you have hard facts if the accuracy of the laptop was just admitted to days ago.  I know the FBI has had the laptop for a while, but they are tight lipped about investigations.  I would expect, if the midterms go Republican, we will see a whole hearted investigation.  Whether that produces any evidence of Joe’s participation is yet to be seen.

[TexasTiger 12,795]

1 hour ago, I_M4_AU said:

This is the point I am trying to make.  The media may have been duped in 2016 so they definitely weren’t going to fall for it again. There didn’t seem to be any due diligence with the laptop story, especially after James Clapper and the boys wrote their letter.

 

The relevance to Joe has yet to be investigated.  How could you have hard facts if the accuracy of the laptop was just admitted to days ago.  I know the FBI has had the laptop for a while, but they are tight lipped about investigations.  I would expect, if the midterms go Republican, we will see a whole hearted investigation.  Whether that produces any evidence of Joe’s participation is yet to be seen.

The FBI & Trumps Justice Department had the laptop since 2019. You say it hasn’t been investigated— the best evidence we have indicated it has been:

“Mr. Isaac said he met with F.B.I. agents in late 2019 and provided them with a timeline of events. The agents returned about two weeks later in mid-December with a grand jury subpoena allowing them to seize the laptop and the external hard drive. The subpoena was signed by a federal prosecutor in the U.S. attorney’s office in Wilmington who handles criminal investigations such as fraud, and Mr. Isaac acknowledged receiving it.

The agents also gave him a receipt for what they took, according to a photograph of it published by Fox News. The receipt included an F.B.I. code, 272D, the bureau’s internal classification for money laundering investigations, and “BA” for its Baltimore field office. Officials separately confirmed that the F.B.I. seized the laptop and an external hard drive as part of an investigation, though they did not detail the inquiry or whether it involved money laundering or Hunter Biden. They also confirmed that the agent who signed the receipt works in Wilmington and is overseen by the Baltimore office.”

 

If there was anything truly damning on the hard drive, wouldn’t Fox or the Post or the Trump campaign have run with it ad nauseum? They all have had it for years.

[AU9377 4,908]

Hunter Biden has recently paid unpaid taxes, which was the primary focus of the investigation.  He can still be criminally charged with tax evasion, but being that they are now paid with penalties, he isn't likely to get serious punishment as a result.  The secondary issue is the existence of a FARA violation.  Should he be charged with that, the penalty will likely be a fine and possibly a year to five probation.  Manafort pleaded guilty to several FARA violations in addition to a laundry list of conspiracy charges or much worse crimes.  In another thread I posted an article detailing a former RNC fund raiser that had also pleaded guilty last year to a much more egregious list of violations.  No jail time was given in that case.

[AU9377 4,908]

2 hours ago, I_M4_AU said:

I think Bobulinski didn’t step forward until just before the election.  To me he is the smoking gun.  The problem with Giuliani is he didn’t leak it soon enough.  The Dems had time on their hands and control of the House.

The fact that Giuliani had a copy of the hard drive (illegally or not) is how this stuff works isn’t it?  The Steele Dossier as an example.

The problem with Giuliani is that he is now a defendant.

[I_M4_AU 7,759]

16 minutes ago, TexasTiger said:

If there was anything truly damning on the hard drive, wouldn’t Fox or the Post or the Trump campaign have run with it ad nauseum? They all have had it for years.

Yes they have had if for years at this point, but don’t forget the investigation was about Tax Fraud/Not paying taxes and Hunter has recently paid his nearly $1 million bill.  I’m not sure how FOX or the Post would have access to the investigation.  They do now since the Tax bill has been paid I would imagine.  I wouldn’t put too much stock in what the Trump campaign had to say about it and I am sure you don’t.

[I_M4_AU 7,759]

5 minutes ago, AU9377 said:

The problem with Giuliani is that he is now a defendant.

If the House flips to Republican this fall will Bobulinski be considered a defendant or a witness?  Regardless of what Giuliani is accused of, a witness to the misdeeds of the sitting President would be of paramount importance.  Would you agree?  I am not saying Joe did anything bad, but let’s find out.