Better Fit At Coordinator On Both Sides

[Rednilla]

Schmedding definitely fits what Harsin is trying to do better than Mason did. The feeling I get from talking to my friend is that Mason clashed with Harsin somewhat, in a too many cooks spoil the broth kind of way, meaning that Mason had his own vision of how the team should be run, rather than being satisfied with being back in the role of coordinator for someone else’s team. Schmedding is more focused on detail and making sure everyone is on the same page. He also seems to be more of a calming influence than Mason was.

Kiesau is much the same on offense, I believe, in that he’s willing to run Harsin’s vision rather than trying to make his own fit in. We were all underwhelmed with the familiarity of Bobo’s play calling last year, and I don’t think the full potential of Harsin’s system was employed. Kiesau seems to have a better idea of how Harsin’s offensive attack is supposed to go, which will hopefully translate into a fresher approach and more unpredictability for opposing defenses.

So even though we don’t necessarily have the same kind of star power in our top assistants as we had last year, I believe we’re going to have a much better coordinated team from top to bottom. We hired Harsin to lead the team; it’s important that he be given the reins completely instead of being constantly second guessed by his lieutenants.

[W.E.D]

i wasn't really happy about either hire last year outside their abilities to help recruiting.  Neither ended up very good either outside of recruiting.

Hopefully Rd 2 of "his guys" goes smoothly

[McLoofus]

No offense to the OP,  but this is stuff we're going to hear right now. It just is. Doesn't mean it's not true, doesn't mean it is.

That said, I've opined since Bobo was fired that the most sensible thing was to move Kiesau to OC for exactly the reasons stated above. Also, there's a track record there. (I also opined that a critical component of that plan working would be making a rock star hire with the WR coach. Harsin told me to hold his beer.)

I don't have the same optimism for Schmed, because Harsin isn't a defensive guy. There are many successful examples of a coordinator being essentially a proxy for the head coach, and that's what we have in Kiesau. On the flip side, the thing that Gus got right was hiring experienced DCs and staying out of their way. He's an offense guy, so the defensive bosses were operating with a lot of autonomy. Schmed just doesn't have the resume or cache for me to assume that he can recruit and run a high level SEC defense. 

It does make sense, though, about the lack of ego* relative to the former SEC head coach who preceded him. That could certainly balance the scales in terms of us at least not taking a huge step backward. A lot to be said for everyone being on the same page. Especially since Etheridge appears to be a rock star recruiter and now we're hearing about serious work being done by Brumbaugh, Roc and the rest. 

*I'm not calling Mason egotistical, at least relative to other coaches. Only that he was a former SEC head coach watching this dude from Boise operate on a steep learning curve, in many ways. I can imagine it was hard for him to keep his opinions to himself. 

Edited April 27 by McLoofus

[Bro Johnny Mac]

If the coordinators and the HC have the same vision or way of doing things or whatever you want to call it, that’s an improvement over last year already.
Doesn’t guarantee success but it does us a better chance of success.

[au302]

Mason is a good man and coach that clearly knows football, but looking back I don't think he was a good fit here at all. His philosophy runs opposite of Auburn defenses historically. I understand there are times when you gotta play it conservatively, but I can't get on board with his overall philosophy. This isn't Vandy or Stanford.

Bobo is a guy you want Sunday-Friday because he can develop QB's and game plan really well. Just don't want him after the first two scripted drives on Saturdays because he's awful after that. Too focused on being balanced at the cost of doing what the defense gives you. His system is also more different from Harsin's than we realize. Worse fit than thought, which falls on Harsin for hiring him

From what I've gathered, Schmed is super aggressive. May get us burned more, but also may create more turnovers and momentum. We shall see. Least heralded DC we've had in a while, but possibly best up and comer. Cut his chops at EWU, a great program. Kiesau is entering a losing battle. The offense has been bad for four years now. His task is to get us from bad to average. Do that and he's done a helluva job.

[DAG]

Mason was a great hire IMO, despite what people think. Not saying the OP says otherwise . I would also say that he is right that our current coordinators fit what he wants to do. It is bizarre that we needed a season of up and downs to figure you should always do something like this but I digress.

[Rednilla]

1 minute ago, DAG said:

Mason was a great hire IMO, despite what people think. Not saying the OP says otherwise . I would also say that he is right that our current coordinators fit what he wants to do. It is bizarre that we needed a season of up and downs to figure you should always do something like this but I digress.

While I have no inside information on the topic, I'm of the opinion that Harsin was "encouraged" (i.e. forced) to hire both of the guys he did as coordinators because TPTB wanted to ensure that he had the support of SEC guys with head coaching experience. Mason was a home run hire, that much is true, and he's a great coach to boot, but I don't think he meshed so well with Harsin. @McLoofus made a great point about an offensive-minded head coach needing to give his defensive coordinator some amount of autonomy, I'm just cautiously optimistic that Schmedding's attention to detail is going to make a difference for us defensively this season.

[DAG]

1 minute ago, Rednilla said:

While I have no inside information on the topic, I'm of the opinion that Harsin was "encouraged" (i.e. forced) to hire both of the guys he did as coordinators because TPTB wanted to ensure that he had the support of SEC guys with head coaching experience. Mason was a home run hire, that much is true, and he's a great coach to boot, but I don't think he meshed so well with Harsin. @McLoofus made a great point about an offensive-minded head coach needing to give his defensive coordinator some amount of autonomy, I'm just cautiously optimistic that Schmedding's attention to detail is going to make a difference for us defensively this season.

Yeah I’ve alluded to that as well with major pushback. I do think he was encouraged, not forced to do so. I would think CBH fail into the trap of needed guys with SEC experience as well. Live and learn .

[Sizzle]

Mason was a great hire IMO. The Mississippi state game was a disaster but other than that his defense was what kept us from being embarrassed repeatedly. That defense only gave up  10 non OT points to a high powered Bama offense.
 

I was never a fan of the Bobo hire. Hated that from the beginning, but if Harsin wants “his guys” then I can’t be mad at that

[abw0004]

I liked Mason as well.  He is the reason our recruiting class for 2022 was in the top 30.  I am a little afraid of what it would have been without him.

[au302]

53 minutes ago, Rednilla said:

While I have no inside information on the topic, I'm of the opinion that Harsin was "encouraged" (i.e. forced) to hire both of the guys he did as coordinators because TPTB wanted to ensure that he had the support of SEC guys with head coaching experience. Mason was a home run hire, that much is true, and he's a great coach to boot, but I don't think he meshed so well with Harsin. @McLoofus made a great point about an offensive-minded head coach needing to give his defensive coordinator some amount of autonomy, I'm just cautiously optimistic that Schmedding's attention to detail is going to make a difference for us defensively this season.

We'll never know, but I'd also like to know how much influence Keys and Schmed had last year which caused dysfunction, butting heads, and miscommunications. For example there were rumors that Harsin and Kiesau took over the passing game from Bobo after Georgia State and that both had play sheets and were much more active on the headsets, whereas Harsin did not have a play sheet the first three weeks.

Also remember seeing a video of "all about the ball" inside access program where at half time at Arkansas Schmedding was drawing stuff up on a white board while Mason was standing off to the side with his arms crossed. Probably nothing, but made me think. Since those are his boys and Mason and Bobo have different philosophies, I could totally see some dysfunction which confused everyone. That's not even getting into the rumors of Harsin making Schmedding de facto DC for the IB by having him do all the scouting and game planning in advance and letting Mason still call it

Edited April 27 by au302

[Rednilla]

14 minutes ago, au302 said:

We'll never know, but I'd also like to know how much influence Keys and Schmed had last year which caused dysfunction, butting heads, and miscommunications. For example there were rumors that Harsin and Kiesau took over the passing game from Bobo after Georgia State and that both had play sheets and were much more active on the headsets, whereas Harsin did not have a play sheet the first three weeks.

Also remember seeing a video of "all about the ball" inside access program where at half time at Arkansas Schmedding was drawing stuff up on a white board while Mason was standing off to the side with his arms crossed. Probably nothing, but made me think. Since those are his boys and Mason and Bobo have different philosophies, I could totally see some dysfunction which confused everyone. That's not even getting into the rumors of Harsin making Schmedding de facto DC for the IB by having him do all the scouting and game planning in advance and letting Mason still call it

That's certainly a fair line of thought, and I don't have the faintest clue about it...but to be completely honest, it wouldn't surprise me too much if it were true.

That said, even if it IS true, it's better to have them as the ones in charge of the two sides of the ball in name as well as practice to avoid the power struggle. Hopefully, it'll work out for the best for us.

[AuCivilEng1]

3 hours ago, McLoofus said:

I don't have the same optimism for Schmed, because Harsin isn't a defensive guy. There are many successful examples of a coordinator being essentially a proxy for the head coach, and that's what we have in Kiesau. On the flip side, the thing that Gus got right was hiring experienced DCs and staying out of their way. He's an offense guy, so the defensive bosses were operating with a lot of autonomy. Schmed just doesn't have the resume or cache for me to assume that he can recruit and run a high level SEC defense. 

It does make sense, though, about the lack of ego* relative to the former SEC head coach who preceded him. That could certainly balance the scales in terms of us at least not taking a huge step backward. A lot to be said for everyone being on the same page. Especially since Etheridge appears to be a rock star recruiter and now we're hearing about serious work being done by Brumbaugh, Roc and the rest. 

 

I think that Schmed would have been an ok hire if the staff around him was filled with guys you could be excited about. But Ethridge is the only coach on that side of the ball I’m personally excited about. Maybe the other guys will step up and over perform, but I def think our defensive staff is a step down in recruiting and raw coaching ability than the guys before them.

Edited April 27 by AuCivilEng1

[au302]

9 minutes ago, AuCivilEng1 said:

I think that Schmed would have been an ok hire if the staff around him was filled with guys you could be excited about. But Ethridge is the only coach on that side of the ball I’m personally excited about. Maybe the other guys will step up and over perform, but I def think our defensive staff is a step down in recruiting and raw coaching ability than the guys before them.

Don't underestimate CRob. He regularly took Twill to the woodshed on the trail. Different positions, but think he is a recruiting upgrade over Mason. Watts may be a better technical coach, but Roc may be a better 'crooter. Vice versa for Brumbaugh. Maybe comparable as a technical coach as Eason, but worse 'crooter. We'll see in December. Both are busting a** on the trail, but gotta close because we need DL and EDGE badly

[JerryAU]

4 hours ago, W.E.D said:

i wasn't really happy about either hire last year outside their abilities to help recruiting.  Neither ended up very good either outside of recruiting.

Hopefully Rd 2 of "his guys" goes smoothly

I was very happy with the Mason hire and equally as unhappy about Bobo.  

BOTH hires were praised and folks were please to have "SEC experience" on the staff for recruiting purposes.  Men who were familiar with the lay of the land and the cut-throat SEC level recruiting that would be needed to improve the roster.  Mason did a great job holding CBH's first class together, and I believe he'd have done well coaching if he were left alone to do his job as DC.  But, it's all Harsin now and he's fighting for life, he feels better with his men taking us into battle then we charge on and hope for a significant improvement over last year. 

[Win4AU]

This year will truly be Harsin's team in all aspects.  The players that didn't want to be here are gone.  The coordinators that he did or didn't get along with are gone and the Boise Boyz are in charge.  Whether you believe all the smoke that beat writers are blowing about this team having great chemistry and recruiting taking off we'll all see come fall when the real rubber hits the road.  I was cautiously optimistic last year about Bobo due to his history of top notch QBs at UGA and hopefully transforming Bo into something great.  Mason I was higher on due to his track record of good defenses.  I am excited to see Harsin's true offense and more of a mixed man/zone defense that Schmed supposedly runs.  

[oracle79]

I will be extremely interested in how Oklahoma State's defense performs next year compared to this past year.

[woodford]

I’m optimistic about our new coordinators. Old ones sucked. 
 

I’m super pessimistic about our talent level which might not help these new coordinators. Making a bowl would be massive with this OL. 

[JerryAU]

18 minutes ago, woodford said:

I’m optimistic about our new coordinators. Old ones sucked. 
 

I’m super pessimistic about our talent level which might not help these new coordinators. Making a bowl would be massive with this OL. 

We have a lot of super seniors now, and they've made a bowl every year.  We also have the toughest schedule again to navigate and injuries and wear and tear take a toll.  I believe the OL will be ok, my worry is QB & WR corps.  

[McLoofus]

8 minutes ago, JerryAU said:

We have a lot of super seniors now, and they've made a bowl every year.  We also have the toughest schedule again to navigate and injuries and wear and tear take a toll.  I believe the OL will be ok, my worry is QB & WR corps.  

Thank you for stopping the insanity. Especially by pointing out the bowl streak. 

Like you said, the OL will be ok. They won't be good. But they'll be ok. And who knows, maybe one of these QBs will make them look better instead of worse by actually getting rid of the ball and maybe even doing so accurately from time to time. 

[Tigerpro2a]

On 4/27/2022 at 11:05 AM, W.E.D said:

i wasn't really happy about either hire last year outside their abilities to help recruiting.  Neither ended up very good either outside of recruiting.

Hopefully Rd 2 of "his guys" goes smoothly

I disagree. I think both were good hires and I believe Mason was a slam dunk hire. I was also highly skeptical of Bobo's play-calling history and wasn't satisfied with it, but for what we needed I think he was a good hire for a new HC. He was a proven QB developer and did a lot to help Bo in just one season. He was also a proven recruiter from the area. It didn't pan out. Is what it is. 

I think Keisau was the obvious choice after the offseason turmoil. It is far to early to tell if we will be better off or worse. One thing for sure, Harsin is going to ride or die with his men.

[Didba]

Mason was a great hire. Mason was also not the best fit in retrospect.  Both can be true. It was very cool to have DM as DC and imo we will feel the effects of his transition from a 4-2-5 to a 3-4 for years to come.  His one year here reminds me of Muschamp's but even better because DM did everything Muschamp did without being a complete jackass on the sidelines.

[McLoofus]

11 hours ago, Didba said:

Mason was a great hire. Mason was also not the best fit in retrospect.  Both can be true.

Bingo.

Quote

His one year here reminds me of Muschamp's but even better because DM did everything Muschamp did without being a complete jackass on the sidelines.

Can't ride with you on that. Muschamp inherited one of the worst defenses in the league and handed it off to Steele in great shape. Muschamp actually changed the culture behind the scenes- in the locker room, sure, but in the boardroom as well. And his players loved that stuff on the sidelines, except maybe the back to back 15 yarders in that one game. But even then they knew he was fighting for them. He was far from perfect but Muschamp's 2015 shift was one for the ages.

Mason inherited a pretty good defense with a lot of talent and left us a pretty good defense with a lot of talent. The scheme change was a big lift and he did some great recruiting work for us, but it wasn't nearly the transformative season that Muschamp gave us. 

Edited April 29 by McLoofus

[Win4AU]

The Muschamp blowup in the Iron Bowl is an all timer.  

[cole256]

There's literally no way to know if any of that is true.

Reality is most complaining comes from people who just say if you don't blitz all the time you aren't aggressive when so much more goes into it.

Also for whatever reason everybody forgot it war our first year in a 3-4 and you had quite a few guys playing roles they haven't ever played. 

As usual the defense got better the more experience they got. I have no doubt if Mason had stayed and a few key guys who left had stayed as well we would have had one of the best defenses in the SEC this year. 

It's just the way it is though this year the people you like the coordinators will give credit for good stuff and place blame elsewhere for bad stuff and vice versa

I've NEVER seen a successful organization filled with yes men. Most times, especially in a highly competitive setting you want to surround yourself with people that question and challenge. Getting rid of alphas and replacing with betas is literally a beta move imo