19 Children and 2 Adults Killed In Texas Elementary School Mass Shooting.

[CoffeeTiger 5,101]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2022/05/24/school-shooting-uvalde-texas-updates/

Texas Gov. Greg Abbott said 14 students and a teacher were killed in a mass shooting at a school in the city of Uvalde on Tuesday.

Abbott said Salvador Ramos, an 18-year-old Uvalde resident, entered the school with a handgun and may have been carrying a rifle. Inside the school, a gunman “shot and killed — horrifically, incomprehensibly” more than a dozen children and a teacher, said Abbott (R). The gunman is also dead, and it is believed that officers responding to the scene killed him, Abbott said.

 

A 66-year-old woman and a 10-year-old girl were in critical condition after the shooting at Robb Elementary School, according to University Health.

 

---------------------------------------

 

While Reporting on the event Newsmax interviews Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton on the shooting and what solutions for this there may be:

His solution? Have one point of entry in schools like a max security prison, and bring in more guns to arm teachers and administrators to shoot the shooters before the shooters shoot everyone else. 

 

Edited May 25, 2022 by CoffeeTiger
Updated title to reflect the new victim count.

[tgrogan21 6,198]

Senator Murphy knows all too well the horrors of an elementary school shooting. Most people on the left are the same, we don't want to take all of your guns and we don't want to abolish the 2nd amendment. We just want SOMETHING done. Anything. I'm heartbroken over this. I'm so tired of seeing it every single week and then nothing gets done, then we have another shooting and we get the "thoughts and prayers" but nothing else.

Edit: Adding in the video:

 

Edited May 24, 2022 by tgrogan21

[AUDub 11,147]

On the surface this looks like another Adam Lanza situation. 

[AUDynasty 585]

It doesn’t have to be this way. It can’t be this way any more. These poor children and parents. These kids must be so excited for summer. This is heartbreaking. Gun control now. 

[tgrogan21 6,198]

Unfortunately we need a title update. I hope that that number stops right there. I haven't been able to calm down all day.

[GoAU 1,600]

Heartbreaking.   Mental health needs to be addressed.  Banning guns is an expedient "solution" to say we are "doing something" but stripping Constitutional rights from an entire nation is not the solution.

[icanthearyou 4,462]

11 minutes ago, GoAU said:

Heartbreaking.   Mental health needs to be addressed.  Banning guns is an expedient "solution" to say we are "doing something" but stripping Constitutional rights from an entire nation is not the solution.

And,,,,,,,,  a vote for utter inhumanity.

This has nothing, nothing to do with preserving the second amendment  That nonsense is straight out of the gun lobby playbook, literally page 1.  It is the tobacco lobby telling us cigarettes are healthy, the fossil fuel industry telling us there is no global warming.

 

[CoffeeTiger 5,101]

3 hours ago, tgrogan21 said:

Unfortunately we need a title update. I hope that that number stops right there. I haven't been able to calm down all day.

 

As of now the AP is saying 19 kids and 2 adults so that's what i've updated the title to. It's Horrific.

[ShocksMyBrain 9,363]

5 hours ago, AUDub said:

On the surface this looks like another Adam Lanza situation. 

My wife told me about it and my immediate response was “How can someone do this to innocent childr—“. Then I remembered this s*** isn’t new. 

[Randman5000 4,226]

3 hours ago, icanthearyou said:

And,,,,,,,,  a vote for utter inhumanity.

This has nothing, nothing to do with preserving the second amendment  That nonsense is straight out of the gun lobby playbook, literally page 1.  It is the tobacco lobby telling us cigarettes are healthy, the fossil fuel industry telling us there is no global warming.

 

I was in Europe a few weeks ago and was talking with colleagues and their friends and all of their experiences in the US was gun related or crime. It was incredibly shocking and embarrassing. Its amazing to feel safe from guns when you aren't in your own country. Such a shame. 

 

Edited May 25, 2022 by Randman5000

[AU9377 4,925]

4 hours ago, GoAU said:

Heartbreaking.   Mental health needs to be addressed.  Banning guns is an expedient "solution" to say we are "doing something" but stripping Constitutional rights from an entire nation is not the solution.

An 18 year old kid should not be able to walk in a gun shop leave with 2 of these. 

There is absolutely no chance that the men who wrote the constitution and included the 2nd Amendment contemplated this country being the kind of place where this happens over and over and over and over and over and over again.

[GoAU 1,600]

Not true at all.  There were a whole variety of multi shot firearms available when the constitution was written - they didn’t limit those.  One could make the case that they would have been against many of the restrictions already in place, as their intent was the militia (people / citizens) having the ability to fight a war with their weapons, not deer hunting.  
 

The issue is not the tool these idiots use, it’s that they exist at all.  The root cause is the moral decay in our society.   
 

What the founders would have really cringed at is the method we deal with criminals in this country - we may as well be incentivizing them.   Cashless bail, early release, deciding to prosecute, etc.  Look at the number of laws, warnings / red flags that were missed along the way.  The issue is not “more laws”.  

[DKW 86 7,419]

1) We need far more robust gun control laws.  Background checks etc.

2) We need to DRAMAMTICALLY change the mental health laws in this nation. 
Seriously, we may have 5% of the population that are clinically insane at the moment.

3) Dont immediately fall for the "spoon made me fat logic" here. Last night there were 300M+ Guns in the US. Last nite 300M of them did absolutely nothing wrong. 

4) Limiting rights of those who are not doing any wrong MUST be counter-weighed with effective action that is actually taking action on those with guns that do mean to use them to kill and commit crimes. Harsher sentences for gun crimes, more undercover cops, very aggressive gun buybacks, anything! (I have zero confidence that any of this will actually happen.)

Dont do it the American Political Way: Write a bunch of laws for the already law-abiding citizens and then REFUSE to address the ones actually doing the crimes. 

Why are we not limiting these guns from getting into the hands of crazies?
Why are we not limiting these guns with larger magazines?
Why are we not testing these people before they can buy?
The main people killing folks with guns are gangbangers. They are using illegal guns and will always use illegal guns. last week in Chicago:
Chicago shootings: 33 shot, 5 fatally, in weekend violence, CPD says Did you hear about that on the news? Happens every weekend. No one gives a damn about it.

Try as you might, you wont find anyone in American Media criticizing this. NO ONE. It doesnt fit the narrative and they will never adapt to better ways of looking at it. 

 

Edited May 25, 2022 by DKW 86

[abw0004 10,110]

Well worth 10 minutes of your day:

 

[autigeremt 6,599]

14 hours ago, AUDynasty said:

It doesn’t have to be this way. It can’t be this way any more. These poor children and parents. These kids must be so excited for summer. This is heartbreaking. Gun control now. 

WE HAVE GUN CONTROL! Even in situations where the GOVERNMENT has RED FLAG laws in place the perp was STILL ALLOWED to purchase a firearm because GOVERNEMNT FAILED THE PEOPLE! THEY ARE INCOMPOTENT! 

 

I'm sorry but this isn't a gun problem. IT'S A PEOPLE PROBLEM. Pass all the laws you want. Come get my home protection....it won't change a thing. 

Edited May 25, 2022 by autigeremt

[autigeremt 6,599]

3 hours ago, GoAU said:

Not true at all.  There were a whole variety of multi shot firearms available when the constitution was written - they didn’t limit those.  One could make the case that they would have been against many of the restrictions already in place, as their intent was the militia (people / citizens) having the ability to fight a war with their weapons, not deer hunting.  
 

The issue is not the tool these idiots use, it’s that they exist at all.  The root cause is the moral decay in our society.   
 

What the founders would have really cringed at is the method we deal with criminals in this country - we may as well be incentivizing them.   Cashless bail, early release, deciding to prosecute, etc.  Look at the number of laws, warnings / red flags that were missed along the way.  The issue is not “more laws”.  

Good luck! Our society is too damn lazy to do anything but yell GUN CONTROL! 

[tomcat 569]

3 hours ago, GoAU said:

Not true at all.  There were a whole variety of multi shot firearms available when the constitution was written - they didn’t limit those.  One could make the case that they would have been against many of the restrictions already in place, as their intent was the militia (people / citizens) having the ability to fight a war with their weapons, not deer hunting.  
 

The issue is not the tool these idiots use, it’s that they exist at all.  The root cause is the moral decay in our society.   
 

What the founders would have really cringed at is the method we deal with criminals in this country - we may as well be incentivizing them.   Cashless bail, early release, deciding to prosecute, etc.  Look at the number of laws, warnings / red flags that were missed along the way.  The issue is not “more laws”.  

Still searching for multi shot musket….OH! Found some 6 shot contraption mounted on a tripod! The AR15, available today, seems far more portable, reliable, and deadly.

Seriously…to your point of “more laws”…why is the United States the only industrialized country with this problem?

[tomcat 569]

7 minutes ago, autigeremt said:

WE HAVE GUN CONTROL! Even in situations where the GOVERNMENT has RED FLAG laws in place the perp was STILL ALLOWED to purchase a firearm because GOVERNEMNT FAILED THE PEOPLE! THEY ARE INCOMPOTENT! 

 

I'm sorry but this isn't a gun problem. IT'S A PEOPLE PROBLEM. Pass all the laws you want. Come get my home protection....it won't change a thing. 

Yep….and all that thinking and praying is making a huge difference in resolving the problem. Can no longer sit on our hands clinging to dogma.

[GoAU 1,600]

20 minutes ago, tomcat said:

Still searching for multi shot musket….OH! Found some 6 shot contraption mounted on a tripod! The AR15, available today, seems far more portable, reliable, and deadly.

Seriously…to your point of “more laws”…why is the United States the only industrialized country with this problem?

Sure it is - quit being silly.  Freedom of speech is still a right and the internet didn’t exist when the Constitution was written.  
 

The CDC estimates that there are 500k - 3M uses of firearms defensively in this country each year.  To strip all of those citizens of their RIGHT to defend themselves would be a disaster and completely immoral.   

If you have a robbery at your home in progress and the Police or SWAT teams show up, they aren’t using double barreled shotguns and revolvers to address the situation and defend themselves, why should a citizen?   
 

We have TONS of laws in the book we either aren’t enforcing or refusing to prosecute,  banning more things only negatively impacts the law abiding citizens.  
 

Finally, the US is not the only country with the “problem” of mass homicides, or even shootings.  To throw away your rights for perceived “safety” can be your choice, but shouldn’t be forced on everyone.  

[GoAU 1,600]

3 hours ago, DKW 86 said:

1) We need far more robust gun control laws.  Background checks etc.

2) We need to DRAMAMTICALLY change the mental health laws in this nation. 
Seriously, we may have 5% of the population that are clinically insane at the moment.

3) Dont immediately fall for the "spoon made me fat logic" here. Last night there were 300M+ Guns in the US. Last nite 300M of them did absolutely nothing wrong. 

4) Limiting rights of those who are not doing any wrong MUST be counter-weighed with effective action that is actually taking action on those with guns that do mean to use them to kill and commit crimes. Harsher sentences for gun crimes, more undercover cops, very aggressive gun buybacks, anything! (I have zero confidence that any of this will actually happen.)

Dont do it the American Political Way: Write a bunch of laws for the already law-abiding citizens and then REFUSE to address the ones actually doing the crimes. 

Why are we not limiting these guns from getting into the hands of crazies?
Why are we not limiting these guns with larger magazines?
Why are we not testing these people before they can buy?
The main people killing folks with guns are gangbangers. They are using illegal guns and will always use illegal guns. last week in Chicago:
Chicago shootings: 33 shot, 5 fatally, in weekend violence, CPD says Did you hear about that on the news? Happens every weekend. No one gives a damn about it.

Try as you might, you wont find anyone in American Media criticizing this. NO ONE. It doesnt fit the narrative and they will never adapt to better ways of looking at it. 

 

I can certainly get behind some of this, but not all.   Lock up the gang bangers, stop including suicides into the gun states and this problem reduces by several orders or magnitude.   
 

Background checks currently exist.  If you are advocating for checks on person to person transfers (not a dealer) it would be impossible to implement that without a registry, which we should all strongly oppose.  
 

Magazine bans are a myth, and would do very little to nothing to “fix” a problem.  A magazine change takes less than 1-2 seconds.  And wherever you draw the line will keep getting eroded - 100 becomes 30,  becomes 20, then 10 or 5.  It will never end until it is 0.  
 

Completely agree with much stricter sentences for all crimes.   Stop letting criminals destroy society.  
 

Regarding testing before gun ownership - can we also make people take politicanscience, civics and economics tests before voting?   Having to pass a test before exercising a right is rough.  I think forearm owners SHOULD receive training, but getting the government involved to mandate it is more slippery slop   

 

[CoffeeTiger 5,101]

36 minutes ago, GoAU said:

Finally, the US is not the only country with the “problem” of mass homicides, or even shootings.  To throw away your rights for perceived “safety” can be your choice, but shouldn’t be forced on everyone.  

We're the only first world, modern nation with this problem. 

The United States is closer to Iraq than we are to Norway in the per capita rate of gun deaths in our country. The only countries that are equal or more dangerous than America are 3rd world developing countries and failed states with no or limited governments and roaming bands of gangs controlling the country. 

To anyone who says "Americas gun culture" isn't part of the problem is just being intellectually dishonest because statistics and reality shows that countries with modern, educated societies that have strict gun regulations universally have less or near non existent gun deaths and gun crimes. 

Kids in Europe don't have to go to schools built like prisons with metal detectors, bullet proof backpacks, armed police and guards everywhere and shooter drills every month. That's not how the real world is required to operate...that's not an inevitability...that's a problem unique to America and it's unique to America because of our lax gun culture and our near nonexistent mental health system that relies on private enterprise driven by profit. 

--------------------------------------------------------------

Not related to your post, but I'll also throw in that the answer isn't more religion, more prayers, and more Jesus, which is another very popular opinion from the Right on how to fix the killings.  No, that's not reality either. 

America is one of the most Christianized countries on earth and we're also one of the most deadly for school children. Texas is one of the most Conservative, Christian States in a mostly conservative Christian nation. Japan in 1% Christian. over 60% of Japanese classify themselves as non-religious. The Entire nation of Japan has on average 10 guns deaths a year. School shootings are non-existent.  

 

We have real world data that shows that modern nations without widespread gun rights do not have a school shooting problem. That's a fact. less guns = less gun deaths and less shootings. Real world data shows that Christianity and religion does not stop or prevent gun deaths. Christian nations will have a shooting problem when given free access to guns. Irreligious, non-Christian nations will NOT have a shooting problem when they do not grant free access to guns for their populations. 

 

I'm not saying eliminate the 2nd Amendment...that would be impossible at this point.  But we have to have stricter limits on who can own one and increase the responsibilities and liability that comes with gun ownership. 

 

Yes, responsible, innocent,  non-violent gun owners will have to pay a price and will have to be inconvenienced. There's no way around that, but the problem in America isn't going to be solves until as a nation we decide we're willing to give up some of our freedom, make it harder and more costly to own firearms, and to make personal sacrifices to try and save the lives of our Children and the people in our society. 

Until we as a nation start truly valuing lives above our very laxly interpreted 2nd amendment freedoms then this problem might never be solved. 

[CoffeeTiger 5,101]

And to everyone saying mental healthcare is the issue. 

 

Would you be in favor of new government funded programs to guarantee easily accessible mental healthcare access even to those who cant's afford it and don't have insurance? Mental healthcare that's funded by taxes and government programs? Might increase taxes. 

Private free market solutions wont work. There isn't money to be made in providing expensive mental health services to the dirt poor and people who aren't capable of working. Giving an incentive to make profit over an incentive to provide a service isn't how mental healthcare is supposed to work and it isn't how it effectively works. 

 

Republicans say it's not guns, it's mental health. But is there realistically a mental healthcare solution the Republicans would ever accept or vote for? I'm not sure. 

[AUDynasty 585]

1 hour ago, autigeremt said:

WE HAVE GUN CONTROL! Even in situations where the GOVERNMENT has RED FLAG laws in place the perp was STILL ALLOWED to purchase a firearm because GOVERNEMNT FAILED THE PEOPLE! THEY ARE INCOMPOTENT! 

 

I'm sorry but this isn't a gun problem. IT'S A PEOPLE PROBLEM. Pass all the laws you want. Come get my home protection....it won't change a thing. 

So, are we resigned to accepting a ritual sacrifice by lottery with guns? And to tell these grieving parents that it's just a cost of living in America? Kids will continue to die, with inaction? Sharing these tweets or messages of "Thoughts and prayers"?

There is a bill -- H.R. 8 -- that would require an universal background check for every gun sale. Are you in favor of that? And what about legislation on supporting and funding mental health issues? 

The point is that we cannot continue to live like this. This year, so far, has witnessed more kids killed in schools than cops have been killed in the line of duty. Let that sink in.  

Ridiculous.

Edited May 25, 2022 by AUDynasty

[autigeremt 6,599]

21 minutes ago, AUDynasty said:

So, are we resigned to accepting a ritual sacrifice by lottery with guns? And to tell these grieving parents that it's just a cost of living in America? Kids will continue to die, with inaction? Sharing these tweets or messages of "Thoughts and prayers"?

There is a bill -- H.R. 8 -- that would require an universal background check for every gun sale. Are you in favor of that? And what about legislation on supporting and funding mental health issues? 

The point is that we cannot continue to live like this. This year, so far, has witnessed more kids killed in schools than cops have been killed in the line of duty. Let that sink in.  

Ridiculous.

No we should be “resigned” to attacking the root cause of the problem and not a symptom. Once again the left is lazy as hell and the right is beholden. It’s not Gun Control we should be after it’s people control. 
 

pass your laws…..government has proven it can’t control that either 

Edited May 25, 2022 by autigeremt

[autigeremt 6,599]

9 hours ago, AU9377 said:

An 18 year old kid should not be able to walk in a gun shop leave with 2 of these. 

There is absolutely no chance that the men who wrote the constitution and included the 2nd Amendment contemplated this country being the kind of place where this happens over and over and over and over and over and over again.

You’re right. Government has a great track record at keeping these out of the wrong hands. But we can sure as hell send that kid off to die in battle with one of these so you can feel better.