Why such a lack of compassion on student debt?

[Cardin Drake 1,809]

No problem, let them borrow all they need and then some.  Don't be a sucker when the government is going to take care of it all down the road.

Obviously, I don't mean that, but that's how folks will think as soon as we start forgiving past debt. And it's hard to blame them.    SMH.

[autigeremt 6,569]

Past generations....I'm sorry you had to spend so much to advance your careers and lives. You don't get a break. 

Current and future generations....no worries. Education is free and all of us who work in it will start to see how unimportant we truly are. (some sarcasm there...)

 

The ACA helped create some of this mess (not all, but deserves a shot). Wonderful idea allowing government to control interest rates and loans. 

[icanthearyou 4,462]

3 hours ago, autigeremt said:

Past generations....I'm sorry you had to spend so much to advance your careers and lives. You don't get a break. 

Current and future generations....no worries. Education is free and all of us who work in it will start to see how unimportant we truly are. (some sarcasm there...)

 

The ACA helped create some of this mess (not all, but deserves a shot). Wonderful idea allowing government to control interest rates and loans. 

Past generations received more public education dollars than today.  Education is an investment we can't afford not to make.

[GoAU 1,599]

2 hours ago, icanthearyou said:

Past generations received more public education dollars than today.  Education is an investment we can't afford not to make.

Agree with you about investing in education, but not in political indoctrination.   Too many teachers feel compelled to augment curriculum with their political views. 

[icanthearyou 4,462]

19 minutes ago, GoAU said:

Agree with you about investing in education, but not in political indoctrination.   Too many teachers feel compelled to augment curriculum with their political views. 

Who would you trust to monitor and regulate their speech?

[GoAU 1,599]

That’s a tough one - as I generally don’t like “monitoring & regulating” - sounds so Orwellian.  I would be more mailable to general teaching guidelines telling teachers to stick the the curriculum as currently laid out, and stay away from matters of politics, and the such.  I do agree with the law commonly mislabels as the “Don’t say Gay” bill.  I don’t see why any teacher in grades K-3 should discuss sexuality at all. That law doesn’t even have the word “gay” in it at all.   Leave ALL sexuality off the table at that age.  
 

As to the original guidelines, teachers failing to follow the guidelines would face disciplinary action, just like any other person that doesn’t follow rules at work.  Tenured or not. 

[aubiefifty 16,718]

9 hours ago, GoAU said:

That’s a tough one - as I generally don’t like “monitoring & regulating” - sounds so Orwellian.  I would be more mailable to general teaching guidelines telling teachers to stick the the curriculum as currently laid out, and stay away from matters of politics, and the such.  I do agree with the law commonly mislabels as the “Don’t say Gay” bill.  I don’t see why any teacher in grades K-3 should discuss sexuality at all. That law doesn’t even have the word “gay” in it at all.   Leave ALL sexuality off the table at that age.  
 

As to the original guidelines, teachers failing to follow the guidelines would face disciplinary action, just like any other person that doesn’t follow rules at work.  Tenured or not. 

who is trying to teach kids about sex in third grade? i certainly would not care for that if it was my child unless they were trying to teach kids enough to be aware of sexual predators? that would be a tough one because i have been told in the past about students having sex in grade school and jr high. i have a friend that teached in south alabama in handley and he said it was rampant. it was so bad he told me he could not wait until he could retire and get away from all the crap. he said it was heartbreaking.

[icanthearyou 4,462]

12 hours ago, GoAU said:

That’s a tough one - as I generally don’t like “monitoring & regulating” - sounds so Orwellian.  I would be more mailable to general teaching guidelines telling teachers to stick the the curriculum as currently laid out, and stay away from matters of politics, and the such.  I do agree with the law commonly mislabels as the “Don’t say Gay” bill.  I don’t see why any teacher in grades K-3 should discuss sexuality at all. That law doesn’t even have the word “gay” in it at all.   Leave ALL sexuality off the table at that age.  
 

As to the original guidelines, teachers failing to follow the guidelines would face disciplinary action, just like any other person that doesn’t follow rules at work.  Tenured or not. 

Do you believe there is an active "gay" agenda wrapped within the "liberal" agenda?  Are they part of the great homosexual communist utopia planned by the Demoncrats?

If so, I can see why you want to ban free speech.  Well, sort of.

[GoAU 1,599]

2 hours ago, aubiefifty said:

who is trying to teach kids about sex in third grade? i certainly would not care for that if it was my child unless they were trying to teach kids enough to be aware of sexual predators? that would be a tough one because i have been told in the past about students having sex in grade school and jr high. i have a friend that teached in south alabama in handley and he said it was rampant. it was so bad he told me he could not wait until he could retire and get away from all the crap. he said it was heartbreaking.

You do realize that the whole uproar about the “Don’t say Gay” law in FL is literally over this exact issue, right?   Trying to get teachers to just leave conversations on sex, gender and sexuality out of K-3.   Seems common sense to me too,  but the false narrative grabbed hold and twisted the issues significantly. 

[GoAU 1,599]

Just now, icanthearyou said:

Do you believe there is an active "gay" agenda wrapped within the "liberal" agenda?  Are they part of the great homosexual communist utopia planned by the Demoncrats?

If so, I can see why you want to ban free speech.  Well, sort of.

Nope, I have absolutely no issues with homosexual people at all.  I do, however, have problems discussing sexuality (in any form) in schools, in particular grades K-6

what two consenting adults do in their own homes is of no concern to me. 

[icanthearyou 4,462]

1 minute ago, GoAU said:

You do realize that the whole uproar about the “Don’t say Gay” law in FL is literally over this exact issue, right?   Trying to get teachers to just leave conversations on sex, gender and sexuality out of K-3.   Seems common sense to me too,  but the false narrative grabbed hold and twisted the issues significantly. 

Certainly, Florida is known for it's homosexual kindergarten instruction/indoctrination. By third grade, Florida has an unusually high number of cross dressing school children.  The children are kind, happy, gay but, the parents are demonstratively angry at every school board meeting.  It is also well known that Disney funds the homosexual/communist education agenda.  Without great Americans like Ron Desantis, the gay/communist/atheist would have already taken over this country.

[homersapien 11,354]

4 hours ago, GoAU said:

You do realize that the whole uproar about the “Don’t say Gay” law in FL is literally over this exact issue, right?   Trying to get teachers to just leave conversations on sex, gender and sexuality out of K-3.   Seems common sense to me too,  but the false narrative grabbed hold and twisted the issues significantly. 

Well, I'd say the "whole uproar" is way more likely created by the "Don't say Gay" law itself, not the prevalence of K-3 teachers "teaching sex".  In fact, I've never seen any actual data on that. Perhaps it happened somewhere, at some time, to some extent, but if so, I haven't seen the reporting of it - maybe QAnon?

But you can be damn well sure that DeSantis instantly recognized the political gold such a law would generate. 

It's classical demagoguery.

[icanthearyou 4,462]

16 hours ago, GoAU said:

That’s a tough one - as I generally don’t like “monitoring & regulating” - sounds so Orwellian.  I would be more mailable to general teaching guidelines telling teachers to stick the the curriculum as currently laid out, and stay away from matters of politics, and the such.  I do agree with the law commonly mislabels as the “Don’t say Gay” bill.  I don’t see why any teacher in grades K-3 should discuss sexuality at all. That law doesn’t even have the word “gay” in it at all.   Leave ALL sexuality off the table at that age.  
 

As to the original guidelines, teachers failing to follow the guidelines would face disciplinary action, just like any other person that doesn’t follow rules at work.  Tenured or not. 

Yet that is exactly what you are calling for.  Where are these teachers who are indoctrinating students with partisan political views?  What are the societal symptoms?

I think we need to learn to grasp the differences between being educated and, being trained.  We also need to consider that educated people are always a threat to the powerful and the status quo.  We need to understand why that is so.  I also believe we should not wish to train our children to be just like us.  We should educate them and, respect them enough to allow them to think freely.

Like it or not, your children will grow up in a world that is more accepting.  Your "Don't Say Gay" bill will not stop that.  Being gay has nothing to with being good, honorable, productive, responsible.  Everyday, more people know and love gay people.  You are fighting for nothing.  If you truly want to be a force for good, start thinking about the real issues in society, real human concerns.

All Desantis has done is to violate the first amendment and, punish a company that publicly disagreed with him.  That is the very definition of tyranny.  It reveals the Republican "causes" aren't about liberty but, perpetuating the status quo through the myth of the "moral" "majority". 

[AU9377 4,914]

On 5/6/2022 at 11:56 AM, Cardin Drake said:

Bingo.

There are multiple problems with just forgiving student debt, but the biggest one is that it does nothing to address the underlying problem.  Most of my friends won't bring up the subject to me, because they know I am liable to go on a 15 minute rant about what we are doing to young people with student loan debt. Some easy common sense reforms are political non-starters to the left however, and will never happen.

1) Limit the amount you can borrow to the cost of a state school education, OR have the private institution guarantee the loan repayment for the portion of the tuition in excess of the public school tuition. If you think your gender studies degree will enable your graduates to repay 300K in debt, then fine go for it, YOU guarantee the loan.

2) Limit loan increases for public school tuition to the rate of inflation OR the public school can guarantee the excess.

3) Monitor loan repayment and for those institutions granting degrees where their graduates are way below average in repaying, make the institution guarantee part of the loan.

Second, there are things we can and should do short of out right forgiveness:

1) Favorable interest rates to borrowers who are current on their loans, even if they have fallen behind in the past.

2) Quit letting 3rd parties charge huge collection penalties to those who fall behind.  Nothing is more sickening than a kid who probably shouldn't have been going to college in the first place racking up 30K in debt before he drops out, then winding up with 75K in debt and climbing because he can't repay it on his bartender's salary.

3) Allow limited use of bankruptcy to discharge student loan debt. This right never should have been taken away in the first place.

Finally, there are the legal and moral issues.  Where did the President get the right to alter existing contracts? Is credit card debt next? Why not just forgive all home loans? That would be popular too.  What does this say to parents who scrapped and saved to put their kids through college?  Are they just suckers?  Are they getting a refund so they can buy a new car like John down the street who bought himself a new car and let his kids borrow money to go college.

FIX THE DAMN PROBLEMS, CONGRESS. Do your freaking job.

 

That makes a lot of sense.  It is difficult for me to get some of my friends to understand that it isn't just the students being irresponsible with these loans.  Major stakeholders in this discussion are public and private schools.  They have used the loans to jack up tuition and, in states like AL, they have used the loan program as a justification for charging exorbitant amounts of money for out of state students without consideration being given to legacy students etc. simply because they know that the loans are there as a source of payments.

I would point out that the reason that the Fed Govt has the ability to do this is that they are the guarantor on all of these loans.  As such, they are a party to the contracts.

 

[GoAU 1,599]

6 hours ago, homersapien said:

Well, I'd say the "whole uproar" is way more likely created by the "Don't say Gay" law itself, not the prevalence of K-3 teachers "teaching sex".  In fact, I've never seen any actual data on that. Perhaps it happened somewhere, at some time, to some extent, but if so, I haven't seen the reporting of it - maybe QAnon?

But you can be damn well sure that DeSantis instantly recognized the political gold such a law would generate. 

It's classical demagoguery.

If it’s not happening, then why the uproar?  Teachers do not have, nor should they have, the ability to teach whatever they want.  They are there to teach a curriculum.   Leave the personal beliefs at the door.  
 

what exact language of the law do you disagree with?  Have you actually read it?   The word “gay” doe not even appear in the law. 

Edited May 11, 2022 by GoAU

[GoAU 1,599]

6 hours ago, icanthearyou said:

Yet that is exactly what you are calling for.  Where are these teachers who are indoctrinating students with partisan political views?  What are the societal symptoms?

I think we need to learn to grasp the differences between being educated and, being trained.  We also need to consider that educated people are always a threat to the powerful and the status quo.  We need to understand why that is so.  I also believe we should not wish to train our children to be just like us.  We should educate them and, respect them enough to allow them to think freely.

Like it or not, your children will grow up in a world that is more accepting.  Your "Don't Say Gay" bill will not stop that.  Being gay has nothing to with being good, honorable, productive, responsible.  Everyday, more people know and love gay people.  You are fighting for nothing.  If you truly want to be a force for good, start thinking about the real issues in society, real human concerns.

All Desantis has done is to violate the first amendment and, punish a company that publicly disagreed with him.  That is the very definition of tyranny.  It reveals the Republican "causes" aren't about liberty but, perpetuating the status quo through the myth of the "moral" "majority". 

What’s ironic here is that I agree with you on a lot of what you posted here, we just have inverse opinions on educated and trained.  I absolutely teach my kids to analyze, listen to opposing viewpoints and make educated opinions.  Unlike you, they also learn to listen to both sides and respect the opposing views.  
 

I like it just fine that the world is an accepting place, and feel all people are worthy of respectful treatment.  What’s funny is the ridiculous stereotype the leftists have on this board that I can be conservative and have absolutely no problem with homosexuality.   Truly, 100% could care less.  My support for the FL law is in that it leaves ALL SEXUALITY out of the classrooms for young children.  It’s a shame that something like this should even require a law - but it does as evidenced by countless examples of teacher conduct.  
 

So how about you quit your stereotyping?   
 

thanks. 

[DKW 86 7,411]

21 hours ago, icanthearyou said:

Certainly, Florida is known for it's homosexual kindergarten instruction/indoctrination. By third grade, Florida has an unusually high number of cross dressing school children.  The children are kind, happy, gay but, the parents are demonstratively angry at every school board meeting.  It is also well known that Disney funds the homosexual/communist education agenda.  Without great Americans like Ron Desantis, the gay/communist/atheist would have already taken over this country.

I would laugh, but I fear a lot of FL parents actually believe every word of that. 

[DKW 86 7,411]

16 hours ago, icanthearyou said:

Yet that is exactly what you are calling for.  Where are these teachers who are indoctrinating students with partisan political views?  What are the societal symptoms?

I think we need to learn to grasp the differences between being educated and, being trained.  We also need to consider that educated people are always a threat to the powerful and the status quo.  We need to understand why that is so.  I also believe we should not wish to train our children to be just like us.  We should educate them and, respect them enough to allow them to think freely.

Like it or not, your children will grow up in a world that is more accepting.  Your "Don't Say Gay" bill will not stop that.  Being gay has nothing to with being good, honorable, productive, responsible.  Everyday, more people know and love gay people.  You are fighting for nothing.  If you truly want to be a force for good, start thinking about the real issues in society, real human concerns.

All Desantis has done is to violate the first amendment and, punish a company that publicly disagreed with him.  That is the very definition of tyranny.  It reveals the Republican "causes" aren't about liberty but, perpetuating the status quo through the myth of the "moral" "majority". 

Ichy, you are hitting it out of the park today. I want great PUBLIC school education, M4A, Raised Minimum Wage, Clean Air and Water, Plastics out of the Oceans, Legal Weed, more. But we keep getting bogged down in poor public education in America and politics that can’t get out in the weeds for anything. DSG was an Over Reaction by the Right and Hyperbole by the Left. 

[DKW 86 7,411]

10 hours ago, GoAU said:

What’s ironic here is that I agree with you on a lot of what you posted here, we just have inverse opinions on educated and trained.  I absolutely teach my kids to analyze, listen to opposing viewpoints and make educated opinions.  Unlike you, they also learn to listen to both sides and respect the opposing views.  
 

I like it just fine that the world is an accepting place, and feel all people are worthy of respectful treatment.  What’s funny is the ridiculous stereotype the leftists have on this board that I can be conservative and have absolutely no problem with homosexuality.   Truly, 100% could care less.  My support for the FL law is in that it leaves ALL SEXUALITY out of the classrooms for young children.  It’s a shame that something like this should even require a law - but it does as evidenced by countless examples of teacher conduct.  
 

So how about you quit your stereotyping?   
 

thanks. 

And then you hit the nail on the head. Most on their board are trained first level thinkers. 
“All Liberals must think alike and Support X!”

”All Cons must think alike and Support Y”

God help you if you don’t fit the mold. I am profoundly Pro-Life. I have been active in raising 4 kids that weren’t mine. But when I say I support M4A, Raised Minimum Wages, Legalized Weed I am immediately called a liar because I am stereotyped as Cons because I am Pro-Life. 

[icanthearyou 4,462]

11 hours ago, GoAU said:

If it’s not happening, then why the uproar?  Teachers do not have, nor should they have, the ability to teach whatever they want.  They are there to teach a curriculum.   Leave the personal beliefs at the door.  
 

what exact language of the law do you disagree with?  Have you actually read it?   The word “gay” doe not even appear in the law. 

So you do want to monitor and regulate speech in schools?  Do you really believe there are teachers, K-3rd grade, indoctrinating students in Florida?  Do you have any evidence?

 

[icanthearyou 4,462]

11 hours ago, GoAU said:

What’s ironic here is that I agree with you on a lot of what you posted here, we just have inverse opinions on educated and trained.  I absolutely teach my kids to analyze, listen to opposing viewpoints and make educated opinions.  Unlike you, they also learn to listen to both sides and respect the opposing views.  
 

I like it just fine that the world is an accepting place, and feel all people are worthy of respectful treatment.  What’s funny is the ridiculous stereotype the leftists have on this board that I can be conservative and have absolutely no problem with homosexuality.   Truly, 100% could care less.  My support for the FL law is in that it leaves ALL SEXUALITY out of the classrooms for young children.  It’s a shame that something like this should even require a law - but it does as evidenced by countless examples of teacher conduct.  
 

So how about you quit your stereotyping?   
 

thanks. 

I am very sorry you feel stereotyped.  However, I cannot understand what it is you support, or are against.  The only basis of your feelings seems to be the fact that it came from Republicans.

In my opinion, this legislation does nothing, addresses nothing other than fighting that mythical "liberal agenda".  How can it be true as Florida turns into a red state?  It is emotional, not practical.  It stirs irrational fear.  It promotes division.  It has already convinced you to stand against the first amendment.

This is the tired political garbage of the past.  This is nothing more than an attempt to divide society against itself.  This is simply the viewpoint of inclusion versus the viewpoint of exclusion.  How many times does it take to learn a lesson? 

[homersapien 11,354]

17 hours ago, GoAU said:

If it’s not happening, then why the uproar?  Teachers do not have, nor should they have, the ability to teach whatever they want.  They are there to teach a curriculum.   Leave the personal beliefs at the door.  
 

what exact language of the law do you disagree with?  Have you actually read it?   The word “gay” doe not even appear in the law. 

Simple. Because when Republicans keep pushing/hyping it as a huuuuuuge problem, their MAGA followers tend to assume it's real.

Yet, polling statistics show that K-12 parents are largely satisfied with their childs education. https://news.gallup.com/poll/354083/parents-remain-largely-satisfied-child-education.aspx

Republicans are now targeting our teachers for crissakes.   (Well, not the teachers who teach your kids, but you know, all those Democratic, "woke" teachers. 

(And Teachers have never had "the ability to teach what they want". )

The modus operandi of Republicans has always been to find enemies to demonize.  They've been doing this for decades (see Nixon's "Southern Strategy").   That strategy is now the basis of the so called "culture wars" .

They spend all of their time identifying and characterizing enemies of the country to play off of. (Just like Putin and other authoritarians btw). 

Actual governing is a hind thought and it typically consists of channeling more tax benefits to the wealthy.

Don't fall for it.

Edited May 11, 2022 by homersapien

[GoAU 1,599]

12 hours ago, icanthearyou said:

So you do want to monitor and regulate speech in schools?  Do you really believe there are teachers, K-3rd grade, indoctrinating students in Florida?  Do you have any evidence?

 

No, and I will repeat that in case I was anything less than clear enough for you.   I want to ensure inappropriate material is kept out of the classroom.   That guidance can be enforced if teachers are found violating it.  Unlike big government leftists, I do not believe everyone needs to be "monitored" to ensure compliance.  Your on the honor system, and if you screw it up, you face the consequences.  It's not really that hard.  

 

Evidence - they post it themselves.  Check out the Libs of TikTok, where they do nothing more than reshare what these "teachers" post.

 

[GoAU 1,599]

12 hours ago, icanthearyou said:

I am very sorry you feel stereotyped.  However, I cannot understand what it is you support, or are against.  The only basis of your feelings seems to be the fact that it came from Republicans.

In my opinion, this legislation does nothing, addresses nothing other than fighting that mythical "liberal agenda".  How can it be true as Florida turns into a red state?  It is emotional, not practical.  It stirs irrational fear.  It promotes division.  It has already convinced you to stand against the first amendment.

This is the tired political garbage of the past.  This is nothing more than an attempt to divide society against itself.  This is simply the viewpoint of inclusion versus the viewpoint of exclusion.  How many times does it take to learn a lesson? 

In a nutshell, I support parents rights to educate their children on topics like this.  I do not believe K-3 classrooms should have any discussions about sexuality - in any context.  It's just not appropriate.  I certainly wouldn't tolerate a teacher "teaching" kids that homosexuality is wrong, and more than I want a teacher discussing gender identity with young children.

Just because I am conservative, doesn't mean I am racist or homophobic - neither is further from the truth.  Although that label is applied to conservatives at will, the vast majority of conservatives I know are not racist or homophobic either. 

[GoAU 1,599]

7 hours ago, homersapien said:

Simple. Because when Republicans keep pushing/hyping it as a huuuuuuge problem, their MAGA followers tend to assume it's real.

Yet, polling statistics show that K-12 parents are largely satisfied with their childs education. https://news.gallup.com/poll/354083/parents-remain-largely-satisfied-child-education.aspx

Republicans are now targeting our teachers for crissakes.   (Well, not the teachers who teach your kids, but you know, all those Democratic, "woke" teachers. 

(And Teachers have never had "the ability to teach what they want". )

The modus operandi of Republicans has always been to find enemies to demonize.  They've been doing this for decades (see Nixon's "Southern Strategy").   That strategy is now the basis of the so called "culture wars" .

They spend all of their time identifying and characterizing enemies of the country to play off of. (Just like Putin and other authoritarians btw). 

Actual governing is a hind thought and it typically consists of channeling more tax benefits to the wealthy.

Don't fall for it.

And you don't think the left / Democrats do exactly the same thing?  Both sides are very adept at demonizing the "other side" for their advantage.   That's where it is on us to make educated decisions.  A great example are the numerous people that are convinced overturning RvW is banning abortion.   Goodness knows I don't want to start that topic here, but that is NOT what it does.  I fully concede that in some cases it "could" (hypothetically) lead to it, but the left is drumming up all the same rhetoric about the right.   Thats why thee conversations can get so heated - heck, we all get dehumanized on the interwebs and see each other in pre-packaged stereotypes, when in reality we would all likely to be able to carry on a reasonable discussion over a beer at a tailgate for an AU game - as long as it wasn't too late in the day